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Theme Changer

 Topic: Losing my mental health

 (Read 6255 times)
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  • Losing my mental health
     OP - April 23, 2014, 09:09 AM

    Hello All,

    I am a very recent poster to this board, i have an issue that has started to affect my mental health, maybe i just need to rant about it somewhere, maybe i am looking for help, im not sure.

    I have a very religous wife, and two lovely kids.  i also have a good marriage, me and my wife get along like a house on fire, and have a good life together.

    Last year i lost my faith, but kept it secret from my wife.  I have spent the last year living a light hearted double life, but i was happy with the compromise.

    Recently my wife starting pushing me on why i dont practice any more.  Initally i ignored her questions, but eventually I tried to justify my choices based on islamic arguments.  This just led her to become even more annoyed with me and close off from me regarding my beliefs.

    the problem im having is that im trying to justify my existence using a set of rules i dont belive in, and this is affecting my mental health.  Im no long able to concentrate at work, i spend the whole day going through the arguments i have for not believing, and feeling helpless that i cannot express them, and feeling frustrated at trying to find a logical argument in the quran that can be used to justify my life choices.

    I know that i can never convince my wife that islam is not true, and i dont even want to try going down that path. 
    If i tell my wife that i am no longer muslim, then i risk losing my wife and children.  And even if my wife doesnt leave, im not sure our relationship will be the same after she finds out i am an apostate. 
    I would hate for my kids to grow up without a mother or father.

    If i keep my secret to myself, then i need to find a way of coming to terms with mental stress of not being open about my core beliefs.

    The crazy thing is that i am happy with how i currently live my life.  I live in london, and am happy with the choice of halal foods available, i dont have any restrictions on what to wear, watch, or listen to,   i dont crave alcohol, or a party lifestyle.  Infact, i could probably live very happily living like a muslim, and have the odd secret drink once or twice a year.

    The thing that has been affecting my mental health is having to justify my life choices using Islam.  Reading this post back, it sounds like such a trivial thing but so far i have not managed to find peace of mind. 

    any advice or experince with this situation would be helpful.


    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #1 - April 23, 2014, 10:31 AM

    Why do you feel you have the need to use Islam to justify your choices? Wouldn't your wife accept that you don't want to "practice" Islam in a certain way? I don't think you should "come out" but perhaps try and explain that you and your wife don't need to involve religion in everything. Would she be open to that fact?

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #2 - April 23, 2014, 10:36 AM

    I can relate to you quite a bit, aside. There was a point in my marriage where I figured my game plan was going to be to remain in my marriage, to pretend to be Muslim forever, and to kind of buy myself some space and freedom by arguing about Islam.

    Things went fairly well, to be honest, and the only things that really bothered me were situational anxieties about possibly moving to a sharia state or raising kids who were trained to accept science as the glorified opinion of those atheists/Zionists out to make Islam look bad.

    When I first met my husband, he wasn't incredibly strict, I've known far worse, but he had some pretty high expectations for what a good Muslim and his wife should be, and I slowly began to drop the ball. When he began to complain, I really had to up my arguments, and it wasn't that difficult, but it also wasn't loads of fun. But after enough time went on, it didn't matter how well he and I got along ordinarily (we had no other complaints with each other at all), I started to really resent him in some ways, especially when it was difficult to reason with him during the Islamic arguments, especially when I heard him repeating some of the most mind-numbing and illogical nonsense to ever be uttered by theists, and especially when I was made to feel like the one who was both unintelligent and in error.

    I know what you mean: like you, I had almost no interest in any "haram" things either. I sit at home and I knit. Grin I didn't feel like I was being deprived of something, I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything. But the stress kept building, anyway.

    My circumstance eventually found my husband more or less gathering that I have lost my faith without me even saying it, and we haven't been any worse for wear yet, but when I look back on what I was doing just months ago, assuring myself I'd be content with being perpetually on trial, I don't know how I was ever happy. I feel so much better now, and if my husband tried pushing me again and putting me in that position, I would no longer stay. It sounds like leaving your wife isn't even an option to you, but it is really sad to see you doing what I did: committing to a lifetime of deception and sacrifice to stay with someone who would leave you if they knew you, or whose relationship with you might become strained.

