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Theme Changer

 Topic: Forgive my ignorance

 (Read 12664 times)
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  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #90 - March 25, 2014, 10:30 PM

    Quote
    A second brain in the heart is now much more than a hypothesis. Prominent medical expert like Doctor Maurice Renard and others discovered that that recipients of heart transplants are inheriting donors' memories and consequently report huge changes in their tastes, their personality, and, most extraordinarily, in their emotional memories.

    Oh FFS. Maurice Renard was an early 20th century science fiction author.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Renard

    Quote
    Maurice Renard was born in Châlons-en-Champagne.

    He was the author of the archetypal mad scientist novel Le Docteur Lerne - Sous-Dieu [Dr. Lerne - Undergod] (1908), which he dedicated to H. G. Wells. In it, a Doctor Moreau-like mad scientist performs organ transplants not between men and animals, but also between plants and even machines.


    Quote
    The heart’s nervous system contains around 40,000 neurons called sensory neurites that communicate with the brain.

    So what? 40,000 neurons is nothing, and of course the nervous system is connected to the brain. WTF else would it be connected to? Fucking wi-fi?
     idiot2

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #91 - March 25, 2014, 10:33 PM

    Lmao!  Cheesy
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #92 - March 25, 2014, 10:35 PM

     grin12 Ya gotta facepalm sometimes.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #93 - March 25, 2014, 10:35 PM

    "Prominent medical expert like Doctor Maurice Renard"
     
    ..................

    Hello lua ., just curious who aid that and where did you get that statement??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #94 - March 25, 2014, 10:37 PM

    grin12 Ya gotta facepalm sometimes.


    Nah.

    Hello lua ., just curious who aid that and where did you get that statement??

       here

    http://hubpages.com/hub/your-second-brain-is-in-your-heart
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #95 - March 25, 2014, 10:44 PM

    Anyway, for those who might be interested, here's a brief rundown of the weird little worms that I like to work with that are somewhat related to this subject:

    They're called planaria, and they're interesting and scientifically relevant in a whole bunch of ways, but particularly promising for cell regeneration or to observe cell migration. Why? Because when you chop one of them in half, the head side grows a new tail and the tail side grows a new head. This can be repeated quite a lot to reproduce the planaria, and they regenerate at a pretty good speed. Also, they're technically immortal: if you feed them and keep them happy, they tend not to "age."

    Anyway, there's a point to this:

    A while back, some scientist did an experiment with the planaria where he would flash a light on them and then zap them with electricity. This was done over and over, until the planaria seemed to believe that the flash of light was connected to the electricity. Soon, he only needed to flash the light to get a clear reaction from a planarian that he conditioned in this way.

    Now, according to him, if he took the planaria that had learned to fear the light and chopped it in half, the new planaria that resulted from the regeneration on the tail-end would also react to the light, as though it retained the memories of the intact organism. If my memory serves correctly, he reported that this happened even when he chopped them up into smaller planaria.

    Here is where he got extra crazy about it: he took brand new planaria that had not been trained by the light trick, ground the conditioned planaria up into tiny little bits, and then fed them to the new planaria. He then reported that the planaria that had eaten the pieces of the conditioned planaria suddenly began to react to light as though they had been conditioned, as well.
     
    Now, obviously, if this were all completely true, it would be a huge leap in our understanding of how memories work. However, many of his peers chalked this up to observation bias and other criticisms, and his experiments have been largely ignored. Some scientists wisely pointed out that planaria don't really like light being shined in their faces anyway, so it is not a well-controlled experiment.

    There's a man in our labs who has reworked his experiment in order to get around that "light" problem and hopefully around the rest of the criticisms. I'm not going to tell the whole internet his precise method, because that'd be awful of me, but as far as I can tell, it is solid. I think he is somewhere in the final stages of his experiment, so it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

    But, for my money, it was a fun experiment and an interesting thought that probably will prove of little relevance to our understanding of memories. But I could be wrong.

    Point is, this idea that suki is talking about isn't entirely unheard of (as in it isn't like this is the first time someone tried to say that), but to say it's likely or demonstrated is silly, and definitely the way that it is presented in the article and in the summary of it is more than absurd and clearly nonsense.

    Still, interesting stuff, I guess.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #96 - March 25, 2014, 10:47 PM

    Sounds interesting. Post a link to the paper once it is published. Afro

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #97 - March 25, 2014, 10:48 PM


    Hmm  may be  that fellow(who??) ...... that fellow does not know  there are more neurons in the Guts to Ass than he can find in the heart..



    now the problem is., sure we will have zillion websites filled with fools from Islam who will propagate that nonsense ..

