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 Topic: Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"

 (Read 8546 times)
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  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     OP - May 07, 2014, 08:39 PM

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2616576/Subway-removes-ham-pork-nearly-200-stores-strong-demand-Muslims-eat-Halal-meat.html

    So the Daily Fail published this article last week saying that 200 stores in the UK were replacing bacon and ham with halal Turkey alternatives, and now Pizza Express has been revealed as using halal chicken in all it's restaurants:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/10812696/Pizza-Express-reveals-halal-meat-used-in-all-chicken-dishes.html

    Personally, I don't see what the fuss is about - I eat halal and non-halal meat anyways (don't tell my mum :p) but I'm surprised at the number of people jumping on the bandwagon and saying that the UK is becoming "Islamified". It's clearly just to increase their business, and meat is meat!

    What are everyone's thoughts on the matter? Smiley
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #1 - May 07, 2014, 08:45 PM

    There are many people who would be horrified to eat food blessed in the name of allah as it would be eating food blessed by a false god. There are also people who view halal slaughter as unethical who may have been unknowingly eating it.

    Personally it really fucking pisses me off. I enjoyed bacon and ham Subway and I can't understand why they would just drop them instead of offering halal and non halal options. The fact options have just suddenly been taken away does not sit well with me. I seriously do not understand why they can't offer halal options along with the original.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #2 - May 07, 2014, 08:50 PM

    If I wasnt a veggie, I wouldnt give a damn about the meat, as long as it tastes good, it would be alright. And indeed, they should offer more options, instead of taking away options!

    Dogs never bite me - just humans. ~ M. Monroe

    Religions seem to cause more grief than good.

    Exmuslim Chat
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #3 - May 07, 2014, 08:51 PM

    It's not jumping on the bandwagon. It's a legitimate complaint. Halal slaughter is not as humane as standard slaughter. Removing choice from non-Muslims to benefit only Muslims is Islamisation. Bacon is superior to turkey. These are facts.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #4 - May 07, 2014, 08:54 PM

    There are many people who would be horrified to eat food blessed in the name of allah as it would be eating food blessed by a false god. There are also people who view halal slaughter as unethical who may have been unknowingly eating it.

    Personally it really fucking pisses me off. I enjoyed bacon and ham Subway and I can't understand why they would just drop them instead of offering halal and non halal options. The fact options have just suddenly been taken away does not sit well with me. I seriously do not understand why they can't offer halal options along with the original.


    I do agree, I think it's a bit excessive with the Subway stuff because turkey bacon isn't the same thing, they come from different sources and taste different. It is only 200 stores though, and they are most probably in Muslim majority areas. It's inconvenient for people who want real ham/bacon as they have to go elsewhere... So perhaps not a great move by Subway. But halal chicken doesn't taste any different to non-halal chicken, so I think the media is blowing the Pizza Express thing out of proportion.

    People are allowed to have a choice in what they eat, I have some friends who specifically choose not to eat halal food, and that's totally cool. But I feel that the outrage that the news has caused (more the Pizza Express one than Subway) is a bit unnecessary
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #5 - May 07, 2014, 08:57 PM

    It's not jumping on the bandwagon. It's a legitimate complaint. Halal slaughter is not as humane as standard slaughter. Removing choice from non-Muslims to benefit only Muslims is Islamisation. Bacon is superior to turkey. These are facts.


    I agree about the bacon/turkey issue - definitely not the same thing. But when I say "bandwagon" it's more that people wouldn't make such a fuss about it if it was not in the news, most people tend to just walk into restaurants even if they clearly state that they sell halal food and not really mind. There are some people who choose not to eat halal though and that's their choice Smiley
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #6 - May 07, 2014, 08:58 PM

    I do agree, I think it's a bit excessive with the Subway stuff because turkey bacon isn't the same thing, they come from different sources and taste different. It is only 200 stores though, and they are most probably in Muslim majority areas. It's inconvenient for people who want real ham/bacon as they have to go elsewhere... So perhaps not a great move by Subway. But halal chicken doesn't taste any different to non-halal chicken, so I think the media is blowing the Pizza Express thing out of proportion.

    People are allowed to have a choice in what they eat, I have some friends who specifically choose not to eat halal food, and that's totally cool. But I feel that the outrage that the news has caused (more the Pizza Express one than Subway) is a bit unnecessary

    I respectfully disagree. People have a right to know what they're eating. As Ishina said, it's a legitimate complaint. If they had said from the start "This is halal, we serve it, these are the halal options" it'd be a different matter. Likewise, if it were adding halal options instead of removing non halal options it would again be a different matter.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #7 - May 07, 2014, 09:01 PM

    Of course the media is blowing things out of proportion. That's what they do. But people shouldn't ignore the legitimate points underneath it all. That's just as counterproductive as blowing it out of proportion.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #8 - May 07, 2014, 09:01 PM

    I respectfully disagree. People have a right to know what they're eating. As Ishina said, it's a legitimate complaint. If they had said from the start £This is halal, we serve it, these are the halal options" it'd be a different matter. Likewise, if it were adding halal options instead of removing non halal options it would again be a different matter.


    True. People do have a right to know what they eat, apparently Pizza Express have it on their website that their chicken is halal but I never knew about it so obviously they never made it clear enough.

    Would be interesting to see if restaurants ever did offer halal and non halal options at the same time though - I don't think I've ever seen it :p maybe some will begin to do that now that it's being brought up
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #9 - May 07, 2014, 09:04 PM

    I can't eat halal food anyway. I'm allergic to magic spells.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #10 - May 07, 2014, 09:05 PM

     Cheesy

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #11 - May 07, 2014, 09:06 PM

    True. People do have a right to know what they eat, apparently Pizza Express have it on their website that their chicken is halal but I never knew about it so obviously they never made it clear enough.

    Would be interesting to see if restaurants ever did offer halal and non halal options at the same time though - I don't think I've ever seen it :p maybe some will begin to do that now that it's being brought up


    I know muslims would have a problem with this as they say their halaal meet can get contaminated with the bacon in the kitchen and they cant trust its 100% halaal. I've heard this before

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #12 - May 07, 2014, 09:08 PM

    I know muslims would have a problem with this as they say their halaal meet can get contaminated with the bacon in the kitchen and they cant trust its 100% halaal. I've heard this before


    So... basically there's no way of pleasing everyone

    I can't eat halal food anyway. I'm allergic to magic spells.


    LOL! That reminds me of Will Smith's line "I'm allergic to bullshit" - probably the  reason why I start coughing and sneezing every time someone at my uni tries to preach to me Tongue
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #13 - May 07, 2014, 09:09 PM

    I know muslims would have a problem with this as they say their halaal meet can get contaminated with the bacon in the kitchen and they cant trust its 100% halaal. I've heard this before

    There's always the vegetarian option. Problem solved.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #14 - May 08, 2014, 01:00 AM

    So I've just found these little gems over at the DM.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2622851/A-stealthy-takeover-Britains-supermarket-shelves.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2622830/Millions-eating-halal-food-without-knowing-How-big-brand-shops-restaurants-sell-ritually-slaughtered-meat-dont-label-it.html

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #15 - May 08, 2014, 01:15 AM

    Quote
    Bacon is superior to turkey. These are facts.


     Cheesy Awesome.
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #16 - May 08, 2014, 01:18 AM

    I guess some can use these articles to further the "alarmist" narrative, I don't even eat meat anymore but in the past I would not care if meat was halal/not-halal.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #17 - May 08, 2014, 02:42 AM

    I actually care very much what meat I eat. Halal goes against my morals. This isn't islamophobic, it's a fact. I do not want to give my money to people who will hang an animal upside down, slit it's throat and let it bleed to death when more humane methods exist. The idea that I have been unknowingly giving them my money angers me.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #18 - May 08, 2014, 03:36 AM

    I actually care very much what meat I eat. Halal goes against my morals. This isn't islamophobic, it's a fact. I do not want to give my money to people who will hang an animal upside down, slit it's throat and let it bleed to death when more humane methods exist. The idea that I have been unknowingly giving them my money angers me.