    If you're anything like me, even if you could see yourself keeping this balancing act up indefinitely now, there may come a time when something has to give, whether it will be that you are able to soften your wife's religious views up to be more lenient (at the moment, my husband's religious views are nearly identical to my old ones), or that you will have to come clean and see what happens (which I would not do without consulting a lawyer, considering your children). To just take it all upon yourself to keep the relationship together is always going to be a very stressful thing. I doubt that anything can change that unless you're both willing to meet each other halfway.

    If you really do decide to just bite the bullet and continue on, on the plus side, the people here are fantastic, and usually at least one or two people will know exactly what you're going through. So at least you'll have CEMB to vent and recalibrate your system. Wink

    Good luck, no matter what you decide!
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #3 - April 23, 2014, 10:51 AM

    Hello Cornflower,

    Thank you for responding to my messge.  I was trying to use islam to justify my actions because i figured if i could find a more relaxed interpretation of islam, then maybe i could find a compromise with my wife, where she would get to keep a muslim husband, and i could carry on with my life without constantly being asked why i was not living by the rules of the faith.

    For my wife religion is life, so i dont think she would respond well to the suggestion that we dont need to include religion in every aspect of life.

    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #4 - April 23, 2014, 11:26 AM

    Hello Iua,

    thank you for taking the time to provide such a detailed response.  Its always nice to hear from someone who has been through the same situation.

    At the moment, i keep changing my mind about how to deal with this situation.  but your post has really helped to clear my mind(for the moment atleast).

    I think the mental pressure of trying to live like i have will probably mean that eventually something will snap if i dont deal with the underlying problem.

    I love my wife, but i dont belive in staying in a relationship for the sake of it, especially if it makes everyone unhappy constantly.  My kids are a big concern to me because i can see how upset they get when my wife goes back to her parents house to visit even for a few days.

    what do you think about the strategy of, dropping hints of my apostasy without ever saying it over a long period of time like a year or two, so things like
    I could never punish my kids for eternity if they disobeyed me
    i dont understand gods justice
    why would god give someone a non muslim upbringing, then punish them eternally for not finding islam

    is that going too far. 
    How far did you go before your husband got the hint




    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #5 - April 23, 2014, 12:41 PM

    Cornflower, Lua,

    I dont mean to pry too much into your lives, but do you have kids, and if so how would this affect your decision to leave your partner.

    Cornflower i know from some of your posts, you have left your partner, but if you are willing to answer the question then I would still like to hear your views.

    Thanks

    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #6 - April 23, 2014, 12:56 PM

    Sorry I didn't see this earlier! I don't consider it prying.  Afro  I'm about to get a bit busy at work, but I will respond tonight, aside.
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #7 - April 23, 2014, 03:34 PM

    It's not prying at all, as I have been open about a lot of person things here on the forum. I think it boils down to what kind of a person your wife is, how much Islam affects your life and life quality and whether or not staying or leaving would be in the best interest of your children.

    Just like you, I also thought of living a "double life" and try to compromise and make my husband agree to some very minor changes (not forcing me to wear the niqab, not move to a shariah state). Unfortunately, that wasn't possible and I think that this way of thinking is sometimes typical even though in 99 % of the cases quiet frankly a little bit insane. My ex is very rigid and extreme in his beliefs and opinions. We could never have a normal life in a non-Muslim society because he asked of me to cover up completely, he hates the disbelievers, not to mention that he never wanted to take part in family activities if this involved mixing with kuffar or being near them. So in my case, if I wanted to have a somewhat normal life both for myself and my daughter, I had to get out. I was afraid, but eventually I was forced to confront the matter and what happened, happened.

    I would never suggest to anyone to live a double life and pretend to be someone your not. I know all too well how difficult this can be and what strains it puts of your mental well being. But I also would like to say that it's always better to go through all other possible alternatives before going separate ways, especially since you and your wife seem to have a very good relationship. Even saying that you're not "practicing" and that you don't want her to be on your back regarding your religion would be better than to break up, even though you're not coming out as an apostate.

    Would she be susceptible to the fact that you no longer want to practice Islam as you once did? Could she respect your decision? I know most Muslims see religion and faith as everyone's business, but perhaps you can have talks and discussions where you say that you want to do this on your own and continue life without having to make a big deal out of it. It seems as your lifestyle wouldn't change much anyway.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #8 - April 23, 2014, 03:58 PM

    I'd just be honest with her, explain your inner feelings and doubts, avoid arguments, she may rant and rave at you but let her deal with it in her own way, she may end up being supportive..   don't announce to the world that youre an apostate, it's non of anyones business..  i wish you both well..

    xxx
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #9 - April 23, 2014, 04:32 PM

    thanks for your advice Cornflower.

    I agree with you regarding declaring my apostasy.  i only want to do it as a last resort, as i know i will lose everyone close in my life it i do it.

    The last time i told my wife i didnt want to practice, she became very upset, and started crying, i assume because she thinks im on the path to hell.

    I think i might give her some time, then try explaining again to her that im a non practicing muslim, lets hope she can come to terms with this, and i can then stop having to explain myself.

    i feel less stressed about my issue today,  it seems speaking about it is really helpful.

    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #10 - April 24, 2014, 12:28 AM

    do you think about the strategy of, dropping hints of my apostasy without ever saying it over a long period of time like a year or two, so things like
    I could never punish my kids for eternity if they disobeyed me
    i dont understand gods justice
    why would god give someone a non muslim upbringing, then punish them eternally for not finding islam

    is that going too far. 
    How far did you go before your husband got the hint


    I completely understand what you're saying...It's a difficult decision to make.

    There's probably no harm in giving it a good shot, though, and seeing if you can keep the act up. It's not necessarily something I'd recommend, but if above all else you want to stay with your wife, there's little else to be done if you are sure coming clean would be a disaster. You just need to remember that you should not have to live a difficult and deceptive life if it becomes too stressful. As soon as it begins to feel like more trouble than reward, I would tell her the truth, but not before planning for the worst.

    As for the dropping hints thing, if your wife isn't very open-minded, I would say the chances are slim. A few months after my marriage, my husband told me that I wasn't Muslim anymore because I didn't believe in the authority of the hadith. Less than a year later, he was mocking them right by my side. However, a month or two ago, I showed him a CEMB video in Arabic about the logical fallacies of Hell, and he flat out told me afterwards that he had nothing to say to it. He didn't have a single counter argument in mind. And yet, he still has not considered that Islam could not be true. So, he is very open-minded for having been a very religious Sunni from Saudi Arabia, and I managed to turn him into a live-and-let-live Quranist, but that is the best I can do it seems. Showing him the logical problems with Islam has done nothing but make him figure out my apostasy.

    But as for how I softened him up, it's all about the Quran, man. If you're going to try to get her to have a more flexible view of Islam, the Quranist route is the best way to push it. There's also been a slight rise in the presence of Quranists on the internet in recent years, as far as I could tell, and you may be able to find resources online to help bolster your arguments. I'm trying to think of some good Quranists who lecture, but I can't really think of anyone except Adnan Ibrahim, who is more of a "liberal" Muslim than a Quranist (he still uses the hadith). I personally never liked him (with the exception of one video I still find surprisingly good), but I've known strict Sunnis who, if they really sat and listened, came out of watching some of his videos a bit less certain of their previous positions.

    Anyway, I hesitate to even say it, because I know full well that this is easier said than done, but I personally think that you should really consider if this is what you want for yourself, and be ready to take that leap if it's not. You deserve to be respected and loved for who you are, and not who you're pretending to be. If the truth about you would cause your wife to leave you or to be unable to live as harmoniously as before, it sounds like you might not be.

    And as someone who has been on both sides of the fence, let me tell you that sometimes you don't know how unhappy you really were until you're free of that burden. Like I said before, I would sooner leave my husband than go back to that lifestyle. It's one thing to have to keep up a pretense in a community when you're out; it's another thing to have to do it in your own home and with the person who is supposed to be your closest friend.
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #11 - April 24, 2014, 07:13 AM

    Lua,

    Thank you for such a detailed response. I think it amazing that you managed to ifluence your husband in such a positive way. 

    Its funny, I tried the quranist method, and my wife totally closed off, and told me that she would only discuss my beliefs any further if her scholar cousin was present.
    Her reaction makes me fear that my wife needs her faith in a more fundamental way than I did.


    Ive been married for several years now, and need to atleast try and find a way forward before throwing in the towel.

    Your post has been inspirational, I do take on board your comment that I cant do this long term. I think I do need to draw a line somewhere here.

    Over the next few months I think im gonna tell her slowly that Im not a practicing muslim and give her some hints of my apostacy without actually saying it. Then she can decide if she wants to remain in the relationship.

    I feel a lot more relaxed now that ive discussed this with someone. Thank you for your inputs.
    A part of me wishes id never lost my faith, dilusion was nice and comforting. But on balance id rather walk around with my eyes open than live with the rules of an imaginary being.


    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #12 - April 24, 2014, 07:24 AM

    And don't forget you're in Britain. Your wife will not be able to deny you access to your children if all goes tits up.
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #13 - April 25, 2014, 12:02 PM

    Its funny, I tried the quranist method, and my wife totally closed off, and told me that she would only discuss my beliefs any further if her scholar cousin was present.
    Her reaction makes me fear that my wife needs her faith in a more fundamental way than I did.

    Over the next few months I think im gonna tell her slowly that Im not a practicing muslim and give her some hints of my apostacy without actually saying it. Then she can decide if she wants to remain in the relationship.

    I feel a lot more relaxed now that ive discussed this with someone. Thank you for your inputs.
    A part of me wishes id never lost my faith, dilusion was nice and comforting. But on balance id rather walk around with my eyes open than live with the rules of an imaginary being.




    Thanks for the kind words! I am glad if it helped a little. As always, I completely know how you feel.

    Yes, the Quranist bit is hard for most Sunnis to consider, my husband was uncommonly receptive, but the fact that she actually demanded that all religious discussions take place with her scholar cousin watching over speaks volumes about her inflexibility on this issue as far as I can tell...

    If you are dropping hints about your apostasy, be prepared for her to eventually ask you outright if you're still a Muslim. It sounds like it won't take long.

    Also, I used to hear from my mentor, who is close friends with our local imam, that sometimes someone would come to the mosque to speak to the imam or his son about how their spouse seems to be going astray. Things from the spouse getting lazy with prayers all the way up to actual apostasy. Typically, those who seek Islamic advice on the matter are going to be given some pretty awful advice. Either they will be asked to stay in the marriage for a while to really push the religion on their partner, or, in extreme cases, told that their marriage isn't even valid anymore and that all sexual acts since the apostasy were unlawful and need to be repented for. When people thought my husband's liberal views were edging on apostasy (ha), everyone and his mother tried to get him to come speak to them. I guess just be prepared for things like that, also. It might get messy if you're settling in for the sort of slow reveal process...

    Also, I saw on your other thread that you're officially one of us now. Cheesy I think we're all pretty unhappy that our lives are being influenced by one guy's dishonesty or superstition from hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

    Good luck, aside. Keep your head up. It's definitely a sort of "it'll get worse before it gets better" ordeal, but with a little luck you'll be much better off than you were before.
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #14 - May 01, 2014, 08:50 AM

    a few days ago i asked my wife if there was anything in islam that didnt make sense, and to my surprise, she said that she could not understand how god could spend an eternity watching his creation being punished.

    For a bried moment i felt hope that maybe my wife was also having doubts about islam.  I then told her that i was also having similar doubts and could not understand how a god could give someone a non muslim upbringing, then punish them for not finding Islam.  She seemed to agree that this did not make any sense.

    I left it alone for a couple of days, then brought the subject up again, and told her that i am really struggling with the concept of Islamic justice.  she told me that she thinks that we are just having a down period with our iman, and we just need to let these thoughts run thier course, and our iman will recover over time.

    She seems to have come to the conlusion that she cant be the only muslim who has had these thoughts, and there must be an explanation even if she doesnt undertand it yet.

    I dont think my wife will every question the existence of God, or Islam, as I think she is too intrenched with the faith. 
    On a more posititve note, i told her that i am struggling with islamic justice, and she did not freak out, or call me an apostate. 
    ive managed to have these conversations in a non confrontational way, and so far so good.  Im going to try and build on this over the next few months, see where it takes us.


    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #15 - May 01, 2014, 03:24 PM

    ^ That's great news, aside.

    Coincidentally, the video I mentioned showing to my husband somewhere on this thread was a CEMB one on that very subject. There's an Arabic and English version, which definitely helped a lot. I don't know if that'd be pushing it with your wife, but maybe someday, maybe later in the year, you can show it to her and ask her opinion.

    My husband, at least, had not a single counterargument. He tried revising his idea of Hell to make the conditions so strict that basically no one on Earth would ever wind up there, and when I pointed that out, he had nothing. Of course, he's still Muslim, but things like this over the last two years have definitely made him more of a live-and-let-live kind of guy.