    Intelligence: Is It In The Brain Or The Heart? by MOHAMED GHLIAN



    He puts that image writes rubbish for high school Muslim kids..

    The Brain and Heart Miracle in the Noble Quran Confirmed by Science

    Indeed ass holes have lot more neurons and  lot more free time  to waste on researching  that Quran science


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #98 - March 25, 2014, 10:49 PM

    Then of course there's the well known theory that mens' brains are in their dicks.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #99 - March 25, 2014, 10:50 PM

    Anyway, for those who might be interested, here's a brief rundown of the weird little worms that I like to work with that are somewhat related to this subject:

    They're called planaria, and they're interesting and scientifically relevant in a whole bunch of ways, but particularly promising for cell regeneration or to observe cell migration. Why? Because when you chop one of them in half, the head side grows a new tail and the tail side grows a new head. This can be repeated quite a lot to reproduce the planaria, and they regenerate at a pretty good speed. Also, they're technically immortal: if you feed them and keep them happy, they tend not to "age."

    Anyway, there's a point to this:

    A while back, some scientist did an experiment with the planaria where he would flash a light on them and then zap them with electricity. This was done over and over, until the planaria seemed to believe that the flash of light was connected to the electricity. Soon, he only needed to flash the light to get a clear reaction from a planarian that he conditioned in this way.

    Now, according to him, if he took the planaria that had learned to fear the light and chopped it in half, the new planaria that resulted from the regeneration on the tail-end would also react to the light, as though it retained the memories of the intact organism. If my memory serves correctly, he reported that this happened even when he chopped them up into smaller planaria.

    Here is where he got extra crazy about it: he took brand new planaria that had not been trained by the light trick, ground the conditioned planaria up into tiny little bits, and then fed them to the new planaria. He then reported that the planaria that had eaten the pieces of the conditioned planaria suddenly began to react to light as though they had been conditioned, as well.
     
    Now, obviously, if this were all completely true, it would be a huge leap in our understanding of how memories work. However, many of his peers chalked this up to observation bias and other criticisms, and his experiments have been largely ignored. Some scientists wisely pointed out that planaria don't really like light being shined in their faces anyway, so it is not a well-controlled experiment.

    There's a man in our labs who has reworked his experiment in order to get around that "light" problem and hopefully around the rest of the criticisms. I'm not going to tell the whole internet his precise method, because that'd be awful of me, but as far as I can tell, it is solid. I think he is somewhere in the final stages of his experiment, so it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

    But, for my money, it was a fun experiment and an interesting thought that probably will prove of little relevance to our understanding of memories. But I could be wrong.

    Point is, this idea that suki is talking about isn't entirely unheard of (as in it isn't like this is the first time someone tried to say that), but to say it's likely or demonstrated is silly, and definitely the way that it is presented in the article and in the summary of it is more than absurd and clearly nonsense.

    Still, interesting stuff, I guess.

    That's intetesting.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #100 - March 25, 2014, 10:52 PM

    Sounds interesting. Post a link to the paper once it is published. Afro


    I'll have to! Even if it turns out to be nothing, it'll be a cool thing for him to finally debunk.

    Also, I thought so, too, inception. They're weird little monsters, that much is certain...
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #101 - March 25, 2014, 10:55 PM

    Point is, this idea that suki is talking about isn't entirely unheard of (as in it isn't like this is the first time someone tried to say that), but to say it's likely or demonstrated is silly, and definitely the way that it is presented in the article and in the summary of it is more than absurd and clearly nonsense.

    To be clear, Suki's claim was that it is the heart that computes our experiences and the brain is just a memory storehouse, which is obviously not true.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #102 - March 25, 2014, 11:00 PM

    hey sorry i didnt provide any links i was watching hunger games lol..   i dont really have any credible sources, im not a scientist or anything, its just something i read about.. I keep forgetting that most of you here are scientists or science students and want proof and links lol.. Im pretty vague and random and annoying  i know Smiley..   perhaps animals use this energy field more effectivley than we do, as they seems to have amazing senses..  

    another random thought, i havent spoken to athiests before, i was wanting to find dawkings discussion forum if he had one but i guess most of you are athiest here... How would you explain telepathy or another one how would you define love, do you beleive love is an actual force or energy or a creation of our mind..

    Xxx
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #103 - March 25, 2014, 11:04 PM

    hey sorry ..................

    Xxx

    No..no..nooooo  no sorry.,  suki  you are doing good..  keep it up.,

    don't worry about osmanthus., that guy leaves in Australian desert along with Kangaroos and heckles people around.,  .. He knows nothing about this world..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #104 - March 25, 2014, 11:08 PM

    Quote
    How would you explain telepathy or another one how would you define love, do you beleive love is an actual force or energy or a creation of our mind..

