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 Topic: 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL

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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1290 - October 05, 2014, 08:52 PM

    Yup. They keep saying it though.

    So do non-Muslims, especially politicians. There's a lot of that going on over here at the moment. On the one hand I can see why: it is partially an attempt to keep racist bogans pacified by trying to stop them associating IS with Muslims per se, and partially an attempt to keep the Muslim community in general co-operative with the authorities, and partially an attempt to dissuade young and angry Muslims from supporting IS. Those are all understandable motives.

    Unfortunately, it's still all bullshit, and is only sweeping the real problem under the carpet. That being that if you hold up the Quran and Sunnah as the highest authorities, some people will believe you and act accordingly.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1291 - October 05, 2014, 09:13 PM

    yeah i understand why it happens too, because the backlash is real. but its not true.

    Good article on exactly this

    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/martin-bright-dont-just-write-british-jihadists-off-to-bad-islam-9772701.html


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1292 - October 05, 2014, 09:20 PM

    This paragraph nails it neatly:

    "As a first step let’s stop talking about Islam and Muslims in such infantile terms. It is patronising for British politicians to suggest they know the difference between a good and bad Muslim. Yes, Islam is, for many of its adherents, a religion of peace but like all religions it can also be used to justify violence. This is not a perversion of the religion because all faiths are open to interpretation and jihad is central to Islam."

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1293 - October 06, 2014, 02:54 AM

    So when are the Ex Muslims loading up to go fight ISIS? Can't expect the white western christians to fight your wars now
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1294 - October 06, 2014, 03:45 AM

    Lots of exmuslims probably are among those fighting Daesh. It's not just 'our fight', you genius. Daesh are against all people they deem not like them.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1295 - October 06, 2014, 09:50 AM

    So when are the Ex Muslims loading up to go fight ISIS? Can't expect the white western christians to fight your wars now


    Care to explain exactly how it is strictly OUR war?

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1296 - October 06, 2014, 10:30 AM

    So when are the Ex Muslims loading up to go fight ISIS? Can't expect the white western christians to fight your wars now


    this is a profoundly stupid comment


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1297 - October 06, 2014, 11:14 AM

    So when are the Ex Muslims loading up to go fight ISIS? Can't expect the white western christians to fight your wars now


    Our Kurdish comrades, esp. the brave women fighters.

    Wouldn't be surprised if there are many ex-muslims amongst the Kurdistan leftist militias.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1298 - October 06, 2014, 11:19 AM

    Quote
    Western blind spot: the Kurds' war against Islamic State in Syria
    Derek Wall

    6th October 2014

     

    A victory for the Kurds and their allies in Syria would be a victory for all who seek a future that is dictated neither by fundamentalists nor imperialists, writes Derek Wall. Is that why NATO members' have taken no effective action to help Syria's Kurds resist Islamic State, even as 160,000 refugees are trapped at the Turkish border?

    However loud the calls are to oppose ISIS, the YPG who so far have been the most effective opponents of jihadism are largely ignored.

    The current narrative from Cameron and Obama is simple: the head-chopping Islamic State is a threat to all of humanity, so western forces need to return to the Middle East.

    Yet this narrative is far from supported by the empirical evidence. Non-existent weapons of mass destruction and non-existent Islamic fundamentalist jihadists were used to justify the invasion of Iraq in 2003 by George Bush and Tony Blair.

    Iraq was transformed from secular totalitarianism to chaos: in turn, chaos and opposition to occupation seeded a jihadist movement.

    Western support for opponents of Assad in Syria gave the so-called 'Islamic State' an opportunity to take territory. ISIS was able to seize huge quantities of heavy weaponry supplied by the USA and its allies.

    Thus, if US intervention has created or at least massively accelerated the growth of a monster, critics argue that more intervention will no doubt provide the Islamic State with more weapons, more support and more chaos on which to thrive.

    Islamic State's most successful enemy is Turkey's enemy

    Another reason for doubting the narrative is the fact that the most successful opponents of ISIS are not only unsupported by the west but are effectively at war with a NATO ally.

    If the 'war on terror' was real, the words 'Kobane', 'Rojava' and 'YPG' would be on our TV screens more often than a marriage date with George Clooney. In fact, few of us have much knowledge of the forgotten war in the Middle East. This is a war that ISIS, up until a few days ago, was losing.

    But a NATO country has joined to help defeat not the jihadist beheaders, but their most feared opponents.

    As I write, the city of Kobane in the mostly Kurdish city in northern Syria is under threat from ISIS, who have laid siege to the city for several weeks, and media reports today suggest the city is about to fall.

