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Theme Changer

 Topic: Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams

 (Read 48853 times)
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  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #90 - June 30, 2014, 02:51 PM

    It has nothing to do with POW. Boy, the Sunni influence in many of you is strong. Plus I realized you don't read my post. I have discussed this in detail.


    Perhaps so but why can non-married and married people be equally protected?

    It doesn't get around the fact that men can have 4 wives and many 'wives' (concubines) whereas women cannot. Why is this, especially now with DNA tests?
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #91 - June 30, 2014, 03:00 PM

    Listen Bigmo I have visited many Quranist sites and they have more rosy interpretation than yours. I don't believe in the Ahadith thanks to their brainwashing. But how can concubinage, whether forced or not be respectful?

    I see you are a deist and accept the better interpretations. But it still leaves many loopholes. Please refer to my first post in the thread. Even though I believe that the Ahadith can't be a part of Islam what other historical source is there to find out about Muhammad and past Islam fully?

    And how can the majority of the translators who translates dharaba as wife beating can be wrong? How do you know that the Quranists aren't playing tricks on us? To tell you the truth after seeing Quranist interpretations I long to learn Arabic just for this doubt. There is a guy named Happymurtad in CEMB. He is an expert in Arabic. Maybe you can ask him to verify things for you.

    And please forgive me for raging at you. This is the month of Ramadan and the people in my locality have become more adamant at throwing nasty comments at me just because I don't wear stole properly when out of my parents' sight. These eager-Muslims-only-on-Ramadan annoy the hell out of me. I am a human not a sexy body just because I am a woman!
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #92 - June 30, 2014, 03:02 PM

    Yeez it's more like Sunni anti-Quranist alcohol.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #93 - June 30, 2014, 04:49 PM

    It has nothing to do with POW. Boy, the Sunni influence in many of you is strong.


    This is a truly stupid thing to say.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #94 - June 30, 2014, 05:09 PM

    Concubines have nothing to do with forced marriage. Concubines in the Quran are marriages without dowry. It was practiced in Medina. Its actually a Judaic tradition that the people of Medina picked up. I have dealt with this issue in this thread in detail.


    Oh, NOW I get it! Just as rape is sex without consent!

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #95 - June 30, 2014, 05:17 PM

    The Quran only recognizes marriage done when a person reached mental maturity and can understand the Quranic commands concerning marriage. The Quran was not sent to children or-immature people.


    How do you assess mental maturity? Everyone is different? Is it determined whether or not a man can pierce the vagina? Scholars have been trying to unDerstanding the Qur'an for centuries and at the end of it all they say 'ALLAH KNOWS BEST!' Should they all stay celibate? Or should they turn to you and say BIGMO KNOWS BEST!?


    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #96 - June 30, 2014, 05:54 PM

    Listen Bigmo I have visited many Quranist sites and they have more rosy interpretation than yours. I don't believe in the Ahadith thanks to their brainwashing. But how can concubinage, whether forced or not be respectful?

    I see you are a deist and accept the better interpretations. But it still leaves many loopholes. Please refer to my first post in the thread. Even though I believe that the Ahadith can't be a part of Islam what other historical source is there to find out about Muhammad and past Islam fully?

    And how can the majority of the translators who translates dharaba as wife beating can be wrong? How do you know that the Quranists aren't playing tricks on us? To tell you the truth after seeing Quranist interpretations I long to learn Arabic just for this doubt. There is a guy named Happymurtad in CEMB. He is an expert in Arabic. Maybe you can ask him to verify things for you.

    And please forgive me for raging at you. This is the month of Ramadan and the people in my locality have become more adamant at throwing nasty comments at me just because I don't wear stole properly when out of my parents' sight. These eager-Muslims-only-on-Ramadan annoy the hell out of me. I am a human not a sexy body just because I am a woman!



    Maybe its because of that attitude you have towards them. If you want to invite people in a certain path you must do so in a way that does not make them think you have no respect for them.

    Anyways how do you interpret a concubine. I am curious since I believe many here do not know what a concubine is.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #97 - June 30, 2014, 05:55 PM

    How do you assess mental maturity? Everyone is different? Is it determined whether or not a man can pierce the vagina? Scholars have been trying to unDerstanding the Qur'an for centuries and at the end of it all they say 'ALLAH KNOWS BEST!' Should they all stay celibate? Or should they turn to you and say BIGMO KNOWS BEST!?

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    They should just look at what the Quran has to say about that.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #98 - June 30, 2014, 05:58 PM

    This is a truly stupid thing to say.




