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 Topic: How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?

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  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #60 - March 31, 2014, 12:37 AM
    Lay off the mushrooms, mate. They're not doing you any good.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #61 - March 31, 2014, 05:09 AM
    I think it's about wearing what is appropriate at the right time and setting, like dressing casual or smart and modest out in public for work, shopping etc and for entertainment, clubs, parties etc, wearing what ever you please, sad thing is a lot of people these day get the latter mixed up lol and now wear their revealing party clothes and full party makeup 10 in heels just to go shopping. i had an aquaintance once who wore a bikini top every day to pick up her daughter from school ?  why lol she looked gross..  imagine if we went back a few decades where it was seen as appropriate to wear suit, tie and hat on the street, and women had to tie their hair up or wear it short, atleast we have more expression today..   and no i dont think we should ban burkas or hijab, there will be a small percentage of women who do enjoy wearing it and we cant take away their right to
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #62 - March 31, 2014, 05:24 AM
    65% of Brazilians think women provocatively dressed ask to be raped
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Re: How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #63 - March 31, 2014, 05:56 AM
    Quote from: Siunaa Maailmaa on March 30, 2014, 11:07 PM
    I don't know if it really means that but to me if you're dressing like a cheap hooker/gigolo you look like you don't respect yourself, just if you're using those hiphop clothes like that:
    (Clicky for piccy!) or if you're using some leather like that: (Clicky for piccy!).

    He's in a culture (I assume) where that's normal way of dressing and it's not way of looking bad there. That might be the freshest fashion in there and what not. If he's on the other hand some black guy in Bronx going to buy milk looking like that, then yes, I don't think he respects his physical being enough.


    I thin you answered your own question right there. If we always follow the current norms and values in society, the world would be a very different place. It seems as you think that culture, norms and values are static. They aren't, what you think is "appropriate" and "classy" now was not the case 50 years ago and will be very different I think in 50 years to come. When new fashion, trends and norms of dressing is introduced to society, very often they are first met with criticism. Just read about the bikini: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_bikini . A lot of people would have said exactly what you're saying back then when the bikini was (re)introduced to western culture. So when it comes to the hijab and niqab, it's the same case. A lot of Muslim women (both "real" Muslims and ex-Muslims) wear the hijab even though if they had the freedom to do otherwise they would take it off. Perhaps in order to dress like Nicki Minaj Smiley

    There are no arguments as to why a certain type of dress is better than other, and there will never be none except in regards to what kind of clothes are most appropriate depending on weather. I think most people would say that a pair of shorts or high heels are not "appropriate" during winter time with 20- degrees celcius. In some cultures men and women go around but naked, and they don't see that as anything to do with their self-respect.

    A piece of cloth is exactly that, it's a piece of cloth. The hijab in and of itself doesn't oppress anyone, that miniskirt and the sparkly bra doesn't make a woman into a "slut". It's the values and expectations behind the piece of cloth that matters. Nicki Minaj doesn't look like a slut because she wears revealing clothes. She looks like a slut because you think so because of the way she dresses. Get my point?
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #64 - March 31, 2014, 06:03 AM
    @Qse Not just Brazil that has a 'rape myth' culture unfortunately


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-369262/Women-blame-raped.html
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8515592.stm



  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #65 - March 31, 2014, 06:29 AM
     vomit banghead
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #66 - March 31, 2014, 07:30 AM
    There are no social norms in todays western culture only freedom of expression and there is no set fashion trend or genre anymore like there was in the 60's, 70's etc, i guess if folks dont like and are shocked at what they see then don't look Smiley 
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #67 - March 31, 2014, 07:34 AM
    Quote
    There are no social norms in todays western culture..

    ORLY? So I can go for a job interview dressed in nothing but dead kittens and I'll get the job?

    Question: how do you have "a culture" without social norms?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #68 - March 31, 2014, 07:45 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on March 31, 2014, 05:24 AM
    65% of Brazilians think women provocatively dressed ask to be raped

    Interesting that 67%* of the survey respondents were women too. And exactly what is ""clothing that shows off the body" anyway?

    The article's leading pic of a dancer from the Sambadrome caught my eye. She should be safe as houses, since she's not wearing any clothing at all. Defo should not be raped then. Logic 101.




    *(yes, I'm aware that doesn't mean that all who voted "should be raped" were women, so don't bother pointing that out)
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #69 - March 31, 2014, 07:52 AM
    Hmm, just thought the maths through a bit (pretty simple stuff).

    Roughly 2/3 of respondents were women, 1/3 men. Roughly 2/3 of respondents voted "should be raped". Even if all male respondents voted that way (some probably didn't) that still means that at least 50% of all female respondents voted "should be raped".

    That's fucking retarded.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #70 - March 31, 2014, 08:03 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 31, 2014, 07:34 AM
    ORLY? So I can go for a job interview dressed in nothing but dead kittens and I'll get the job?