    ISIS forces from all over the region - equipped with tanks and missiles stolen from Iraqi forces supplied by Qatar and the USA - have sustained a huge attack on this city on the border of Turkey.

    You won't hear about Kobane on much of the media and not so far in speeches from Obama and Cameron. These are the Kurds the west does not support, and mentioning their very existence is virtually an existential threat.

    In Rojava, religious pluralism is strongly promoted

    The Kurds, who are said to be the largest stateless nation and are spread across Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq, have been fighting for autonomy for decades. The Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in Turkey saw their leader Ocalan captured in 1999. He remains in prison.

    In Syria, as a result of the civil war, the Kurds have created an autonomous self-governing republic, made up of three cantons, one of which is Kobane. The three cantons are known collectively as Rojava [western Kurdistan]. For several years the Rojavans have been fighting and beating ISIS and other jihadists like the Al Nusra front.

    When ISIS threatened thousands of Yazidi in Iraq, killing many and forcing others into apparently slavery, this triggered international outrage. It is largely forgotten that the People's Protection Units (YPG), the community self-defence force from Rojava, crossed to Mount Sinjar and rescued many Yazidis.

    While Rojava is known as a Kurdish territory, political and religious pluralism is strongly promoted. Syriac Christian militias are allied with the YPG, which also draws in Arab and Armenian fighters. Most Kurds are Sunni Muslims, although others are Yazidis.

    A unique democratic experiment is being crushed with NATO weapons

    The Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD) is usually seen as a sister party of the PKK but there are many other Kurdish and non Kurdish political parties in Rojava. The PKK affiliated party advocates political diversity, feminism and self-governance.

    Originally a Marxist-Leninist organisation, remarkably the PKK sees itself as an anarchist political organisation inspired by the ideas of the American social ecologist and green anarchist, Murray Bookchin!

    An anarchist from North London who visited Rojava noted that they are carrying out an almost unique democratic experiment:

    "We went to a meeting of one the communes based in the neighborhood of Cornish in the town of Qamishlo. There were 16 to 17 people in the meeting. The majority of them were young women. We engaged in a deep conversation about their activities and their tasks.

    "They told us that in their neighborhood they have 10 Communes and the membership of each Commune is 16 people. They told us 'We act in the same way as community workers including meeting people, attending the weekly meetings, checking any problems in the places we are based, protecting people in the community and sorting out their problems, collecting the rubbish in the area, protecting the environment and attending the biggest meeting to report back about what happened in the last week.'

    "In response to one of my questions, they confirmed that nobody, including any of the political parties, intervenes in their decision making and that they make all the decisions collectively."

    Others have termed Rojava the Chiapas of the Middle East, in reference to the Zapatistas of Mexico.

    True freedom and ecological balance

    The Rojava Charter, a kind of constitution, is a remarkable document. It states:

    "We the peoples of the democratic self-administration areas; Kurds, Arabs, Assyrians (Assyrian Chaldeans, Arameans), Turkmen, Armenians, and Chechens, by our free will, announce this to ensure justice, freedom, democracy, and the rights of women and children in accordance with the principles of ecological balance, freedom of religions and beliefs, and equality without discrimination on the basis of race, religion, creed, doctrine or gender, to achieve the political and moral fabric of a democratic society in order to function with mutual understanding and coexistence within diversity and respect for the principle of self-determination and self-defense of the peoples ...

    "The autonomous areas of the democratic self-administration do not recognize the concept of the nation state and the state based on the grounds of military power, religion, and centralism."

    The feminist part of their ideology reflects a strong commitment: in fact 30% of YPG members are women, all-woman fighting units (YPJ), are common, and women share the highest military rank with men.

    The threat of a good example?

    Rojava offers the threat of a good example. A self-governing anarchist society with ecological aspirations may or may not be the utopia it sounds like, however the west has little time for alternatives to capitalism that might just work. The allies of the US and UK tell us all we need to know about their war on terror.

    These allies include Saudi Arabia, which beheads citizens on a regular basis, outlaws LGBT people, doesn't allow women to drive and like ISIS, does not tolerate churches, Shia mosques or the advocacy of religions other than the most constrained form of Islam.

    Like Saudi Arabia, Qatar has funded jihadists, and then we come to Bahrain which has been heavily repressing their population.

    The roll call of allies is a list of shame, which includes some of the most repressive states on our planet. It is an oil-soaked catalogue of monsters. The Kurds currently armed and supported by the US in Iraq belong to a rival political organisation to the PYD.

