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 Topic: The topic of pre marital sex

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  • The topic of pre marital sex
     OP - May 07, 2014, 09:51 AM
    This is something that has been bothering me for a long time. As a muslim this was clearly wrong, in many religions and cultures it is wrong as well.
    Now I come from an indian culture, where sex before marriage is shocking so it's wrong both culturally and religiously.

    What plays on my mind is the fact that no one in m y family would have pre marital sex, not even the converts and if they had to find out I was it would be a huge disappointment and drama.

    What exactly makes something right or wrong? If I feel there is nothing wrong with it and I'm fine with it but majority of my family is not fine with it then is it still right?

    I am still struggling to accept that I could never be this good little indian girl, still amazes me how I could be SO different from the people around me
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #1 - May 07, 2014, 10:31 AM
    It is very tough to answer that. Personally I don't like polygamy but if all partners VOLUNTARILY consent I have no objection. I think moral actions are those that doesn't harm anyone or anything, including yourself.
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #2 - May 07, 2014, 12:24 PM
    You aren't a slave to the pressure of your family / culture

    Nobody has a right to tell you what to do with your body, so whether or not your parents are happy with it means absolutely nothing, this is not to say you HAVE to do this stuff now, but that's the point, it's your choice, not your mothers, fathers, uncles or cousins

    I understand you may come from a community where extreme discretion in this matter is needed due to the threat to your quality of life / safety /desire to have a roof over your head, but don't confuse that with right & wrong

    As for what right & wrong, with many issues in the world, there is no concrete answer, and it depends on person to person, I'm not religious, so I don't deal in the absolutes of good/evil
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #3 - May 07, 2014, 01:49 PM
    Rules governing men's and women's sexuality are different from each other in patriarchal societies. Sometimes they seem to be equal in front of the (religious) "law", for example with Christian morals and ethics, while the reality is very different from the "theory" (women having sex out of wedlock is still more frowned upon). Sometimes the rules are very different in theory as well as practice, as in the case with Islam. Men can have 4 wives and multiple concubines. Mutah and misyar marriages are designed by and for men and their interests. Interestingly enough, it is mainly patriarchal cultures that focus on sexuality in the way we are discussing now. If you look at cultures with matriarchal influences, they have very often a more "layed back" attitude towards sex. Very often they see nothing shameful with desire and lust, nor do they necessarily require institutionalized marriages in order for people to enjoy sex with each other.

    If we're going into historical development, patriarchy took its form as we know it during the agricultural revolution. When we went from hunter-gathering society to agriculture and ownership, it meant you know owned your property now, including your women. Protecting their chastity was incumbent because you wanted to make sure you raised and fed your own prodigy and not someone else's. In fact, this argument is still used when Muslims explain why polygamy for women isn't "natural" or right. Governance and control over (female) sexuality has nothing to do with morality or "right" and "wrong". Just because people package it in some religious form and shape doesn't make it so.

    I'm trying to keep it brief because I'm typing from my phone, but the reason why I mentioned all this is because there really aren't any real reasons forvyou to believe sex before marriage is "wrong". Your family might have multiple (il)logical reasons why they think it's wrong. But analyzing it from a historical, siciological and anthropological perspective, it all seems pretty dumb and stupid Roll Eyes Have sex, be happy. It's human. Islam is a very inhumane and unatural way of living.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #4 - May 07, 2014, 01:51 PM
    Quote from: Gunner on May 07, 2014, 12:24 PM
    I understand you may come from a community where extreme discretion in this matter is needed due to the threat to your quality of life / safety /desire to have a roof over your head, but don't confuse that with right & wrong


     Afro

    Also what Cornflower said, as usual.
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #5 - May 07, 2014, 02:00 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on May 07, 2014, 01:49 PM
    Have sex, be happy. It's human.


    haha well said
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #6 - May 07, 2014, 02:04 PM
    I can't wait to commit zina, just have to find someone cute and interested Grin dance
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #7 - May 07, 2014, 02:06 PM
    lol i think i technically commit zina A LOT
    and to be honest its actually quite intimate and romantic and not at all cheap and demeaning
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #8 - May 07, 2014, 02:09 PM
    Who said zina is cheap and demeaning Huh? Fuck Islam and its fucked up morality
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #9 - May 07, 2014, 02:09 PM
    the way people talk as if zina is the worst thing u can do,
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #10 - May 07, 2014, 03:14 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on May 07, 2014, 02:04 PM
    I can't wait to commit zina, just have to find someone cute and interested Grin dance