    ..depends what job youre going for.. Taxidermist, then likely..   : )
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #71 - March 31, 2014, 08:07 AM
    Still wouldn't like your chances. Cheesy
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #72 - March 31, 2014, 08:14 AM
    Quote from: suki on March 31, 2014, 08:03 AM

    ..depends what job youre going for.. Taxidermist, then likely..   : )

     Cheesy
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #73 - March 31, 2014, 08:15 AM
    Quote from: Arolti on March 31, 2014, 06:03 AM
    @Qse Not just Brazil that has a 'rape myth' culture unfortunately

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-369262/Women-blame-raped.html
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8515592.stm

    Skipped the Daily Mail link, but took a look at the BBC one.

    Quote
    The study found that women were less forgiving of the victim than men.

    Of the women who believed some victims should take responsibility, 71% thought a person should accept responsibility when getting into bed with someone, compared with 57% of men.

     whistling2
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #74 - March 31, 2014, 08:25 AM
    Quote from: Cornflower on March 31, 2014, 05:56 AM
    I thin you answered your own question right there. If we always follow the current norms and values in society, the world would be a very different place. It seems as you think that culture, norms and values are static. They aren't, what you think is "appropriate" and "classy" now was not the case 50 years ago and will be very different I think in 50 years to come. When new fashion, trends and norms of dressing is introduced to society, very often they are first met with criticism. Just read about the bikini: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_bikini . A lot of people would have said exactly what you're saying back then when the bikini was (re)introduced to western culture. So when it comes to the hijab and niqab, it's the same case. A lot of Muslim women (both "real" Muslims and ex-Muslims) wear the hijab even though if they had the freedom to do otherwise they would take it off. Perhaps in order to dress like Nicki Minaj Smiley

    There are no arguments as to why a certain type of dress is better than other, and there will never be none except in regards to what kind of clothes are most appropriate depending on weather. I think most people would say that a pair of shorts or high heels are not "appropriate" during winter time with 20- degrees celcius. In some cultures men and women go around but naked, and they don't see that as anything to do with their self-respect.

    A piece of cloth is exactly that, it's a piece of cloth. The hijab in and of itself doesn't oppress anyone, that miniskirt and the sparkly bra doesn't make a woman into a "slut". It's the values and expectations behind the piece of cloth that matters. Nicki Minaj doesn't look like a slut because she wears revealing clothes. She looks like a slut because you think so because of the way she dresses. Get my point?


    But I already admitted I was wrong and that I have to grow up. What more do you want?

    Quote from: osmanthus on March 31, 2014, 12:37 AM
    Lay off the mushrooms, mate. They're not doing you any good.


    I think that is bit uncalled for. I know I made stupid comments prior to that but what's stupid with my last comment? I was wondering if you (plural) feel like burkha shouldn't be weared and mentioned license plate because one argument is that we cannot identify person fully covered.
    I would now like to ask another questions too from you (plural). If your daughter/son tried going to school naked, would you say that it's stupid and tell them not to or would you not think anything because being naked is natural? What if you visited your grandparents with your wife/husband and both of your grandparents were dressed in full leather body suit. Would you think "wtf" or wouldn't you think anything? What if you went to funerals and your cousin came in spiderman suit. How would you react?

    Osmanthus, I'm not on drugs because I ask these. I just want to know if people honestly claim that what people wear is irrelevant to them so I can know more.
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #75 - March 31, 2014, 08:26 AM
    Its getting hot in here.....  Wink
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #76 - March 31, 2014, 08:34 AM
    Quote from: Siunaa Maailmaa on March 31, 2014, 08:25 AM
    But I already admitted I was wrong and that I have to grow up. What more do you want?


    That was not what my post was about. You asked how we can determine which type of norms and values for clothing is best, or better, than any other. Why would a scarf be worse/better than a pair of jeans and a T-shirt. What I tried to convey was that the piece of cloth is not the issue, it's the values, ideas, norms, expectations that are behind the piece of cloth that matters. What does the piece of cloth say, and what does that say about the society and culture. If we don't like the message, then we have to change it. Unfortunately, the Muslim attire is inherently misogynistic and that can never be erased.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #77 - March 31, 2014, 08:41 AM
    Ok, ursäkta mig, I misunderstood.
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #78 - March 31, 2014, 08:42 AM
    ^I agree cornflower, a headscarf vs someone in jeans in t-shirt does not say a damn thing about the person under the clothes. The focus should not be on what we wear or how we express ourselves, during the cycle of life everyone goes through phases regarding their dressing and the reasons behind it. The focus should really be on the person we want to be somehow eventually down the road who we are and how we dress tie together, but life has phases, stages and growth. Also there is no right and wrong way to dress if you not hurting anyone and trying to be a good person. Modesty means different things to different people, in the end its all subjective and personal.
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #79 - March 31, 2014, 10:50 AM
    Quote from: Siunaa Maailmaa on March 31, 2014, 08:25 AM
    I think that is bit uncalled for. I know I made stupid comments prior to that but what's stupid with my last comment? I was wondering if you (plural) feel like burkha shouldn't be weared and mentioned license plate because one argument is that we cannot identify person fully covered.

    You suggest putting license plates on women who wear burqas, and you're asking me what's wrong with your idea? And you're serious?

    IMO, this is more than enough justification for suggesting that you may have an inordinate fondness for fungi of the psychedelic variety.

    What are you intending to do with these number plates? Rivet them onto the women's butts? Bolt them to their foreheads? In case you haven't noticed, people tend to get irritable if you try bolting things to their heads. It's not going to be one of the most well-received public policy initiatives in the history of social engineering.

    Maybe you're thinking they can just carry a license card instead. That wont work, unless you can check the person's face to make sure they aren't carrying someone else's ID. So, they have to expose their face anyway. This puts the burqa in the same category as things like helmets. There are some situations where it's just not sensible to allow people to wear them.


    Quote
    I would now like to ask another questions too from you (plural). If your daughter/son tried going to school naked, would you say that it's stupid and tell them not to or would you not think anything because being naked is natural?

    I'd tell them they wouldn't be allowed into school anyway, regardless of what I thought.


    Quote
    What if you visited your grandparents with your wife/husband and both of your grandparents were dressed in full leather body suit. Would you think "wtf" or wouldn't you think anything?

    Serious answer: I'd crack up laughing and think "Good on them".


    Quote
    What if you went to funerals and your cousin came in spiderman suit. How would you react?

    Depends whose funeral.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #80 - March 31, 2014, 10:57 AM
    If you have group of 5 females with burkhas and one does a crime, how do we identify her?
    I'm not only one who has said this. I've heard it often from many people.
    I hope nobody uses burkhas or niqabs but I feel that if you want to do it so much or keep some other kind of full mask that doesn't let you be identified the natural way, then you have to be ready to put a license plate on you. It's ridiculous to have a license plate but when you are so deep in religion that you  cannot even be legally identified, you need to know the consequences.

    I think two only solutions are either full ban or license plates and full ban in my eyes is against freedom of dressing. I change my view if legit reason given.

    Quote
    I'd tell them they wouldn't be allowed into school anyway, regardless of what I thought.

    But doesn't this come to the same basic question. Who are the schools to say that you're not allowed to be naked? Isn't that kinda judgmental and narrow minded as nudity is natural?
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #81 - March 31, 2014, 10:59 AM
    Ok, and? You do realise this sort of thing is why I'm saying they should not be worn in some situations?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #82 - March 31, 2014, 11:01 AM
    Siunaa, I think that suggestion is made to point out the difficulty with the burka and brought to an absurd conclusion to demonstrate that there's no good answer to maintain safety. I don't think the license plate suggestion is often treated as an actual viable option; it is intentionally ridiculous.
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #83 - March 31, 2014, 11:08 AM
    I see that it's a stupid solution but I'm also bothered that if someone wants to use niqab/burkha should they have right to it? But yeah, now when I think more I see that banning them seems to be only realistic solution.
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #84 - March 31, 2014, 11:12 AM
    ^I sometimes wonder how feasible it would be to have a cloaked woman be  "checked" in certain situations by a female worker, like before entering a bank or a school.
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #85 - March 31, 2014, 11:21 AM
    Ok, but why should banks, schools, shops and other businesses have to put on staff for that? It's not just banks and schools.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #86 - March 31, 2014, 11:23 AM
    Hey osmanthus, could you clear what you think about my question about nudity? Do you think schools are judgmental and narrow minded when they ban nudity of students?
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #87 - March 31, 2014, 11:25 AM
    No more than the culture they operate in.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #88 - March 31, 2014, 11:28 AM
    But that doesn't clear anything yet. Do you think our culture is narrow minded and judgmental in dress code?

    Quote from: osmanthus on March 31, 2014, 10:50 AM
    Depends whose funeral.


    So are you saying that in some funerals it's bad?
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #89 - March 31, 2014, 11:28 AM
    Well, at least where I live, some banks already have a guy just standing around the entrances for security, and schools definitely have a lot of security here. In some schools, even the kids get weapon checked, so in my state it wouldn't be that big of a change as far as I can see.

    But as for why, I wouldn't suggest making it mandatory for these establishments. I'd figure it would be more of a situation where the covered woman knows that Bank C across the road has someone to check her so she can go there with her burka on without trouble, but Bank A and B don't have that, therefore her options are to go to Bank C or bank without the burka.

    But I don't know, man. I'm trying to think of a situation where safety is maintained but the covered woman can still have at least some options besides stay home or take it off.  wacko
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