    No its not. Only Islamic traditions believe concubines have anything to do with slavery or prisoners of war. So there is a reason I am saying that the Sunni influence is strong here by some. Hagar was Abraham's concubine. All it means is an arrangement without dowry.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #99 - June 30, 2014, 06:00 PM

    Listen Bigmo I have visited many Quranist sites and they have more rosy interpretation than yours. I don't believe in the Ahadith thanks to their brainwashing. But how can concubinage, whether forced or not be respectful?

    I see you are a deist and accept the better interpretations. But it still leaves many loopholes. Please refer to my first post in the thread. Even though I believe that the Ahadith can't be a part of Islam what other historical source is there to find out about Muhammad and past Islam fully?

    And how can the majority of the translators who translates dharaba as wife beating can be wrong? How do you know that the Quranists aren't playing tricks on us? To tell you the truth after seeing Quranist interpretations I long to learn Arabic just for this doubt. There is a guy named Happymurtad in CEMB. He is an expert in Arabic. Maybe you can ask him to verify things for you.

    And please forgive me for raging at you. This is the month of Ramadan and the people in my locality have become more adamant at throwing nasty comments at me just because I don't wear stole properly when out of my parents' sight. These eager-Muslims-only-on-Ramadan annoy the hell out of me. I am a human not a sexy body just because I am a woman!



    All you have to do is look at the Quran.

    If the Quran says that if a man claimed he witnessed his wife committing adultery but still has to swear on oath and the woman can also swear on oath, how can it then say a person can "beat" someone just because of fear and suspicion which is what that verse says.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #100 - June 30, 2014, 06:03 PM

    Perhaps so but why can non-married and married people be equally protected?

    It doesn't get around the fact that men can have 4 wives and many 'wives' (concubines) whereas women cannot. Why is this, especially now with DNA tests?


    Why four wives? The Quran never said it has to be no more than four. In fact many prophets in the Bible had more than four. Anyways if a woman wants to have more than one man she is free to do so. Plus I think you understand concubine differently than how the Quran understand it.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #101 - June 30, 2014, 06:08 PM

    Maybe its because of that attitude you have towards them. If you want to invite people in a certain path you must do so in a way that does not make them think you have no respect for them.

    Anyways how do you interpret a concubine. I am curious since I believe many here do not know what a concubine is.


    It's not attitude. 98% of them are strangers. I come from a conservative country where a woman who doesn't wear stole properly is considered immoral. That's what you get in Islamic countries, although other faiths also influence people in the same manner.

    A concubine is a mistress. Be it Islamic or non-Islamic a concubine has a lower status than that of a girlfriend, fiancé or wife. Why should God/Islam support such a mean rule? God could just forbid it and punish those who practise concubinage. That will prevent many if not all Muslims from doing it. God is so sensitive about anyone not worshipping Him and He can't stop slavery and slave concubinage? Yes I mention slaves because you forcefully capture people and buy and sell them, when they are slaves. If a group of people harm you retaliate against them. Why imprison their family members and seize their wealth? I know that this rule is not followed by any war participant, but isn't Islam supposed to be fair and merciful?
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #102 - June 30, 2014, 06:11 PM

    All you have to do is look at the Quran.

    If the Quran says that if a man claimed he witnessed his wife committing adultery but still has to swear on oath and the woman can also swear on oath, how can it then say a person can "beat" someone just because of fear and suspicion which is what that verse says.


    I never said that beating is allowed for that case. It is allowed for disobedience. Sorry I should have written more clearly.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #103 - June 30, 2014, 06:14 PM

    Not really. America had slavery and there was very little women rights and labor rights. I was talking about the constitution. The limited government part is very Quranic as Quranic Islam does not believe in the authority of the state over the individual.

    Protestant in that there are no requirements for clerics or religious institutions and believe people can approach scriptures by themselves and scripture is the highest authority.




    You need to open a history book.

    No its not. Only Islamic traditions believe concubines have anything to do with slavery or prisoners of war. So there is a reason I am saying that the Sunni influence is strong here by some. Hagar was Abraham's concubine. All it means is an arrangement without dowry.


    Hagar was a slave given to Abraham's wife from the Pharaoh of Egypt. Which was still seen as a slave until someone had issues with conceiving a child. She was also exiled later one when conflict between the sons and mothers started. This is hardly a good example to make your point. Also a concubines is not a form of marriage, look up the word concubine..... Also concubines in Judaism had different right than that of the wife. This is why people attempt to communicate the difference between second or third wives and concubines.... because there are differences.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #104 - June 30, 2014, 06:18 PM

    They should just look at what the Quran has to say about that.


    You really don't get it do you?

    Nobody knows what the Qur'an REALLY says. Not even Muhammad knew what the Qur'an really says.

    Do you think that people gathered Hadith literature as a conspiracy as you suggest?

    It's because the Qur'an is vague and obscure on MANY issues.

    BIGMO...go debate the scholars and come back with your arse handed to you on a plate because you are failing at every turn.

    Your claims are truly funny about concubinage. Why accept your definition? Do you know better the words of Allah?

    Anyway...answer the questions three and I'll let thee be:

    1) Proof that God exists?
    2) How do you know the Qur'an is perfectly preserved?
    3) Why should we care about what the Qur'an says anyway?

    Please don't copy/paste wikipedia on here nor go off on some sect-bashing tangent. Answer straight please.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #105 - June 30, 2014, 06:42 PM

    They introduced another punishment for adultery called rajm, meaning stoning to death. This is not a Quranic concept and violates the soul for a soul argument where capital punishment can only be applied if the person commits intentional murder. Thats the proportional justice I was refering to.The punishment should always fit the crime. But when it came to slandering women the Quran invoked deterence justice.



    I don't understand why you remain focused on stoning to death as the only serious Islamic punishment, that is actually unislamic since it violates the proportionate justice ideals, when in actual fact the Quran still allows a woman to be killed if 4 witnesses exist.

    They can be confined to to their houses until death takes them (4:15), and this is, and has been used to justify locking females up without food, until they repent or they die.  This verse specifically refers to females too, it does not state that this same punishment is to be inflicted on the man.

    Removing the whole stoning someone to death does not remove the verse that allows a woman to be locked up until she dies, if she is found guilty. 

    That doesn't sound like proportionate justice to me.  No eye for an eye when a person dies for cheating. 


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #106 - June 30, 2014, 07:09 PM

    If the Bible allows slave concubinage then start worshipping Jesus Christ. I hate this hypocritical tactic of the Muslims cherry-picking other religions to establish their own.


    This is after all the basis of Islam it use external authority, which it ignores at times, to establish it's own credibility
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #107 - June 30, 2014, 08:42 PM

    Koranic law?

    Quote
    that their hands and feet should be cut off on alternate sides or that they should be sent into exile…” (Quran 5:33)


    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/20/somali-islamists-schoolboy-amputation-ordeal

    Quote
    Somali schoolboy tells of how Islamists cut off his leg and hand
    Ismael Khalif Abdulle's story provides rare insight into regime of al-Shabaab rebels trying to overthrow Somali government


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #108 - June 30, 2014, 10:31 PM

    Oh, NOW I get it! Just as rape is sex without consent!


    Yeah, it's like that! Because some people just don't want any dowry! They just want to be bound to some man, second fiddle, for giggles! They don't WANT to be equal to married people who have dowries/money! It makes so much sense now.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #109 - July 01, 2014, 01:33 AM

    Hey, Bigmo. I get most of what you're saying in here. I'm just wondering (and this was probably the hardest thing for me to dismiss at the end of the day), do you think the Quran bears any responsibility at all for this whole mess?

    You believe, as I once believed, that this is all human error. But do you think it was possible for the Quran to be more clear and less ambiguous? Do you really believe that, if you and I sat down and tried, we could not make a better guide for human life on Earth? Doesn't it seem a bit strange that God would send down a text that would guide men away from Hell and into salvation, but only a minority of humans on Earth would believe it, and an incredibly small percentage of those guys would understand it correctly?

    That was the hardest thing for me, I think. Trying to promote the Quran as a perfect guide, one worthy of constructing civilizations on, knowing that it is so very incompatible with humanity, whether it's because we're inclined to abuse it, misunderstand it, or otherwise just abandon it. And I am sure you will agree that it is clearly so very easy to abuse it.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #110 - July 01, 2014, 02:31 PM

    It's not attitude. 98% of them are strangers. I come from a conservative country where a woman who doesn't wear stole properly is considered immoral. That's what you get in Islamic countries, although other faiths also influence people in the same manner.

    A concubine is a mistress. Be it Islamic or non-Islamic a concubine has a lower status than that of a girlfriend, fiancé or wife. Why should God/Islam support such a mean rule? God could just forbid it and punish those who practise concubinage. That will prevent many if not all Muslims from doing it. God is so sensitive about anyone not worshipping Him and He can't stop slavery and slave concubinage? Yes I mention slaves because you forcefully capture people and buy and sell them, when they are slaves. If a group of people harm you retaliate against them. Why imprison their family members and seize their wealth? I know that this rule is not followed by any war participant, but isn't Islam supposed to be fair and merciful?


    I am talking about the definition of concubine from Bible. It has nothing to do with slavery. This was common among the Jews of Medina where the verses about concubines came. In Arabic its considered urfi marriage. Its a legitimate form of a relationship however its risky for a women since it can be denied by the man in case a pregnancy happens. Its a practice common among the poor or marriages between different tribes. The Biblical traditions separates this form of marriage from other forms of marriage. In fact most marriages today around the world are concubinage marriages.

    In Judaism[edit]

    In Judaism, concubines are referred to by the Hebrew term pillegesh. The term is a non-Hebrew, non-Semitic loanword derived from the Greek word, pallakis, Greek παλλακίς,[29][30][31] meaning "a mistress staying in house".

    According to the Babylonian Talmud,[7] the difference between a concubine and a full wife was that the latter received a marriage contract (Hebrew: ketubbah) and her marriage (nissu'in) was preceded by a formal betrothal (erusin). Neither was the case for a concubine. One opinion in the Jerusalem Talmud argues that the concubine should also receive a marriage contract, but without a clause specifying a divorce settlement.[7]

    Certain Jewish thinkers, such as Maimonides, believed that concubines were strictly reserved for kings, and thus that a commoner may not have a concubine. Indeed, such thinkers argued that commoners may not engage in any type of sexual relations outside of a marriage.

    Maimonides was not the first Jewish thinker to criticise concubinage. For example, Leviticus Rabbah severely condemns the custom.[32] Other Jewish thinkers, such as Nahmanides, Samuel ben Uri Shraga Phoebus, and Jacob Emden, strongly objected to the idea that concubines should be forbidden.

    In the Hebrew of the contemporary State of Israel, the word pillegesh is often used as the equivalent of the English word mistress—i.e., the female partner in extramarital relations—regardless of legal recognition. Attempts have been initiated to popularise pillegesh as a form of premarital, non-marital or extramarital relationship (which, according to the perspective of the enacting person(s), is permitted by Jewish law).[33][34][35]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concubinage#In_Judaism

    In the Quran only two options are given for prisoners of war. Freedom or ransom. The Quran considers taking care of prisoners of war as an act of charity also.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #111 - July 01, 2014, 02:33 PM

    Posted by: lua - Yesterday at 08:33 PM Quote this post
    Hey, Bigmo. I get most of what you're saying in here. I'm just wondering (and this was probably the hardest thing for me to dismiss at the end of the day), do you think the Quran bears any responsibility at all for this whole mess?

    You believe, as I once believed, that this is all human error. But do you think it was possible for the Quran to be more clear and less ambiguous? Do you really believe that, if you and I sat down and tried, we could not make a better guide for human life on Earth? Doesn't it seem a bit strange that God would send down a text that would guide men away from Hell and into salvation, but only a minority of humans on Earth would believe it, and an incredibly small percentage of those guys would understand it correctly?

    That was the hardest thing for me, I think. Trying to promote the Quran as a perfect guide, one worthy of constructing civilizations on, knowing that it is so very incompatible with humanity, whether it's because we're inclined to abuse it, misunderstand it, or otherwise just abandon it. And I am sure you will agree that it is clearly so very easy to abuse it.


    Well the Quran is already here and if humans want other sources what does God has to do with it. I debate Sunnis all the time and no matter how many verses I quote for many it does not move them although it makes them think.

    Even if the Quran is crystal clear about something (like freedom of religion) and has thousands of verses about something people will simply find a way out. Slavery is a very profitable business like smuggling and drug trade. Islamic authority simply tried to find an Islamic way to legalize it. But the Quran has nothing to do with this. People have freedom to obey or disobey. Without all those hadith sources slavery would have never been Islamically accepted but I doubt whether it would have ended it.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #112 - July 01, 2014, 02:40 PM

    I am talking about the definition of concubine from Bible. .....................s.

    In Judaism[edit]

    In Judaism, concubines .......

    According to the Babylonian Talmud,[7] ....................

    Certain Jewish thinkers,...............

    why are you talking about  concubines  from Bible ., Judaism, concubines,  Babylonian bitches   Big Mo .,

    You forgot about Mo., forgot about Koranic Law  and forgot about Shariah Law ., and you forgot Islam and now you into concubines and bitches??

    I ask you why?/

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #113 - July 01, 2014, 02:42 PM



    The verse you quoted was about intentional murder (the story of the two sons of Adam). The Quran only allowed capital punishment for intentional murder but also allowed exile from the community as a lower punishment especially if a person shows repentance. I have posted about that verse in detail. You need to read my posts first. Religious discussions are not made for the lazy. You need to first research. I noticed that the same questions keep coming again and again . Many here have preconceived notion, mostly about Shariah law and quote verses without actually looking at how and where they appear in the Quran.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #114 - July 01, 2014, 02:43 PM

    Is cross amputation justifiable?  Is it in the koran?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #115 - July 01, 2014, 02:45 PM

    why are you talking about  concubines  from Bible ., Judaism, concubines,  Babylonian bitches  Big Mo .,

    You forgot about Mo., forgot about Koranic Law  and forgot about Shariah Law ., and you forgot Islam and now you into concubines and bitches??

    I ask you why?/


    I don't consider this a contest. I am just explaining the Quranic point of view. Unfortunately the Quranist Islam is not that pervasive and many information about it are not available to many people yet. But its growing fast thanks to the internet.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #116 - July 01, 2014, 02:51 PM

    Is cross amputation justifiable?  Is it in the koran?


    I am not sure that is in the Koran although I am aware of the verses you are referring to. But it came when it dealt with intentional murder and amputation is a lesser punishment than capital punishment. It also was used in the Quran when the Pharaoh threatened the magicians who bowed to Moses. I am not sure this is what the term actually means.

    anyways as I have said the only justice the Quran recognizes is proportionate justice. The eye must be for an eye and not an eye lash. A tooth must be for a tooth and not a jaw. The Quran does not recognize disproportionate justice as Islamic and Judaic authority allow. In fact this was one of the criticism the Quran levied against the Jews, was their abandoning of proportionate Justice and allowing disproportionate justice.

    In the Quran the punishment should always fit the crime no matter what the circumstances. Justice is a big thing in the Quran since the Quran considers justice as God's most important characteristics.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #117 - July 01, 2014, 02:52 PM

    Quote
    they should be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet should be cut off on alternate sides or that they should be sent into exile…” (Quran 5:33)


    Did you read the article I linked to and how a cross amputation is carried out?  What do you think "their hands and feet should be cut off on alternate sides" means?

    I was puzzled why ISIS is crucifying people, now I know why.

    And if Isa is a prophet to you, what happened to him abolishing eye for an eye and replacing it with turn the other cheek?

    Quote
    Matthew 5:38-48New International Version (NIV)

    Eye for Eye
    38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

    Love for Enemies
    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.



    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #118 - July 01, 2014, 02:57 PM

    I don't understand why you remain focused on stoning to death as the only serious Islamic punishment, that is actually unislamic since it violates the proportionate justice ideals, when in actual fact the Quran still allows a woman to be killed if 4 witnesses exist.

    They can be confined to to their houses until death takes them (4:15), and this is, and has been used to justify locking females up without food, until they repent or they die.  This verse specifically refers to females too, it does not state that this same punishment is to be inflicted on the man.

    Removing the whole stoning someone to death does not remove the verse that allows a woman to be locked up until she dies, if she is found guilty.  

    That doesn't sound like proportionate justice to me.  No eye for an eye when a person dies for cheating.  




    The verse never said that they should be confined until death. Plus capital punishment can be allowed but only when there in intentional murder (soul for a soul). The verses about adultery talked about lashes and not death. But it was mainly concerned about slandering of women than adultery as the verses made it 4 times easier to hold a slanderer accountable than an adulterer. An adulterer just has to lie and who wouldn't when facing lashes. But a slanderer or an accuser has to produce four witnesses for his accusation or else he can get lashed. The Quran is not concerned about the truth here since it did not just say do not take any accusation without the four witnesses but actually said if 4 witlessness are not produced than the punishment should fall on him. Clearly this was a way to deter people making accusations. . I think that was due to the culture of honor killing very prevalent and still is in Arab tribal societies.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #119 - July 01, 2014, 02:58 PM

    I don't consider this a contest. I am just explaining the Quranic point of view. Unfortunately the Quranist Islam is not that pervasive and many information about it are not available to many people yet.

    Off course it is NOT a contest., otherwise Quran only Muslim would have won the battle looonng ago., some 1000 years ago Bigmo., So when did you became a Muslim to explain everything in Islam from  Quranic point of view?   Or  you just explain Quranic Law  to Muslim  folks  or you practice Quranic Law??

    Quote
    But its growing fast thanks to the internet.

    Well lot of things grow fast.,       Pornography grows fast on internet.. my hair grows fast .. so what?

    And Why this Quranic Law growing fast only on internet? Why not go to Mosques and Preach Quranic Law?  

    Do Muslims object for that?   Well please continue writing laws from Quran..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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