    The suspicion is that Islamic State attacks, which were moving in on the shopping malls and US centres in Iraqi Kurdistan, prompted the US intervention. For, however loud the calls are to oppose ISIS, the YPG who so far have been the most effective opponents of jihadism are largely ignored.

    A NATO member's military and economic links with Islamic State

    Turkey, another NATO ally, has been accused of supporting ISIS, as part of its longstanding conflict with the Kurds. Turkey has refused to fight ISIS, their border has been porous to jihadists wishing to join ISIS and the recent release of over 49 Turkish hostages by ISIS has been met with a suggestion of a deal between Turkey and the so-called Islamic State.

    Turkey has been strongly repressing the Kurds, and has argued for a buffer zone, which would essentially remove Rojava and replace it with Turkish troops. Turkey has also attempted to prevent thousands of Kurds from crossing the border to fight ISIS as they besiege Kobane.

    It has been alleged that $800 million of oil has been sold by ISIS in Turkey. There is also evidence that Turkish troops have been training ISIS.

    ISIS are currently concentrating their forces against their most effective opponents, the YPG and its independent democratic cause. In Kobane, the forces of ISIS terror, against which the west is supposedly at war, are at the door and massively outgun the besieged Kurds, thanks to the help of the west and its allies.

    The dark ironies of geopolitics cannot be made clearer: ISIS is armed with weapons captured from the US, who flooded the region with weapons, while Turkey, a NATO member, is further strengthening the terrorism against which NATO has declared war, by repressing a democratic movement fighting indigenously against ISIS.

    There have been reports of US attacks on ISIS positions near Kobane, but there is some debate as to whether these have been effective. Meryem Kobanê, Commander of the YPJ (Women's Protection Units) in Kobane, noted on Saturday, September 27, that the strikes missed the ISIS forces.

    The 'war on Islamic terror' is one of rhetoric, not reality

    The US and UK intervention has brought nothing but misery to the Middle East. The silence from Obama and Cameron regarding Turkey's repression of the Kurds, shows that the 'war on terror' is more about the rhetoric than reality.

    All of us who want to see societies based on pluralism, self-governance, respect for minorities and empowerment of women, need to confront our elected leaders over their failure to challenge Turkish opposition to Rojava.

    A victory for the Kurds and their allies in Rojava is a victory for all who want a future that is dictated neither by fundamentalists nor imperialists.


    http://tinyurl.com/mxrm2hw
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1299 - October 06, 2014, 11:53 AM

    I find it funny how muslims who have been waxing lyrical about how great Caliphates are, aren't flocking in their masses to the new Caliphate. When your you living in your indulgent comfortable superficial western lifestyle you end up not wanting to pledge allegiance to your ummah, so ample excuses are digged out.

    For so long most muslims have craved the return of the Caliphate, now they have it they don't wanna do Hijra as Sunnah says and they continue to live in filthy immoral Kuffar lands.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1300 - October 06, 2014, 01:40 PM

    The mentality isn't hard to grasp. If you don't like the islamic state, it's not a real caliphate. If you do like it, it is a real caliphate. Simple.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1301 - October 06, 2014, 02:09 PM

    Quote
    Islamic State flags flying in Kurdish Syrian town of Kobani
    Isis forces reported to have planted their banner on top of strategic hill overlooking Kobani and on building in east of town

    Two flags of Islamic State (Isis) jihadis besieging the Syrian town of Kobani were flying on the eastern side of the town, an AFP photographer reported on Monday.

    The flags, black with the Arabic lettering of the group, were seen by the photographer from the Turkish side of the border.

    One was flying on top of a building on the eastern side of Kobani. Another was seen being planted by a man on the crest of a hill overlooking the eastern edge of the town.

    Idris Nahsen, a local official, told AFP by telephone he could not confirm whether IS jihadis were within parts of the town.

    Kurdish officials have said in the last days that Isis militants were advancing to within several hundred metres of the city but were meeting with tough resistance from Kurdish fighters.


    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/06/islamic-state-flags-reported-flying-in-kurdish-syrian-town-kobani

    Kurdish officials and journalists in Kobane believe they can defeat them in Kobane due to Daesh being not good in urban fighting methodology.

    Turkish tanks are also lining up on the border, lots of tanks.

  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1302 - October 06, 2014, 02:25 PM

    This raises an interesting point. Many Muslims like to claim that "IS has nothing to do with Islam". Logically then, all of those Muslims (and anyone else who wants to say similar things) would also have to claim that KSA and indeed Salafism itself have nothing to do with Islam. That's going to be a rather difficult position to support.

    I also can't help wondering what all the Muslims who liked to brush aside criticism of sharia by saying the punishments would only be applied "in an Islamic state" are saying now that one has arisen and is applying those punishments as it sees fit. Yes, I know, they'll just say it's a Western conspiracy or something. Roll Eyes



    holy smokes......Im having this conversation right now with a crazy muslim family member of mine.....he said the following in response to me pointing out Saudi Araba and why he is not condemning them:

    (copy pasted)

    "Saudi Arabia is a very poor example of the Islamic faith. Not allowing women to drive or give women equal rights? The Saudi's (in their heads) may think they have a God given right to set a standard for Islam...but they are not recognized as authority by the majority of the Islamic World. Not to mention, this is the same country that accepts Wahabism (which is an extreme & minority sect of Islam).

    The government of Saudi Arabia & many of the other "Muslim Countries" in the above discussion are ruled by some of the most disgusting, perverted & corrupt leaderships in the world. Wahabism is as recent as 200 years old. So what if Mecca is in Saudi Arabia? Mecca existed before the corruption/ cancer that is Saudi Arabia today!

    Again, Saudi Arabia is not looked as the pinnacle of the Islamic world amongst Muslims today. Wahibism is the source of many extremist views of Islam today. And if you don't believe me ask any educated Muslim what are they're thoughts on the Saudi's......"


    You nailed it to a T....this guy is a big conspiracy theorist too....he really thinks that there is no real link between Islam and modern terror.....he is always posting government conspiracies and he thinks poor old little Islam is just being slandered by the jews.... Cry piggy



    The more you try and obtain nirvana, the further you are from it.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1303 - October 06, 2014, 02:37 PM

    Shown him any quotes from Islamic sources backing up the POV Islam has got something to do with it?
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1304 - October 06, 2014, 03:32 PM

    Quote
    Solidarity with Kobane!

    Firat”, the Kurdish News agency reported fierce hand-to-hand fighting, on Mistenur Hill, outside Kobane Northern Syria last night. The Hill is seen as crucial to the defence of the town, from where the Kurdish militia has fought off ISIS gangs for 3 weeks.

    74 ISIS members were reported killed overnight, in exchange for 15 YPG-YPJ (members of the Kurdish Peoples and Women’s Protection Units).

    During the fighting, YPJ Crew Commander Dilar Gencxemîs (codename “Arîn Mîrkan”) carried out a suicide attack which blew up a dozen ISIS thugs. Given that the fate of captured Kurdish women fighters is likely to be rape and/or beheading, her actions were very understandable.

    The Kurdish leadership in Northern Syria has been warning of an impending massacre.
    Saleh Muslim, co-President of the Democratic Union Party (PYD) said:-

    “The world remains silent, as if in collaboration..... Everything is taking place in front of them, but they do nothing. We want weapons, but they won’t even sell them to us.”

    The US bombing raids on ISIS forces near Kobane have been totally ineffective.

    Meanwhile, Turkish troops surrounding the town to the north have prevented Kurds from aiding their relatives across the Syrian border. They have now started to target the press and yesterday Turkish troops fired tear gas directly into a BBC crew’s car.

    In talks with the PYD at the weekend, the Turkish government insisted that the Syrian Kurds distance themselves from Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) before they would provide any assistance to Kobane.

    Turkey wants the PYD to form an alliance with the Syrian rebels it backs, to overthrow Bashar al Assad.
    A few days ago, Turkish President Erdogan commented that the PPK and ISIS were “the same”.

    But while the PKK is still banned in Turkey and its leader remains in prison, there have been numerous reports of Turkish collusion with ISIS. Almost all of the ISIS international supporters entered Syria through Turkey, many receive medical treatment there and even go on shopping trips to Turkish malls.

    The PKK which has fought a 30 year war for political Autonomy in Turkey has warned its peace process with the Turkish government will be over if Kobane is allowed to fall.

    The PYD has demanded heavy weapons for the Kurdish defence forces in Kobane, but wants the Turkish troops to stay out. Heavy fighting continued all Monday Morning.

    from Suffolk Peoples Assembly
    Against Austerity! For a Living Wage!
    Defend the NHS! Defend Education!


    https://www.facebook.com/IpswichPeoplesAssembly/posts/735153113219270
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1305 - October 06, 2014, 03:57 PM

    Surprised noone's mentioned that this conflict is really between US, Chinese and Russian capital.

    If proof was ever needed.
    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/10/06/pers-o06.html
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1306 - October 06, 2014, 04:17 PM

    Thanks Schizo.

    US fucking around in an already fucked up situation!

