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 Topic: Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams

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  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #240 - July 10, 2014, 04:02 PM
    Quote from: Adey5 on July 05, 2014, 08:42 PM
    Well it can't be that easy if Bigmo is the only one in the world with the correct 'interpretation'....well according to Bigmo anyway.


    Many of my interpretations are actually the same as Sunnis and Shias. The difference is they believe in abrogated verses while I don't. Plus they believe the Sunnah can legislate while I do not.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #241 - July 10, 2014, 04:06 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 10, 2014, 03:57 PM
    I am a Quranist and I don't believe in evolution, at least not macro evolution................

    Well Big mo you yourself evolved from something else., the only problem seems to be  "You don't know that you are evolved."

    So why don't you believe in evolution??  Is that because you are Quranist??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #242 - July 10, 2014, 04:06 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on June 29, 2014, 11:31 PM
    I am curious about your interactions with unbelievers. Throughout the quran there's talk about the believers, and the kaffir. It's important to note the quran makes a huge distinction. Those who aren't muslims are inferior. The quran compares non muslims as beasts of burden, on the same level as animals, and according to some preachers worse than animals.

    Does this sit well with you?

     popcorn
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #243 - July 10, 2014, 05:05 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on July 10, 2014, 04:06 PM
    Well Big mo you yourself evolved from something else., the only problem seems to be  "You don't know that you are evolved."

    So why don't you believe in evolution??  Is that because you are Quranist??


    No, because the science behind it is not convincing.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #244 - July 10, 2014, 05:06 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on July 10, 2014, 04:06 PM
    popcorn


    That is for God to decide and not me.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #245 - July 10, 2014, 05:10 PM
    Does this sit well with you?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #246 - July 10, 2014, 05:20 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 10, 2014, 05:06 PM
    That is for God to decide and not me.

    yes.. god... what  god?  no god.. it is Allah.,

    Allah already decide through Quran & Muhammad (PBUH) .. what did Allah heeee decide?? well watch it..  Watch it Big Mo...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #247 - July 10, 2014, 05:22 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 10, 2014, 05:05 PM
    No, because the science behind it is not convincing.


    which science exactly is not convincing? What is your exact knowledge on evolution? Or do you mean the science contradicts the science of the quraan?
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #248 - July 10, 2014, 05:40 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 10, 2014, 05:05 PM
    No, because the science behind it is not convincing.

    What Science?   Science of Quran from Quranist Scientist??  or from some religious bum??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #249 - July 10, 2014, 05:47 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 10, 2014, 04:00 PM
    That is for God to decide and not me.

    I have seen some nasty characters by some people here. Lots of hate in this forum. So I do see some connection between a person's beliefs and his character. In the end its your deeds that determines your salvation.


    What you see is frustrations with a person, you, from other people, us, due to said person flip-flip on their views, creating views out of thin air or just making shit up as they go alone. Some people wont stand for this. You confuse this for hate, you confuse people rejecting your nonsense as hate. Then to finished it off you try to take the moral/religious high ground.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #250 - July 10, 2014, 06:05 PM
    A perfect example would be your lack of reply to the simple question I've asked repeatedly. It was simple. Instead of answering you replied about god deciding not you. I didn't ask about who decides these things, I asked very simply if such teachings, which I'm assuming you believe to be the word of your god and thus true, sit well with you? It's frustrating asking something and not getting a reply, especially when I've tried to be frank and honest with you. The first time you said
    Quote
    Quran understands believers and unbelievers as monotheism and those who don't believe in monotheism. The Quran says everyone will be judged fairly and everyone little seed of good he will face and every little seed of bad he will face. It says that many times. We all will be judged by our record. So I wouldn't worry about having a bad day in court.

     You seem to responding to a question I didn't ask. The second time you said
    Quote
    That is for God to decide and not me.

    Again, I didn't ask anything that would warrent that response. So, again:

    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on June 29, 2014, 11:31 PM
    I am curious about your interactions with unbelievers. Throughout the quran there's talk about the believers, and the kaffir. It's important to note the quran makes a huge distinction. Those who aren't muslims are inferior. The quran compares non muslims as beasts of burden, on the same level as animals, and according to some preachers worse than animals.

    Does this sit well with you?


    A simple question. Are you, personally, happy and satisfied with these teachings? What are your thoughts as an individual with your own mind?

