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 Topic: 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL

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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1140 - September 26, 2014, 04:54 PM

    'It is unclear who, besides Mr. Fadhli, is part of the Khorasan group. The director of national intelligence, James R. Clapper Jr., said on Thursday that “in terms of threat to the homeland, Khorasan may pose as much of a danger as the Islamic State.”'
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbq3kc29Tmg


    I'd be sceptical about the existence of the Khorasan group unless or until I see more evidence.

    http://blogs.aljazeera.com/blog/asia/khorasan-group-isnt
    Quote
    Something about the name Khorasan, which the US says is a group of al-Qaeda veterans, doesn't feel right.
    A few days ago I began to see news reports quoting US ‎military and government officials talking up a group called Khorasan. This piqued my interest. In 14 years of covering this region this was a new name for me. Then the reports began to paint them as a shadowy super group of hardcore terrorists that are experimenting with technology and new, ever more fiendish ways of attacking civilians in the US.  Then the group became the target of US airstrikes in Syria and suddenly the name was on every news outlet's lips.

    Except something, to me, wasn't right.

    I began to make some calls to contacts across the Middle East and South Asia. To say I drew a blank would be an understatement. Reactions ranged from a hearty laugh to confusion. The name was new.

    In Pakistan I spoke to Ahmed, not his real name, and asked him who the group was. Ahmed is an occasional blogger and activist who openly supports ISIL. He is a veteran of Jihad in Afghanistan and resides in Rawalpindi, surrounded by pamphlets urging Muslims to rise up against the West. "Khorasan? I don't know that name. I don't know who they are."

    In the US, I spoke to analysts and here in Baghdad watched pundits on TV who are seemingly convinced of the group’s danger to the US. Attorney General Eric Holder told US news outlets after the US airstrikes on Syria, that they  had known about the group for 2 years saying:  "We hit them last night  out of a concern that they ‎were getting close to an execution date of some of the plans that we have seen." On the phone I spoke to Robert Ford, the former US Ambassador ‎to Syria who told me: "We used the term inside the government, we don't know where it came from. It certainly didn't originate inside the State Department. All I know is that they don't call themselves that."

    Khorasan is almost certainly a term that the US government has coined. It's suitably exotic. Geographically, it's a historical region in the north east of Iran and includes Afghanistan and what is now Pakistan. This tallies with what I've been ‎told by my sources, and who the Americans claim, make up the group: a hardcore of former al-Qeada fighters who come from Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran.

    Khorasan doesn't have a flag, it doesn't have a media operation, or a brand name which people recognise. In short, it doesn't have the things that ISIL and other groups ‎have, that turn them into a rallying call for others.

    My guess, and this comes from talking to people across the spectrum, is that Khorasan is a term that may well have been coined by intelligence analysts that has been picked up by politicians and then an unquestioning US Media that has turned it into a group that should be feared. It's classic self-fulfilling prophecy theory. Call something a problem and eventually it will become a problem.

    What it clearly isn't is a name that Jihadists know or use. To that end, why would the US government put the name out there? Clearly, it's a short-hand that they see as being media friendly, and it pushes the idea that there are groups out there that operate in a shadowy manner and use ancient names to hark back to an ancient time.

    Khorasan: A name worthy of a James Bond villain and more than likely equally fictional.

  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1141 - September 26, 2014, 05:15 PM

    A medievalist writes...  

    Is Islamic State Medieval?
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1142 - September 26, 2014, 05:48 PM


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1143 - September 26, 2014, 07:08 PM

    I'd be sceptical about the existence of the Khorasan group unless or until I see more evidence.



    yeah its very fishy. never heard about this group…fbi says minimal threat from isis then all of a sudden khorasan was planning an attack on the usa.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1144 - September 26, 2014, 07:33 PM

    Perhaps Khorasan is a label or nom-de-guerre coined by intelligence agencies, to a group that actually exists but call themselves something else. The label may be less important than the existence or otherwise of such a group. They may just be a lone cadre of jihadists with no hitherto official affiliation to any known  group.

    What would be evidence of such a faction? Perhaps a fresh beheading or an aircraft hijacking/bombing or subway attack?

    If such a group does exist (of which there MAY be several/many), I am not looking forward to the emergence of any 'evidence'.

    While I agree we need confirmation of the existence of this group and its ambitions I may not be as skeptical as others are here. These days, nothing surprises me any more.  Cry

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1145 - September 26, 2014, 07:35 PM

    A medievalist writes...  