    That's fair enough and it's your opinion. You don't have to eat it and I agree that companies should label their meats... But what are your actual reasons? Is it just the method, as opposed to other "humane" methods? (I use the word "humane" but there is nothing humane about killing an animal for food, stunned or unstunned)
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #19 - May 08, 2014, 04:02 AM

    I don't really eat meat anymore but if i do it is halal only or local non halal farm produce but yep there arent many real islamic butchers these days, they break all the rules of slaughter, hanging them upside down or slaughtering infront of another animal is not halal, so i decided to remain mostly a veggie and will buy some meat occassionally, i think its gross to eat meat every day..   

    thing is though, my non muslim family buy halal sometimes and they claim it is much better quality meat than non halal.. I wonder why that if theres not suppose to be much difference these days on halal/non halal slaughter?
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #20 - May 08, 2014, 05:01 AM

    That's fair enough and it's your opinion. You don't have to eat it and I agree that companies should label their meats... But what are your actual reasons? Is it just the method, as opposed to other "humane" methods? (I use the word "humane" but there is nothing humane about killing an animal for food, stunned or unstunned)

    It's 6am and I haven't slept, so forgive me if this is a bit all over the place.

    By humane I mean as little suffering as possible, and I also include the quality of life the animals have had. For instance I love KFC chicken. Absolutely love it. Then one day I learned about the conditions the chickens are kept in, how they live their entire lives in a cage, in darkness, never in their lives seeing daylight. How the conditions are so bad they can, from what I recall, go insane, try to peck themselves to death, be stuck in cramped shacks with broken legs and wings, I could go on about it. It was absolutely horrific. I can say, without exaggeration, that it was mass torture. So for moral reasons I've never eaten at KFC since. I refused to fund them.

    On the opposite side of the spectrum there are people who specialise in giving animals meant for food good lives. The effects are incredible, if you look at the meat, you wouldn't believe it comes from the same animal. So yes, I consider quality of life as well as method of slaughter.

    I've always been curious about lobster, but I've never ate it for moral reasons. I remember hearing an urban myth that lobsters, when being boiled, will scream. Some animal rights activists would use it to justify views that boiling lobsters (and crabs as well) was cruel and shouldn't be allowed. There were a number of people who tried to debunk this. Chefs were asked about it and replied it wasn't true, they don't scream, which I wouldn't argue as I never believed it for one moment anyway. If there ever was a screaming sound I imagine it was stream escaping from the shell. They are marine animals. They have not evolved the ability to suck in air and scream. If they tried this underwater, they would drown. They cannot scream. But that doesn't mean they don't feel pain.

    Crustaceans are incredibly sensitive to even the slightest changes in water temperature. The idea they don't suffer is a fairy tale. If you've ever seen them being boiled alive, you can watch them thrash around and try to get out of the pot. To me this was horrific. However, I did last year come across a sea food restaurant (the name escapes me) which serves lobster and crab and has a device to kill them in an instant. Zap! Brain death. They're killed in an instant and then cooked. It's supposed to be pain free, but if there was pain, from what I understand it would of been so quick it wouldn't even really register. Now that place I would consider eating at.

    What makes something humane or not humane today is the options available for us. A number of imams (and rabbis as kosher involves the exact same slaughter ritual) have taken to saying that halal is all about animal welfare, that it's actually more humane than modern accepted methods. This is untrue. Vets have tested these claims and it's been proven false time and time again.

    But okay, let's say for arguments sake I accept what the imams say that the point of halal slaughter is animal welfare. Mo said (I forget if I read this in quran or hadith) when seeing someone about to slaughter an animal that it's better to use a sharp blade. I don't really have a problem with interpreting this as "It's better to use a really sharp blade for a good clean cut because it's kinder than using a dull blade which will take longer and cause more suffering for the animal". If I accept this argument then I can say that 1400 years ago this was the humane method, for the simple reason it was the most humane option available. Today it isn't. So halal becomes the immoral option for me personally (note these are limits I apply to myself, I don't insist others should have them forced on them) for the simple fact that we have more humane methods. 1400 years ago, a sharp blade was more humane than a dull blade. Today, stunning is more humane than slitting the throat and watching it bleed to death.