    Interesting. *takes notes*
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #11 - May 07, 2014, 03:15 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on May 07, 2014, 02:09 PM
    Who said zina is cheap and demeaning Huh? Fuck Islam and its fucked up morality

     yes
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #12 - May 07, 2014, 03:17 PM
    There's no way I'd get married without sampling the goods first.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #13 - May 07, 2014, 03:34 PM
    I had/still have this problem. I had sex when I was 15 years old. A year later, when I was 16, my parents had found out about it. They would beat me up and were so angry. What they did is send me to Egypt to have this stupid surgery to socall repair my hymen (what is nonsense, because there no such thing as repairing it, and having sex after having this surgery doesnt let you blood (speaks out of biological evidence and experience)). They let me do this surgery out of my will. I am still very mad at the doctor, because he told me that he wouldnt do the surgery if I said no, and I said obviously no. But whatever. Even  after this surgery, I still have sex (they dont know, because I know that if they would know; my dad is either gonna kill me or disown me  Cry ). Indeed, it is human and natural and why avoid it? I also dont understand the whole marriage thingy. Like who came up with this thing of going to the government to tell them you have a relationship :s And why would you make your relationship (which should be official) even more official.. I am not against marriage, but it is just a weird thing that doesnt have any added value to any relationship. But yeah, I dont have to think about marriage now, am only 19 : D
    Dogs never bite me - just humans. ~ M. Monroe

    Religions seem to cause more grief than good.

    Exmuslim Chat
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #14 - May 07, 2014, 03:38 PM
    @Ladybird- far away hug.
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #15 - May 07, 2014, 03:40 PM
    @Rubaya  Smiley far away hug
    Dogs never bite me - just humans. ~ M. Monroe

    Religions seem to cause more grief than good.

    Exmuslim Chat
  • Re: The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #16 - May 07, 2014, 05:20 PM
    Quote from: confusedagno on May 07, 2014, 09:51 AM
    This is something that has been bothering me for a long time. As a muslim this was clearly wrong, in many religions and cultures it is wrong as well.
    Now I come from an indian culture, where sex before marriage is shocking so it's wrong both culturally and religiously.

    What plays on my mind is the fact that no one in m y family would have pre marital sex, not even the converts and if they had to find out I was it would be a huge disappointment and drama.

    What exactly makes something right or wrong? If I feel there is nothing wrong with it and I'm fine with it but majority of my family is not fine with it then is it still right?

    I am still struggling to accept that I could never be this good little indian girl, still amazes me how I could be SO different from the people around me


    Two different cultural settings. That of the family in which they were raised and that of you the environment in which you were raise. As a member of the younger generation within a different environment you are introduced to and interact with concepts which an older generation will have nothing to do with. To many of the older generation these are just concept they read about but hardly interact with. This happens with every new generation or as a group humanity would never progress as no one would challenge the statue quo or discuss alternatives.

    Also one should not look at premarital sex under such a generalization of good or bad. It assigned a value to an action following arbitrary guidelines which can not be applied to every person or situation. Is one of my friend's relationship of 6 years valued less than another friend's marriage/relationship of 2 years. Why is the 2 year relationship granted greater value than a relationship of 6 years just due to a words, rituals and a party of so-called marriage? Why is a marriage which has produced no children, no property and no increase in wealth be valued more than a common law relationship which has produced a family owned business, a house, 2 cars and a hobby farm. Why does the concept of marriage automatically increase no just the value of a relationship but undermines every other value produced outside of marriage. Just with two these two examples which do you think has been more productive for the individuals and family unit?

    This value assessment is enforced on emotions. Marriage automatically promotes one group's emotions as more legitimate or authentic than another's group's. A married couple's love is real when an unmarried couples is not. It's a very black and white look at other's feelings. Do we impose this type of value assessment on other feelings such as anger, sadness or fear? Do people only feel true anger only if they have an anger management or rage issue? Feeling sad can only be truly experienced by those suffering from depression. Fear is only true if it is due to a phobia.

    Such an outlook completely removes the human element of emotion. We devalue humans turning people into mere numbers to make stupid points. Mine included as I have to in order to counter such a view.
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #17 - May 07, 2014, 08:38 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLsNZ8vk1Xs&feature=player_embedded
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #18 - May 07, 2014, 11:22 PM
    Dude. For real man. Fuck Islam. Fuck Muhammad and his goddamn manipulative, psychotic creation called the Qur'an. Fuck his Allah and angels and all the rest of that bullshit. Sex is such a normal, beautiful, good human function, and while that mofo had sex with a 9 year old, he made billions and billions of people worry about having normal, consensual sex with adults. Stoning people? For Sex? Really dude? Fuck you.

    Shit pisses me off so much. Islam's obsession with what goes into or comes out of people's private parts. Any god that spends his time worrying about who humans have sex with is not a god that deserves anyone's worship.

    But it's not about god, though, is it? It's about manipulation.

    If you have people worrying about you in their most personal and intimate moments, you can have complete control over them. And that was exactly what Muhammad wanted: control. Don't give it to him

    Have sex, people. Enjoy it. It's good. It's what humans do. Allah will just have to get the fuck over it.

