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Theme Changer

 Topic: 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL

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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1350 - October 08, 2014, 05:16 PM

    Wont look at the reddit but jeez, the head in sand nature of people.

    "Noo it has nothing to do with Islam and the Qu'ran and other literature!"

    ^^^ You mad mate?
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1351 - October 08, 2014, 05:58 PM

    Untangling the Turkish-Kurdish-IS debacle
    Quote
    The Islamic State is advancing on the Kurdish city of Kobane in northern Syria.  Turkish Kurds and Kurdish refugees still huddled around the boarder are rioting.  The take away of most international media observers can be paraphrased as “the Kurds are unhappy because Turkey is purposely letting Kobane fall.”  As with most Turkish politics, the truth is much more complex.

    Turkey is genuinely stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to Kobane.  Both the Syrian Kurdish leadership and the Assad government have flatly said that they would consider a Turkish military incursion into Syria a hostile act (although the position of the Kurdish regional government may be changing). About half of Turkish citizens are opposed to intervening against IS.  Erdogan and Davutoglu are absolutely right when they insist that a half-hearted air campaign will never succeed in fully defeating IS and that a multi-lateral strategy is need.  None of these issues of course excuses Erdogan’s equating the PKK (which the Turkish government has been in peace talks with for the year and half) with IS (which kidnapped dozens of Turkish citizens and has called Erdogan in infidel).  Nor does it justify tear gassing Syrian Kurds trying to cross back into the Kobane region to help defend the city. However, it does explain why Turkey has knowingly given the US and the Syrian Kurds an impossible to fulfill set of demands that would need to be met before it would agree military cooperation against IS.  This is also why Turkey will continue to urge the US to use airstrikes on IS and lash out against the US for not doing enough to stop IS, while simultaneously blocking the usage of the US airbase in Turkey for such a purpose.

    Kurds are indeed frustrated with both the US and Turkey for what they believe is the former’s unwillingness to provide sufficient air support for Kobane and the later’s all but open support of IS.  Both of these accusations are oversimplifications, but the tense situation right now means perception matters more than the truth.  The political dynamics between Turkey, its Kurdish citizens, its Kurdish Syrian refugees and the Syrian Kurdish regional government complicates issues further.  The Syrian Kurdish government does not want its previous autonomy disrupted by a partnership with or military intervention by Turkey.  As Harold Doornbos, a reporter currently on the Turkish-Syrian border tweeted yesterday “There are some misconceptions, especially among Western audiences, regarding Turkey ‘doing nothing’ and ‘just watching how Kobane dies’ [sic]… Kurds [are] angry at Turkey NOT b[ecause] Turkish army does not intervene in Kobane, but b[ecause] Turkey blocks weapons, fighters from reaching Kobane.”  Kurds in both Turkey and Syria are upset at what they perceive, accurately, as Turkey’s double standard when it comes to Syrian fighters.  After letting Islamists cross the border essentially unimpeded for years, Turkey is now denying this same privilege to Kurds.  Granted the greater border security has much to do with the rise of IS, but Turkey’s decision to prevent unarmed young Kurds, both Syrian and Turkish, from traveling to Kobane since this battle started has led many Kurds to perceive Turkey’s new border security as more anti-Kurdish than anti-IS.

    Kurds began protesting in cities around Turkey and around the world Monday and on Tuesday night in Turkey these protests morphed into riots.  Kobane is the spark, but frustration has been building for some time among Turkey’s Kurds.  The Turkish-Kurdish peace talks have been stalled longer than they have been productive.  The AKP government gave Turkey’s Kurds hope that they would finally enjoy equal cultural rights with Turks, only to have these hopes met halfway at best and indefinitely delayed at worst.  Turkey was forewarned multiple times by Kurdish leaders that an IS victory in Kobane would lead to renewed Kurdish violence.  Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the situation should have been able to see these riots coming.  The Turkish government should have also been able to predict that Kurdish protests, peaceful or not, would be met be counter-protesters from Turkey’s ultra-nationalist and extreme fundamentalist groups, all of which are known for their involvement in past violence.  Whether out of malicious intent or simple stupidity (and again, Kurds will perceive it as malicious) the Turkish government seems not to have taken any steps to prevent or assuage the violence.  Many police were off duty due to the holiday over the weekend and were only recalled once the violence peaked.  Once again, citizens have reportedly been killed and seriously injured by police actions.  Perhaps more disturbingly, the police failed to prevent multiple deadly clashes between Kurdish citizen and political groups and one or more extremest political groups.  Reports indicate at least 14 dead (update: 18) most the victims of the inter-group clashes.

    Some Turkey watchers have raised concerns that we may be seeing a return to the bad old days in Turkey- armed clashes between rival political groups, renewed PKK insurgency and government emergency rule.  It is too early to make any solid predictions, but the events of the last few days have put the gains that Turkey has made during the AKP decade under serious threat, even more so than its recent slip toward authoritarianism.  A return to unpredictable violence does not just threaten Turkey’s democratic institutions, but its economic and growth and social stability, the foundation on which the AKP has built its power.  It is the best interest of all groups involved, the Kurds, the AKP and the Turkish nation at large for the Turkish government to find a way to deescalate this explosive situation.  The first step is to address it’s pro-IS reputation.  The Turkish government must stop simply saying that it does not support IS and find ways to demonstrate this stance, such as providing non-military aid and allowing Kurds to cross into Kobane to help defend  the city.  The government must also clarify its position on the PKK.  As long as the PKK is engaging in military actions against the Turkish government, it makes no sense for the government to maintain that it is equivalent to IS.  If the PKK and its members have no chance of being rehabilitated, what motivation do they have to hold the ceasefire?  Of course, an Erdogan apology for this statement is out of the question, but Davutoglu or other government officials need to find a way to modify or qualify this comparison.  Only if Turkey’s Kurds stop perceiving the Turkish government as the enemy, and vice versa, will there be any hope for a return to peace and stability.

  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1352 - October 08, 2014, 07:02 PM

    Seriously we need to stop calling Islamic State "Isis". Isis is a goddess who we should all bow down too and worship and get on our knees and pray too endlessly.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1353 - October 08, 2014, 08:35 PM

    Time to boot Turkey from NATO?


    Turkey was only invited due to Russia. Now it is just more or less a gas stations for Nato.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1354 - October 08, 2014, 10:52 PM

    "Noo it has nothing to do with Islam and the Qu'ran and other literature!"

    I had this very conversation with my intelligent, educated, liberal sister. There was no getting my point across, and it was a fairly mild point I was trying to make.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1355 - October 08, 2014, 10:57 PM

    So I assume she's brushed up on her theology then?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1356 - October 08, 2014, 10:59 PM

    I had this very conversation with my intelligent, educated, liberal sister. There was no getting my point across, and it was a fairly mild point I was trying to make.


    It makes you want to banghead doesn't it?

    So I assume she's brushed up on her theology then?


    I'm sure she has a degree and everything  Tongue!
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1357 - October 08, 2014, 11:17 PM

    "The problem is not in the source material. The problem is education."

    So runs the educated person's argument.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1358 - October 08, 2014, 11:23 PM

    "The problem is not in the source material. The problem is education."

    So runs the educated person's argument.


    That is akin to saying Nazism in Mein Kampf is not anti-semitic, it is all down to interpretation and education!
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1359 - October 08, 2014, 11:25 PM

    If you keep telling people that the source material is the word of god and that all of it must be followed whether you like it or not, or even understand it, some of them are going to believe exactly that.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1360 - October 09, 2014, 05:07 AM

    Representative Wassim Doureihi of those guys who inspired and now are envious of the Islamic State talks to Australian Broadcasting Corporation Lateline's Emma Alberici

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZGsP9-GSt4

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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1361 - October 09, 2014, 05:47 AM


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1362 - October 09, 2014, 06:03 AM

    Cheesy

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1363 - October 09, 2014, 07:31 AM

    Wow bro. You've obviously uncovered a vast and sinister conspiracy. You should patent that.


    ahhhh the liberal idealists  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

    Don't worry, I'll still protect you against ISIS as I will never leave a Ex Muslim behind
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1364 - October 09, 2014, 08:06 AM

    Representative Wassim Doureihi of those guys who inspired and now are envious of the Islamic State talks to Australian Broadcasting Corporation Lateline's Emma Alberici

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZGsP9-GSt4


    Yep, we have fuckwits here too. yes

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1365 - October 09, 2014, 08:17 AM

    Quote
    Representative Wassim Doureihi of those guys who inspired and now are envious of the Islamic State talks to Australian Broadcasting Corporation Lateline's Emma Alberici

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZGsP9-GSt4


    Yep, we have fuckwits here too. yes


    forget that stupid new reporter/reader  of Kangaroo Land   take this  Tony Abbott

    Tony Abbott Calls Hizb ut-Tahrir ‘Un-Islamic’ for Not Condemning IS Beheadings

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1366 - October 09, 2014, 10:11 AM

    Representative Wassim Doureihi of those guys who inspired and now are envious of the Islamic State talks to Australian Broadcasting Corporation Lateline's Emma Alberici

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZGsP9-GSt4


    FFS what a annoying guy! Jeezzzz  wacko
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1367 - October 09, 2014, 10:34 AM

    I have the impression that Hizb ut-Tahrir has been very instrumental in spreading the idea of the caliphate and sharia to fix all the ills of the world. Also their constant attacks on real and perceived wrongdoings of "teh West" make many young Muslims want to "do something" perhaps out of despair when they see the sorry state some Muslim majority countries are in - thus eventually pushing them towards Jihad.

    I am not sure but I can imagine that their narrative spill over to people who don't normally identify themselves with Hizb ut-Tahrir.

    The Jordanian Palestinian Al-Zaraqawi who was killed in 2006 formed the predecessor to what is now IS and he should reportedly have been influenced by the (outlawed) Hizb ut-Tahrir branch in Jordan.

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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1368 - October 09, 2014, 11:27 AM

    Representative Wassim Doureihi of those guys who inspired and now are envious of the Islamic State talks to Australian Broadcasting Corporation Lateline's Emma Alberici

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZGsP9-GSt4



    the face of fascism


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1369 - October 09, 2014, 05:17 PM

    I hope this is true...

    Kurdish Defenders Have Halted ISIS Advance on Kobane: Official

    Quote
    ERBIL, Kurdistan Region - Kurdish forces have halted an advance by militants of the Islamic State (ISIS) on Kobane and are in control of most of the Syrian border town, Kobane’s top official said Thursday.

    Anwar Muslim, head of the Kobane canton in Syrian Kurdistan (Rojava), said that the People's Protection Units (YPG) and the people of Kobane have most of the city under control. He added that morale is high.

    Speaking to Rudaw by phone from Kobane, Muslim said that town officials have remained inside and will not be scared away by the ISIS.

    "ISIS is using heavy weapons to bombard (the town), but YPG fighters are resisting and have halted their advance," he said.

    ISIS militants launched a fresh offensive inside the Syrian Kurdish town on the Turkish border overnight, seizing control of a market area in the east, the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) said earlier Thursday, after U.S.-led airstrikes appeared to have pushed the jihadists back earlier in the day.

    From across the Turkish border, the sound of heavy gunfire and shelling could be heard late into the night from just across the frontier and plumes of black smoke could be seen rising from several parts of the Syrian town.

    SOHR said that ISIS fighters had advanced up to 70 meters inside the eastern edge of Kobane, capturing the al-Hal market in the town's industrial zone, after receiving military reinforcements from the outside.

    Muslim pleaded to the international community and the Kurdish parties to assist the besieged town.

    "I ask the countries of the world and all the Kurdish parties and the Kurdistan Region to aid Kobane and clear it of ISIS," Muslim said.

    Intensified US airstrikes all this week relieved some of the pressure on the town, which has been besieged for more than three weeks.


    Also a Danish-language Kurdish source (jiyan.dk) tells that KDP (main party of the Iraqi Kurdistan Regional Government) and the Iraqi Kurdistan PUK-party/militia will be sending weapons to YPG. They are usually not best buddies.

    And @cahitstorm reports he has been arrested about an hour ago.

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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1370 - October 09, 2014, 05:47 PM

     cheers

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1371 - October 09, 2014, 05:57 PM

    TAKE BEER!!! sloshed

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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1372 - October 09, 2014, 06:00 PM

    Turkey was only invited due to Russia. Now it is just more or less a gas stations for Nato.


    A gas station that is closed. Turkey wont even let American planes take off from there, they have been using Cyprus.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1373 - October 09, 2014, 06:29 PM

    What a tangled web we weave!
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1374 - October 09, 2014, 06:32 PM

    One thing to point out is that if the Turks get involved, they risk the war getting into their cities and towns. Unlike the americans&europeans the effect on Turkish security and economic development could be devastating, because of the border. Note that tourism is one biggest incomes for Turkey, a threat from IS would decimate tourism. If you look at how reluctant western countries,who share no border with Syria and Iraq, to put boots on the ground, what would you expect from the Turks?
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1375 - October 09, 2014, 06:38 PM

    YPJ also has a few Arab women among their ranks now:

    Kobani is becoming Turkey's war

    Quote
    While the Justice and Development Party (AKP) government still is listing preconditions for the Democratic Union Party (PYD) to meet in order for Turkey to help the Kurds in Kobani, the fight for that Syrian border city has turned into Turkey’s war. As the coffins of Turkish Kurdish youth who crossed over to Syria to join the People's Protection Units (YPG) in battles keep returning, the nature of the conflict appears to be changing. On Sept. 24, seven coffins of YPG fighters were brought to Turkey via the Habur border crossing. On Oct. 1, three more bodies, one of them a woman, were brought to Diyarbakir through the Mursitpinar crossing.

    Those who don’t recognize borders

    How is the mood on the other side of the border? I met YPG spokesman Redur Xelil in Qamishli, the most prominent town of Jazeera canton, in a building used as the Ministry of Defense on a street blocked off with concrete barriers. Xelil said the number of Kurds coming from the north he calls Bakur (Turkey) is increasing and that they have no animosity toward Turkey. He said, “The number of YPG fighters has reached 45,000; 35% of them are women. The percentage of PKK [Kurdistan Workers Party] fighters who have joined us is not more than 10%. They serve mostly in command and training functions. The number of those coming from Turkey is also increasing. Recently, 300 youth passed into Kobani. There are more now waiting to cross, but I don’t know their numbers.”

    Turkish and Arab chauvinism won’t leave Rojava with its autonomy experiment, in particular Kobani, alone. Turkey, by demanding Kurds end their autonomy and join other opposition groups to fight Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's regime as a precondition to assist Kobani, appears to be on the same wavelength with IS. With its offensive, IS has dealt strong cards to the Turkish government in its quest to subjugate the Kurds.

    Of course, IS has its own reasons to attack. Xelil listed those reasons to Al-Monitor: Kobani is the link between Afrin and Jazeera cantons. Kobani is between IS-controlled Cerablus and Tell Abyad. IS wants to link those two centers by capturing Kobani. Also there is a crossing to Turkey at Kobani that IS wants. These are the strategic reasons. There are also immaterial motives. Kobani was the first town to be liberated from the regime on July 19, 2012. Although IS is guided by radical Islamic ideology it is still an Arab chauvinist organization. Also, IS lost badly at Jazeera and wants to take revenge.

    Kurds guarantee no attacks on Turkey from Rojava

    When the talk came to allegations of Turkey’s aid to IS, Xelil took from his drawer the ID cards of Turkish citizens killed in IS ranks, a Turkish military ID card and foreign passports stamped at Turkish customs points. He said: “We are criticizing Turkey because we have expectations of it. We share a long border with Turkey. In Rojava, we look at Turkey as a friend, but we see that all terrorists come via Turkey. In the passports of foreign terrorists you have entry stamps from Ankara and Istanbul airports. Never mind supporting IS, we don’t want Turkey even to remain neutral. It must stand with us. We are not a part of the problems between Turkey and the PKK. That is an internal problem of Turkey. We guarantee that there will never be an attack on Turkey from Rojava. But Turkey is treating IS casualties at its hospitals. It is opening its gates to them under the guise of humanitarian assistance. We can’t even take our wounded to Turkey or with extreme difficulty. The facilities that should be given to us are offered to IS. We have witnesses saying Turkey is giving weapons to IS.”

    When I asked if the YPG is cooperating to escort the Turkish army’s supply runs to the isolated detachment at the Tomb of Suleiman Shah in Syria, Xelil said: “At one point, we cooperated with the Turkish army, But later IS said the Turkish convoy coming via Kobani cannot pass through its territory to reach the tomb. Now IS is providing passage to the Turkish army from Cerablus. The tomb has symbolic value for us also. It won’t be damaged. We guarantee to protect it.”

    Kurdish women in YPJ

    After our conversation with Xelil, I encountered Deputy Defense Minister Galiye Nimet. I asked her about YPG’s women’s wing, the YPJ (Women's Protection Units), and the women fighters coming from Turkey. She said Kurdish women were as equally involved in defense affairs as in social services. “We have set up training camps for women in all three cantons. Women are active in all fronts,” she said. “Of the first 20 martyrs we had when IS attacked Kobani, 10 were women. Last year, of our 700 YPG martyrs, 200 were women. Our first woman martyr was Selmo Guliselmo, who fell in Aleppo in 2012. Before the Rojava revolution, we were training women in small groups. The vast majority of women fighters are Kurds. A few Arab women joined us from places we liberated from IS. After the Serikaniye clashes, Kurdish women from Turkey joined also. This is much higher now, but I can’t give you a number."

    I reminded Nimet of the legends we hear of IS militants fearing to encounter women fighters. She replied, “This is not a myth but reality. I personally met IS fighters face-to-face. Women fighters infringe on their psyche. They believe they won’t go to paradise if they are killed by women. That is why they flee when they see women. I saw that personally at the Celaga front. We monitor their radio calls. When they hear a woman's voice on the air, they become hysterical.”

    In sum, while there are Turkish citizens in IS ranks, the number of men and women going over from Turkey to join the YPG and the YPJ is increasing. Opposing forces from Turkey are confronting each other beyond the border. When you add the murky relations of the Turkish government with various actors of the Syrian crisis, it is not hard to see that this war is increasingly becoming Turkey's war.


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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1376 - October 09, 2014, 06:47 PM

    Unlike the americans&europeans the effect on Turkish security and economic development could be devastating, because of the border.

    Unlike Europe? We have a threat on the shores of the Mediterranean. If the islamic state get their foot in Turkey, you think they'll just stop? They've already said they plan to advance on Spain and if they get their way I have no reason to doubt this is what they intend.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1377 - October 09, 2014, 07:06 PM

    ^If IS attacks Turkey,before Turkey attack IS, the Turks have full right to call on Nato, in the same way that US had after 9/11.But if Turkey invades Syria, it would be necessary to invade Iraq too. They would risk upsetting other groups at the same time.And there would be no requirement for Nato to commit fully.Certainly,as long as Assad is in power, Syria will be drawing jihadis like a magnet. What will the Turks do, establish a new goverment?Run by who?Nationbuilding?All that would be repeat of Iraq plus Syria,and that's without Americans&coalition of the willing troops on the ground.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1378 - October 09, 2014, 07:16 PM

    Unlike Europe? We have a threat the shores of the Mediterranean. If the islamic state get their foot in Turkey, you think they'll just stop? They've already said they plan to advance on Spain and if they get their way I have no reason to doubt this is what they intend.


    Hardly a real threat. However a bombing campaign in Europe would be ugly. But it would probably still be nothing compared to what France experienced in the 50's with the Algerian War.

    They don't have an air force and Europe has in several wars against itself shown what it is capable of if everything is mobilised.

    Also reports tell they are losing local support fast.

    The risk of being dragged into (another) quagmire in the Middle East where Iran and the Iraqi Shia militias intervene even more on the side of Assad is much greater than IS landing in their amphibious vehicles on the shores of Spain after they have beaten Syria, Israel, Egypt, Libya (well, that one might be easy) and Algeria. Also IS has like a 1% approval rating in Turkey.

    The US should go to Iran and say "we need to talk" and try to unlock the Syrian knot. However that would probably be political suicide for anyone in the US congress supporting such a move never mind a potential future president because of Israel's interests and influence.

    So Syria will continue to be fucked.

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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1379 - October 09, 2014, 07:24 PM

    If the Turks invade, and IS starts attacking Turkey,like the Taliban does in Pakistan and salafi jihadis in Egypt, that would devastate tourism and other sectors of Turkeys booming economy, on top of all the deaths and lack of security.Nato wouldn't be required to intervene, and Turks would be forced to advance deeper and deeper south,with nationbuilding that follows...and all the hostile groups that aren't IS targeting Turkish troops and personel.
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