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Theme Changer

 Topic: Forgive my ignorance

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  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #120 - March 26, 2014, 01:02 AM

    ^ Weird, isn't it? The primary focus of most of us doing research with the planaria is definitely cell signaling and migration and regeneration, but there has always been what I daresay is a "pseudoscience" aura around them because of that early experiment...
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #121 - March 26, 2014, 01:13 AM

    The early experiment shouldn't have that aura. It seems to me that it followed the proper methods, the conclusion could be in error hence repeating the experiment is part of the method. At worst one could claim a bias in the conclusion but I do not see pseudoscience from what you have provided. Granted I have not read the paper so this is my speculation.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #122 - March 26, 2014, 01:22 AM

    Not necessarily from the man who performed the experiment, but I do believe that real strong implications about "cell memory" can, at the moment, be considered pseudoscience at best until there's real evidence for such a thing. However, this experiment, whether the conclusion  the author came to was valid or whether it was doomed to be false, has just kind of made the planaria (in my experience) something that people regard as the key that will unlock this cell memory thing.

    I hear about that more than I hear about the definite benefits to studying an organism with so many interesting properties (someone at another university in our state is also doing extremely interesting research on them regarding the disruption of electrical impulses during regeneration, which results in some weird bodily deformities), and don't worry guys I will see myself to the inside of my locker now.  Geek
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #123 - March 26, 2014, 03:08 AM

    .
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #124 - March 26, 2014, 11:26 PM

    Anyway, for those who might be interested, here's a brief rundown of the weird little worms that I like to work with that are somewhat related to this subject:

    They're called planaria, and they're interesting and scientifically relevant in a whole bunch of ways, but particularly promising for cell regeneration or to observe cell migration. Why? Because when you chop one of them in half, the head side grows a new tail and the tail side grows a new head. This can be repeated quite a lot to reproduce the planaria, and they regenerate at a pretty good speed. Also, they're technically immortal: if you feed them and keep them happy, they tend not to "age."

    Anyway, there's a point to this:

    A while back, some scientist did an experiment with the planaria where he would flash a light on them and then zap them with electricity. This was done over and over, until the planaria seemed to believe that the flash of light was connected to the electricity. Soon, he only needed to flash the light to get a clear reaction from a planarian that he conditioned in this way.

    Now, according to him, if he took the planaria that had learned to fear the light and chopped it in half, the new planaria that resulted from the regeneration on the tail-end would also react to the light, as though it retained the memories of the intact organism. If my memory serves correctly, he reported that this happened even when he chopped them up into smaller planaria.

    Here is where he got extra crazy about it: he took brand new planaria that had not been trained by the light trick, ground the conditioned planaria up into tiny little bits, and then fed them to the new planaria. He then reported that the planaria that had eaten the pieces of the conditioned planaria suddenly began to react to light as though they had been conditioned, as well.
     
    Now, obviously, if this were all completely true, it would be a huge leap in our understanding of how memories work. However, many of his peers chalked this up to observation bias and other criticisms, and his experiments have been largely ignored. Some scientists wisely pointed out that planaria don't really like light being shined in their faces anyway, so it is not a well-controlled experiment.

    There's a man in our labs who has reworked his experiment in order to get around that "light" problem and hopefully around the rest of the criticisms. I'm not going to tell the whole internet his precise method, because that'd be awful of me, but as far as I can tell, it is solid. I think he is somewhere in the final stages of his experiment, so it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

    But, for my money, it was a fun experiment and an interesting thought that probably will prove of little relevance to our understanding of memories. But I could be wrong.

    Point is, this idea that suki is talking about isn't entirely unheard of (as in it isn't like this is the first time someone tried to say that), but to say it's likely or demonstrated is silly, and definitely the way that it is presented in the article and in the summary of it is more than absurd and clearly nonsense.

    Still, interesting stuff, I guess.

    Could you use them as a blueprint and stop me aging? I'd like to not age and know I can regrow parts of my body should the need arise.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #125 - March 26, 2014, 11:32 PM

    Could someone? I believe so, someday. Could I? Not your best bet.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #126 - March 26, 2014, 11:34 PM

    Could you use them as a blueprint and stop me aging? I'd like to not age and know I can regrow parts of my body should the need arise.