    Sent during happy hour.
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #19 - May 07, 2014, 11:28 PM
    That needs to be framed and sent to churches mosques and synagoguee around the world.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #20 - May 08, 2014, 02:24 AM
    Quote from: happymurtad on May 07, 2014, 11:22 PM
    Dude. For real man. Fuck Islam. Fuck Muhammad and his goddamn manipulative, psychotic creation called the Qur'an. Fuck his Allah and angels and all the rest of that bullshit. Sex is such a normal, beautiful, good human function, and while that mofo had sex with a 9 year old, he made billions and billions of people worry about having normal, consensual sex with adults. Stoning people? For Sex? Really dude? Fuck you.

    Shit pisses me off so much. Islam's obsession with what goes into or comes out of people's private parts. Any god that spends his time worrying about who humans have sex with is not a god that deserves anyone's worship.

    But it's not about god, though, is it? It's about manipulation.

    If you have people worrying about you in their most personal and intimate moments, you can have complete control over them. And that was exactly what Muhammad wanted: control. Don't give it to him

    Have sex, people. Enjoy it. It's good. It's what humans do. Allah will just have to get the fuck over it.

    Sent during happy hour.


    CHEERS!!
    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #21 - May 08, 2014, 04:19 AM
    yep its messed up logic, islam allows sex slavery, paedophillia and polygamy without the first wifes consent - so long as your marry them its ok to be an arse  wacko

    still i think the only problem with pre marital sex is that it can bring unwanted preganancies..

  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #22 - May 08, 2014, 04:35 AM
    Marital sex can bring unwanted pregnancies.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #23 - May 08, 2014, 07:18 AM
    True but atleast with marriage youve already made a long term commitment to be together and an unwanted child can be tolerated lol..

    X
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #24 - May 08, 2014, 09:49 AM
    You still have abortus, condoms, pills and whatever exists now-a-days? And even without marriage you want to stay together (forever) (I suppose...). Ps, marriage makes it harder to leave each other (which can be good, and bad). The good is: you think a lot before leaving that person. The bad: it takes so much time and money to leave each other. Well, I suppose you always think before leaving a person you love... Marriage doesnt really have a meaning (anymore?). It is just a whole romantic thing around it.
    Dogs never bite me - just humans. ~ M. Monroe

    Religions seem to cause more grief than good.

    Exmuslim Chat
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #25 - May 09, 2014, 01:48 PM
    I actually did do the whole wait until the wedding night thing. If you speak to people in my community, some of them will try to add a little bonus point to waiting until you are married by saying that, if you wait, the wedding night will be so special and unforgettable and so on, and otherwise it will be a routine bore with no meaning.

    In some ways, I could sort of see the excitement part; my husband and I knew each other for a while and, until the wedding day, we had no idea what the other person looked like under our clothing (although he sometimes insists that a Saudi man can tell a lot about a woman's body/beauty even when she's veiled and covered  Roll Eyes) , so of course it was kind of a weird thrill to have waited so long. But the novelty is a one-time-only deal, and then you're married, and you've committed to a lifetime of sex with this person. Ishina's way is the way to go.

    Besides, if you have a boyfriend/lover/whatever, and after however long of being with the guy and sleeping with the guy you still want to marry him and spend your life with that one person, I think you have a better chance of having a satisfactory marriage than the sort of rush into it route that many Muslims are drawn into. I find that, in the situation where you're just suddenly engaged, you wind up doing a lot of work to try to trick yourself into loving that person and believing that he or she was definitely right for you, definitely best for you, no matter if he deserves it or not.
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #26 - May 09, 2014, 01:54 PM
    My grandparents married within six months of meeting each other for the first time. I once asked why and the reply was "Because we wanted to have sex." My grandma actually told me that until the day my granddad died they never stopped having sex. Grin

    My mum was pregnant with me outside of marriage. Grandma apparently didn't speak to her for six weeks after she found out. Mum had to get one of her brothers to go with her to say she was knocked up, didn't dare tell them on her own.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #27 - May 09, 2014, 02:26 PM
    I also waited till I was married to have "real" sex, and I regret it. Especially since it took me a couple of years to "figure things out", through unislamic means nonetheless (following Islamic guidelines would be a hinderance), in order to have a somewhat fulfilling sexlife. It really is stupid because it gives no value to the person or relationship. What if you discover you like certain things, and your partner doesn't? You're gonna be dissatisfied with your sexlife "forever", just because someone at one point in history got the idea that exploring your sexuality was "wrong".
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #28 - May 09, 2014, 02:42 PM
    Quote
    I also waited till I was married to have "real" sex

     

    Ok your gonna have to define what you mean by "real sex".  Grin
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • The topic of pre marital sex
     Reply #29 - May 09, 2014, 02:56 PM
    Why do I say stupid things I'll have to explain later that will undoubtedly be embarrassing for me Roll Eyes
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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