    This is what I'm asking: Does the above sit well with you?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #251 - July 10, 2014, 06:12 PM
    Quote from: bogart on July 10, 2014, 05:47 PM
    What you see is frustrations with a person, you, from other people, us, due to said person flip-flip on their views, creating views out of thin air or just making shit up as they go alone. Some people wont stand for this. You confuse this for hate, you confuse people rejecting your nonsense as hate. Then to finished it off you try to take the moral/religious high ground.


    I know hate when I see it. There is  a lot of hate here.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #252 - July 10, 2014, 06:15 PM
    I don't feel hate.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #253 - July 10, 2014, 06:15 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on July 10, 2014, 05:40 PM
    What Science?   Science of Quran from Quranist Scientist??  or from some religious bum??


    Why do you always resort to insult and mockery?

    Just have an intellectual debate rather than mocking who has a different view to you.

    I am talking about this kind of stuff:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox8zY-YaZFo

  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #254 - July 10, 2014, 08:36 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 10, 2014, 06:15 PM
    Why do you always resort to insult and mockery?

    Just have an intellectual debate rather than mocking who has a different view to you.

      Then Stop mixing science of 21st century with Quran or some other silly book written some 1000 year ago.. .,  But No..nooo Insults.,  Just mocking Bigmo Just mocking

    What intellectual debate  can any one  do with Quran, OT, NT  & other mambo jumbo  religious gibberish and Science??   crazy??  
    Quote
    I am talking about this kind of stuff:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox8zY-YaZFo


    Huh! you found a guy? that guy?    The U of Penn Behe ??  I know him and his science more than you know.  Tell him to go to that  Indian Cultish group   ISKCON permanently and write science books for them..  

     Bigmo there is IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE on evolution., what is missing at the best is  details and people are slugging away on it.,

    Let us not drift from Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law  but what  other alternative theory for this biological diversity  did that theoretical biochemist Michael Behe proposed?  Do you have any idea??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #255 - July 10, 2014, 09:08 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 10, 2014, 06:12 PM
    I know hate when I see it. There is  a lot of hate here.


    Hey Bigmo, sorry if  have been disparaging about you arguments in any exchanges here, but I am pretty sure that no-one here actually hates you or any group of people. I bet you are probably a really nice intelligent guy, which is all the more reason why we are surprised that you try to defend some of the claims and ideas (scientific and moral), about the quran and the existence of any gods in general.

    We do not think that religious people are stupid, in fact we are more baffled why so many intelligent and nice people actually support some of this stuff.

    I will say to you, as I say to christians/jews etc,...... I think you are wiser, more powerful, and morally superior to the god you worship.
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #256 - July 10, 2014, 10:38 PM
    Yeah, you seem to have some difficulty making the important distinction between having your ideas criticized and having yourself criticized, Bigmo. Although, at least in our exchanges, you were the first to get uncivil, and you probably could help matters with everyone else by actually replying to the messages directing at you instead of cherry picking which ones seem easiest. Then we'd feel a lot less like we were talking to a brick wall and we could have a real discussion.

    I think the only time you ever got negativity aimed right at you was when you were harassing another member, and the reactions you got were totally and completely justified. But I have a very short list of people I hate, and you aren't on it, and I'm certain most members here are the same.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #257 - July 11, 2014, 07:41 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 10, 2014, 04:00 PM
    That is for God to decide and not me.

    "In the end its your deeds that determines your salvation."


    Er......Quran 18 100-105

    "On that day we shall present hell to the disbelievers, plain to view, Those whose eyes were hoodwinked from My reminder, and who could not bear to hear.  Do the disbelievers reckon that they can choose My bondmen as protecting friends beside Me? Lo! We have prepared hell as a welcome for the disbelievers. Say: Shall We inform you who will be the greatest losers by their works? Those whose effort goeth astray in the life of the world, and yet they reckon that they do good work. Those are they who disbelieve in the revelations of their Lord and in the meeting with Him. Therefore their works are vain, and on the Day of Resurrection We assign no weight to them. That is their reward: hell, because they disbelieved. "

    You make a claim that good deeds can get you into heaven (if that is true, then belief in god is unnecessary), but the above verses contradict your claim, which either show that you haven't read it enough, or you are lying to make the quran sound better than it is.