    There are slight problems with using a planarian as a blueprint for a human.  parrot

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #127 - March 26, 2014, 11:42 PM

    ^ Well, we're focusing on something called telomeres in the planaria for the aging part of it, and the telomeres are a huge part of what we believe to be the biology of human aging.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #128 - March 26, 2014, 11:42 PM

    Forgive my ignorance

  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #129 - March 26, 2014, 11:44 PM

    Yeah I know about telomeres. It'd be fun seeing Quod try to type posts if he was built on a planarian bauplan though. grin12

    (although at least he could save on shoes and nail polish)

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #130 - March 26, 2014, 11:47 PM

    ^  Gotcha.  Cheesy
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #131 - March 27, 2014, 12:02 AM

    hey sorry i didnt provide any links i was watching hunger games lol..   i dont really have any credible sources, im not a scientist or anything, its just something i read about.. I keep forgetting that most of you here are scientists or science students and want proof and links lol.. Im pretty vague and random and annoying  i know Smiley..   perhaps animals use this energy field more effectivley than we do, as they seems to have amazing senses..  

    another random thought, i havent spoken to athiests before, i was wanting to find dawkings discussion forum if he had one but i guess most of you are athiest here... How would you explain telepathy or another one how would you define love, do you beleive love is an actual force or energy or a creation of our mind..

    Xxx

    It's cool, don't worry about it. You've actually paved the way for a rather interesting discussion about memory,  regeneration and immortality. Cheesy

    You've seriously never spoken to atheists before? You're from the UK right? We're not exactly rare here.

    I wouldn't explain telepathy because I don't think it exists, however there are certain things someone can experience to make them think so.

    My mum's an identical twin and when I was younger she used to think there was a sort of telepathy between her any my aunt (her twin sister). My aunt actually once told me that when I was born she was driving to the hospital, and driving in the car she felt It. Felt that my mother had given birth to me. She just somehow knew.

    Funnily enough I've experienced this somehow "knowing" with people, but it's always people I've known for a long time and am very close with. Sometimes I get a feeling they aren't doing so good, or this or that. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it isn't.

    I also remember when my grandmother died. I was asleep, and I was dreaming. In my dream I was talking to my grandma. We spoke about a few things, one of which was my granddad, saying how we both missed him. And in my dream she died. Next thing I know someone is shaking me trying to wake me up and my sister's voice is saying my name. I was in that state where after being suddenly woken from a deep sleep you can confuse dreams and reality. I said "Is grandma dead?" and as soon as I said it I was passed that point and knew it was just a dream. But my sister went quiet. She didn't say anything, just looked at me for a moment, and then said "Yes."

    I don't think any of this was telepathy. With my mum and aunt, they've sadly fell out and for a few years now haven't really had anything to do with each other. Now they aren't in contact this "ability" is gone. And it's what happen with me as well. These people that I know so well that I get feelings, a sense things aren't as they should be, if I loose contact with them for a while or forever these feeling cease. I don't think there's anything supernatural about it, it's just that when you know someone inside and out you pick up on things and recognise things on a subconscious level. That's why if the relationship ends you loose this ability, and you have to know them very well for a good time before you can do this.

    With me dreaming of my grandma's death, I don't think it was anything metahuman or supernatural, I think it was a coincidence. I've never had that happen before, I've never had that happen since. I've had dreams of loved ones, and sometimes I feel there's something wrong, and sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong. It's about intuition in my opinion.

    I actually remember my grandma tell me that when my granddad died, on the night of his funeral she told me she woke up in the middle of the night and my granddad was standing at the foot of her bed. She told me he said "Thank you" and then vanished. I asked her if she thought it was real, she said no. It was her mind playing tricks on her, a product of her grief.

    In short I've never really seen or heard anything to make me give credit to telepathy. What I know about the brain and how our thoughts work make me think it isn't real. We can hook ourselves up to computers that can read our minds, maybe show snatches of what we dream, but one human to another I don't think it can happen.

    As far as love goes, love is something very real. It's something hard to define. Love is created in our minds and at the same time is a force unlike any other. It's more than lust and different from obsession. It's fondness, tenderness, warmth, intimacy, attachment, endearment and so much more and words could never really do it justice. How do you know you love someone? You just know. I could sit here typing away for hours trying to define love, but I would fail. I can think about love logically, but I'll always see it through the eyes of a romantic poet.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #132 - March 27, 2014, 12:03 AM

    There are slight problems with using a planarian as a blueprint for a human.  parrot

    What about comparing it to the immortal jellyfish and then experimenting in trying to mimic it in humans and then grafting or rewriting or whatever the fuck you do onto my cells/DNA and giving me immortality?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #133 - March 27, 2014, 12:04 AM

    ^ Well, we're focusing on something called telomeres in the planaria for the aging part of it, and the telomeres are a huge part of what we believe to be the biology of human aging.

