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 Topic: 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL

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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1170 - September 28, 2014, 08:15 PM

    Why US policy in Syria will just make IS stronger

    The Middle East will be fucked for at least a few more decades lipsrsealed With the spillovers into other societies. Increasing radicalisation everywhere including in countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and China.

    Quote
    By Abdulhamid Qabbani
    Last updated: September 28, 2014

    Obama’s speech on 10 September authorizing air strikes against Islamic State (IS) inside Syria came as no surprise to many Syrians. Although the aim of the speech was to convince war-fatigued Americans to support yet a new Middle Eastern war, the televised speech probably met more weary audiences in the Middle East than it did at home. The violence is now taking place on their soil.

    US policy makers do not seem to grasp that announcing a war on Al-Qaeda’s breakaway (IS) will strengthen the group at least in the near to mid future. Particularly when the announcement comes by an American president which acts as a mobilizing factor for IS to attract global extremists for jihad against those they call the ‘modern crusaders’. Many will heed the call as they did in Iraq following the 2003 invasion. This suggests that the US has not fully comprehended the nature of its enemy let alone the long term impact such an approach will have on its image in the Middle East and on a fragile region.

    “I pledge if America goes to Syria, I will be the first to volunteer to fight the Americans,” reads a comment following the war announcement in a liberal Arabic news website. The comment got 105 likes.

    Indeed already 162 fighters, four of them are Australians, have joined the group in the past week thanks to Obama’s war strategy.

    THIS INDICATES that America’s current strategy will become a magnet attracting more jihadists to join IS or jihad in general. New IS fighters would be more than happy to join the holy war. In their beliefs “Al Shahadah,” Arabic for martyrdom, is something to be coveted.

    Obama has openly declared the war on IS in a similarly dramatic fashion as his predecessor President Bush announced the war on terror against Al-Qaeda 13 years ago. Many years of experience fighting this type of group has not helped American policy makers understand the right tactics to confront radical Islam.

    Violence which creates the absence of order, economic stability and governance combined with the existence of a greater enemy represented by the United States as a combatant is exactly what IS needs to grow more popular in the region and beyond. This will further add weight to the rhetoric IS uses to attract new recruits to defend Islam from ‘crusader attacks.’

    ULTIMATELY THE WAR MESSAGE the western-dominated coalition sends to the eastern end will strengthen support to the group which has been losing local sympathy lately.  Although IS might appear powerful following their advances in Iraq, the group’s popularity in Syria has been in sharp decline over the past year.

    Varied Free Syrian Army groups, Kurdish fighters including major conservative fighting groups like Islamic Front have been engaged in a war of attrition against IS. Moreover, Al Qaeda-linked Jabhat al-Nusra is a great foe of the group and a growing number of jihadists fighting with IS have already defected. Defectors either return home or shift allegiances due to increased dissatisfaction with the group’s brutal tactics. Other fighters shun away on ideological disagreement with the group. However, the coalition is acting as a force to bring together foes in consolidated ideological front. Al Qaeda will end up fighting this war along with its enemy IS.

    Now that the direct enemy has become the United States of America, this will not only attract new recruits but also more hostile governments or private funders. This in turn deflates one of the main strategic objectives the American president has announced: “More counter-terrorism efforts to cut off the group's funding and help stem the flow of fighters into the Middle East.”

    THE CURRENT TURMOIL and violence encompassing several Middle Eastern countries following the Arab Spring indicates not only the ill timing of a military intervention but also the misjudgment of the local and regional support for this action.  This is due mainly to the low morale in the region, particularly in Syria as a result of America’s prior mismanagement of that crisis.

    The founder and head of the Free Syrian Army, Colonel Riad Assaad, has already declared the group’s rejection of being part of the US coalition: “We will not collaborate with America in its intended war against IS,” he said. He added, “Its alliances know nothing, and did not even consult the Syrians, and therefore are not required (of Syrians) to implement what is asked of them.”

    Crucial actors in the region like Turkey and Saudi Arabia have had several disappointments as a result of the US floundering in Syria. This was exacerbated when Obama reversed his decision to bomb the Syrian regime following the chemical attack in Damascus in August last year. The continuous instability in Iraq combined with recent rapprochement with Iran adds up to a regional dissatisfaction with US policy. This also reflects the extent of current political polarization of the region the US has announced to get back to.

    The regional divide will affect the fortitude and will of the coalition that the US is building. It will also test the appetite, if any, for a genuine partnership with an administration that has failed key Middle East players.

    THE MIDDLE EAST is currently an ideal environment for a group like IS to flourish. If the environment helping the empowerment and growth of the groups are not dealt with, the fight will continue for years if not decades to come. The IS fighters have returned stronger occupying Iraq’s second largest city and vast swathes of Syria’s north and eastern lands after their assumed defeat in Iraq almost seven years ago. They also have now more dedicated European fighters.

    It is worth mentioning that the violence and recent instability in the Middle East was not initiated by IS – it was rather used for the group’s benefit and growth.

    The Middle East’s current turmoil has underlying causes. This includes mixed of sociopolitical, economic and sectarian dimensions. If local grievances, equal rights, freedom and social justice are not met by local leaders themselves, extremists will claim to bring them instead.

    After the protracted violence and destabilization of their eastern neighbour Iraq following 2003, Syrians are all but optimistic about the future of their country in the wake of American-led intervention.


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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1171 - September 28, 2014, 09:57 PM

    How f****** stupid are these people?!


    They do realise that the more people they get to join the cause, the less virgins there will be waiting up there for them later on.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1172 - September 28, 2014, 10:10 PM

    Quote
    The Middle East will be fucked for at least a few more decades lipsrsealed With the spillovers into other societies. Increasing radicalisation everywhere including in countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and China.

    I took this as a given anyway.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1173 - September 29, 2014, 09:53 AM

    Short report from BBC on Afghan Hezbi Islami (Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's murderous group which is know for its savagery).

    A Hezbi Islami commander tells that they get weapons from the army and police there and that they are considering joining up with IS.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TxHWxNnixs

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1174 - September 29, 2014, 07:09 PM

    -And erDOGan's Turkey - with the blood of Armenians, Greeks and then Kurds on their hands


    I have some issues with Erdogan but it would be unfair to blame him or today's Turkey for the Armenian genocide in 1915 or the Invasion of Cyprus in 1974.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1175 - September 29, 2014, 07:12 PM

    didnt think of that…this could be the case.


    Let's hope she is not on an ISIS hit-list.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1176 - September 29, 2014, 07:25 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVgSAniqfRs&feature=player_embedded

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1177 - September 29, 2014, 07:26 PM

    Hmm.. what ??   Let's Stop Treating the Quran as Infallible??    

    QURAN IS FALLIBLE??  who wrote that Nikolaj??

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Oh she?? Fathima Imra Nazeer?? She is what?? Writer, scientist and mom?  and no burkha?   finmad

    Well She is NOT  MUSLIM ..  finmad


    Tom Holland made a similar statement to that effect in The Times. Can't send the link cos its subscription only, but basically he was saying that muslims need to accept the some of mohammed's actions and claims about him in the quran and associated texts were fictitious.

    This is fine, but its also some of the true things that Mo did that need to be challenged as well.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1178 - September 29, 2014, 07:33 PM

    George Galloway has stated that going to war against the islamic state is the wrong way to go and will radicalise a whole new generation. If he were in charge during world war two the British would be speaking German right now, those of us who were allowed to live.

    So, it's official. We're going to war. I for one fully support it. Curious about other people's thoughts. Do you support going to war?


    Hmmm, with great reluctance and trepidation. Not sure an all out war is the best way to go but military action to degrade ISIS ability to cause violence I can see. If the only alternative is to let them take cities one by one, what other choices does anyone have, not just US/UK/etc We will be hated for it.

    Would love to hear some alternatives if anyone has any ideas.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1179 - September 29, 2014, 07:44 PM



    Galloway's 'solution' in Iraq, of arming the Kurds, (which is only a part of the solution) would still amount to the same thing, a war against Iraqis. It would just be a war by proxy.

    Also the Kurds may not be able to do it on their own. They may need air support. Even if its from UAE, or Saudis or regional states, the result would be the same, bombs dropped in Iraq.

    I agree that Saudis and the Turks etc need to deal with this but what if Turkey, and other regional powers don't commit? What if they back away? What if they have too many sympathisers?

    We need more details George.


    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1180 - September 29, 2014, 08:10 PM

    In any case, it was the Kurds  (who are fighting bravely) and the Iraqi administration who requested air strikes.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1181 - September 29, 2014, 08:57 PM

    If the only alternative is to let them take cities one by one, what other choices does anyone have, not just US/UK/etc We will be hated for it.


    Hated for it? Honestly I think if people in the West start complaining about a war on ISIL, that will be pushing the anti-war movement beyond what most people will bear.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1182 - September 29, 2014, 10:01 PM

    Quote
    I have some issues with Erdogan but it would be unfair to blame him or today's Turkey for the Armenian genocide in 1915 or the Invasion of Cyprus in 1974.


    I agree. That was one incoherent rant. Apologies.

    "Who really knows?
    Who will here proclaim it?
    Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
    The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
    Who then knows whence it has arisen?"- Rig Veda, 10:129-6
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1183 - September 29, 2014, 11:34 PM

    An incoherent rant, and a gracious apology. Chapeau.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1184 - September 30, 2014, 06:05 AM

    Fresh 60 minutes documentary on IS and the female fighters of YPJ in Rojava (the three cantons of Syrian Kurdistan).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DsVfcD9Ob0

    Rule no. 1: You don't fuck with the Kurds
    Rule no. 2: There is no rule no. 2.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1185 - September 30, 2014, 12:41 PM

    A critique of US policy from EA Worldview:

    http://eaworldview.com/2014/09/syria-analysis-us-lost-war-within-hours/
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1186 - September 30, 2014, 02:01 PM

    So it seems like the Kurds and the Iraqi army have IS on the run in Northern Iraq:

    IS Moves Forces to Syria from Northern Iraq

    Allegedly IS have gone door to door in Mosul to find able-bodied men for their fighting as they are running out.

    Kurds Retake Key Syrian Border Town
    Good news. Rabia is on the road from Syria to Mosul, cutting off a vital route for IS to the IS-held town.

    Also several villages south of Kirkuk have been retaken today by Kurdish forces. Which is interesting as it should be Iraqi government area.

    However this report is more worrying:

    Isil fighters advance to within six miles of Baghdad

    Quote
    By Ruth Sherlock, and Robert Tait, in Mursitpinar, and Carol Malouf11:21PM BST 29 Sep 2014

    The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) made fresh advances in both Syria and Iraq on Monday, in defiance of the escalating United States-led bombing campaign against the jihadist group.

    For almost two months now, Tomahawk missiles and F22 Raptor jet fighters have bombarded the bases, strategic assets and front-line positions of Isil jihadists.

    But the group’s encroachment on Baghdad is steadily progressing and it is close to seizing a key Kurdish village on the Syria-Turkey border.

    Isil gunmen were reported to be six miles away from some points of Baghdad, and were holding their ground at a front line on the major northern highway to Fallujah in Iraq. In Syria, its fighters were closing in on Kobane on the Turkish border.

    In the past year, Isil has grown to become the world’s best equipped militia group. Kobane came under a bombardment from the group, prompting fears from locals that the town might soon fall.

    At least 15 shells struck the central, western and eastern areas of Kobane. The assault came as the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, the UK-based monitoring group, reported Isil fighters advancing to within three miles of the east and south-east of the town.

    Kobane is defended by a volunteer force and has been bracing itself for a takeover for more than a week.

    On the Turkish side, ambulances raced to and from the border crossing at Mursitpinar, taking casualties to hospital. The Telegraph witnessed an aid convoy approaching the border, accompanied by Turkish armoured personnel carriers.

    Another missile was said to have landed in Turkish territory, close to where security forces fired tear gas at Kurdish protesters from Turkey who had been trying to cross the border to relieve their compatriots in Syria.

    With Kobane’s prospects looking increasingly dire, more than 20 Turkish tanks were stationed on a nearby hill. The attack came despite a barrage of US-led air strikes overnight on Isil positions around Kobane. Yasin Abo Raed, a media activist for the group, Syria Live Network, said a school that was being used as a prison in Manbij to the south-east of Kobane had been destroyed, but that there were not yet reports of how many people had been killed.

    An estimated 160,000 Syrian Kurds have flooded into Turkey since last weekend, amid tales of beheadings and other atrocities carried out by the jihadists as they have captured as many as 200 villages in the region.

    Mohammed Bakir, 56, a farmer with two sons fighting in the Kurdish units, described how jihadists killed 29 people and took 150 prisoner when they overran his village of Buban more than a week ago.

    “Some of them were children in the ninth grade at school, aged around 13 and 14,” he said. “They also killed my friend Ahmad. I called his number and a jihadist answered. I asked, 'Where’s Ahmad?’ He said, 'If you want him come here and pick up his head.’ ”

    The jihadists are also on the march in central Iraq. Isil gunmen have sought to control the town of Amariya al-Falluja, 25 miles east of Baghdad since the weekend, although their advance had stalled by Monday afternoon after air strikes on the area.

    Bombardment from the air has forced Isil to slow its attacks in some areas, and to retain a less obvious presence on the ground, but there is no indication that the group is seriously threatened.

    In some areas, the air strikes have helped foment local sympathy for the jihadist group.
    Sunni residents, who disagreed with the Shia-led government in Baghdad, were happy when Isil stormed their neighbourhoods, pushing back Shia militias and the Iraqi army, which many residents saw as a sectarian force.

    In Syria, too, there were indications this week that the bombing campaign was helping engender support for the jihadist group.

    One leader for Jabhat al-Nusra, the al-Qaeda affiliate in Syria who was a sworn enemy of Isil, confirmed to The Telegraph rumours that the two groups were talking about a reconciliation, after both were targeted by air strikes.


    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1187 - September 30, 2014, 03:29 PM

    Isil fighters advance to within six miles of Baghdad


    I don't understand. How do you "advance" an army when you have no air power? Surely the coalition air force would just bomb them into oblivion from the sky? Unless the entire IS army is hiding behind human shields as they advance, I don't see how it's possible...
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1188 - September 30, 2014, 03:35 PM

    The Iraqi army has been criticized for its heavy bombing leading to many civilian casualties so that may be.

    They have been close to Baghdad the whole time by the way. Fallujah is only 50 km away. But now they hold areas to the west, the north and the east of the city.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1189 - September 30, 2014, 05:07 PM

    RAF jets strike first IS targets in Iraq

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
     Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
     Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
     Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1190 - September 30, 2014, 07:44 PM

    I agree. That was one incoherent rant. Apologies.

    Rush of blood to the head?

    No need for apologies though, and not totally incoherent. That one was the only one that sprang out on me. Actually I think it was Ataturk in charge when the Armenian genocide was carried out. Just goes to show that even those we may admire in some ways, are villains in other ways.

    As far as I can understand it, the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974 was more complicated than just an Islam vs Christianity thing. In a world divided along communist/fascist political lines it started with  a  Greek right wing military coup and a Greek mini-coup of Cyprus by a rather nasty piece of work called Nikos Sampson, funded by his superior General Grivas who were trying to form a Union with Cyprus called Enosis. Archbishop Makarios of Cyprus was kicked out by Sampson so the Turks  invaded to defend their people against what they feared would be bloody and violent attacks on their citizens by the new incumbents.

    Sampson lasted 8 days I think 'in charge' of Cyprus, he was then kicked out, Makarios was restored to power, but Turkey didn't leave once the coup was over and they have been there ever since. There was even a Greek Terrorist organisation called EOKA B who had been conducting intimidation and bombing campaigns.


    Hopefully one day there will be a political solution. Until then, the island is divided, and it may be the best thing for the moment until a political settlement is arrived at. Lets hope progressive Turkish and Greek Cypriots can reach out to each other and rise above the political mess. This will NOT become like an Israel/Palestine situation as both Greeks and Turks are too clever for that, and religion plays a relatively negligible role, or is at least only a side issue.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1191 - September 30, 2014, 07:49 PM

    Fresh 60 minutes documentary on IS and the female fighters of YPJ in Rojava (the three cantons of Syrian Kurdistan).


    Rule no. 1: You don't fuck with the Kurds
    Rule no. 2: There is no rule no. 2.



    May I correct you, there IS a rule No.2.

    Rule no. 1: You don't fuck with the Kurds
    Rule no. 2: See rule no.1

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1192 - September 30, 2014, 08:14 PM

    Actually I think it was Ataturk in charge when the Armenian genocide was carried out. Just goes to show that even those we may admire in some ways, are villains in other ways.


    It was the "Young Turks" that were responsible for the Armenian Genocide, Ataturk was not one of them. So his hands are clean with regards to most of their killing. But I am not an expert on this and I know it was a very complicated situation, there were also genocides of Greek and Assyrian peoples in Turkey around this time, not entirely sure if some of these killings overlapped with Ataturk's rule.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1193 - September 30, 2014, 08:21 PM

    Yes you may be right.  I admit am not very clued up on this so thanks for correcting me, I only saw that he was in tenure at the time but didn't delve any further. Very lazy of me.

    If so then Ataturk is once again restored in my high estimation as a rationalist visionary.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1194 - September 30, 2014, 08:22 PM

    I have some issues with Erdogan but it would be unfair to blame him or today's Turkey for the Armenian genocide in 1915 or the Invasion of Cyprus in 1974.


    As far as I know, the Turkish government has still refused to acknowledge that a genocide occurred:

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/france-urges-turkey-recognize-armenian-genocide

  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1195 - September 30, 2014, 08:23 PM

    See this article which holds Ataturk responsible for the Pontic (Black Sea Greek) genocide:

    http://www.armenianweekly.com/2014/07/02/bedrosyan-genocide-pontic-greeks/

    I think it exaggerates the numbers killed rather than exiled but the genocide did happen.

    As Tonyt says he wasn't responsible for the Armenian genocide.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1196 - September 30, 2014, 08:30 PM

    Actually taking of Cyprus, the RAF raids on ISIS launched from Akrotiri have raised the possibility that they may be a target for ISIS attacks so they have stepped up security.

     http://famagusta-gazette.com/cyprus-should-not-panic-about-threat-of-isis-reprisals-government-p25819-69.htm

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1197 - September 30, 2014, 08:32 PM

    See this article which holds Ataturk responsible for the Pontic (Greek) genocide:

    http://www.armenianweekly.com/2014/07/02/bedrosyan-genocide-pontic-greeks/

    I think it exaggerates the numbers killed rather than exiled but the genocide did happen.

    As Tonyt says he wasn't responsible for the Armenian genocide.


    I stand corrected, un-informed assumptions on my part Embarrassed

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1198 - September 30, 2014, 08:40 PM

    There are probably better and more balanced articles than that by the way. I didn't look very hard. But basically Ataturk was a brutal nationalist leader responsible for ethnic cleansing on a massive scale.

    If anyone's interested I'd recommend this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Twice-Stranger-Expulsion-Forged-Modern/dp/1862079242

    Review: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/17/books/review/Cooper.t.html?_r=0

  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1199 - September 30, 2014, 08:56 PM

    Thank you for the lead, Zeca. I am of Greek Cypriot origin so has even more relevance. Poor little ol' Cyprus always seems the get caught in the crossfire between the two.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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