    You claim to be a 'Quranist', but the Quran strongly disagrees with you.

    As you say," it is for god to decide".
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #258 - July 11, 2014, 08:17 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 10, 2014, 05:05 PM
    No, because the science behind it is not convincing.


    Dude, we have heard some arguments from some Imams and some prominent Muslims (eg Usama Hasan, Adam Deen) who claim the Quran actually proves evolution and is consistent with natural selection and so-called 'macro-evolution', which is only lots of micro-evolutionary events, accumulating to result in large changes over billions of years.

    Its like saying "I can understand 'micro-ageing' (ie. a baby growing into a toddler) but MACRO-ageing (ie. a baby turning into a pensioner) is just unbelievable!! Show me a half-baby / half-pensioner!!"
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #259 - July 11, 2014, 08:20 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 10, 2014, 06:12 PM
    I know hate when I see it. There is  a lot of hate here.


    Again you see people rejecting your ideas, finding problems with your methodology, pointing out these flaws and coming to the conclusion you are dishonest(mine). This is not hate.

    The hate card is easy to use, difficult to prove and always used when someone is stuck in a corner unable to defend their position.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #260 - July 11, 2014, 08:25 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 10, 2014, 04:00 PM
    That is for God to decide and not me.


    Bigmo, this is you trying to shirk your responsibility for the beliefs that you hold. You want to blame it all on the book and say its all gods fault.


    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #261 - July 12, 2014, 10:57 PM
    Quote from: bogart on July 11, 2014, 08:20 PM
    Again you see people rejecting your ideas, finding problems with your methodology, pointing out these flaws and coming to the conclusion you are dishonest(mine). This is not hate.

    The hate card is easy to use, difficult to prove and always used when someone is stuck in a corner unable to defend their position.


    Do I look like I am having trouble defending my positions? I think some of you got used to talking in a certain way  that you see it as normal.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #262 - July 12, 2014, 11:04 PM
    Quote from: Adey5 on July 11, 2014, 08:25 PM
    Bigmo, this is you trying to shirk your responsibility for the beliefs that you hold. You want to blame it all on the book and say its all gods fault.





    The Quran says that every deed will appear on judgement day and all deeds will be put to a scale.

    And fear a Day when you will be returned to Allah . Then every soul will be compensated for what it earned, and they will not be treated unjustly. 2.281

    So how will it be when We assemble them for a Day about which there is no doubt? And each soul will be compensated [in full for] what it earned, and they will not be wronged. 3.25

    It is not [attributable] to any prophet that he would act unfaithfully . And whoever betrays, will come with what he took on the Day of Resurrection. Then will every soul be [fully] compensated for what it earned, and they will not be wronged. 3.161
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #263 - July 12, 2014, 11:09 PM
    Quote from: Adey5 on July 11, 2014, 08:17 PM
    Dude, we have heard some arguments from some Imams and some prominent Muslims (eg Usama Hasan, Adam Deen) who claim the Quran actually proves evolution and is consistent with natural selection and so-called 'macro-evolution', which is only lots of micro-evolutionary events, accumulating to result in large changes over billions of years.

    Its like saying "I can understand 'micro-ageing' (ie. a baby growing into a toddler) but MACRO-ageing (ie. a baby turning into a pensioner) is just unbelievable!! Show me a half-baby / half-pensioner!!"


    The case for evolution is very weak actually. But there are Quranist who believe in it. There are Quranic arguments that talk about life coming to existence in stages but this is not the issue. Evolution claims that species evolved into another after a length of time.

    " which is only lots of micro-evolutionary events, accumulating to result in large changes over billions of years"

    Now that is some wild speculation.

    What does this has to do with Koranic law versus Shariah law ?
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #264 - July 12, 2014, 11:17 PM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 12, 2014, 10:57 PM
    Do I look like I am having trouble defending my positions? I think some of you got used to talking in a certain way  that you see it as normal.


    I think you are when you employ a double-standard as I noted in your views of what the Torah laws says compared to what local Arab Jews said. Like I said you want us to look at the Quran but not other sources. When asked to do the same you flip-flop and says what a text says doesn't matter. It is tradition which matters. Like I said before your lack of principles renders some of your arguments self-refuting.