    Experiment:

    1/ Take one human.
    2/ Remove mind.
    3/ Estimate remaining capacity for love.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #105 - March 25, 2014, 11:08 PM

    To be clear, Suki's claim was that it is the heart that computes our experiences and the brain is just a memory storehouse, which is obviously not true.


    I get that, but by then I was thinking a step further about memories being some sort of physical properties communicated by and stored in cells, so my mind went off a little...But yes, that part is total nonsense.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #106 - March 25, 2014, 11:09 PM

    hey sorry i didnt provide any links i was watching hunger games lol..   i dont really have any credible sources, im not a scientist or anything, its just something i read about.. I keep forgetting that most of you here are scientists or science students and want proof and links lol.. Im pretty vague and random and annoying  i know Smiley..   perhaps animals use this energy field more effectivley than we do, as they seems to have amazing senses..  

    another random thought, i havent spoken to athiests before, i was wanting to find dawkings discussion forum if he had one but i guess most of you are athiest here... How would you explain telepathy or another one how would you define love, do you beleive love is an actual force or energy or a creation of our mind..

    Xxx

    You can open a new thread.
  • Re: Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #107 - March 25, 2014, 11:10 PM

    i dont really have any credible sources, im not a scientist or anything, its just something i read about..

    So what happens to people with artificial hearts?

    How would you explain telepathy...

    Since when is telepathy an actual thing?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #108 - March 25, 2014, 11:12 PM

    Wait what? Telepathy? What is happening here?

    I don't find you annoying, Suki, but you seem to be looking for science news in places that are clearly jokes at best. There's no reason you need to believe things that are clearly wrong. If you want to learn about real interesting science, try something like Science Daily, which will be leaps and bounds more credible than the things you read, and far more interesting because they actually have basis in reality.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #109 - March 25, 2014, 11:22 PM

    I get that, but by then I was thinking a step further about memories being some sort of physical properties communicated by and stored in cells, so my mind went off a little...But yes, that part is total nonsense.

    But bear in mind that lower lifeforms have only basic functionality. So any form of memory they have is gonna be rudimentary. An animal like a snake, for example, might have pattern behaviour that appears like it is consistently remembered and put into practice by recall, but they completely forget you are there if you stay still long enough. The memory of lower lifeforms is not really the same kind of phenomenon as human memory.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #110 - March 25, 2014, 11:25 PM

    What about giraffes?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #111 - March 25, 2014, 11:25 PM

    But bear in mind that lower lifeforms have only basic functionality. So any form of memory they have is gonna be rudimentary. An animal like a snake, for example, might have pattern behaviour that appears like it is consistently remembered and put into practice by recall, but they completely forget you are there if you stay still long enough. The memory of lower lifeforms is not really the same kind of phenomenon as human memory.


    I hope it didn't sound like I was endorsing this concept! Just mentioning that I know it is something people have been playing around with, and someone in my lab is actually confirming or debunking one of the major experiments on the matter. If you were to ask me, all nonsense.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #112 - March 25, 2014, 11:29 PM

    What about giraffes?

    The giraffe is head and shoulders above the snake.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #113 - March 25, 2014, 11:31 PM

    Zackly. Higher life form innit.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #114 - March 25, 2014, 11:32 PM

    I hope it didn't sound like I was endorsing this concept!

    Noo, I'm just riffing.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #115 - March 25, 2014, 11:34 PM

    Zackly. Higher life form innit.

    Yeah, most of what they think goes over our heads.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #116 - March 25, 2014, 11:36 PM

    Aha, got it.

    I mean, my feelings on the matter don't much come from the size of the organism or the sophistication of their CNS (or heart or colon or whatever one guesses is responsible), but more because as someone with most of my background in the molecular part of biology, I can't imagine a single mechanism to let something like this occur in most any cell.

    Sometimes, information is passed down from one cell to the one that will replace it, but it is too limited in function to say anything like cell memory.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #117 - March 25, 2014, 11:54 PM

    Regarding the worms you were talking about, or the process they might be key in understanding, I guess I'd have to see the science before speculating.  'Remembering' how to react to light is something even plants do, but more complex association would be something I'd be sceptical about in worms.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #118 - March 25, 2014, 11:58 PM

    Right. I try not to say never with things like research. I just would be totally surprised to see something so complicated being expressed in a physical way in average body cells, if at all. Still, eager to see what happens with his experiment.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #119 - March 26, 2014, 12:58 AM

    The worm research is interesting given the decentralized nervous system in lifeforms such as worms which form some of the basic systems of our centralized nervous system. This experiment is similar to some research papers on conditioned stem cell growth of limbs and organs if only in conditioning application.
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