    What she said. Cheesy

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #134 - March 27, 2014, 12:10 AM

    What about comparing it to the immortal jellyfish and then experimenting in trying to mimic is in humans and then grafting or rewriting or whatever the fuck you do onto my cells/DNA and giving me immortality?

    Hmm what is cooking here??  ..Immortaity.. spliceing ..gene cloning..  telomerising ..

    go watch that movie  Splice


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdCtJIjLXBA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTRAmGFtoyk

    somewhere on internet you should be able to watch whole movie..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #135 - March 27, 2014, 12:11 AM

    What about comparing it to the immortal jellyfish and then experimenting in trying to mimic is in humans and then grafting or rewriting or whatever the fuck you do onto my cells/DNA and giving me immortality?


    Also, Quod, I can only work on one mad scientist experiment at a time, so you'll have to choose your favorite.  Grin
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #136 - March 27, 2014, 01:40 AM

    I can just imagine Lua up in a castle with lightning n shit and Quod strapped to the table.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #137 - March 27, 2014, 02:35 AM

    Also, Quod, I can only work on one mad scientist experiment at a time, so you'll have to choose your favorite.  Grin

    Immortality. After that we'll have all the time in the world for a woman who lactates whisky.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #138 - March 27, 2014, 02:56 AM

    I can just imagine Lua up in a castle with lightning n shit and Quod strapped to the table.

     So can I...Quod?  Wink

    Immortality. After that we'll have all the time in the world for a woman who lactates whisky.

    You are a wise man.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #139 - March 27, 2014, 02:59 AM

    At the very least I want dinner and a show before you strap me down and stick things in me. And yes, Quod is most wise.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #140 - March 27, 2014, 03:01 AM

    Don't worry, I'll give you a lovely evening.
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #141 - March 27, 2014, 06:51 AM

    It's cool, don't worry about it. You've actually paved the way for a rather interesting discussion about memory,  regeneration and immortality. Cheesy

    You've seriously never spoken to atheists before? You're from the UK right? We're not exactly rare here.

    I wouldn't explain telepathy because I don't think it exists, however there are certain things someone can experience to make them think so.

    My mum's an identical twin and when I was younger she used to think there was a sort of telepathy between her any my aunt (her twin sister). My aunt actually once told me that when I was born she was driving to the hospital, and driving in the car she felt It. Felt that my mother had given birth to me. She just somehow knew.

    Funnily enough I've experienced this somehow "knowing" with people, but it's always people I've known for a long time and am very close with. Sometimes I get a feeling they aren't doing so good, or this or that. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it isn't.

    I also remember when my grandmother died. I was asleep, and I was dreaming. In my dream I was talking to my grandma. We spoke about a few things, one of which was my granddad, saying how we both missed him. And in my dream she died. Next thing I know someone is shaking me trying to wake me up and my sister's voice is saying my name. I was in that state where after being suddenly woken from a deep sleep you can confuse dreams and reality. I said "Is grandma dead?" and as soon as I said it I was passed that point and knew it was just a dream. But my sister went quiet. She didn't say anything, just looked at me for a moment, and then said "Yes."

    I don't think any of this was telepathy. With my mum and aunt, they've sadly fell out and for a few years now haven't really had anything to do with each other. Now they aren't in contact this "ability" is gone. And it's what happen with me as well. These people that I know so well that I get feelings, a sense things aren't as they should be, if I loose contact with them for a while or forever these feeling cease. I don't think there's anything supernatural about it, it's just that when you know someone inside and out you pick up on things and recognise things on a subconscious level. That's why if the relationship ends you loose this ability, and you have to know them very well for a good time before you can do this.

    With me dreaming of my grandma's death, I don't think it was anything metahuman or supernatural, I think it was a coincidence. I've never had that happen before, I've never had that happen since. I've had dreams of loved ones, and sometimes I feel there's something wrong, and sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong. It's about intuition in my opinion.

    I actually remember my grandma tell me that when my granddad died, on the night of his funeral she told me she woke up in the middle of the night and my granddad was standing at the foot of her bed. She told me he said "Thank you" and then vanished. I asked her if she thought it was real, she said no. It was her mind playing tricks on her, a product of her grief.

    In short I've never really seen or heard anything to make me give credit to telepathy. What I know about the brain and how our thoughts work make me think it isn't real. We can hook ourselves up to computers that can read our minds, maybe show snatches of what we dream, but one human to another I don't think it can happen.

