Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


German nationalist party ...
Yesterday at 10:31 AM

New Britain
February 17, 2025, 11:51 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
February 15, 2025, 04:00 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
February 14, 2025, 08:00 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
February 13, 2025, 10:07 PM

Muslim grooming gangs sti...
February 13, 2025, 08:20 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
February 13, 2025, 01:08 PM

Russia invades Ukraine
February 13, 2025, 11:01 AM

Islam and Science Fiction
February 11, 2025, 11:57 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
February 06, 2025, 03:13 PM

Gaza assault
February 05, 2025, 10:04 AM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
February 03, 2025, 09:25 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up

 (Read 21269 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 4 5 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #30 - June 25, 2014, 05:57 PM

    That's great Jedi, you reminded me of so many more issues. I'll expand a little bit on a few of them!

    About the folklore bit. When we look at the hadeeth and the discussion of "magic" and "superstition" and so on, it is all very specific to the traditions of the Arabs. For example, the black dog is the devil. But what about black cats? Is that all "nonsense", but Arabs' (Mo's?) issues with black dogs is tooootally from allah? The different methods of "reading" omens and such, all of them seem very foreign to other places and cultures. One would argue again, that they give general guidelines and principles if you let the scholars analyze them, and that's fine. I can partially buy that. But it's still very culturally specific. Also the jinn. What about leprechauns, fairies, gnomes and so on? Why are all these "nonsense" and non-existing but the particular superstitious belief in "unseen" creatures among the Arabs were toooootally allah's creation.

    Mo said that bad omens are only found in three; women, houses and horses. It's kind of ridiculous. Some cultures don't see women as "bad omens" at all. In fact, a lot of civilizations have been/are matriarchal and would absolutely abhor the idea that a woman might be a "bad omen" (even if we take into account the Islamic explanation what a "bad omen" is in this particular case, which by the way is totally bs and scholars had to do it so that they could defend Mo's little slip about the whole shirk thing Roll Eyes ). And horses? Why wouldn't Mo use the word "transportation" or something. Horses aren't even used as a means of transportation by everyone. It's kind of bs to say that we can make an analogy and say that it is referring to any kind of personal transportation. It just shows that Islam really is culture and time specific, because if it wasn't Mo and allah COULD have used much more general wordings and explanations. But they didn't.

    I've mentioned it before, but I think this is a very good point which you also mentioned Jedi, about the arabocentrism in regards to the "ancient tales" and prophets. They are all from the Middle East, they are all from very specific Jewish tribes and people, and we learn nothing about history or people outside the Middle East except Ya'juuj and Ma'juuj, who aren't even described as really human. Homo erectus appeared between 1-2 million years ago. The first "modern" human, of which we know of from fossils, appeared about 160 000 years ago. Imagine all the civilizations, all the people, all the tribes, villages and cities. How could allah have sent messengers to all of them, why haven't we learnt anything about them, why do we only focus on old bearded men from the Middle East who all supposedly existed during the last 6000 years or so (excluding Adam... or did he? Another mathematical and historical discrepancy that doesn't add up lol). Wasn't any other messenger of importance or significance except those who lived during the last 6000 years or so? From this perspective, if I were from Asia or a native (south or north) American (or even sub-Saharan Africa), with no real or long-lived historical or cultural connection to the Middle East, I would totally see Islam as an Arab religion. These places, these people, everything, are very foreign and I wouldn't be able to "connect" or relate. Anyway....

    Muslim apologist may say well, Mo said allah sen 124 000 messengers in total and that he sent one to all people. Every nation has had at least one messenger sent to them, but they distorted the message and whatnot. First of all, even if we buy this argument, and believe the narration which states 124 000 prophets, what is that but a piss in Mississippi? We are talking about billions of people who have lived during a time period of at least 160 000 years! Mathematically, there is no way it can add up. Also, why did allah love the Middle East so much that he sent messenger after messenger again and again, while some other nations who lasted for thousands of years only received one? It's not fair or rational, and isn't allah all-wise and all-just?

    Anyway, sorry for perhaps ranting on about this for too long Smiley

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #31 - June 25, 2014, 05:59 PM

    @ HM reminds me of this topic

    http://jediapostate.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/normal-0-false-false-false-en-gb-x-none_31.html


    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #32 - June 25, 2014, 06:03 PM

    Muslim apologist may say well, Mo said allah sen 124 000 messengers in total and that he sent one to all people. Every nation has had at least one messenger sent to them, but they distorted the message and whatnot.


    He sent one messengerprophet to every nation save for:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/04/140403-brazil-peru-amazon-rainforest-uncontacted-tribes-finai-illegal-logging-world/

    http://www.uncontactedtribes.org/

    Allah hates RAINFOREST and the naked boob Flaunting JUNGLE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYj5o4kQsXs




    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #33 - June 25, 2014, 06:11 PM

    I agree with what you said Jedi about hellfire, i often thought this too, that suffering related to the extreme heat of the arab desert life and the coolness of Jennah was relief of the heat, basically descibring an oasis with cool waters.. Simple logic, yes i guess if i were to describle hell living in the UK it would be rain and grey clouds, heaven would be warm and cosy.


    I know exactly. When you describe Hell to someone in the UK, not indoctrinated in to superstitious nonsense, their reaction would be 'Oh that's nice, we could do with a spot of sunshine.'


    I don't know how much I agree with this argument to be honest.

    Christianity (NT) describes hell as a place of fire, and historically it has been imagined that way in the Christian western world.  Hell is more often than not referred to in popular media as a place of burning torment too, by people who live in rainy, miserable, murky places.

    Fire is something to fear no matter where you come from around the world. 

    Of course all abrahamic traditions did originate from similar places somewhat, so could be it's all pretty relevant.  I just wanted to add my 2 cents, that people in wet, murky miserable places, still fear hell because it is a place of fire.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #34 - June 25, 2014, 06:15 PM

    Way to spoil the party Barbie!  finmad

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #35 - June 25, 2014, 06:17 PM

    Grin 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #36 - June 25, 2014, 06:24 PM

    I don't know how much I agree with this argument to be honest.

    Christianity (NT) describes hell as a place of fire, and historically it has been imagined that way in the Christian western world.  Hell is more often than not referred to in popular media as a place of burning torment too, by people who live in rainy, miserable, murky places.

    Fire is something to fear no matter where you come from around the world. 

    Of course all abrahamic traditions did originate from similar places somewhat, so could be it's all pretty relevant.  I just wanted to add my 2 cents, that people in wet, murky miserable places, still fear hell because it is a place of fire.


    And there is the thought that jahhanum originates from the word gehinnom; from the valley of hinnom where children were said to be sacrificed by fire (either literally of metaphorically).
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #37 - June 25, 2014, 06:26 PM

    The tax system. Muslims pay 2.5% while non-Muslims pay a poll or head tax of 1 dinar at least. A dinar is a gold piece so is a lot of money. So if both a Muslim and non-Muslim have an income of 12 dinars annually the Muslim pays less. However if there are a rich Muslim and a rich non-Muslim, the non-Muslim pays less in taxes. This creates an unbalanced system and is flawed.  This could, and has, created tense between religious groups. This is similar to Christianity in which banking was deemed a job not suitable for Christians so Jews filled this role creating a large amount of wealth for themselves and community. This later became the all to common Jewish bankers run the world due to Christians own short-sighted views on the world and it's economic systems.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #38 - June 25, 2014, 06:59 PM

    The absurd calculations is another thing. There are many points I could bring up here, a lot of it stems from the hadith but the Qur'an is not immune, either.

    1. The size of a molar tooth in the hereafter is reported to be the size of Mount Uhud. That only really makes sense of the rest of the body is also proportionate, as well as the rest of the environment, which makes the inference moot.

    2. Adam was 90 feet tall. (If all things on him were proportionate, it would mean that his erect penis was something like 8-10 feet long, depending on how big our father was. Grin) It's easy to point out how silly that would be if Adam lived on earth and had to sustain such a massive body with the resources we have available.

    3. A woman should not travel alone for a distance of more than 3 days. Well, today, 3 days is enough to make it around the world. Twice if someone were so inclined.

    4. 500 camel-years between heavens. I won't go into explaining why that's silly.

    5. A day with Allah is 1000 earth days. Really? What star does Allah orbit and what world of his revolves to help him keep track of his "days."

    6. Angels having wings of whatever number. Flapping wings don't really help in outer space due to the lack of air. Do angels use rocket propulsion to break the earth's gravitational pull?




     
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #39 - June 25, 2014, 07:09 PM

    I would reject all absurd nonsense from Hadith.. I only want absurd things from Quran.......

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #40 - June 25, 2014, 07:12 PM

    Quote
    6. Angels having wings of whatever number. Flapping wings don't really help in outer space due to the lack of air. Do angels use rocket propulsion to break the earth's gravitational pull?


    They use the wings to tickle each other, obviously!

    That silly rule about keeping beards because Jews around Muhammad at that time did NOT  kept beards.

    Facing East when praying to - ahem! sorry, in the direction of -  the Ka'abah, when in fact a person facing East, say in Sheffield, will most likely be facing in the direction of a distant star as opposed to Mecca.

    Allah's abject failure to anticipate CCTV, iPads and mobile phones thus rendering the 'four witnesses' rule invalid.

     

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #41 - June 25, 2014, 07:16 PM



    4. 500 camel-years between heavens. I won't go into explaining why that's silly.



    Camel years?   Cheesy Cheesy


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #42 - June 25, 2014, 07:18 PM

    Yeah. It's explained as the distance a rider on a camel could cover in 500 years. It's scientific.  parrot
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #43 - June 25, 2014, 07:21 PM

    Quote
    Allah's abject failure to anticipate CCTV, iPads and mobile phones thus rendering the 'four witnesses' rule invalid.


    I like that one.  Afro
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #44 - June 25, 2014, 07:49 PM

    Doing wudu with water 5 times a day and then going into a mosque to pray was a good way of cooling yourself down and getting out of the baking heat of the desert. Nothing divine about it at all.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #45 - June 25, 2014, 08:12 PM

    ^^^^^^

    Plus, nothing better than a cool arse.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #46 - June 25, 2014, 08:31 PM

    The delights of paradise are clearly aimed at those in hot & dry climates. Personally I want a sunny beach - we've got plenty of cool shade and running water here in the UK. I'd also prefer a deck chair to cushions and a carpet, if that's OK? (While I'm at it, silk & velvet brocade are not my thing either - jeans and a Bob Dylan T-Shirt please?)
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #47 - June 25, 2014, 08:46 PM

    Yea, I'm down with that.

    Paradise on a tropical island, with smiling happy people to socialise with and make merry with, a hammock dangling near an ocean view, an ice cold cocktail/mocktail, someone warm and cuddly to snuggle up to, and an endless amount of books to read.

    I'm sure I'd get bored of it one day, but that sounds like heaven to me right now. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #48 - June 25, 2014, 08:48 PM

    Heaven does not sound nice being one of many wives, living in some massive shady palace, with wine that doesn't get me drunk.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #49 - June 25, 2014, 08:48 PM

    At least I'll be able to check out your marrow bone! Yummy-Yummy!!!!  cool2

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #50 - June 25, 2014, 08:51 PM

     Cheesy

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #51 - June 25, 2014, 09:32 PM

    ... They make the Qur'an out to be some timeless book of holy wisdom. To them I say, "read through it!" The book is filled with all sorts of weird practices, rules, and hate of the "disbeliever." It's a terrible book if you don't actually believe in it.

    TBH this was my reaction when I did try to read it. I just thought it was such a grotty and nasty little book. I only read about half the thing because by that point it was obvious that it wasn't going to get better, and it left me feeling like a needed a bath.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #52 - June 25, 2014, 09:42 PM

    TBH this was my reaction when I did try to read it. I just thought it was such a grotty and nasty little book. I only read about half the thing because by that point it was obvious that it wasn't going to get better, and it left me feeling like a needed a bath.


    Even that description is making me feel like I need a spa treatment day with extracts of seaweed and half a bottle of champagne.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #53 - June 25, 2014, 10:02 PM

    Allah didn't mention once polar bears  Cry

    I wonder why freezing temperatures are not seen as a torture in Islamic hell. I dont know about other religions' hell, but whenever I hear the word "hell", I associate it with fire.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #54 - June 25, 2014, 10:09 PM

    The delights of paradise are clearly aimed at those in hot & dry climates. Personally I want a sunny beach - we've got plenty of cool shade and running water here in the UK. I'd also prefer a deck chair to cushions and a carpet, if that's OK? (While I'm at it, silk & velvet brocade are not my thing either - jeans and a Bob Dylan T-Shirt please?)


    Exactly!

    I was writing a response and realized I expressed the sentiments already. Essentially, what I was saying here:

    The “whatever you want” card they always pull for really Jannah brings up more problems than it solves. What if you were a person who took joy not in reclining on cushions in tents, but in actually doing something innovative and productive? What if you really get your personal satisfaction from creating new technology and watching it change the world? Will Allah create a fake society for you to influence and continually give you “good” ideas to make that society improve? Or what if you are an author or musician who gets satisfaction from having people enjoy your work or becoming a bestselling composer? Will Allah just create a fake audience of people designed to always love whatever you produce?   Will he design some huge, fake awards ceremony to acknowledge your “accomplishments?”
     
    Or let’s say you wanted to move to a huge city and become a major fashion designer living in a downtown penthouse and driving a classic sports car while hanging out with a circle of famous and influential friends. The infrastructure for that sort of thing does not even exist in Jannah. Is Allah just going to create fake demand for your fashion lines so that you can feel that satisfaction of getting rich? Is he going to populate your fake ideal city with fake, hip people for you to interact with if no one else in Jannah shared your idea of bliss?

     Will there be any opportunity for individuality, ambition, and accomplishment? Or is everyone in Jannah just meant to enjoy boozeless wine, dates, and hooris?

    I think that is a problem for both men and women in Jannah.

    The more I think about this, the more I wonder how I’d never really thought about it sooner. If I personally could truly have “whatever I wanted,” it would definitely involve travelling to new places, meeting new people, and learning new cultures. Will there even be such a concept as “culture” in Jannah? Or would Allah just create a bunch of fake cultural scenarios for me to discover? What if I really wanted to immerse  myself in the history of a new location? How would that work? Would Allah just make up this virtual reality history and pass it on to me to discover and enjoy as though it were real?  Fake villages. Fake languages. Fake people. Fake artifacts. 

    It’s completely absurd.


  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #55 - June 25, 2014, 10:18 PM

    ^very well said.

    In heaven, where everything is possible, what will be the point of existence?
    We are designed for struggle and achieving something in life. We are no more human beings, if we live in a struggle-free world, where you have no sense of achievement, no dreams and  no obstacles to overcome. The question remains even there, what's the point of living forever?


  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #56 - June 25, 2014, 10:18 PM

    To be fair though, many Muslims will say that the Qur'an is just speaking in the language the people understood at the time and that these images shouldn't be taken literally and that paradise will be that which "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, nor mind imagined" - as the hadith states.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #57 - June 25, 2014, 10:22 PM

    Well then you might as well not bother with at least those bits at all then.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #58 - June 25, 2014, 10:31 PM

    Well then you might as well not bother with at least those bits at all then.


    Well yes, and I personally would prefer a book claiming divine origin, appeal more to my intelligence rather than sensual instincts -  and while I have no doubt the Qur'an is of human origin rather than divine - to be fair it is pretty hard to please everyone. The Qur'an certainly appealed to it's audience at the time - and continues to do so up to this day.
  • Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
     Reply #59 - June 25, 2014, 10:40 PM

    I made a video a while back about Islam's depiction of paradise and someone asked me what would be my ideal for paradise and tbh it stumped me. I think I would like to think that if there is a life after death it is something more noble and profound than I can describe using earthly imagery, but I would inevitably end up using images and descriptions of things and ideas we know on earth - what else could I use? They would also be bound to appeal more to my generation more than those hundreds of years apart from me.
  • Previous page 1 23 4 5 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »