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Theme Changer

 Topic: Rape: It is your fault!

 (Read 28423 times)
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  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #60 - June 19, 2014, 06:04 PM


    To rape someone is a choice, every single time, not a fucking inevitability you moron.  finmad


    Which is not what i said you stupid dumbass. stop with the knee jerk reactionary posts. i said in my post it wont matter if you wear burkah or miniskirt, a rapist will rape. like corn said, it is not as if there is no rape in saudia. and i doubt those rapes occur because the rapist was turned on by the style of burkah or niqab or hijab or whatever. it is more likely he raped because unlike a normal descent moral man, he had no control over himself.

    Quote
    If even dawah man understood this, I have hopes you will too...


    And i thought it was wrong of him to tell those 15 year olds how they are asking to be raped by wearign these clothes. it is not the clothes. it is the man. which is why rapes happen in countries like saudia as you rightly pointed out.

    Women wearing burkahs who get raped are no more asking for it than woman wearing skirts. but we are not living in a world where every single man on the face of this planet has self control. and it is pretty stupid to ignore that.

    it helps no one, not the woman wearing burkah or the woman wearing miniskirt, to think "well i have the right to dress however i want and the men should keep it in their pants". just thinking that does not make it true. i think men should have control over themselves. but just because i think it, does not mean the magic in the air will make all men have self control. that is all i am saying. we are not living in a world where men have that control. we are living in a world where men, be it relative of the person getting raped (boys get raped too, and there is no issues of clothes here) or a complete stranger, have imposed their will on women. no matter how much someone thinks that should not be the case, it is. and it pretty stupid to ignore this basic truth.

    Do i want this to change? ofcourse. lets string up a few rapist and have a public stoning. i think that will be a much better deterrent than any jail sentence.

    "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life." ― Frank Zappa
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #61 - June 19, 2014, 06:16 PM

    Wow. The condoning of public stoning? Really? And you've been told repeatedly but I will repeat, research has shown the majority of rapes are planned, and what women wear is a non-factor. Rape is more about violence and less to do with sexual gratification.
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #62 - June 19, 2014, 06:17 PM

    Your initial post was victim blaming.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #63 - June 19, 2014, 06:21 PM

    So
    Quote
    how can a woman who wears short clothes NOT EXPECT TO GET RAPED? [...] it is like blaming a lion for eating the deer that came to close [...] All i am saying is, when one member of a species decide to walk out in revelaing clothes, that you cannot blame another member of the same species to act on their baser instincts.

     turned into
    Quote
    I am saying, it is pretty fucking stupid of women to just roam about in their short clothes in every corner of the world and NOT expect to have some guy wanting to rape her. [...] are we so fucking blind to human nature that it baffles us when a male decides to impose his will on a woman who is already roaming around in short clothes. does this mean that if a woman was roaming around in a full abayya and niqab to not get raped? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

     and then morphed into
    Quote
    and that we should not be so fucking wide eyed when a women does get raped. whether she is wearing a burkah or a miniskirt. 

     and then finished with
    Quote
    stop with the knee jerk reactionary posts. i said in my post it wont matter if you wear burkah or miniskirt, a rapist will rape.


    I'm not surprised at all that you see nothing wrong with what you're writing and that you somehow think it's Maya's and everyone else's fault for reading your words as you chose them. I get you by now. But I'm stumped about why you even started this, Harith. What are you trying to say was the point of your OP now? That the world is fucked up sometimes and rapes will invariably happen now and then no matter how the victim is dressed because there are always going to be rapists? Because there were many other ways to say so that would have sounded far less bigoted and ignorant...But that's not really what you were trying to say in the with this post that you knew you were "going to get so much hate for," now is it, Harith.
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #64 - June 19, 2014, 06:37 PM

    Your initial post was victim blaming.


    And I hope my last reply cleared that up. the only reason i mentioned skirt was because the video spoke of skirts. and then when everyone started jumping on that i added burkah/hijab/ niqab too. which is why i also said boys get raped too. and like someone else pointed out even earlier about the gang rape of the 3 old. it was not the clothes. it was the men and their inability to control themselves.

    And that is all i am saying, we should not be surprised that men want to impose their will on women. we should not be wide eyed or flabberghasted. or wonder 'why the fuck did this happen'. we teach our kids to not talk to strangers. but if they get kidnapped, we do not blame the kids. this is all i am saying. we cannot NOT tell our kids to not talk to strangers because "well people should have the common sense to not kidnap kids".  so go ahead kid... run wild and free because i hope people have that much common sense to not kidnap you. no parent will ever do that.

    do i want that to be changed? ofcourse. but just having good thoughts does not cut it.

    "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life." ― Frank Zappa
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #65 - June 19, 2014, 06:49 PM

    That hardly fits with your initial statement that.....

    Quote
    it is like blaming a lion for eating the deer that came to close [...] All i am saying is, when one member of a species decide to walk out in revelaing clothes, that you cannot blame another member of the same species to act on their baser instincts.


    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #66 - June 19, 2014, 06:57 PM

    Quote
    ...that you cannot blame another member of the same species to act on their baser instincts.


    That was the bit that needed to be emphasized. and i have been saying this from the first post. not all men have control over themselves. that we should not be dumbstruck as to why that would happen.

    "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life." ― Frank Zappa
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #67 - June 19, 2014, 07:03 PM

    You mention a number of times that some men can't control their selves. I understand what you're saying. You see something pretty and want to reach out and touch it, right? Problem is, that's not usually how it goes.

    You touched on the truth when you mentioned forcing your will on someone else. That's the crux of it. Rape is so often about power and ego, or putting someone in their place. You're walking around by yourself at night? Well what do you expect! This mentality ties into the one I mentioned in my earlier post, the mentality that I find so common with those from an islamic background in contrast to those with a more traditional western background. You may want to have a look at it.

    Sexual gratification for a rapist is always secondary at best. The primary motivation is their own ego. Whether it's the gang rape incident on the bus in India which obviously had showing off to each other as a main factor or a fragile ego that has been somehow bruised, your main flaw is the reasoning that sexual lust is the driving force instead of being somehow mixed in.

    Those men who really do feel they have to release pent up sexual desire/frustration don't go out looking for victims. They switch on a porno and masturbate, find willing partners or go to prostitutes.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #68 - June 19, 2014, 07:05 PM

    Harith, bro, you make no sense. You say that women should think about what they can do to prevent rape, especially if they wear short skirts... but then basically admit that it doesn't matter what women do, those men who want to rape are gonna do it anyway. So the next natural step is to confine women to their homes, not letting them go outside except with a mahram... but then what are we going to do with domestic rape  Thinking hard I know, just say rape doesn't happen in marriage and it's solved! Roll Eyes

    Bro, bro, you think I'm a potential rape victim if I go outside like this? I mean, should I be expecting someone to jump me?


    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #69 - June 19, 2014, 07:05 PM

    That's not what you said though - you said they couldn't be blamed for acting on their baser instincts.  You compared them to lions killing a deer that came too close.  You can wiggle and back track all you like, but its quite clear you were telling women that if we are stupid enough to wear revealing clothes then rape is all we can expect.


    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #70 - June 19, 2014, 07:11 PM

    Off topic, but damn, is that you, Cornflower?

    And back on topic:

    Like Cheetah said,
    Quote
    You can wiggle and back track all you like, but its quite clear you were telling women that if we are stupid enough to wear revealing clothes then rape is all we can expect.


    Even if you wanted to try acting like it was just a misunderstanding due to your unfortunate wording (bullshit, but whatever), the very least you could do was apologize. But instead, you blew up at Inception, and you called Maya a stupid dumbass. You should have taken happymurtad's advice and stopped while you were ahead.
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #71 - June 19, 2014, 07:13 PM

    Harith, bro, you make no sense. You say that women should think about what they can do to prevent rape, especially if they wear short skirts... but then basically admit that it doesn't matter what women do, those men who want to rape are gonna do it anyway. So the next natural step is to confine women to their homes, not letting them go outside except with a mahram... but then what are we going to do with domestic rape  Thinking hard I know, just say rape doesn't happen in marriage and it's solved! Roll Eyes

    Bro, bro, you think I'm a potential rape victim if I go outside like this? I mean, should I be expecting someone to jump me?




    You had me at ankle.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #72 - June 19, 2014, 07:15 PM

    Harith, I don't think you're a rape apologist or a danger to women or anything like that. I genuinely don't. I just think your beliefs are wrong factually.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #73 - June 19, 2014, 07:16 PM

    Harith thinks that I shouldn't be surprised or upset about a man wanting to sexually assault me. After all, I was basically asking for it with my slut-ish skirt and my sheer blouse. And everybody knows only whores wear high heels.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #74 - June 19, 2014, 07:18 PM

    Harith, I don't think you're a rape apologist or a danger to women or anything like that. I genuinely don't. I just think your beliefs are wrong factually.


    No, I prefer to not judge people too harsh just because of one thing. Who doesn't occasionally say dumbass things, right? I know I do.

    But Harith, bro... We all suggest you think this through and try to re-evaluate your stance. Even Dawah Man did it, and he's an idiot. I believe in you! great

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #75 - June 19, 2014, 07:52 PM


    Sexual gratification for a rapist is always secondary at best. The primary motivation is their own ego...



    I agree with every thing you said 100% except that bit. would you say the same is true for men raping women at college dorms or frat houses? that it was primarily about ego and the sexual rape was a secondary thing?

    Cornflower, honestly, you are no more asking for rape than this woman:



    in my first post i said skirts because i was commenting directly on the video. but when people started jumping on that, i added burkah/hijab. so for me, you posting that pic and asking me 'am i asking to get raped' is like another woman posting her pic in a burkah and asking me the same question. ofcourse you are not asking to be raped. but do you think a rapist cares? do you think a rapist will ask, hey cornflower do you want to be raped? ofcourse not. and however true it may be that clothes do not effect on getting raped, the rapist would think so. for him, it is just another justification to committing his crime.

    you look young enough to be my daughter so let me reply to from that pov. as a father it would deeply concern me that you will be going out wearing that. not because i think you are asking to be raped. but because a rapist might look at you, and think 'oh look at her.. she probably gives to everyone' or something along those lines and use that as a justification. do you understand what i am trying to say? you may put that dress on and think it is absolutely ok. but there are men out in the world who will look at you in your dress and think 'she is a legit target for rape'

    is that true? does putting on that skirt makes a legit target? ofcourse not. but it does not matter to the guy who will think that and then rape you. was that your fault for putting that dress on? ofcourse not, but just like we teach kids to be careful when they are playing, to not talk to strangers, is just the kind of concern women should keep in mind when they put on dresses like that.

    not because they are now asking for it, but becasue some degenerate prick somewhere will look at you in that dress and think that. we are living in a world where men like that exist. men with no self control. they are just looking for a reason. whatever that reason is. i hope you understand what it is i am trying to say.

    And i doubt dawah man changed his mind. he is a showman. it is more likly that his masters at iERA told him to take it down for the sheer absurd nature of the video.

    "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life." ― Frank Zappa
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #76 - June 19, 2014, 07:55 PM

    No, I prefer to not judge people too harsh just because of one thing. Who doesn't occasionally say dumbass things, right? I know I do.

    But Harith, bro... We all suggest you think this through and try to re-evaluate your stance. Even Dawah Man did it, and he's an idiot. I believe in you! great

    Actually, while I was in the shower I realised that what I said was wrong. Damn you Cornflower, you quoted it before I could edit.

    Harith, a better way to put it was that I'm sure you don't intentionally mean to be a rape apologist. I have confidence from what you're said you know it's wrong and wouldn't do it yourself, or at least I hope not. But the fact of the matter is, what you're saying is rape apology unintentional or not. I don't think you mean it, but that's what it is. The fact you said that not every man can control himself, that gives a huge insight into what your mind set is. The fact I'm not a rapist isn't that I have the willpower to control my urges, and that goes for the vast majority of men. Your premise on what factors into rape is faulty.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #77 - June 19, 2014, 08:02 PM

    I agree with every thing you said 100% except that bit. would you say the same is true for men raping women at college dorms or frat houses? that it was primarily about ego and the sexual rape was a secondary thing?

    Yup. What you're saying seems basically what I said above. Men who aren't rapists aren't rapists because they control their urges?

    I'm willing to say that sexual urge may be mixed up in it sometimes, but yes, it is at best secondary.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #78 - June 19, 2014, 08:05 PM

    Thanks for your faith in my character Quod.

    but i am not wrong when i say it is the lack of self control some men have. if you and a rapist were looking at corn wearing that skirt, would i be wrong in saying that the thing that distinguishes you from that rapist is that you have the self discipline, the self control to not act on your baser instinct?  that unlike the rapist, you had control over your urges?

    would i be wrong?

    "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life." ― Frank Zappa
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #79 - June 19, 2014, 08:07 PM

    Yes, you would be completely 100% wrong.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #80 - June 19, 2014, 08:09 PM

    so what reason would you give?

    "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life." ― Frank Zappa
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #81 - June 19, 2014, 08:10 PM

    You are basically saying that in front of a woman, a man is tempted to rape her.
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #82 - June 19, 2014, 08:12 PM

    I agree with every thing you said 100% except that bit. would you say the same is true for men raping women at college dorms or frat houses? that it was primarily about ego and the sexual rape was a secondary thing?

    Cornflower, honestly, you are no more asking for rape than this woman:

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    in my first post i said skirts because i was commenting directly on the video. but when people started jumping on that, i added burkah/hijab. so for me, you posting that pic and asking me 'am i asking to get raped' is like another woman posting her pic in a burkah and asking me the same question. ofcourse you are not asking to be raped. but do you think a rapist cares? do you think a rapist will ask, hey cornflower do you want to be raped? ofcourse not. and however true it may be that clothes do not effect on getting raped, the rapist would think so. for him, it is just another justification to committing his crime.

    you look young enough to be my daughter so let me reply to from that pov. as a father it would deeply concern me that you will be going out wearing that. not because i think you are asking to be raped. but because a rapist might look at you, and think 'oh look at her.. she probably gives to everyone' or something along those lines and use that as a justification. do you understand what i am trying to say? you may put that dress on and think it is absolutely ok. but there are men out in the world who will look at you in your dress and think 'she is a legit target for rape'

    is that true? does putting on that skirt makes a legit target? ofcourse not. but it does not matter to the guy who will think that and then rape you. was that your fault for putting that dress on? ofcourse not, but just like we teach kids to be careful when they are playing, to not talk to strangers, is just the kind of concern women should keep in mind when they put on dresses like that.

    not because they are now asking for it, but becasue some degenerate prick somewhere will look at you in that dress and think that. we are living in a world where men like that exist. men with no self control. they are just looking for a reason. whatever that reason is. i hope you understand what it is i am trying to say.

    And i doubt dawah man changed his mind. he is a showman. it is more likly that his masters at iERA told him to take it down for the sheer absurd nature of the video.


    You have got to be fucking kidding me.

    You make no sense at all. On the one hand you admit that nothing will stop a man raping if he is so inclined, and indeed most men are so inclined according to you.  Yet on the other hand you continue to link it to clothes, so much so that you look at cornflower's picture, and state you would feel uncomfortable if your daughter was to dress that way because it could lead to her being raped.

    So which one is it?  her clothes are to blame, or they are not to blame?

    Because if it is indeed that anything can be used to justify rape by a man inclined to rape, I fail to fucking see how her being in different clothes will prevent that.

    It's like cornflower said, here we end up with women needing to stay at home, away from all men, because men are by nature, rapists.

    If she doesn't keep her body safe, we shouldn't act at all surprised when she does get raped.

    Your logic is mindfuckingly sickening. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #83 - June 19, 2014, 08:12 PM

    Thanks for your faith in my character Quod.

    but i am not wrong when i say it is the lack of self control some men have. if you and a rapist were looking at corn wearing that skirt, would i be wrong in saying that the thing that distinguishes you from that rapist is that you have the self discipline, the self control to not act on your baser instinct?  that unlike the rapist, you had control over your urges?

    would i be wrong?

    Just want to get this out the way, You are aware that "looking at corn wearing that skirt" is victim blaming right?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #84 - June 19, 2014, 08:13 PM

    Harith,

    I am going to post the forum rule regarding this topic. I suggest that you read it carefully. If you value the ability to continue posting on this forum, I would also suggest that you take a moment to step away and consider your next posts wisely. This is in my capacity as a Moderator.

    Quote
    4/ Rape victims.
    Under no circumstances will suggesting that rape victims are responsible for the actions of a rapist be tolerated.
    Once again, it is grounds for an instant smite. No advance warnings will be given.

  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #85 - June 19, 2014, 08:14 PM

    Thanks for your faith in my character Quod.

    but i am not wrong when i say it is the lack of self control some men have. if you and a rapist were looking at corn wearing that skirt, would i be wrong in saying that the thing that distinguishes you from that rapist is that you have the self discipline, the self control to not act on your baser instinct?  that unlike the rapist, you had control over your urges?

    would i be wrong?


    Did it ever occur to you that he doesn't have that urge in the first place?

    Are you saying you have those urges, but only through self control are you able to master them?

    I mean you'd have to be admitting to that right, since you keep harping on about men need to control basic urges, one of which is to rape. 


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #86 - June 19, 2014, 08:29 PM

    I think Harith  does have point here..
    ........................And that is all i am saying, we should not be surprised that men want to impose their will on women.
     [s]we should not be wide eyed or flabberghasted. or wonder 'why the fuck did this happen'. we teach our kids to not talk to strangers. but if they get kidnapped, we do not blame the kids. this is all i am saying. we cannot NOT tell our kids to not talk to strangers because "well people should have the common sense to not kidnap kids".  so go ahead kid... run wild and free because i hope people have that much common sense to not kidnap you. no parent will ever do that. 

    do i want that to be changed? ofcourse. but just having good thoughts does not cut it.[/s]

    but rest of the post doesn't fit to his line of thinking., because when we are talking these molestations adult women by adult men we are not talking about kids  ..

    Anyways So Harith when you say "we should not be surprised that men want to impose their will on women" , what good reason could you think for such behavior of men ?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #87 - June 19, 2014, 08:29 PM

    but do you think a rapist cares? do you think a rapist will ask, hey cornflower do you want to be raped? ofcourse not. and however true it may be that clothes do not effect on getting raped, the rapist would think so. for him, it is just another justification to committing his crime.

    you look young enough to be my daughter so let me reply to from that pov. as a father it would deeply concern me that you will be going out wearing that. not because i think you are asking to be raped. but because a rapist might look at you, and think 'oh look at her.. she probably gives to everyone' or something along those lines and use that as a justification. do you understand what i am trying to say? you may put that dress on and think it is absolutely ok. but there are men out in the world who will look at you in your dress and think 'she is a legit target for rape'


    Islamic mentality. What you're describing here is not only victim blaming/rape apology, it's in the wider sense rape culture. Even though you realise it's a terrible crime and should be punished you are justifying a rapist's actions by insisting the victim should share the blame. I'm not sure you're completely aware of this.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #88 - June 19, 2014, 08:34 PM

    Islamic mentality. What you're describing here is not only victim blaming/rape apology, it's in the wider sense rape culture. I'm not sure you're completely aware of this.

    Noooooo..

     Rape/molestation women  is NOT Islam specific., I may agree with you if it is a war between Muslims and non-Muslims and there Islam does gives some ideas and rules for the Islamic warriors for making women for the use of their The Right Hand" .. usual word is " right hand possession" .

    It is also possible possible Muslim male learn that aggressive behavior towards women folks because of this inherent advantage Islam gives to male species through rules/regulations and rituals  it imposes on women  folks..  But other wise Rape/molestation women  is NOT Islam specific  QSD

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Rape: It is your fault!
     Reply #89 - June 19, 2014, 08:39 PM

    Allpraise etc etc, has been banned for 3 months for breaking the forum rules and continuing to suggest that being raped is the fault of those parading around and tempting men...in other words, victim blaming.




    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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