    As far as love goes, love is something very real. It's something hard to define. Love is created in our minds and at the same time is a force unlike any other. It's more than lust and different from obsession. It's fondness, tenderness, warmth, intimacy, attachment, endearment and so much more and words could never really do it justice. How do you know you love someone? You just know. I could sit here typing away for hours trying to define love, but I would fail. I can think about love logically, but I'll always see it through the eyes of a romantic poet.


    hi, well yeah being from the uk i speak to atheists every day Smiley but not about these issues, i been living in a tight islamic "ghetto" for like ever since teens..  yeah thats interesting what you said about dreams and telepathy.. Ive had these experiences too of my gdad dying and he did that night, i have dreamt about significant people in my life before meeting them, and places im going to..  i also have connections with certain people and know when they have either emailed or are about to call, i pick up my phone ready for it to ring a second later, dont know where it comes from but eveyone thinks im a bit weird for knowing lol, but i once joined this website where they practise these things and ive done experiments with those i connect with too, they ask me to write down the times that they are sending out a thought to me throughout the day..  i dont do it anymoe, lost interest...yep like you said, its not something supernatural, its some kind of higher consciousness, same like a pet dog lol knows its owner is on his way home, they are aware somehow..  not sure if anyone saw that vid clip "christian the lion" think its called, about an english guy who bought a baby cub in the uk with intent to release it back into the wild in kenya,  he managed to get the cub back into its natural environment and also created a bond with him, i think it was about ten years or so later this guy decided to go back to kenya and see if he could find the lion in the outbacks to see if he was doing ok, when he got there, the lion was waiting for him at his hotel, it knew he was coming and at what location.. Hows it done, amazing..     

    Love yep it certainly is hard to define, but what ever it is we seem to spend our entire life looking for it in any means Smiley  its energy, whether created by ourselves or given,  gives a bigger high than anything ever could, its awesome..


    X

     
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #142 - March 27, 2014, 07:05 AM

    Yup. Love is that. Afro

    It's interesting that you experimented with it. You might want to contact those who research these things specifically, people have been trying to prove it for decades, if not longer.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #143 - March 27, 2014, 07:07 AM

    Are you still living in an islamic ghetto now? Do you have to hide that you've left the faith?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #144 - March 27, 2014, 07:15 AM

    Quote
    i think it was about ten years or so later this guy decided to go back to kenya and see if he could find the lion in the outbacks to see if he was doing ok, when he got there, the lion was waiting for him at his hotel, it knew he was coming and at what location..

    I saw that film (the whole thing) years ago. I don't remember anything about the lion waiting at the hotel. IIRC, they went out into the bush where his territory was (the locals knew where he had been hanging out). After a while, the lion rocked up.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #145 - March 27, 2014, 07:24 AM




    Jee thanks Kodanshi  far away hug
     Cheesy

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #146 - March 27, 2014, 07:28 AM

    Are you still living in an islamic ghetto now? Do you have to hide that you've left the faith?


    QUod was this aimed at me??

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #147 - March 27, 2014, 10:09 AM

    Naw think it was me Confuse, i mentioned islamic ghetto land..  : )  no i left that life but i wouldnt ever admit to my old muslim friends that i left the faith, part of me feels a little uneasy incase some random crazy person may take action, it happens..  and i would never dream of telling my ex, even though he lives in some other country, dont know ehere lol, he goes crazy when he hears i dont pray, as if its any of his business...i just tell them that im a weak muslim lol who prays part time but they arent dumb, i had a lot of grief when i left and people were gossiping and calling me all kinds of names and such but i think secretly deep down theyre just envious that theyre not free but dont know it..

    Hey yes, Osthamus, you are correct, i made it sound like a five star hotel they went to, we could argue that the lion perhaps regulraly showed up at the unit to see if his owner turned up but apparently it hadnt been there for a year and turned up with its lion cubs the night before they arrived and waited on a rock for them to show up..

    With regards to the telepathy thing, i am a memeber of this website where they practise connecting but i havent done it for ages, ive tested it out with a few and tried remote viewing once, where we had to guess what this lady was hiding in her back yard, i got it right lol, it was a terracota statue of a fox covered by a blanket of snow but i got that part wrong i said a white sheet... actually for me it only worked with those that i had an emotional or romantic bond with, anyone else it didnt work..

    Xoo 
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #148 - March 27, 2014, 10:11 AM

    haha sorry suki didnt read your post

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Forgive my ignorance
     Reply #149 - March 27, 2014, 10:57 AM

    suki it's fucking horrible how controlling some muslims can be. I'm sorry you had to go through that. far away hug

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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