    Just as lab grown meat, if it becomes widely available, will be what I'd choose for moral reasons. If you haven't heard of it, google "Test tube burger London". It was meat grown in a lab, literally a burger grown from stem cells. I think it cost around a quarter of a million. If this does become widespread and easily available in my lifetime then I'll have to rethink my choice of meat because of a new option available to me. Just as now the question is which is better, halal meat or normal meat, in this hypothetical future the question will be which is better, normal meat or lab grown meat.

    It really is a stickler for me. I am genuinely disturbed I could of been giving money to halal providers against my knowledge. I won't even buy eggs unless they're free range.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #21 - May 08, 2014, 05:13 AM

    Same, and I've got to go to work now  Cry
    (WRT it being 6am & not sleeping)

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #22 - May 08, 2014, 05:19 AM

    Even this tired I had to edit typos. Cheesy

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #23 - May 08, 2014, 06:51 AM

     yes

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #24 - May 08, 2014, 07:15 AM

    I've taken suffering a step further and dont even like to see flowers in a vase lol they should be in the ground alive..

    Lobsters may not scream but they sure will be inside lol.. Anyways most chefs punture their brain before cooking..

    I think real halal slaughter is the most humane,  its the same kind of method that is used in the out backs of africa and other places, theyre supposed to slit the jugular vein not slit the throat and the animal must be unaware that it is about to be slaughtered and lose conscoiusness through loss of blood but most halal butchers definately wont follow this method and go for a quick lazy kill..  wouldnt stunning an anmial cause it distress.. ?  But anyway apparently most halal meat is stunned pre slaughter..   fishing is very cruel too but we dont really think much about it..     having a morning ramble i'm running late.. X
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #25 - May 08, 2014, 08:00 AM

    I don't particularly care about the whole humane/suffering side of the argument, really. It's because today's industrialized and capitalist "slaughter business" brings nothing but harm and suffering to the animals irregardles if you say allahu akbar and slit the animal's throat or not. I oppose replacing non-halal meat with halal meat out of principle. Not much freedom of religion, is there?

    In order to earn a couple of bucks more from Muslim customers, they are imposing religiously ritualistic slaughtered meat on non-religious and people from other faiths. You can't possibly defend that. Now, since most of us come from Muslim backgrounds, we might not care much about halal or not. But most people I've heard from do care, and are not OK with it. And even though I can eat halal, I want to chose that for myself when I want. We live in a (non-Muslim) secular democracy, halal meat should not be the default.

    This might not be "Islamization" (what isn't nowadays, right?), but it sure is symptomatic for todays multicultural hysteria. All rules, all regulations, all kinds of exceptions must be catered to Muslims. No other (minority) religious group today demands such special treatment. It's because they either integrate/assimilate or realize that you can't have the cake and it it and gtfo.  The problem is with Islam itself and its ideology which promotes separatism, Muslim supremacy and ideas that makes it literally impossible for Muslims to co-exist on EQUAL grounds with other groups while "staying true" to their religion.


    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #26 - May 08, 2014, 08:03 AM

    that's actually horrible news...why couldn't they just make 2 options?

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #27 - May 08, 2014, 08:05 AM

    Quote
    It's because today's industrialized and capitalist "slaughter business" brings nothing but harm and suffering to the animals irregardles if you say allahu akbar and slit the animal's throat or not. I oppose replacing non-halal meat with halal meat out of principle. Not much freedom of religion, is there?

    This summarises all my feelz! Before the halal craze happened there were videos of non halal slaughterhouses that gave me nightmares. The plot twist is weird as fuck!
    And yes it's the principle that bothers me too :/

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #28 - May 08, 2014, 08:39 AM

    I'd rather eat the organic meat sold in the supermarkets.. Halal/non halal its all the same these days.. : (  Hmmm i wonder what kosher is like, do they rear them correctly or are they all the same..
  • Thoughts on Subway and Pizza Express halal "revelations"
     Reply #29 - May 08, 2014, 08:41 AM

    Hopefully, lab grown meat will become a norm (and let's hope it tastes just as good), and then we don't really have to kill animals any-more. Then, vegetarians can finally see what they were missing.
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