Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Gaza assault
by zeca
November 27, 2024, 07:13 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
November 24, 2024, 06:05 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
November 22, 2024, 02:51 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
November 21, 2024, 05:07 PM

New Britain
November 20, 2024, 05:41 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
November 20, 2024, 09:02 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Many questions and thoughts still trouble me

 (Read 2820 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     OP - April 12, 2014, 11:35 AM

    So I know that in time I MAY be able to accept a life without religious belief and it is probably way too early for to be comfortable with the idea of life without religion.

    Sometimes thoughts cross my mind, the what if question don't go away, sometimes I feel so certain of my disbelief and other times I feel like what if I'm wrong. The questions and doubts especially arise when I try to make up my own mind on morality issues, there is just so much to decide on, so many different issues and sometimes I find myself thinking can I decide these things for myself? Is it not better to have a religious framework when deciding my morals? I am not talking about things like alcohol, pork and irrelevant things but more on the issue of sexual morality, deciding on things like body piercings and plastic surgery (in general not for myself). When religion provides a basis for these things it somehow always provides a reason, like masturbating is not right because of the health risks, pre sex marriage is wrong because of the risks and society dishonor attached to it,  piercing are damaging the body god gave you, plastic surgery is unhealthy. But then I know all these reasons can be argued and I know that there are so many prohibitions that seem irrelevant or make no sense, like eyebrow shaping or the rulings on dogs, or stupid things like how to cut your hair that people take soooo seriously.

    Although I can acknowledge all of the above, I can see why the stability of a religious framework of right and wrong can be appealing. Deciding on your own moral code can be so daunting. Sometimes I feel like I might be loosing control by making my own choices (if that makes sense). Like for instance, in my own mind I don't find a real problem in premarital sex between two consenting adults and while I can respect that some people can have one night stands and enjoy it, that is not something I would do personally. I prefer even if it's premaritail I prefer a committed relationship (personal preference).  But by coming to this conclusion I feel like I'm loosing my morals (religious morals that are ingrained in me), spiraling out of control so to speak.

    Did anyone else have this problem when leaving a religion, the religious guilt that never leaves you. Does it ever leave you? How do you go about deciding what is right and wrong and being okay with your decisions?

    There are so many different opinions, thoughts and so on out there that make life soooo confusing.

    I have observed how some people when looking for religion, usually do so after a series of bad life decisions that led them to rock bottom, for them they needed a guide and something to lean on so they turned to religion. Which is not necessarily a bad thing if it helps them. I was just thinking today how do you explain the world around you without god, shit just happens and that's that?

    This morning I spoke to a friend of mine who told me a family member of hers passes away and left 5 children behind, his wife is in hospital with a lot of broken bones. It got me thinking, in these situations people like to cling to an idea of god, god is there for them, god will help them though, someone is looking out for them. Although completely ignoring the fact that god caused it all in the first place. My friend mentioned that the wife is in hospital and in so much of pain and trauma with 5 kida and has to sit in iddat. I was thinking WHAT THE FUCK!!! That makes me angry, doesn't the woman have enough to deal with, why is iddat been forced on her? How is this fair?

    Right now I find it hard to process things around me, I find it hard to process how and why things happen without god. I find it difficult to trust my own instincts and morals. I'm still dealing with the idea that desires are bad and need be suppressed , it's hard to see my family dwelve deeper and deeper into religion while I seem to be drifting in the opposite direction. I feel like i am betraying them, I feel like the black sheep, even though I keep up an act, which makes me feel like a hypocrite, the fact that I think this way makes me feel so damn guilty.

    It's hard to admit that I will probaly never be that good little indian girl that society expects me to be, but either I pretend forever to be something I'm not or eventually, one day in the future, I can finally just be me.

    Sorry for the long rant, just feeling so lost, alone and misplaced.

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     Reply #1 - April 12, 2014, 02:13 PM

    OK OP I do sometimes long for a God. I need someone who is omniscient, omnipotent and always available to be by my side. But then again He wasn't there for me. I don't know for sure whether He exists or not, but seeing that I needed some signs of comfort from Him when it felt like I was in a dark pit, which never came made me believe that He might not exist. There is a verse in the Quran where God says that the poor people shouldn't kill the children for fear of poverty, because God will provide for them. Tell me how many Zamzam wells do you see in Africa near the dead bodies of malnourished children?

