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Theme Changer

 Topic: Secular Ramadan And Good Without God

 (Read 2584 times)
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  • Secular Ramadan And Good Without God
     OP - May 10, 2014, 06:26 PM

    Hi All  Smiley

    I hope you are all getting by fantastically  Afro

    My brain’s been in overdrive lately so much so that I can’t really sleep (its 4:00am here in Australia lol).
    Lately I’ve been deliberating over the great debate about whether one can truly lead a good moral existence without a belief in a deity. Of course I believe that you indeed can. And I also know that morality based on fear of punishment and/or hope for reward is not true morality at all. But I think remnants of indoctrination remain in me and in my weaker moments I think maybe one cannot be good or be happy without religion. I think this may be due to me not having really seen or known any healthy happy normal wholesome out and out atheists. The atheists I know or know of seem to have mental problems (especially depression) or just suck as human beings in general and live boring banal lifeless lives. Compared to how Muslims are-so full of zeal and a zest for life-it’s a contrast to say the least.....But then again maybe that’s just the leftover brainwashed bits of myself still talking.
     I remember disclosing my apostasy to one of my Muslim friends. Unfortunately her response hasn’t left my mind. She said simply in her usual sweet, soft but firm voice: “Just remember my words, you will only go downhill from here, Allah will make sure of that [cue the scary sadistic smug smile]”. Such a mean thing to say! And to think that it would give her such inner peace if I did indeed go downhill because her precious beliefs would be confirmed! Honestly, sometimes I think my Muslim friends and acquaintances are just patiently waiting around in earnest for me to crash and burn for having left Islam! How scary that they would breath a deep satisfactory sigh of relief if I did. Not that I have. I’m still basically the same person, only happier and freer and nicer even! I’m just so intent on proving to myself first (and by extension THEM) that I’m NOT going to all of a sudden descend into complete moral anarchy. I mean, I do actually have faith in myself that I wont. But it’s like, the religious faith that I had sorta took away my faith in myself as nouman ali khan likes saying repeatedly, “without taqwa what’s to stop you [from committing such and such crimes]?” But anyway, the quote “living well is the best revenge” is my mantra these days!

    On another note, it’s been about seven months since I left Islam, and at times I still find myself being drawn back into it, yearning to feel that contentment and peace. I’m even considering taking part in Ramadan this year, however ridiculous that sounds, as sawm and salah where my favourite ibadah. I’ve always been a ‘faster’-even as a teen when I had a serious disdain for religion. SO I thought maybe I could still do them for now, until I find alternatives, but just take part in them secularly lol. I’m sure that chanting Arabic (or anything?) and doing the movements of the prayer especially sujood are all meditative in themselves without paying any mind to what they actually mean. And fasting will sort of make me feel connected to humanity in a way, and during Ramadan because it will give me clear practical guidelines on how to go about fasting. I also know that it would make me more grateful for my circumstances and so on. I quite like abstaining from things. Again this is all without paying any mind to the religious aspect of it.
    I guess I sorta have that feeling like I wanna take the best of both worlds. Well, I wanna take the best out of everything I guess.

    I guess my main issues are, do you think it’s weird to still want to fast and pray in the Islamic fashion, “secularly” lol, as I consider doing them to be beneficial in some ways, and has anyone done that also? Am I merely at the bargaining stage of grief over my loss of faith? Lol.

    And how long will it take for me to fully break out of  beliefs such as 'people cannot be good without religion'? I hope it is not something ingrained in me forever! I’ve read so many convincing books about the subject one of my faves so far being The Science Of Good And Evil by Michael Shermer. I’m in the process of reading The Moral Landscape by Sam Harris and would really appreciate any other references to awesome books by credible people on this matter. Do you just think that the possibility of one losing all inhibition after leaving a religion just depends on the personality of the person?
     
    Anyway thank you for any of your thoughts  and apologies also because trust me I know how idiotic I sound I just have no one else to talk to about this stuff  thnkyu

    ♥♥♥ Emancipate Yourselves From Mental Slavery, None But Ourselves Can Free Our Minds ♥♥♥
  • Secular Ramadan And Good Without God
     Reply #1 - May 10, 2014, 09:11 PM

    the beauty is you have the choice to chose exactly what u want to do, fast, pray, drink, eat haram, listen to music, dance

    Whatever you chose to do, it is now completely your choice and yours alone

    Good luck on your journey  far away hug


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kFO2kP9rgk&list=PLBB01DA3912B506B5

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Secular Ramadan And Good Without God
     Reply #2 - May 10, 2014, 10:03 PM

    I don't think it's at all weird to want to take part in ramadan. If atheists can celebrate christmas and make it their own, why can't you do the same thing?

    How long it'll take you to shed certain beliefs really does depend on the person. I'm assuming you know full well you can be good without god. Just give it time. Most people, religious or not are decent,

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Secular Ramadan And Good Without God
     Reply #3 - May 11, 2014, 02:09 PM

    the beauty is you have the choice to chose exactly what u want to do, fast, pray, drink, eat haram, listen to music, dance

    Whatever you chose to do, it is now completely your choice and yours alone

    Good luck on your journey  far away hug



    that's right, i can do whatever i want can't i? geez! don't know why i didn't know that!

    thank you  far away hug

    ♥♥♥ Emancipate Yourselves From Mental Slavery, None But Ourselves Can Free Our Minds ♥♥♥
  • Secular Ramadan And Good Without God
     Reply #4 - May 11, 2014, 02:11 PM

    I don't think it's at all weird to want to take part in ramadan. If atheists can celebrate christmas and make it their own, why can't you do the same thing?

    How long it'll take you to shed certain beliefs really does depend on the person. I'm assuming you know full well you can be good without god. Just give it time. Most people, religious or not are decent,


     truetrue Smiley thank you, i especially love that, the majority are decent  Smiley

    ♥♥♥ Emancipate Yourselves From Mental Slavery, None But Ourselves Can Free Our Minds ♥♥♥
  • Secular Ramadan And Good Without God
     Reply #5 - May 11, 2014, 02:16 PM

     Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Secular Ramadan And Good Without God
     Reply #6 - July 09, 2014, 05:57 AM

    Can I just fast-forward to Eid celebrations? dance

    I enjoy the iftar meal because it brings the whole family together. I don't enjoy not having a drink during the whole scorching day (especially in places like Australia or the US with long hot summers) and the suhoor meal is a great way to get indigestion and not enough sleep. As for the spiritual aspects of Ramadan, yeah, try being spiritual when the only thing you can think of is a pitcher of ice-cold Coke Wink
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