    Would help if the arms manufacturing was in the hands of the Govt and not big arms companies. If you can't sell it then there is less room for pushing for wars.

    Turkey also needs to stop being so proud and allow for a Kurdish independence referendum, without this the situation will not be solved on a more permanent basis.

    R.I.P all you nameless martyrs in the Warzone there.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1307 - October 06, 2014, 08:01 PM

    This article is very much a mixed bag and severely lacking in a properly materialistic analysis but it's still worth a read:
    http://reviews.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/19485/how-not-to-understand-isis

    Indeed, I think the dichotomy between salafism and freedom is an erroneous one. More broadly we should be looking at the market mechanisms of ISIS that have inevitably resulted in the gradual construction of an etatist (state fascist) economy.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1308 - October 06, 2014, 08:05 PM

    Lots of exmuslims probably are among those fighting Daesh. It's not just 'our fight', you genius. Daesh are against all people they deem not like them.


    So where was the regular Muslims when ISIS was killing everyone else in Syria? All of a sudden, now that ISIS has started attacking mainstream Muslims, they start coming out against ISIS.  Before that they could give a two shits if Atheists were dying or not.


    How is that these ISIS scums can't get Muslims all over the west to come fight for them, but the Ex Muslim Atheists in the middle east can't get any Ex Muslim Atheists from the west to come help them?

    Bunch of idealistic Atheists bloggers vs combat hardened Muslims jihadists. The Ex Muslims are fucked.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1309 - October 06, 2014, 08:21 PM

    How is that these ISIS scums can't get Muslims all over the west to come fight for them, but the Ex Muslim Atheists in the middle east can't get any Ex Muslim Atheists from the west to come help them?


    Wow bro. You've obviously uncovered a vast and sinister conspiracy. You should patent that.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1310 - October 06, 2014, 08:27 PM

    So where was the regular Muslims when ISIS was killing everyone else in Syria? All of a sudden, now that ISIS has started attacking mainstream Muslims, they start coming out against ISIS.  Before that they could give a two shits if Atheists were dying or not.


    How is that these ISIS scums can't get Muslims all over the west to come fight for them, but the Ex Muslim Atheists in the middle east can't get any Ex Muslim Atheists from the west to come help them?

    Bunch of idealistic Atheists bloggers vs combat hardened Muslims jihadists. The Ex Muslims are fucked.


    Well, need to support the Kurds then, especially the socialist organisations despite their issues as well. Socialists are anti-clericalists ergo atheistic and with the other Kurdish bodies as a secularising influence would be good to provide a counter-culture to ISIS.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1311 - October 06, 2014, 08:38 PM

    My guess is everyone else who is supposedly fighting ISIS (the great new Coalition of the Willing) wants the Kurds to go under to remove an irritant from their idea of what the region should be.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1312 - October 06, 2014, 08:43 PM

    Yup!

    But a region based on what? Thin air? I don't agree with nationalism, but at least it joins people cohesively.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1313 - October 06, 2014, 08:48 PM

    Based on current borders, but with certain regimes replaced with ones more amenable to the coalition's aims. Of course, the problem there is that the coalition is composed of a bunch of back-stabbing bastards who all have their own agendas, and those agendas don't include giving a shit about the Kurds.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1314 - October 06, 2014, 08:49 PM

    The oppressed have a right to self-determination etc... Not all nationalisms are the same.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1315 - October 06, 2014, 08:49 PM

    Yup, so it will all collapse again in 10 years.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1316 - October 06, 2014, 08:50 PM

    The oppressed have a right to self-determination etc... Not all nationalisms are the same.


    True, just don't like the us vs. them form of nationalism.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1317 - October 06, 2014, 08:53 PM

    Yeah, which is generally why I distinguish between self-determination and ethnic nationalism proper.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1318 - October 06, 2014, 08:54 PM

    Yup, so it will all collapse again in 10 years.

    Quite likely, IMO.

    Last night on the 7:30 Report (one of the best current affairs shows here) they had an awesome video short of the succession of US presidents who have given speeches about authorising yet another war in Iraq. Old CIA Bush, Clinton, Young Dubya Bush, Obama. By the end of that short vid it was impossible to not think "Poor fucking Iraq".

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1319 - October 06, 2014, 08:56 PM

    One problem is that AFAICT, the whole area is basically a seething hotbed of tribal and religious/sectarian hatreds that go back centuries and a fervently clung to by far too many people. This is, in itself, not the West's fault. It's totally down to the people who live in the area and hold those views of each other. The West thinks it can do something about it, but realistically it seems to be able to do fuck all.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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