    But some people do experience comfort in worshipping rituals. Some amals, manats, etc. do work. I dismiss them as coincidences or sometimes I believe that even if there is a God, He simply doesn't like me. I am also confused like you and should call myself an agnostic rather than an atheist. But if there is no solid proof of His existence then there is no question of being a theist or deist.
  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     Reply #2 - April 12, 2014, 03:12 PM

    It can be very comforting and reassuring to have a sky daddy to turn to when you are in trouble. If you have been raised with this belief, it almost becomes even more important because for you, that sky daddy was real. You did talk to him in your prayer. He did listen to you. At least in your mind. Experienced reality is reality, in someway.

    When I was still a closeted ex-Muslim, I caught myself starting to pray to god for some rather trivial matter but which was important for me. In the middle of the prayer I thought to myself, what am I doing? Intellectually, I don't even believe that there is anything that can hear me, or answer me. But emotionally, I still needed that.

    Muslims will often use this to "prove" that belief in god is natural to us, that god's existence is somehow a fact because it is part of our fitrah. It has nothing to do with that. Now, even in my most difficult life-crisis, I have no need whatsoever to call upon god. I deal with life as it is, and I have ridden myself with the insecurity that really is a huge part of why people have the need to believe in god in the first place.

    As for a religious framework to figure out what is right and wrong, I like to quote Richard Dawkins on this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29JEMasi3aw

    Religious morality is often absolute morality. I'd rather put the time and effort spent on figuring out what "god" wants in arriving at a morality that is reasoned, tried and well thought out instead of following religious rules set in stone. The so called "wisdom" behind this or that rule is often not the entire truth. Sexual morality is not just about "what is best for society", it is also about what is best for the men in power. It is about keeping certain members of the society out of power. You can figure out why something is bad or good without bringing god or religion into the picture. In the end, isn't it human beings who are analyzing "god's" scriptures and coming up with all these "reasons"?

    Besides, I really don't care for absolute extremes in anything. I'm not entirely OK with "unrestricted" sexuality in the sense that people have uncontrolled one-night stands with random people, unprotected sex, or pregnancies outside a relationship with several different men. It's because it can lead to problems and issues both for the individual and the society at large. But I won't legislate that pre-marital sex must now be prohibited. You can have as many sexual partners you want, as long as you don't engage in risky behavior (having protected sex, being sober, making sure that you're not in bed with some psycho). I'm not very fond of people spending fortunes on plastic surgeons, basically pumping plastic and silicon into their bodies because of some distorted beauty ideal. But I won't legislate against it, people must be free to chose what they want.

    Instead of restricting people's freedom and choices, it is better to spend that time, effort and money into making the world a better place. instilling healthy and sound values, making sure the gap between people in the world is minimized giving everyone a bearable standard of living. Look at what professor Hans Rosling says about this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sqnptxlCcw

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     Reply #3 - April 12, 2014, 03:32 PM

    another great post from Cornflower  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     Reply #4 - April 12, 2014, 03:51 PM

    .......... Now, even in my most difficult life-crisis, I have no need whatsoever to call upon god. I deal with life as it is, and I have ridden myself with the insecurity that really is a huge part of why people have the need to believe in god in the first place. ".........


    ...........Such words energize the readers,  You made my day with those words Cornflower.,  One day I hope to see you in politics as a leader of the humane  community you are living in.....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     Reply #5 - April 12, 2014, 04:08 PM

    Yeez, you flatter me too much. Really. Too much. Tongue

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     Reply #6 - April 12, 2014, 05:24 PM

    Just read and watched the accompanied videos, brilliant CF. Thanks Smiley
    I don't think I will ever reach being as certain as you are Smiley or as grounded

    wish you all the best


    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     Reply #7 - April 12, 2014, 05:58 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LnHoqHscTKE

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     Reply #8 - April 12, 2014, 06:04 PM

    great song, somehow i can picture you singing it  Wink

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     Reply #9 - April 12, 2014, 06:32 PM

    Well Cornflower basically repeated what I said to you last time we skyped, so yeah, nothing to add really.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     Reply #10 - April 12, 2014, 06:41 PM

     Smiley true

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Many questions and thoughts still trouble me
     Reply #11 - April 12, 2014, 06:42 PM

    Also just going to pop this here. Smiley

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2gHt-U1eSg

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »