Islam
AzizIn has joined the chat.
AzizIn (05:37:34) : Welcome to Edialogue.org. May peace be on you.
this is an international site for islam information
here we are telling non Muslim about islam
AzizIn (05:38:08) : hello
Quod Sum Eris (05:38:36) : Assalamualaikum brother/sister
AzizIn (05:39:12) : wailkumasslam brother
Quod Sum Eris (05:39:47) : I hope you're not in the UK, considering the time
AzizIn (05:39:29) : May Allah bless you in your faith in Islam. May Allah give you all the happiness and peace in this world and a beautiful heaven in here after.
Quod Sum Eris (05:40:22) : I actually don't have faith in islam, hence the reason for going to a non muslim information chat, but thaknk you for the thought
Quod Sum Eris (05:40:34) : *thank
AzizIn (05:40:46) : what religion you follow
Quod Sum Eris (05:41:08) : None
AzizIn (05:41:56) : brother can i brief you about islam
Quod Sum Eris (05:42:36) : Sure, that's why I'm here. By the way, are you a brother or a sister?
AzizIn (05:42:26) : ok
Quod Sum Eris (05:42:52) : Just so I know how to address you
AzizIn (05:42:51) : The name of the religion is Islam, which comes from an Arabic root word meaning "peace" and "submission."
AzizIn (05:43:10) : Islam teaches that one can only find peace in one's life by submitting to Almighty God (Allah) in heart, soul and deed.
AzizIn (05:43:24) : The same Arabic root word gives us "As salaam u alaykum," ("Peace be with you"), the universal Muslim greeting.
AzizIn (05:43:39) : when you finish reading pls say ok to continue more
Quod Sum Eris (05:44:31) : Okay. I actually know the basics. Root of the word islam, five pillars, all of that. I've read the quran and a number of hadiths (too many to count
)
AzizIn (05:45:07) : masha Allah
AzizIn (05:45:16) : may Allah bless you brother
Quod Sum Eris (05:45:38) : And you
AzizIn (05:45:40) : i request you to start practicing it also now
AzizIn (05:46:09) : you can join our new muslim accadamy on line free also to learmn islam
Quod Sum Eris (05:46:28) : Well that's the thing. If I was convinced of the religion I wouldn't be here on a chat for non muslims to learn mor about the faith
Quod Sum Eris (05:46:38) : *more
Quod Sum Eris (05:46:56) : I wouldn't practise islam now, or convert. Seems cheap when I have doubts
AzizIn (05:47:11) : pls ask brother
Quod Sum Eris (05:49:45) : Well, my background is catholic. Considering how close catholosism and islam is, you'd think it would be an easy conversion. Being unsatisfied with Christianity, I made some attempts to learn about other faith and currently class myself as an atheist, though not like you may think. I'm very happy to say their could be a god or gods, but the thing is, a theistic god is hard for me to fathom. Deist I can understand, but when I think of the vastness of creation, I simply cannot bring myself to believe that an all powerful being would give a shit about me personally. I just can't do it. I also have great difficulty believing
in an afterlife.
AzizIn (05:51:30) : so basically your confusion about one GOD can do every thing and the same GOD will ask us in here after
Quod Sum Eris (05:53:14) : Not really. It's pretty much what I said. I find it difficult to imagine an all powerful being caring about what I do as an individual. I don't take the time to learn about the individual traits of insects. I imagine to a god, I would be far, far removed from even an insect
AzizIn (05:55:17) : Think about this:
If there is a creation, there must be a Creator
Quod Sum Eris (05:55:50) : As I said, I can understand a deistic outlook
AzizIn (05:55:33) : If there is a Creator, He must be the Sustainer
AzizIn (05:55:49) : yes i am coming to one GOD
AzizIn (05:55:52) : pls wait
Quod Sum Eris (05:56:11) : Sure
AzizIn (05:56:19) : If He is the sole Creator/Sustainer -- He must be ONE.
AzizIn (05:56:32) : God must be one. Otherwise we would see great differences and competition between the gods if there were more than one -- Alone.
Quod Sum Eris (05:57:11) : I understand that. As I said, what I have a hard time grasping is a theistic god. Diest I can actually see much more easily
AzizIn (05:57:23) : if there were more than one God, they would dispute with one another, each god trying to fulfill his will against the will of the other gods.
Quod Sum Eris (05:57:57) : I'm not talking about more than one god...
AzizIn (05:58:09) : pls read this verse from quran
AzizIn (05:58:14) : "If there were, in the heavens And the earth, other gods Besides Allah, there would Have been confusion in both! But glory to Allah, The Lord of the Throne: (High is He) above What they attribute to Him!" [Al-Qur’an 21:22]
Quod Sum Eris (05:58:42) : Brother (or sister) are you familiar with a verse in the quran which says (I'm paraphrasing) allah has not created us with two hearts?
AzizIn (05:59:10) : its one of the signs of Allah
Quod Sum Eris (05:59:38) : Well, that's the thing, if I can just explain
AzizIn (05:59:25) : to create such a wondrful pump in our body
Quod Sum Eris (06:01:19) : I personally view that as a metaphor, not as a literal thing. When I read that, I viewed it as allah saying you cannot be two people, you cannot believe something you don't believe, etc. That's what stops me from beng a muslim. As I said, I can understand a deist view of god, but theist I struggle with. I cannot at the same time view the quran and by extension islam as the work of an all powerful all knowing
god while at the same time seeing flaws in it
Quod Sum Eris (06:02:20) : I know you said I should be a muslim but converting when I'm not sure it's true seems wrong
Quod Sum Eris (06:02:42) : I woudlnt' become a Christian if I didn't think Jesus was the son of god
Quod Sum Eris (06:02:50) : *wouldn't
AzizIn (06:03:05) : brother lets see what is our purpose of creation
AzizIn (06:03:13) : pls give me few mints
Quod Sum Eris (06:03:32) : That's the thing, I'm not convinced their is one
AzizIn (06:03:18) : ok
Quod Sum Eris (06:03:36) : Sure
AzizIn (06:04:20) : Allah says in the quran
AzizIn (06:04:36) : 67:1. Blessed is He in Whose Hand is the dominion, and He is Able to do all things.
67:2. Who has created death and life, that He may test you which of you is best in deed. And He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving;
AzizIn (06:04:50) : so there is test for us
AzizIn (06:05:14) : the primary thing for us to submitt or obey to the instructions of our creator
AzizIn (06:05:25) : it is available in Quran
AzizIn (06:05:41) : 51:56. And I (Allah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone). AL Quran
AzizIn (06:06:01) : Allah has craeted animals also
]
AzizIn (06:06:13) : but they dont have free choice
AzizIn (06:06:32) : but Allah craeted humas with a free will choice
AzizIn (06:06:38) : this is the test for us
Quod Sum Eris (06:07:00) : Only if allah is real and the quran is true. There is something I would like to ask that you've just reminded me of. It's a question I have from reading the quran and hadiths that has been a huge burden and I would like to discuss it if that's possible?
AzizIn (06:07:20) : Allah sent prophets and HIS instruction manuals to follow
Quod Sum Eris (06:07:51) : Would it be possible to ask about a questin I have?
Quod Sum Eris (06:07:57) : *questin
AzizIn (06:07:41) : as a muslim follower i need few basic things to follow
Quod Sum Eris (06:08:01) : *question
AzizIn (06:07:47) : wait
Quod Sum Eris (06:08:07) : Sure
AzizIn (06:07:51) : wait
AzizIn (06:08:12) : the basic beleifs which are 6 hope you know them
AzizIn (06:08:27) : and the 5 pillars of islam to practice
AzizIn (06:08:40) : its enough for me to start practicing
AzizIn (06:08:50) : i can improve it more also
]
AzizIn (06:09:10) : so the scholors learn in depth the quran nad hadeeth
AzizIn (06:09:11) : ok
Quod Sum Eris (06:09:46) : Well, as I said there was a question I wanted to discuss
AzizIn (06:09:36) : now pls tell me is there any thing i could benefit you so far
Quod Sum Eris (06:10:30) : As I've said several times there's a question
I have since reading the quran and hadiths that you've reminded me of
AzizIn (06:10:33) : sir
AzizIn (06:10:34) : pls
AzizIn (06:10:38) : one by one
AzizIn (06:10:39) : ok
AzizIn (06:10:52) : lets finish from our first thing
Quod Sum Eris (06:11:16) : Sure
AzizIn (06:11:01) : about purpose of our life
AzizIn (06:11:04) : is that ok
Quod Sum Eris (06:11:25) : I hopeI didn't come across as rude
Quod Sum Eris (06:12:18) : *hope
AzizIn (06:12:28) : r u ok wit our purpose of creation
Quod Sum Eris (06:12:54) : Okay
AzizIn (06:12:40) : we are here for test with our free will
AzizIn (06:12:46) : is this ok with you
Quod Sum Eris (06:13:18) :
I don't think we have free will islamically speaking
AzizIn (06:13:20) : it is
AzizIn (06:13:50) : 2:256:There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut(false Gods) and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower. Al Quran
Quod Sum Eris (06:16:02) : When I was reading (I think the quran but I may be wrong) it said that our fates are predetermined. That allah creates our souls, tells an angel to write down everything (if you will be a muslim or a non muslim lie me), if you will be happy or sad, if you will enter heaven or hell. Allah decides all this before we're born and then breaths our soul into our mother's wombs. So that right there says we don't have free will. Allah has decided before we were even born. Nothing happens except by a
llah's will
AzizIn (06:16:39) : brother i am a associate prof in universit
Quod Sum Eris (06:17:07) : Col
Quod Sum Eris (06:17:10) : *cool
AzizIn (06:16:53) : i know my students very well
AzizIn (06:17:20) : and i can predict all my students who will pass and who will fail
AzizIn (06:17:40) : but i still need to take the test to make it justice
AzizIn (06:17:58) : GOD knoledge is more than any thing
]
AzizIn (06:18:14) : its HIS knoledge wich HE tells
AzizIn (06:18:15) : ok
Quod Sum Eris (06:18:46) : Well, your students could surprise you. With the greatest respect, you're not a god and I don't see how it's comparable
.
