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Theme Changer

 Topic: Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons

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  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     OP - June 14, 2014, 08:51 AM

    So it seems it works now, I can start new topics.... When I wanted to post the whole text, same error page came up. So I had to break it up in two parts.... *sigh*

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #1 - June 14, 2014, 08:54 AM


    So, when I tried organizing my closet this morning (mission accomplished) while the kiddo was still asleep, a thought occurred to me. I've noticed that people who leave Islam for "emotional" reasons very often come back to it for one or other reason. This could be applied to me, when I was 18 I just stopped praying or do any of the Islamic rituals and I just didn't want to have anything to do with Islam. This kept on going for about 6 month or so, but eventually I came back due to my "fear of allah", and still having genuine belief deep down that Islam was the religion of god. I "left" because Islam became too overwhelming, and I got so much trouble about it but with no Muslim support system.

    I know a convert lady who left Islam for a couple of years because of a bad marriage, the husband was being heavily influenced by his cousin who was one of the biggest Islamist misogynist I've ever come across (!). But then about a year before I left Islam for the last time, I heard she had remarried a convert and come back to Islam. I think her reasons were emotionally as well, she couldn't keep up with the "obedient Muslimah" role she was assigned, especially in her context where the wife (the "role model") of her husband's cousin was... well, let's just say it's depressing...

    The emotional reasons for feeling attached to Islam may not be part of your genuine belief that Islam is true, but the remote chance it is. And we all know how hell is described, awaiting the disbelievers… Or the fear of disappointing parents and family by leaving Islam, many of you have described leaving Islam as a personal insult to those loved ones around you. Personally, I have had a similar experience. However, it wasn’t me leaving Islam, it was me accepting Islam. I basically went through the same thing ex-Muslims go through in many aspects, it was just the other way around. My family took it as a personal insult, the threatened me and people around me, they disowned me, kicked me out of the house. They did a lot of shit I won’t go into. And that was because they saw my “rejection” of my so called culture and religion as treason.

    Not to forget the whole “you’re gonna end up in Hell, I can’t take part of this” or “how do you think this will make me feel!!”, “We’ll see who’s gonna be wrong on the day of judgments”. For me it was instead “you gonna ruin your life, how do you think this makes me feel!!” or “you’re gonna regret it, and I’ll be here to see you kill yourself for your stupid mistakes when you realize it”.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #2 - June 14, 2014, 08:55 AM

    As for leaving for intellectual reasons, I feel like that is it. Once you've intellectually come to terms that Islam is man-made (like any other religion), there really is no going back. This is how I feel, I have no connection to Islam whatsoever. I don't even miss the "good" things, because I think I can get them elsewhere and even those good things are even better without the Islamic context.

    That's why it irritates me that some dawagandist (was it that Andalusi guy?) argued that apostates leave Islam for "emotional" reasons. That's just simply not true. I don't feel like a single person I've come across here on CEMB falls into the "emotional" category. The "emotional" apostates are usually those you see being afflicted by "weak" iman, stray from Islam during a period in life, and then come back when shit gets "real" (marriage, children, some trouble in their life, and so on).

    Anyway, just wanted to share my thoughts before I forget about it. Some more thoughts on this? Smiley

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #3 - June 14, 2014, 10:30 AM

    I agree, i think people leave Islam purely for intellectual reasons, it takes a long time, even years of internal torment to make the decision to become an apostate.  A devout or practicisng muslim may temporarily lose iman for emotional reasons and have mini break downs due to problems at home or at work and they will stop praying, remove themselves from the community etc, but to leave Islam completely is definately a rational decision.     
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #4 - June 14, 2014, 11:35 AM

    I sort of agree, but also I don't in some respects.

    For me it was emotional leading to intellectual.

    First stage flee very abusive marriage.

    In anger remove the hijab.

    In anger remember what it was to be a woman in Islam.

    In anger go seeking answers.

    Find answers, get more angry.

    Learn more, and more and more, until you reach saturation and then the anger began to fade, but the intellectual commitment was there.

    It was an emotion; anger, that led to me even searching out what I needed to know, but had willfully kept myself ignorant of in order to be a good muslim.

    However, it's not emotion anymore.  It stopped being purely emotion as I began to learn.

    So emotion can be the impetus, but not necessarily the thing that provides commitment to those ideals.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #5 - June 14, 2014, 11:49 AM

    They don't have to exclude each other, but to truly be able to leave Islam "for good" and have "peace", you have to cut the emotional ties and intellectually come to terms with what Islam is for you. That is just my personal observation Smiley

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #6 - June 14, 2014, 11:52 AM

    Yea, I think that's the conclusion I was making in my post.  It might have been emotion, but it became an intellectual commitment.  Afro

    Also fuck those pratts that condemn someone for leaving for emotional reasons.  Most people remain muslim for emotional reasons, that have fuck all to do with ever having read the quran. 


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #7 - June 14, 2014, 12:07 PM

    I agree with everything Cornflower said. Emotion may have some catalytic effect sometimes, but if you have that fundamental belief in Islam and Allah, it will always be a force pulling you back in. Meanwhile, if you rationally determine it to be a falsehood, it holds no appeal to you, no matter what your emotional state is. The cake is a lie!

    I check out ummah.com sometimes still (btw, I think a long while back they were all disgruntled over something someone here said in their introduction on this subject) and I occasionally see users with these emotionally charged reasons for doubting Islam seeking out advice from fellow Muslims. Now, the folks at ummah tend to be a bit abusive in their treatment of these people, because whoever lays out their doubts about Islam is most definitely a troll trying to make Islam look bad from the inside out, but even so, I can't imagine any of them became apostates. Conversely, don't we have (or haven't we had) members like Siunaa who are pretty much over Islam, but whose fear of Hell/etc. keeps them from being certain until they get complete proof there is no god?
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #8 - June 14, 2014, 12:36 PM

    Lua what was the introduction about? How do you know? You got me interested Smiley

    Anyway, I think that the person who maybe has come to the conclusion that Islam probably isn't anything than a man-made religion, can be pulled back in and made to stay in "limbo" because they haven't been able to cut the emotional ties. Like, for example, someone who gets all upset over the fact that (s)he might end up in hell. Who wants to do that? Everyone who leaves a closed religious group/sect (which Islam really "acts" like) has to go through the same emotional process. So someone like Siunaa has to be more than 100 % sure, he has to dwell over it time and time again. It's all a part of the process to cut the emotional tie once and for all.

    I do think that the emotional reasons to get upset over Islam, whatever they might be, are always part of your intellectual thought process. I mean, of course you might get upset over polygamy and child marriage, and they are "emotional" reasons, but you look at it, dissect the issue and come to the conclusion that the acts are reprehensible irregardless from which perspective you try to look at it. The doubting Ummah-members might be all over the emotional side of the issue, but they might very well go on to really reflect and think about it if they are brave enough to open that door. Some people are not brave enough, they get scared of what they might find on the other side so they stay where they are. Either "indoctrinate" themselves into believing the shit (just look at the self-hating imbecile Muslimahs on Ummah), or in secret suffer and be unhappy with their life.

    Now the question, are the indoctrinated fools truly happy? Well, I did that to myself. I thought I was happy, but when I look back at my 8 years as a Muslim. When the hell was I happy during all those years? I could never be happy with myself and my life when I couldn't be intellectually honest with myself. It wasn't easy living in "two worlds"; believing in reprehensible things "in private" but doing everything so that none of those "uncomfortable" issues got brought up among non-Muslims. Because I knew everything was so crazy. Not easy with the cognitive dissonance, right? Anyway, I've said it so many times before, but I feel so much happier now than I ever felt then, despite the custody thing and everything hellish about it, as well as the fact that I have to build up a whole social life from scratch again. In a "cold" place like Sweden, it's harder than in most places I might add Roll Eyes

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #9 - June 14, 2014, 12:45 PM

    Great insight, guys. I remember we had a thread on this subject some time ago and Hassan made some really good points as well. I'll try to find it.
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #10 - June 14, 2014, 12:52 PM

    Found it!  grin12

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=23435.0
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #11 - June 14, 2014, 01:05 PM

    Thanks, interesting thread Smiley

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #12 - June 14, 2014, 01:08 PM

    Great find.  I'd agree with some of those posters too.  It was the emotional slap that disconnected that emotional link which was allowing me to stay a muslim even though I disagreed with so much of it. Like I always knew Islam was awful to women, but I needed to know it on a whole other level.