    Anyway, glad to hear it! That's really encouraging.
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #16 - May 01, 2014, 04:02 PM

    The fucked up thing about islam is that it lays the blame on you. You have doubts? That's the Devil trying to trick you. This doesn't seem right? You need to learn more. This verse in the quran doesn't impress you? You need to try harder.

    This is one of the reasons I compare islam to catholicism. It's fucked up.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #17 - May 01, 2014, 04:20 PM

    He tried revising his idea of Hell to make the conditions so strict that basically no one on Earth would ever wind up there,

    Anyway, glad to hear it! That's really encouraging.


    After our conversatin, my wife joked, that maybe we should become mystical muslims who only believe in hell as a metaphorical concept. 


    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #18 - May 01, 2014, 04:22 PM

    "A joke is a very serious thing."  whistling2
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #19 - May 01, 2014, 04:25 PM

    Quod,

    I hate the self blame concepts too.  For years I blamed myself for not being able to understand islam fully.  Now i know why it didnt always make sense.  

    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #20 - May 01, 2014, 04:29 PM

    After our conversatin, my wife joked, that maybe we should become mystical muslims who only believe in hell as a metaphorical concept.  

    aside please don't think that I am putting you down.,  but to me your wife appears to be more atheistic than you. You seem to have wonderful family so what she believes or does not believe should not worry you unless she is trying to force you to do something ISLAMIC that is NOT  humanistic such as ...... (that is for you to fill it up)

    So please focus on your work.. focus on your job.... focus on having fun with family and friends who you understand and they understand your point of view about life in general..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #21 - May 01, 2014, 04:37 PM

    Quod,

    I hate the self blame concepts too.  For years I blamed myself for not being able to understand islam fully.  Now i know why it didnt always make sense.  


    Exactly!!!! I had a catholic family and it's the exact same shit. Growing up, one of the things I hated most was Original Sin, which I viewed, and still do to this day, as a wicked perverse evil teaching. One of the things I liked about islam when I began learning about it was that it has no concept of original sin. Then I learned a little bit more about the religion and realised, yes, it does, it just calls it something else. The guilt and paranoia encouraged is shocking and abusive. It makes you doubt your own mind. But how can I know what's right? How can I decide what's good and just and right and moral? How can I know right from wrong, good from evil? How can I teach my children morality? How can I question the will of god?

    It's all the same shit. People used to joke about catholic shame. Give it a few years before the jokes about islamic shame become widespread.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #22 - May 01, 2014, 04:48 PM

    Hi Yeezevee

    I would love nothing more than to be able to get on with my life, and just put this stuff into the background.  And when i read stuff like what Cornflower is going through, it puts in perspective how easy i have it.

    I suppose the problem for me is that, im struggling with keeping quiet about my lack of faith.  I keep asking myself why i have an overwhelming desire to be vocal about my apostasy, when i have so much to lose, and very little to gain from coming out. 
    Once my mind comes to terms with this hopefully i will be able to concentrate on all the good things you mention.


    A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible
  • Losing my mental health
     Reply #23 - May 01, 2014, 05:08 PM

    so glad  to see your response aside
    Hi Yeezevee

    I would love nothing more than to be able to get on with my life, and just put this stuff into the background.  ............................

    I suppose the problem for me is that,  

    I think so., I do think the problem is with you., It seems you have your own family.. wife and children..and she appears to be very understanding
    Quote
    i m struggling with keeping quiet about my lack of faith.

    No you are NOT keeping quite., you are writing in to the forums like this., You being an happy guy can do more TO YOUR FAITH. And your faith is "A Ex-Muslim guy without Islamic rules and rituals attached to your life"

    Quote
    I keep asking myself why i have an overwhelming desire to be vocal about my apostasy, when i have so much to lose, and very little to gain from coming out.  

    Well  aside ,  we all have some goals in life apart having life ..job..money..wonderful family..  and to me right now your goal appears to be to WEAN OUT ISLAM OUT OF MUSLIM FOLKS(if not whole Islam but part of it) that are near and dear to you.

    Now you coming out with t-shirt on you "ISLAM IS BAD ..YOU MUSLIMS GET OUT OF ISLAM " ..

    would that help your cause??   please think about it..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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