AzizIn (06:18:42) : i hope you need to just rlax and throw all negative things to understand this
AzizIn (06:18:43) : ok
AzizIn (06:18:59) : i just gave you example
AzizIn (06:19:04) : you are not reading
AzizIn (06:19:11) : you are preoccupied
AzizIn (06:19:14) : i am sorry
Quod Sum Eris (06:19:59) : I am reading. I promise.
Quod Sum Eris (06:20:30) : As a professor, I'm assuming you're a learned man/woman. So let me ask you something
Quod Sum Eris (06:20:58) : Allah is the most merciful. The quran says (if I remember correctly) that allah has more mercy than a mother. Correct?
AzizIn (06:22:25) : brother agin you are jumping
AzizIn (06:22:38) : lets finish from one thing you asked
AzizIn (06:22:48) : we can not go at random
Quod Sum Eris (06:23:05) : Well I do have a point to make, but sure, we can come back to io
Quod Sum Eris (06:23:07) : *it
AzizIn (06:23:02) : its not human ligic
AzizIn (06:23:15) : if at all you like to get convinced
Quod Sum Eris (06:24:18) : Okay. Your point being that I can't understand the mind of god so I shouldn't try? Or something else?
Quod Sum Eris (06:25:19) : I'm sorry if I'm coming across the wrong way brother. I just have so many doubts
Quod Sum Eris (06:25:30) : So amny things don't make sense
Quod Sum Eris (06:25:34) : *many
AzizIn (06:25:37) : brother quran verse has reference and context
AzizIn (06:25:47) : it need to understand in that
AzizIn (06:26:10) : you can not take one verse and just make your point
AzizIn (06:26:33) : i hope if you are accadamics than you understand this
AzizIn (06:26:39) : any how
AzizIn (06:27:01) : i suggest you to see this vedio for few mints for life after death
AzizIn (06:27:17) : becos this will save lot of our time in writing
AzizIn (06:27:18) : ok
AzizIn (06:27:28) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ILB5uXAikUQuod Sum Eris (06:28:35) : I know, I've read them. But it doesn't make sense. For example, allah is the most merciful, and yet he creates some of us to be tortured for eternity. Here's a situation. Let's say there's something in your house you don't like. It offends you. Let's also say you have the power of a god. Would you A) throw away the thing you didn't like or give it to charity, or B) bring it to life, give it intelligence so it can understand what's happening, enable it to feel pain, and torture it forever and ever and ever? Which is more merciful? And if I convert to islam, I know that my friends, my family, my own mother o is the most wonderful person in the world will be TORTURED forever! Sometimes I think I'd rather go to hell, because I cannot imagine being in heaven while good people are punished unjustly. How could I do this? How could I say allah is the most merciful when he tortures my mother for
the crime of believing the wrong thing? It's evil
Quod Sum Eris (06:30:18) : I really think that. I really think I would rather go to hell than go to heaven and know my wonderful mother is being tortured for all eternity for the crime of beliving the wrong thing which allah decided to make her believe in the first place. It doesn't make sense to me. How is this god merciful? How is allah worth worshipping? This shit keeps me up at night
Quod Sum Eris (06:30:32) : It's why I'm on this chat at 6:30 in the bloody morning
Topic: Conversation with a dawah pusher