    From that point, anything I learned took on a new edge, one not tainted by desperation to remain a believer.  Then the more you learn the more you are shocked you ever swallowed any of it at all.

    I agree with Hassan too.  Emotion is not a dirty word, but it is certainly thrown around as a way to demean decisions we make. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #13 - June 14, 2014, 01:25 PM

    emotion is only bad in this context if involved in a critique of Islam. Then its depicted as a rejection of reason, where 'reason' is all about agreeing with Islam.

    Emotion that is part of evangelising, supporting and praising and submitting to Islam is of course a good thing, a sign of Islam's greatness, and a manifestation of Islam.

    Saying you are simply 'emotional' is another dismissive, silencing tool to try and depict the critic of Islam as being irrational.

    So its the usual twisting of everything for the greater need of defending Islam.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #14 - June 14, 2014, 02:56 PM

    Lua what was the introduction about? How do you know? You got me interested Smiley



    Good question, I can't remember. They weren't using usernames, and it was like right after I joined CEMB that I noticed it. But they must have quoted it or linked it, unless I just completely dreamed the whole thing up. Let me do some searching and I'll see if I can find it.  yes

    It was something about someone's introductions or reasons for leaving Islam, and they were making fun of the reasons and trying to decide if it was sincere or if the person was just not really a Muslim, blah blah, ummah.com stuff. Grin
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #15 - June 14, 2014, 02:58 PM

    not that there's anything wrong with emotionally opposing Islam, but the 2 people I know who left out of anger became Muslim again, on their own terms (liberal muslims), and we clash a lot...

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #16 - June 14, 2014, 03:13 PM

    ............"emotion is only bad in this context if involved in a critique of Islam. Then its depicted as a rejection of reason, where 'reason' is all about agreeing with Islam. " ....

    Hmm... Mullah billy says something useful that i can use ., let me rephrase that..

    "Emotion is bad and rejecting Islam by criticizing  it emotionally is very very bad."  But  but if you join in Islam by agreeing with Islamic scriptures in an emotional sermon in crying  is very very  good " .....Mullah billy

    Yap.. cry...cry.. cry for allah doll..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Le-bkMevLw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAkxfD3dYAo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zi6-dC2dOE

    Ooffff.  I live these crying Shahadas .. there are so many.. and if you go for Jihad in crying , it  is the best..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB7AGz4bZ0M

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #17 - June 14, 2014, 03:19 PM

    Ahh, it was the polygamy in heaven one, I just found it. They had a field day going off on her "emotional" reasons for leaving Islam like that. 
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #18 - June 14, 2014, 03:37 PM

    There are heaps of threads on Ummah.com  about polygamy in the Women's section.  Women scared of marriage in case their husband takes a second wife or daughters and wives coming to look for answers after their husband took one.

    It's funny and sad to see the brothers going after them and telling them to shut up because they are effectively criticizing the actions of the most perfect being to ever have been created by God.
    I also saw a couple of threads where the guys are igniting other Muslims to start practicing polygamy on mass scale again.

    It's one of the most off-putting sites I've been to and along with Islam QA really shook my faith.
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #19 - June 14, 2014, 03:47 PM

    I've never been on an Islamic forum, they bored me,  actually i did once go on one to discuss world religions and i was told that i was in leave with shaytan and talked to jiins wacko  can't think why lol
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #20 - June 14, 2014, 03:53 PM

    Hmmm...

    Emotions led me towards Islam. Reason + emotions led me away from Islam.

    Teek hai....teek hai...

    Just want to point out...there is nothing wrong with emotions. Why are emotional arguments viewed as a bad thing in this aprticular context? If you do not wish to adopt a particular lifestyle because it it makes you feel uncomfortable and causes you both mental and physical distress then reject it. I am passionately opposed to a plethora of 'Quranic' or 'Islamic' injunctions and belief in God leads to much inner turmoil as I must betray my humanity and abdicate reason in order to explicate the actions of an invisible being solely on the basis that I think he is the Most Merciful and Most Compassionate despite ample evidence to the contrary.

    I'd rather stick to living a life that is God-free and therefore stress-free. It makes me happy knowing that terms such as 'muslim' and 'kafir' are social constructions, despite their trascending into the legislative systems of some backward countries.

    If someone asks me whether or not I believe in God I will say no. Even if God did exist I can not worship him simply for the fact that somewhere in the world there is a child, someones beloved, slowly, painfully, cruelly withering away, rotting, dying, into the Earth with no prospect of being saved. God could save that poor, lovely child whose life is ebbing away, but God won't. I can't worship anything like that. Fitrah or no fitrah. I do not and can not and will not worship the co-conspirator, inspirer of untold atrocities. This God I can't worship. And I'm not going to appeal to science, nor am I going to mention philosophical argumentation nor do I see fit to quote Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins.

    My heart can not bear to worship such a self deluded God.

    There is nothing wrong with emotional arguments.

    This God I don't worship,
    Worship I don't.
    This God I won't worship,
    Worship I won't!


    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #21 - June 14, 2014, 03:53 PM

    It's one of the most off-putting sites I've been to and along with Islam QA really shook my faith.


    It was definitely one of the ones I was embarrassed of as a Muslim.

    I look at it with the husband sometimes now if there's a notable thread. It gives us interesting issues to talk about, and often the users there are so abrasive and embarrassing that the fact that he initially agreed with their position disarms him a bit, and he's more willing to consider that maybe he could stand to rethink things. Grin
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #22 - June 14, 2014, 03:58 PM

    Even though my mom is religious , she doesn't like the muslimah lifestyle.
    A few days ago, we were watching something on Tv and my mom started sort of "complaining", saying things like
    "See, these women have all the freedom, they can wear the clothes they like, they dont need permission, they live life to the fullest etc.."
    I was happy and sad at the same time.
    Happy because she finally realized that there is something wrong with the muslimah lifestyle and Sad because I dont think she is ever going to do something about it.
    I wish I could tell her how false religion is...

    Hmm gone off-topic

  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #23 - June 14, 2014, 04:32 PM

    Yeah I agree 100%.

    I left Islam when I was around 30. I had a good job. Didn't really do much bad in terms of partying or drinking. I had reinterpreted and accepted my position on 'bad Islamic things' so it wasn't really holding me back in terms of things I wanted to do. It kind of just happened like oh... why am I believing in this anymore.

    Contrast that to when I was in my 20s. More rebellious. Going out more. Drinking more... but all the while still Muslim. I went through my ups and downs of rebellions and then return to God...

    If you leave Islam, it must not be for emotional reasons.


  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #24 - June 14, 2014, 05:07 PM

    ...............
    I was happy and sad at the same time.

    Happy because she finally realized that there is something wrong with the muslimah lifestyle and Sad because I dont think she is ever going to do something about it.................

    Errrr.. complains,, complains and complains ,,,,

    Used to be sad all the time.. happy days are started .. so be happy.. No sad.. no sad..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #25 - June 14, 2014, 05:47 PM


    As for those who leave Islam due to anger or whatever, just like Jila said, I think they eventually come back. Leaving Islam because of "emotions" isn't bad. It just that one has to go through the reason on an intellectual level in order to cut ties, or else you'll eventually be drawn back again. Like the lady convert I knew of, she came back to Islam because her reasons for leaving was her not being able to stand the oppressive Muslimah life. She even said she regretted she hadn't "lived a little more" before she converted, she never partied or had boyfriends etc and for me, it seemed as she had regrets about it. As for another acquaintance I had, she left Islam after a couple of years living as a hard-core Salafi Muslim. She was no scholar or da'iah, but she knew what Islam was. I even heard that she had said "I'll do everything in my power to stop Islam in this country". Obviously, she ain't coming back. 

    @lua: Ummah.com is a typical representation of mainstream orthodox Islam. Women suffer in silence, and are told to stfup if they ever voice their concerns (by men of course). The saddest part is that despite living lives I wouldn't even call real living, they continue because of this stupid idea that it is the "right" thing. They don't dear look through the other side, look through the crack in the door and change their lives.

    Like Inception's mom, most women thing and feel like that in secret. They won't admit it, because they feel guilt to even thing about it.

    I just try to think back at the moment when I just couldn't stand it more. During the last three years I had pushed down every single doubt, every single though, every strain of reasoning, that I knew would lead me down the rabbits hole. I pushed it down the hardest I could, and ignored the fact that sooner or later I would explode. And it did explode, it exploded first time with the "female circumcision" incident, and then the stoning-apes-hadeeth was the final blow and I was down. And then it was over. I had already gone through it, I just had to admit to myself what I already knew. But the thing that actually made me vulnerable with no "Imaan"-protection or anything, was that I started to miss normal things in life that weren't available for me as a Muslim.  ---> Romance, equality in a relationship, sun in my face and wind in my hair, eating a fucking ice cream without getting half of it on the niqab....

    Today I sat in the sun eating yummy ice cream and enjoying my day with the kiddo. No people staring at me, no discomfort for all the redundant cloth around me, no worries about salah this or that. I was just living my life in peace...

    Anyway, sorry for going off topic, but all this is connected in one way or another in my head. Don't know if you get any of it Tongue

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #26 - June 14, 2014, 05:54 PM

    Quote
    Anyway, sorry for going off topic, but all this is connected in one way or another in my head. Don't know if you get any of it Tongue


    I think you were right on. It all followed perfectly to me.

    I think that for many people, their connection to Islam is emotional, even if they don't see it right away. Even analyzing my own behavior as a Muslim, it is interesting to consider just how much emotional nostalgia, longing for belonging, shit about my dad, etc all could have played an important role in determining the type of Muslim I was.
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #27 - June 14, 2014, 06:03 PM

    You know, I have an ex muslim sister.  We don't talk at all, long story that I'm not going to go into right now.

    But she left for emotional reasons.  She has never intellectually challenged anything, and she never returned to Islam.

    Emotion drove her out of Islam.  Pure anger towards our abusive parents.

    Emotion drove her into another religion.

    I know she has no intellectual reasoning behind her decisions.  Not once in any of the times I spoke to her could she explain her leaving with an intellectually reasoned argument.  It was always I hate them, I hate Islam, I want nothing to do with any of it.

    She also has no intellectual basis for the new religion.

    Emotion = leave home and Islam.

    Emotion = fall in love with a Roman Catholic

    Emotion = love makes her become one

    Honestly, I have spoken to her about it.  If she could have given better reason than emotion I might have left Islam earlier, because we both left home together and I had my own gripes with Islam too.

    I don't know.  Emotion I think can still be something that causes someone to leave and stay out of it.  Only because I've seen it in her. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #28 - June 14, 2014, 06:09 PM

    @hm Oh, I know there was a lot of emotional shit that worked as reason for me to turn to Islam and hold on to it for so long. I've tried to think about it and go through it all, but I get so tired of it after a while. But I think I really need to do it eventually, till the end, but I have a fairly clear picture of it anyway. So emotions lead me to Islam, and reason and my brain maturing into an adults (the brain keeps on developing until the age of 24), lead me out of Islam  grin12

    @Berbs: it seems as your sister is a highly emotion-driven person. Maybe she does things on a whim? Or at least, makes drastic decisions without thinking it through? People who are emotion-driven usually do, even though they think they have "thought it through". Her new religion took Islam's place, and her hate is stronger than her fear. It usually is regardless of who you are...

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Leaving Islam for emotional or intellectual reasons
     Reply #29 - June 14, 2014, 06:13 PM

    You could be right.

    it makes me wonder.  Most of us on here, whether emotion was part of the process or not, have adopted intellectual positions on faith that are somewhat similar.  It led us to a position where believing in anything else is too hard/impossible.

    Maybe those who are purely emotion driven, can be found on the other ex muslim forum, in which ex muslims have become Christians.  There is no intellectual maturing in their process, and so they emotionally seek out a replacement religion?


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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