    Is Islamic State Medieval?


    I don't think IS are quite up to medieval standards yet.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1146 - September 26, 2014, 07:37 PM

    Depends what you are classifying as "the authorities".



    Well I was using your label of 'The Feds' which I took to mean 'the authorities'.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1147 - September 26, 2014, 07:44 PM

    This Khorasan business makes me wonder whether someone's looking a little too hard to the Abbasids for precedent.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1148 - September 26, 2014, 07:47 PM

    always beware of politicians who say we need more laws to counter terrorists.

    We have the laws to combat them already, just need proper funding of intelligence agencies and requisite police divisions.


    Perhaps, but I would be more wary of politicians who say we don't need any new laws to counter such threats. Sometime authorities have access to information that we don't, and do not release it publically for good reasons (ie  not to cause widespread panic or let enemies know we are onto them.)

    I do sympathise with what people say regarding new laws that restrict some freedoms, but its better to have the laws and not need them, than to need the laws and not have them. Some existing laws may be ill equipped to deal with a previously unconceived threat. The risks can be high.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1149 - September 26, 2014, 08:00 PM



    And Dutch Soldiers are advised not to wear uniforms on public transport for the fear of Jihadi attacks.

    what a fucked up world were living in. Whats next?


    Sure but makes sense.

    Sometimes I think in a world where everyone demands freedom of information and transparency we are losing our ability to keep our cards close to our chest and keep our activities to some extent secret.

    This week in The Times there was an article on the Security Services using the examination of bird songs in an IS beheading video to try to locate the area where the beheading were carried out. Releasing that type of information is a huge mistake and irresponsible. It gives the enemy just another opportunity to cover its tracks. The details of our methods should remain classified.

    Loose talk costs lives.


    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1150 - September 26, 2014, 08:07 PM

    I do sympathise with what people say regarding new laws that restrict some freedoms, but its better to have the laws and not need them, than to need the laws and not have them. Some existing laws may be ill equipped to deal with a previously unconceived threat. The risks can be high.


    If you seriously believe that it is "better to have laws and not need them", you're blissfully unaware of the way in which legislation takes on new, uh, uses over time. Examples: One. Two. Three. Four.

    On the other hand, such a belief would qualify you eminently for the post of Home Secretary..
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1151 - September 26, 2014, 08:21 PM

    Sure, I agree that there will be innocents caught up by such laws and this is unfortunate and we should try to keep this to a minimum. Innocent people are arrested all the time, and then released. I do not say that we shouldnt proceed with caution. 

    However in the David Miranda case you provided for example, he was questioned, detained and probably went through hell, but he was eventually released, vindicated, and he walked away and is still alive and well as far as I know. If he was locked up and never seen again then you would have a good case.

    Yeah it sucks and you may accuse 'The Feds' of overzealousness in applying the law in some specific cases. However if The Feds are too complacent and relaxed on this, miss vital signs and people are killed as a result, then it is 'The Feds' who get all the criticism for not acting and protecting its citizens.

    I agree it is a very fine line and perfection can never be reached.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1152 - September 26, 2014, 08:26 PM

    If you seriously believe that it is "better to have laws and not need them", you're blissfully unaware of the way in which legislation takes on new, uh, uses over time. Examples: One. Two. Three. Four.

    On the other hand, such a belief would qualify you eminently for the post of Home Secretary..



    OK I admit that perhaps I was a little strong in my wording. Maybe I should have said 'in some cases it MAY be better to have laws and not need them". I say this with sad reluctance not with glee.  I am not talking specifics here. Just a generalisation when the stakes are so high.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1153 - September 26, 2014, 09:14 PM



    Mariam Al Mansouri: Female Pilot Disowned By Family For Bombing ISIS Terrorists In Syria

    Quote
    Major Mariam Al Mansouri became the United Arab Emirates’ (UAE) first female pilot on the ISIS terrorist group terrorist group following the announcement that the United States would be leading a coalition of nations to use airstrikes against the Islamic State. While the world celebrates her success, the war has come home for Mansouri and reports are claiming the female fight pilot’s family has officially disowned her.

    In a related report by The Inquisitr, the 35-year-old Major Mariam Al Mansouri was among three other women that were part of the attack on ISIS. She graduated in January of 2008 and she said that being a military almost entirely dominated by men was a dream she’s held for years.
    Quote
    “It was my aspiration. Ever since I finished high school, I wanted to learn flying because it was something that I liked in the first place. Being in the air force is a responsibility. I feel proud, especially that I am part of the first batch. And that encourages me to continue in this field. As a pilot, you have to study all the time, even after graduation. You have to continue training because the more hours you fly the more experience you accumulate.”

    Mansouri led three other UAE F-16 pilots in the first airstrike and it’s said that when the “U.S. tanker pilots called in for air refueling and asked for the UAE mission and when they heard a female voice on the other side they paused for 20 seconds.” They then proceeded to drop bombs this week in coordinated attacks against Islamic State strongholds near Raqqa, Aleppo and Idlib.

    Unfortunately, an Arabic language news site called Wattan.TV is reporting that Mariam Al Mansouri’s family has disowned her for these actions. Please keep in mind this is a Google translation and is extremely rough. The Inquisitr did attempt to clean up the translation, but it’s possible there were translation errors introduced in the process.
    Quote
    “The Mansouri family in the UAE announced Wednesday that they had Nbaraha [untranslated] of her daughter Mary because of her participation in the international coalition led by the United States to strike at civilian targets inside Syrian territory. The family also stressed their support for the Syrian revolution. The Mansouri family said in a statement published by news sites Arabic…. ‘We are the sons of the family of al-Mansuri in the United Arab Emirates announce to fill the innocence [translation error?] of the so-called Mariam Al Mansouri. We remind anyone who participates in international aggression on the Syrian people, led by the daughter of the rogue Mariam Al Mansouri, that the the Islamic State in the East and the West has a duty to defend issues of the nation. We exhort the jihad for the sake of Allah and the support of the Syrian Revolution. Blessed, in the face of the descendants of Ibn Alqami.'”

    The Mansouri family also called for support for the Syrian revolution, calling for “all factions and battalions operating on the scene Shamiyah to unite and join forces and efforts to a single goal, which is to drop the Assad regime.” The family also appears to have announced support specifically for the ISIS terrorist organization, saying that their family is “honored heroes of the Sunnis in Iraq and the Levant.” The ISIS terrorist group is also known as ISIL, which stands for Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, although it’s possible this similarity to the ISIS name may be a Google translation error.


    Perhaps one of you Arabniks want to check out the news in Arabic.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1154 - September 26, 2014, 11:14 PM

    This might as well be ISIS propaganda, no?

    "Who really knows?
    Who will here proclaim it?
    Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
    The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
    Who then knows whence it has arisen?"- Rig Veda, 10:129-6
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1155 - September 27, 2014, 01:11 AM

    Mariam Al Mansouri: Female Pilot Disowned By Family For Bombing ISIS Terrorists In Syria
    Mansouri led three other UAE F-16 pilots in the first airstrike and it’s said that when the “U.S. tanker pilots called in for air refueling and asked for the UAE mission and when they heard a female voice on the other side they paused for 20 seconds.”............

    This might as well be ISIS propaganda, no?

    Well it could also be a propaganda of her family ., By disowning her  they save themselves from the wrath of hidden ISIS Islamic heroes of Middle East ..




    Captain Mansouri,  pilots an F-16 Fighting Falcon, a single-engine multirole fighter aircraft, and is a squadron commander. 

    You go girl bomb the shit out of rascals...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1156 - September 27, 2014, 01:48 AM

    Quote
    Well it could also be a propaganda of her family ., By disowning her  they save themselves from the wrath of hidden ISIS Islamic heroes of Middle East ..

    didnt think of that…this could be the case.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1157 - September 27, 2014, 09:48 AM

    George Galloway has stated that going to war against the islamic state is the wrong way to go and will radicalise a whole new generation. If he were in charge during world war two the British would be speaking German right now, those of us who were allowed to live.

    So, it's official. We're going to war. I for one fully support it. Curious about other people's thoughts. Do you support going to war?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1158 - September 27, 2014, 10:03 AM

    No.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1159 - September 27, 2014, 11:00 AM

    You know, as much as I dislike organised religions in general and Islam in particular(because it's so all over the political news these days) -- this middle eastern drama is all political --

    Sure, ISIS - says they're following true Islam and implementing the rules according to the scriptures but consider this  -

    - Assad, an Alawaite is an enemy of Sunny hardliners in Levant and Al-Sham from the beginning, and Al-Nusra faction existed before the ISIS days.
    - During the heydays of so-called "Arab Spring" - US & western allies supported actively supported this faction and other militias (essentially sunni militias of Syria). Free Syrian Army - as much as it claims to be secular, did massacre innocent Syrian civilians who didn't subscribe to its views.
    - And fucking Qatari and Kuwaiti oil lords (who are such an allies of free world) happily funded al-Nusra faction as well as some factions in al-Qaeda (which later gave rise to ISIS) during the Syrian civil war.
    -And erDOGan's Turkey - with the blood of Armenians, Greeks and then Kurds on their hands, now shamelessly wards of Syrian Kurd civilans fleeing from Kobane, and able to procure its hostages from ISIS - and we're to believe that  - oh-so-secular Turkey is not in hands-in-gloves with ISIS ?
    -And the US woke up only when oil companies based in Erbil are about to be attacked by ISIS, when they captured towns and villages around Mosul-Erbill route.
    - Kurds, the only sane and secular people, who are predominantly sunni - are we to blame them that - they're first suppressed by Bathist nationalism and stupid Malik's regime .. and they're the only people who stood up for minorities around that area.
    -Are Iraq's shia militia - Mahdi army - any better? Iran shamelessly arms them, and somehow they're now better?
    -And fascist regime of Saudi arabia - condemsn ISIS alright, but it's not out of any compassion, no, "hey, it's okay to behead alright, but they(ISIS)'re not following rules)" - such is the reasoning of Saudi regime. ISIS is distributing Wahhabit school textbooks in the schools. They're the same, but somehow, since Saudi is a state, they're the allies ??



    "Who really knows?
    Who will here proclaim it?
    Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
    The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
    Who then knows whence it has arisen?"- Rig Veda, 10:129-6
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1160 - September 27, 2014, 11:04 AM

    Tactical strikes to help the local Kurdish-led forces in dire need, yes.

    Bombing campaign to try to destroy ISIS from the air, no.

    Saudi-Arabia and Egypt have said they will not help with ground troops unless the US itself provides ground troops.

    I fear it will be another quagmire and a perpetual war if focus isn't on creating local and regional alliances which can hold without the US & friends having to be called in all the time.

    Soon enough we can have a similar problem in Libya threatening Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt too.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1161 - September 27, 2014, 11:20 AM

    This -- it's all a quagmire there. No party has moral high-ground. When a wretched country like Saudi Arabia gets expelled from comity of nations, then ... then.. we can talk ... until then, it's all the war between opportunists.


    "Who really knows?
    Who will here proclaim it?
    Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
    The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
    Who then knows whence it has arisen?"- Rig Veda, 10:129-6
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1162 - September 27, 2014, 11:29 AM

    ..................

    Saudi-Arabia and Egypt have said they will not help with ground troops unless the US itself provides ground troops.
    ..................

    Any sensible Americans should oppose that and America should never send ground troops to middle east., America should contact and split that ISIS fools and send a group to Saudi-Arabia and Egypt to   replace the Kings and dick heads of these two countries. 10 years down the road that will solve half of Islam problems  and problems created by these potbelly Islamic preachers  around the globe..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1163 - September 27, 2014, 12:19 PM

    If they took over would there be a difference? Well, I imagine some of the minority groups in Saudi would have it slightly worse.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1164 - September 28, 2014, 10:46 AM

    This -- it's all a quagmire there. No party has moral high-ground. When a wretched country like Saudi Arabia gets expelled from comity of nations, then ... then.. we can talk ... until then, it's all the war between opportunists.

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Love it ar-Razi  Afro
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1165 - September 28, 2014, 12:36 PM

    U.S. Leads More Airstrikes Against ISIS In Iraq And Syria

    Britain launches fighter jets against Isis forces in Iraq

    Quote
    Arab nations join Syria strikes as Nusra front threatens retaliation
        Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the UAE ‘participated in strikes’
        Syrian foreign minister says air assault alone will not succeed
        Al-Qaida-linked group says this is ‘a war against Islam’



    that is what news  says on that

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1166 - September 28, 2014, 12:58 PM

    To Counter ISIS Propaganda, Let's Stop Treating the Quran as Infallible

    Quote
    By Fathima Imra Nazeer
    Posted: 09/25/2014 10:12 am EDT


    It was heart wrenching to watch Shirley Sotloff pleading with "Caliph Abu Bakr" to spare the life of her son, Steven Sotloff. Ironically, watching the grief stricken faces Aqsa Mahmood's parents, begging their daughter to come home was also anguishing in its own way.

    There was a strange symmetry in the way both families expressed how much they missed their children and how desperate they were to have them back home.

    Steven Sotloff and Aqsa Mahmood went to Syria for completely different reasons. Steven Sotloff was trying to tell the story of the Syrian people suffering from war while Aqsa Mahmood chose to go there to support a group which believes in persecuting anyone who refuses to conform to their worldview.

    Still, it is hard not to see both families as victims of ISIS and the ideology that has been derived from the literal interpretation of the Quran.

    Aqsa Mahmood grew up in a middle class Muslim family in an affluent neighborhood and went to a prestigious private school. It has been reported that her friends describe her as a "typical girl with lots of friends." She doesn't fit the description of an economically disadvantaged or socially isolated young person that many associate with a radical.

    So what went wrong?

    Aqsa Mahmood and many other Western Jihadis in Syria have been labeled "bedroom radicals." They read up on the Quran and follow radical clerics online and then decide to follow the literal interpretation of Quranic verses that asks believers to fight those who don't believe in Allah and the last day.

    There is no doubt the Internet is doing to Islam what Gutenberg's printing press did to Christianity several hundred years ago. I am convinced that this will ultimately lead to an Islamic reformation and a Muslim world that is more tolerant and pluralistic. For now though, the problem is that the likes of Aqsa Mahmood, are freely accessing the Quran online and acting on Quranic injunctions interpreted by online experts.

    Well-meaning Muslims claim that these Islamists have simply 'misinterpreted' the Quran. But have they?

    As I wrote in a previous post, ISIS's interpretation of the Quran is a very plausible one and this explains why ISIS has no trouble using the Quran as a recruiting tool.

    Even according to Yusuf Ali, the very much mainstream and respected interpreter of the Quran, fighting for the cause of 'truth' is a duty for Muslims under a 'rightly guided Imam.' The definition of 'truth' and 'rightly guided Imam,' unfortunately, is not that clear cut.

    For those of us who have been indoctrinated with the idea that the Quran is God's literal and most perfect word to man, the Quranic commands for true believers to wage war against 'oppressors' and 'hypocrites' can cause a tugging at the heartstrings.

    Still, plenty of Muslims have condemned ISIS while angrily claiming that they have 'misinterpreted' the Quran to justify their barbarity. This is not surprising, since the vast majority of Muslims are decent people who find the brutality of ISIS abhorrent just like everyone else. Muslim leaders like Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf have proclaimed that ISIS and other Islamists have got it all 'wrong' by referring to some peaceful verses in the Quran. Unfortunately these proclamations haven't dissuaded ISIS or the wannabe Jihadis in the west. After all the ISIS claim is that they are the ones following the 'true' Islam.

    We can continue to be in denial and claim that ISIS's ideology has nothing to do with Islam, hoping to dissuade the jihadis and silence the anti-Muslim bigots. Thing is, with the Quran at so many people's fingertips these days, neither the jihadis nor the anti-Muslim bigots are believing this anymore and we are simply hurting our own credibility.

    If we want to really solve the problem and maybe even regain some credibility, we need leaders who are willing to put forth the idea that we have to change the way we regard the Quran. Treating the Quran as God's perfect and literal word to man is creating too much havoc.

    Only when the notions of Quranic infallibility and inerrancy are challenged, will it be possible for believing Muslims to openly admit that according to literalist interpretations at least, violent and hateful passages exist in the Quran: passages that call for fighting those who don't believe in Allah, that support ISIS's ideology and help them recruit young Muslims like Aqsa Mahmood.

    After all, only when a critical mass of Muslims propagate the idea that the Quran may not be God's literal and perfect word to man and denounce the violent and hateful verses in the Quran that support ISIS's ideology, will we successfully counter ISIS's propaganda and stop the flow of wannabe jihadis crossing that Turkish border.

    Until then, families like the Sotloffs and the Mahmoods and countless others in the Middle East and elsewhere will continue to suffer.


    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1167 - September 28, 2014, 02:57 PM


    Hmm.. what ??   Let's Stop Treating the Quran as Infallible??    

    QURAN IS FALLIBLE??  who wrote that Nikolaj??



    Oh she?? Fathima Imra Nazeer?? She is what?? Writer, scientist and mom?  and no burkha?   finmad

    Well She is NOT  MUSLIM ..  finmad

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1168 - September 28, 2014, 03:39 PM

    No, she is an ex-Muslim who states if people want to believe in Islam they should not view it as infallible.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1169 - September 28, 2014, 03:44 PM

    No, she is an ex-Muslim who states if people want to believe in Islam they should not view it as infallible.

     Hmm That is worse than NON_MUSLIM..

     that apostate should be jailed permanently until she repents .. Otherwise death in Jail..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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