    In what way any I talking which is not normal but seen by myself as normal? Point out inconsistencies in your arguments? I guess to someone who fails to see such inconsistencies in their own argument then promptly ignores these errors when directed to the issues my way of talking wouldn't be normal.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #265 - July 13, 2014, 11:00 AM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 12, 2014, 11:09 PM
    The case for evolution is very weak actually.


    Only if you have a completely uninformed and incorrect understanding of the theory, the vast evidential basis that lies behind it, its consistency and consilience with physics, chemistry and other areas of scientific research, and have failed to come to grips with the weaknesses of the philosophical and theological objections to it.

  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #266 - July 13, 2014, 11:16 AM
    Quote from: bogart on July 12, 2014, 11:17 PM
    I think you are when you employ a double-standard as I noted in your views of what the Torah laws says compared to what local Arab Jews said. Like I said you want us to look at the Quran but not other sources. When asked to do the same you flip-flop and says what a text says doesn't matter. It is tradition which matters. Like I said before your lack of principles renders some of your arguments self-refuting.

    In what way any I talking which is not normal but seen by myself as normal? Point out inconsistencies in your arguments? I guess to someone who fails to see such inconsistencies in their own argument then promptly ignores these errors when directed to the issues my way of talking wouldn't be normal.


    Most Muslims will find many of the posts here as offensive. That is not good if you want to educate people or even influence them towards your path. Maybe some see this forum as a way to express their hostility towards anything Islamic. Many Muslims will lave this forum equating leaving Islam with hostility towards anything Islamic. Many Muslims have families and friends who are Muslims and were Muslims themselves. So I am not sure what the benefit of such rhetoric will serve.

    I have an alternative interpretation and I have some knowledge making it possible for me to counter. But I am using the Quran. many Muslims may be curious of who ex Muslims are and are going to leave this forum with a very negative attitude about ex Muslims are people who are consumed with hostility and even hate.

    There are similarity between some of the arguments here and some of the Neocons like Ayaan Ali, Wafa Sultan, Robert Spencer, Franklin Graham, John Hagee and Deert Wilders. These guys do not care about what Muslims or anybody thinks, their audience are really American audiences most of all. As long as their audience support Israel against its enemies (who are all Muslims as we know) they are happy. But what many here are gaining is beyond me.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #267 - July 13, 2014, 11:22 AM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 13, 2014, 11:16 AM
    Deert Wilders.

    Dutch for 'dirt'.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #268 - July 13, 2014, 11:26 AM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 12, 2014, 11:09 PM
    The case for evolution is very weak actually.

    Kinda like saying the case for photosynthesis is very weak, or the case for metabolism, or the case for pregnancy, or the case for [insert observed natural phenomenon here].
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Koranic Law Versus Shariah Law - two different Islams
     Reply #269 - July 13, 2014, 11:29 AM
    Quote from: Bigmo on July 13, 2014, 11:16 AM
    Most Muslims will find many of the posts here as offensive. That is not good if you want to educate people or even influence them towards your path. Maybe some see this forum as a way to express their hostility towards anything Islamic. Many Muslims will lave this forum equating leaving Islam with hostility towards anything Islamic. Many Muslims have families and friends who are Muslims and were Muslims themselves. So I am not sure what the benefit of such rhetoric will serve.

    I have an alternative interpretation and I have some knowledge making it possible for me to counter. But I am using the Quran. many Muslims may be curious of who ex Muslims are and are going to leave this forum with a very negative attitude about ex Muslims are people who are consumed with hostility and even hate.

    There are similarity between some of the arguments here and some of the Neocons like Ayaan Ali, Wafa Sultan, Robert Spencer, Franklin Graham, John Hagee and Deert Wilders. These guys do not care about what Muslims or anybody thinks, their audience are really American audiences most of all. As long as their audience support Israel against its enemies (who are all Muslims as we know) they are happy. But what many here are gaining is beyond me.


    What are you rambling on about you fool?

    For starters, I will defend any attempts to vilify and stereotype Muslims in GENERAL. This is different to criticising ISLAM or the QURAN. That you may find some similarity between some peoples opinions and the 'neocons' that you cited will largely be conincidental.

    Hey Bigmo, do you believe that animals have rights to be free from unjust physical abuse and that such rights should be enshrined in law? Yes? Well so did Hitler! You two are SO alike. Your own logic defeats you.

    Unicorns for life.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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