de brainwashing?

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- Radon123
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de brainwashing?
OP - July 07, 2014, 01:45 AM

Has anyone on this forum before ever been radicalized and have they/you come back from it to normality/leaving Islam? If the answer is yes, how do I do it for myself? I just feel like I've been brainwashed and it is very difficult to think independently now...
- bogart
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Reply #1 - July 07, 2014, 01:55 AM

I was in my youth. I think you have already taken the first steps by acknowledging indoctrination and searching for answers to questions you have and asking others to challenge your, or indoctrination based view you have.
- Radon123
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Reply #2 - July 07, 2014, 02:06 AM

Right, thank you.

It just feels like no matter how hard I try to convince myself of things such as that allah does not exist, that the quran is not a linguistic inimitable miracle, it seems like the indoctrination I have been exposed to just keeps pulling me back. One of my main problems is that I do not know Arabic so I cannot read the Quran for myself to find out if it is a miracle or not. I have been told that Many non-Muslim Arabs think that the Quran is a miracle, but I do not know this for sure

Like for instance, how can we be so sure that this universe is completely material/physical? What if the supernatural does exist? What if most likely the universe is completely material/physical, but there exists a small chance of it having a supernatural occurrence as well? How do I determine if the Quran is inimitable or not? Are there objective ways of determining if a piece of literature is inimitable? What do Muslims mean when they say that the Quran is inimitable?
- three
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Reply #3 - July 07, 2014, 02:58 AM

I think some logic will help you. I have struggled a lot myself with conditioning. There are many members here fluent in Arabic, who are ex-Muslims. Why would they reject Islam and the Quran itself if it seemed miraculous?
Many of them understand and have studied classical Arabic.
Why would the Quran exhort Muslims to kill apostates, and why does that sentencing have a place in Shariah if Islam is not compulsory? It is a scary thing, and members here understand how you feel.
Poke around more, keep reading, and go easy on yourself. Change doesn't happen on a dime for most of us. More knowledge will help a lot. Keep asking questions. You deserve answers.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- David
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Reply #4 - July 07, 2014, 03:13 AM

Quote from: Radon123 on July 07, 2014, 02:06 AM
What if most likely the universe is completely material/physical, but there exists a small chance of it having a supernatural occurrence as well?

Cleverer people will give you cleverer answers, but I'd say that love in its many and varied forms is pretty supernatural.

Quote
How do I determine if the Quran is inimitable or not?

I copied and pasted this from the forum the other day because I thought it was so good. I forgot to make a note of who wrote it, Lua perhaps.

'Do you think it was possible for the Quran to be more clear and less ambiguous? Do you really believe that, if you and I sat down and tried, we could not make a better guide for human life on Earth? '
- lua
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Reply #5 - July 07, 2014, 03:33 AM

^ Aw! Thanks.

Radon, the thing about the Quran being a linguistic miracle is just about the silliest thing ever, pay it no mind. It is a desperate attempt to make Islam rise above and beyond the other religions in the absence of anything more compelling. The Quran is no more spectacular (and, in my opinion, far less so) than many other surviving works from that time or earlier, and what makes it "inimitable" has never really been defined. It is a challenge without parameters, and I could so easily say that about many other works in many different languages and then confuse the critics by saying they'd have to have studied for years some ancient version of that language to even begin to comprehend it.

You should try reading some poetry from al-Maari, who was a brilliant Arabic speaker and poet, not to mention an early vocal critic of the Quran. Plenty of people like him read it and found nothing miraculous about it, but they were often not quite so loud or numerous as those who passionately revered it.
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