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 Topic: BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque

 (Read 7319 times)
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #30 - March 17, 2014, 01:30 AM

    Bogart,

    Thanks for the explanation. While the Matthew quote alone is still enough to throw most Christians I've known into confusion when the particular subject of dropping the OT comes up, it's good to know that that justification exists. It's crazy how complicated these religions can get!
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #31 - March 17, 2014, 09:38 PM

    let's not quote or link to Breitbart for any news story in the future. It's one of the worst places you could go to get 'news' which is actually just far-right-wing homophobic, xenophobic, bigoted propaganda.


    Point taken - I hadn't actually looked at the site beyond the 'Free Speech' article.
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #32 - March 18, 2014, 08:26 PM

    It's the Beeb.


    It's religion.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #33 - March 18, 2014, 08:31 PM

    ^ It’s mostly in ahadith, though there’s the story of Lot. BUT if you read it as the qur’anic text only, then Lot himself doesn’t like gays. It says nothing about allah disapproving of them. The only reason allah sends that calamity is because the people of the town beat Lot up for being such a twatknacker. He appeals to god and they get wiped out as a result.


    "twatknacker"??     Cheesy

    May I borrow this term and keep it for special occasions, ie. weddings funerals, bar mitzvahs etc?


    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #34 - March 18, 2014, 08:55 PM

    Jesus only preached to the Jews so the Law still applies. So in this context the verse is valid. The OT itself, and old covenant, was only for the Israelites. At this time only being a Jew would get your into heaven. Every other nation or people were either impure or fallen this is laid out in the 5 Books of Moses. This is also part of what disqualifies Mo as being a Prophet but that is another discussion. The Fall from Grace, Adam & Eve, the Tower of Babel, the polytheists, idolaters, etc, are examples. In Matthew 15:22-24 Jesus plainly says he is here for Israeli, the people of Jacob, not the Gentiles. He even orders the 12 apostles not to preach to them, do not even go to their communities. So the Law is upheld for those it was intended for, Israeli. After Jesus' death Paul has his vision from Jesus in which he is ordered to preach the Word to the Gentiles. Paul is not one of the 12 apostles so one could argue that Matthew 15:22-24 only applies to the 12 but not Paul. So Paul was the one to spread the Word to the Gentiles. Now as Paul spread the Word in hellenized areas north of Israeli proper he ran into this very issue. Does the old covenant apply to non-Jews. The diet, circumcision, etc. This is how the conflict between old vs new started. Paul compromised the strict application of all Law on the Gentiles. The Moral Law stands. The Judaical Law can be or not be applied, nothing is lost or gained by either. The Ceremonial Law shifted from strict Temple functionaries to God and Heaven itself. The need a temple or altar was deemed to be material thus was not a priority is how one follows God. In fact directly following God was seen as superior than any use of a religious object be it a temple, altar, etc. The Council of Jerusalem was created to resolve this conflict between these two views. The result being Gentiles are not require to follow the Law while Christian-Jews were required. The view was a Gentile did not need to follow the other 2 Laws if it compromised their faith or cause people not to accept the Word and become Christian. Of course these rules are entirely based on if one accepts Divine Inspiration; Paul's work, Revelation, Peter's work, etc. "DI" is required for Christianity just as much as the hadith or the memorization traditions are for Islam.

    Strictly follow the apologists reasoning for these issues not my own views.





    Tanakh is not only for Jews, not even according to Jews. Obviously Christians wouldn't say that Bible isn't universal but it's not what jews say either. There are movements that follow only the Tanakh (so not christians) but remain gentiles and these movements are often very respected by the Jews too. For more information you could for example read about seven laws of Noah which are universal rules according to many Jews regardless of one's religion.

    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #35 - March 18, 2014, 09:18 PM

    I used to buy my knitting yarn from a yarn store where the shop owners are huge Christians, with Christianity memorabilia sprinkled all around the store. For those of you who are not knitters (all of you?) most of the yarns at shops nowadays are mixed animal fibers. They're going to have a loooot to explain during the second coming.  Grin


    Second coming?

    Was there a first?

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #36 - March 18, 2014, 09:23 PM

    Jesus only preached to the Jews so the Law still applies. So in this context the verse is valid. The OT itself, and old covenant, was only for the Israelites. At this time only being a Jew would get your into heaven. Every other nation or people were either impure or fallen this is laid out in the 5 Books of Moses. This is also part of what disqualifies Mo as being a Prophet but that is another discussion. The Fall from Grace, Adam & Eve, the Tower of Babel, the polytheists, idolaters, etc, are examples. In Matthew 15:22-24 Jesus plainly says he is here for Israeli, the people of Jacob, not the Gentiles. He even orders the 12 apostles not to preach to them, do not even go to their communities. So the Law is upheld for those it was intended for, Israeli. After Jesus' death Paul has his vision from Jesus in which he is ordered to preach the Word to the Gentiles. Paul is not one of the 12 apostles so one could argue that Matthew 15:22-24 only applies to the 12 but not Paul. So Paul was the one to spread the Word to the Gentiles. Now as Paul spread the Word in hellenized areas north of Israeli proper he ran into this very issue. Does the old covenant apply to non-Jews. The diet, circumcision, etc. This is how the conflict between old vs new started. Paul compromised the strict application of all Law on the Gentiles. The Moral Law stands. The Judaical Law can be or not be applied, nothing is lost or gained by either. The Ceremonial Law shifted from strict Temple functionaries to God and Heaven itself. The need a temple or altar was deemed to be material thus was not a priority is how one follows God. In fact directly following God was seen as superior than any use of a religious object be it a temple, altar, etc. The Council of Jerusalem was created to resolve this conflict between these two views. The result being Gentiles are not require to follow the Law while Christian-Jews were required. The view was a Gentile did not need to follow the other 2 Laws if it compromised their faith or cause people not to accept the Word and become Christian. Of course these rules are entirely based on if one accepts Divine Inspiration; Paul's work, Revelation, Peter's work, etc. "DI" is required for Christianity just as much as the hadith or the memorization traditions are for Islam.

    Strictly follow the apologists reasoning for these issues not my own views.





    So Paul overruled god and JC?

    Sounds like the Jews got the shitty end of the stick.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #37 - March 18, 2014, 09:26 PM

    Bogart,

    Thanks for the explanation. While the Matthew quote alone is still enough to throw most Christians I've known into confusion when the particular subject of dropping the OT comes up, it's good to know that that justification exists. It's crazy how complicated these religions can get!


    Surely if Xtians drop the OT that causes them a whole load more theological  problems: No Ten (613?) Commandments, no Original Sin, therefore no need for JC to be crucified and No Prophecies.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #38 - March 18, 2014, 09:27 PM

    Second coming?

    Was there a first?


    Mmmaybe.  Undecided
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #39 - March 18, 2014, 09:37 PM

    Surely if Xtians drop the OT that causes them a whole load more theological  problems: No Ten (613?) Commandments, no Original Sin, therefore no need for JC to be crucified and No Prophecies.

     whistling2

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #40 - March 18, 2014, 10:03 PM

    "twatknacker"??     Cheesy

    May I borrow this term and keep it for special occasions, ie. weddings funerals, bar mitzvahs etc?



    Go right ahead. I’ll throw a wankpellet in for free too.
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #41 - March 19, 2014, 11:36 PM

     Cheesy

     Thanks so much Kodanshi, Ok now you are spoiling me. I feel like I owe you.

    Will a klag-dangler do?




    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #42 - March 19, 2014, 11:40 PM

    Dangler do nicely dance Grin
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #43 - March 20, 2014, 01:37 AM

    you might not think so but sending a complaint to the BBC means they have to respond, would be interesting to at least hear their sad excuses.
    I will do it now ,but would be helpful if others on here did the ame

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #44 - March 28, 2014, 06:03 PM

    So this debate finally went ahead and can be watched on iplayer if you're in the UK (until Tuesday - skip to 32 min 40 sec):

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03z1zv3/free-speech-series-3-episode-2
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #45 - March 28, 2014, 06:37 PM

    Surely if Xtians drop the OT that causes them a whole load more theological  problems: No Ten (613?) Commandments, no Original Sin, therefore no need for JC to be crucified and No Prophecies.


    Xians drop parts of the OT which contradict their current social norms. Xians hold on to Paulism first and foremost as he provides the grounds for dismissing what they do not agree with. This is the key concept of  Paulism, the faith conforms to your standards rather than requiring you to conform to the faith's standards. Paul made the case for cherry pickers of faith. They can hold core concepts which are required to follow Paulism, the rest goes into the trash bin only to be picked through when someone doesn't like pork, homosexuals, women, etc.

    It is similar to the moral relativism of western Muslims. Mo is the prime example for all of mankind but say his marriage to Aisha can only be judged in the context of time, place and culture. If you point out the logical conclusion of this moral relativism one can dismiss Islam as only for Arabia in the 7th century. X verse in Hadiths is valid but Y verse is not, etc. Its a game of of choose your own religion similar to children's books based on the idea of "choose your own adventure"
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #46 - March 29, 2014, 07:26 AM

     Cheesy I love how you word it.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #47 - March 29, 2014, 07:37 AM

    Bloody good description.  Afro

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #48 - April 06, 2014, 05:50 PM

    Xians drop parts of the OT which contradict their current social norms. Xians hold on to Paulism first and foremost as he provides the grounds for dismissing what they do not agree with. This is the key concept of  Paulism, the faith conforms to your standards rather than requiring you to conform to the faith's standards. Paul made the case for cherry pickers of faith. They can hold core concepts which are required to follow Paulism, the rest goes into the trash bin only to be picked through when someone doesn't like pork, homosexuals, women, etc.

    It is similar to the moral relativism of western Muslims. Mo is the prime example for all of mankind but say his marriage to Aisha can only be judged in the context of time, place and culture. If you point out the logical conclusion of this moral relativism one can dismiss Islam as only for Arabia in the 7th century. X verse in Hadiths is valid but Y verse is not, etc. Its a game of of choose your own religion similar to children's books based on the idea of "choose your own adventure"


    That is exactly was I was thinking, but just better put into words than I could have done. Thank you Bogart.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • BBC 'Free Speech' show censors gay muslim after 'concerns' from mosque
     Reply #49 - April 30, 2014, 05:20 PM

    Index on censorship: Media must end its love affair with religious censors
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »