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Theme Changer

 Topic: Planning to marry a Muslim

 (Read 40729 times)
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  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #60 - July 09, 2014, 01:16 PM

    lol suki is right, it only matters what you think and feel Smiley

    Good luck

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #61 - July 09, 2014, 01:23 PM

     thnkyu

    Should have stayed in. Read a book instead.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #62 - July 09, 2014, 01:23 PM

    I do want to add that, in cohabitation relationships, couples do tend to divvy up the chores, so finding a woman who will iron or do x and y while you cook is not even a little bit rare and that arrangement can be made with most women, I think. The husband and I traded jobs so that neither of us have to do our least favorite chores anymore.

    Interestingly, I remember one of the reasons my husband listed for wanting to get married to me is that every Saudi knows that when he gets married, "His life becomes an easy life, he has someone to take care about him, and the house without a woman is nothing." The poor, sweet man had no idea what was coming. I guess I didn't, either. Grin

    Well, either way, let us know how it turns out, Nas. It'll be cool if you two somehow beat the odds. If not, I don't think any of us will be assholes about it and give you a hard time if you want to come here for support.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #63 - July 09, 2014, 01:31 PM

    What Lua said: we'll be kind. We can talk about Goodfellas and football.

    Do keep us posted!

    The future is full of thrilling possibilities.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #64 - July 09, 2014, 01:36 PM

    Thank you for your kind words.

    Yes I really want to get the point across that I am not that kind of guy! Balance in a relationship is everything to me, and if need be I'll pick up the iron, once I figure out how to use it...

    Should have stayed in. Read a book instead.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #65 - July 09, 2014, 01:52 PM

    It's cool, you can like certain traits in a woman, to each his own. I think the only reason that you really got a reaction from that is it just doesn't seem like the most solid set of reasons to get married, or else you could just as easily get married to any other pretty girl who would iron and be maternal and loving who is also in the Psychology program at your school. But still, I find it hard to really put down on paper why I've ever liked anybody, so it might come off as a cheap list like that.

    Forgive me, but I get the feeling that you do not have a lot of experience with this sort of thing, and a real naivete seems to come through the words you've written on this thread. I still stand by what I said, and your case sounds like a case of young or first love, maybe even on both sides. And that's not a bad thing, really, I think we've all been there, and especially the first time around, the human reaction is to toss the manual over your shoulder and go for the experimental approach, especially when you have outside pressure like you both do now. If it's a mistake, sometimes you've got to just make that mistake for yourself.

    I laughed at the ironing fantasy thing, but honestly, I remember being kind of like that, too. I was excited to start cleaning and learning how to cook and doing all these chores for the husband. And it was really exciting and things were great for a while. But after you've done it so many times, the novelty wears off, and the excitement wears off, and you're going to be left with just the two of you and it will all come down to the stark reality of how compatible you really are and how substantial your love is or could be. I hope you luck out. And it really does require some luck.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #66 - July 09, 2014, 01:59 PM

    Good luck in which ever option you choose but still I really think you should put your emotions aside for a a minute and sit down by yourself and think rationally about it.   

    And maybe consider signing a pre nup agreement written by your lawyer before getting married.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #67 - July 09, 2014, 02:19 PM

    Thanks again, yeah lua, I am naive when it comes to relationships simply because of a lack of experience.

    I don't believe in finding the one, I feel if you enjoy the company of your partner and genuinely miss them when they aren't with you, then that's a great place to be.

    Should have stayed in. Read a book instead.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #68 - July 09, 2014, 02:26 PM

    I don't believe in finding the one, either...but I did have to learn the hard way that enjoying the company of someone and missing them in their absence is a condition that might pass under strain, and a marriage, particularly between a Muslim and an apostate, can be hugely stressful.

    One last bit of advice...it doesn't sound like the most feasible thing ever in your situation, but try to see if you two can prolong this for a while and live together, even if it just means one of you spends most of the time over at the other person's place while keeping up the appearances of living separately. If you two can get through a year of being with each other every day and playing house every day and you're still starry-eyed about her, that's a better sign than the ones you're giving off now.

    Who knows, in a year you might even hate the sound of her shuffling around your room or clearing her throat, and that's a great thing to realize before there's the pressure to keep a marriage together and avoid the feelings of embarrassment or failure sometimes associated with divorce.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #69 - July 09, 2014, 02:31 PM

    Oh man I wish that was possible. Before Ramadan we did spend a considerable amount of time together, which is the closest I've got to your idea. And it was good, we argued much less for some reason, obviously it wasn't a year long or anything, I'd say it was three months and probably the best three months of our relationship.

    Should have stayed in. Read a book instead.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #70 - July 09, 2014, 02:38 PM

    On a side note, the husband and I didn't fight even once all throughout the time we knew each other and were engaged, and the first few months of our marriage also went by without issue. I didn't even think it was possible that we could have a real argument back then. Skip two years into the future, and I'm surprised we're still both living. Grin

    A few months is pretty easy, but it's good that you two did well. Try it again if you ever get the opportunity.  yes
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #71 - July 09, 2014, 02:40 PM

    Nas, don't let the prejudice of others, which is coloured by their particular experiences sway you.

    As mentioned before, just because she is Muslim and wants to raise her children as Muslim doesn't need to cause too much concern. Communicate with her. When some people say 'I want to raise my child as a good Muslim' what they mean is 'a good law abiding person'. But you must talk to her and ask what she means.

    And no matter what anyone says, most the issues that could be attributed to marrying a Muslim or raising a child as 'Muslim' are common to other categories too. Whose to say that marrying an atheist will not result in a sudden conversion to crazy town version of religion? That's why you should talk more, laugh with each other, make love and grow together.

    Tell her your side and be fair to her. She sounds lovely.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #72 - July 09, 2014, 02:48 PM

    Yeah, we both feel that when raising a child, giving them the opportunity to be academically successful and respectful towards others, and teaching them morals is the primary goal. Everything else really comes secondary, even in her eyes, raising them as Muslims is more to do with the fact that she's a Muslim by name too and we both have strong pressures from our parents to do so.

    Should have stayed in. Read a book instead.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #73 - July 09, 2014, 03:06 PM

    On a side note, the husband and I didn't fight even once all throughout the time we knew each other and were engaged, and the first few months of our marriage also went by without issue. I didn't even think it was possible that we could have a real argument back then. Skip two years into the future, and I'm surprised we're still both living. Grin

    A few months is pretty easy, but it's good that you two did well. Try it again if you ever get the opportunity.  yes

    What was the situation before you were married? Since he's Saudi I'm assuming you wouldn't have lived together first like most western couples. Personally I can't see myself ever marring someone I haven't lived with for at least a year or two.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #74 - July 09, 2014, 03:23 PM

    When we were engaged, we spent a lot of time together, mostly on the road, but never spent the night at one another's house, and did the whole wait-until-the-wedding-night thing. Dating for a year or two would have been a lot better in retrospect.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #75 - July 09, 2014, 03:30 PM

    Just be careful if you're young. You've not explored what's out there in the world. Just settling for the sake of it isn't a good idea, especially if you have an explorer mind...and seek new experiences, to understand the world better etc, you'll only feel tied down. She's not the only girl in the world...Don't go for her because she's the 'easy option'. If you genuinely love her, and think she's the one for marriage to *you* and to your future life -kids, mortgage etc, then go for it.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #76 - July 09, 2014, 05:04 PM

    I'd say the honeymoon feeling wears off after a year and reality sets in, it took me a whole year to fully realise that i had made a huuuuge mistake.. But he was my first and last so far so i was a bit naive i guess so..  :(

    xxx
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #77 - July 09, 2014, 05:21 PM

    You start noticing who the person you married really is around 6-12 months after you moved in together. It's also around this time you start realizing if you've made a mistake or not.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #78 - July 09, 2014, 05:56 PM

    All the advice given thus far is generic advice, though much needed, that applies to everyone and anyone and not specific to a person in your situation Naz. No matter how many times you get married/divorced you are likely to encounter the same issues.

    Here's some advice I wish I was given:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qsiDAQXE0M

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #79 - July 09, 2014, 08:08 PM

    If there is one thing I have learned in life regarding other people's advice it is this- listen to it, carefully consider it, even take it on board if it looks like & feels like good advice BUT never, ever be afraid to reject it outright if it doesn't feel like the right advice for YOU in YOUR circumstances and life.
    As for raising children as muslims, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you don't enforce every single aspect of it zealously & also allow them to make their own minds up about it when they are old enough.

    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #80 - July 09, 2014, 08:46 PM

    Still if your potential wife isn't 100% totally ok with you being an apostate or willing to have a conversation about your apostasy I would be really careful.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #81 - July 09, 2014, 09:15 PM

    Compatible Meter:
    - Similar level of education. It does not mean both should be PhD. One can be PhD and other counld have a university degree. But intellectually they are compatible.
    - One likes to read but the spouse hates books - big problem.
    - Same ideas about how to spend money. If you want to save then buy a used car but your spouse wants to borrow to buy an expensive car - big problem.
    - Similar sense of humour. If your spouse takes seriously every silly joke you make - big problem.
    - Similar moral values, if not - big problem.
    - Agreement on how to bring up children. One wants children to be Muslims the other one is an apostate - REALLY BIG PROBLEM.
    - Equating infatuation with love - major problem.
    - Ability to put yourself in your spouse's position and trying to understand - otherwise a big problem.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #82 - July 09, 2014, 11:53 PM

    Saying my wife won't matter at all? Wow that's a bit of jump isn't it.

    I'm also pretty confident that I can keep the concept of hell away from the child as long as possible. That's one big factor, a deal breaker if you will in what I'll allow my wife to teach them.




    No. It's not a jump. I have kids. If you cannot imagine, just ask yourself, does a mother save her husband first from a burning house, or her child? When you pick between anyone, you pick your kids first, and you also choose what is best for them, without apologies. That is just how it is. If a parent behaves otherwise, it is shocking and sad.
    I think the only way to keep the concept of hell away from Muslims is to keep a distance from the Quran and it's recitation. Also away from the word kaffir. Hell is too prevalent in the Quran and thus in namaaz.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #83 - July 10, 2014, 12:53 PM

    Marriage is a commitment that should not be taken lightly. Getting married young is a MISTAKE, no matter how many happy couples you maybe know who married young. They are exceptions or they are the result of practices from another time. If I had gotten married at age 22/23 like I wanted at the time, it would have been the biggest mistake of my life because I simply was not the same person (regarding religion, and also a whole lot of issues) and there's still so much room to grow. I do believe that you aren't fully formed as a person at that age and thus shouldn't make decisions that would impact your life in an irreversible way. Being in love is not a valid enough reason for getting married. Love fades. Feelings change. People change. You can fall in love several times in the span of a few years. If this current relationship ends, you will most likely fall in love again. You can't base a marriage, the founding of a family, on feelings alone. You need a stronger basis than that. You need to agree on fundamental issues, religion and children's education being one of the most important ones. 

    Of course now you feel like you can agree to her demands, like you can live a lie and let her indoctrinate your children. It doesn't seem like a big deal. In a few years it might become a big deal. This very forum has several cases in which those issues became a huge deal and led to sad consequences. One day you might wake up and resent your wife for putting you through that. One day it might lead to the destruction of your family.

    Marriage and long-lasting relationships should be more about mutual respect and understanding and a strong partnership than about love, lust and pleasing one's parents, and whether your girlfriend is "good wife material)

    Take a few years to really consider.

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #84 - July 10, 2014, 01:08 PM


    I can also add great listener, great under the bedsheets, and has motherly qualities that I also find very attractive about her, so I'm sorry for the bleak picture I painted about us.



    She's a devout Muslim; yet sexually active outside of marriage? Interesting..

    Regarding everything else, it seems like to much of a burden to carry for the rest of your life. In the end you know best about your circumstances.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #85 - July 10, 2014, 02:44 PM

    I do believe that you aren't fully formed as a person at that age and thus shouldn't make decisions that would impact your life in an irreversible way. Being in love is not a valid enough reason for getting married. Love fades. Feelings change. People change. You can fall in love several times in the span of a few years. If this current relationship ends, you will most likely fall in love again.

    Of course now you feel like you can agree to her demands, like you can live a lie and let her indoctrinate your children. It doesn't seem like a big deal. In a few years it might become a big deal. This very forum has several cases in which those issues became a huge deal and led to sad consequences. One day you might wake up and resent your wife for putting you through that. One day it might lead to the destruction of your family.

    Marriage and long-lasting relationships should be more about mutual respect and understanding and a strong partnership than about love, lust and pleasing one's parents, and whether your girlfriend is "good wife material


    This is perhaps the best advice someone can give you.
    If you love this girl, date her, enjoy her company, have fun. That's the part of her you are enjoying right now.
    You probably won't even be exposed to the other side... that of marriage until you are actually married. Have you even had time to properly meet her parents and hang out with them?

    But marriage is a step higher that demands more thought than just 'we have fun together'.

    I can't emphasize that agreements you make now might just be in your head. I made agreements and they feel more confining that anything, like being stripped of any future power. Marriage is enough of a ball and chain, not to add heavier balls and more chains Tongue you get the point. In my case, we both 'çancelled'our agreements realizing that we were both just using it to bash each other over the head with it. It's not healthy. Marriage is enough of a commitment to stay with one person. No need to bog it down with more detailed life long agreements.

    My big fear was that she would become more religious as she got older. We agreed she'd never wear hijab. But what is that really worth? If she changes, she changes.
    She feared I'd become more athiest than agnostic. We agreed I wouldn't go that far and what is that really worth? If I change, I change.

    If the changes are too great, then both of us can decide it is not worth it and leave the marriage. But the idea of agreements in my experience is just about trying to control another person that you really can't control.

    And if you have to create an agreement on something so fundamental, there is something fundamentally wrong with the marriage. Kids, religion, family life... these are fundamentals. They mean a heck of a lot more to people when push comes to shove.

    You say, you're okay raising your kids Muslim as you feel you have to pretend now anyways for the sake of your families. This is perhaps true. What if you become more assertive and proud of your beliefs where you want to be open. What if you parents pass away and that issue stops being an issue for you? What does that mean for her? Would she be okay with it?

    If you love her and trust her and enjoy her company, do what is good for you.
    But take marriage seriously, and take some of the advice, be careful of hiding fundamental issues behind agreements.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #86 - July 10, 2014, 03:26 PM

    Yes one thing I realised is if you entering a marriage fulled with conditions, you should really take a step back. MArraige should be about accepting each other, exactly as you are, not one person wanting to change another or cancel out another.

    But a young heart can not be swayed, this I know as well, when we young we think we have it figured out, sometimes learning our own way is the best path to take,

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #87 - October 11, 2014, 10:14 PM

    Hi,

    She sounds exactly like my ex-girlfriend. British Pakistani, extremely pretty, muslim, educated, superficially charming, perfect girl for parents etc. She was also domestically minded, wanting to settle down, attentive and caring. She was also unfortunately riddled with hypocrisies, cognitive dissonances and inconsistencies in a similar way as to how you describe your partner -for example she also was 'great between the sheets' despite claiming to be a religious muslim, and loved flirting with guys and indulging the attention she got due to her own attractiveness. She also initially claimed she was ok with my apostasy/agnosticism, but later became more worried by it all, and behind my back was slagging off how crazy I was to her muslim friends, as I found out through various sources. (And she of course totally denied having slept with me, after I dumped her).

    Later ended up getting pregnant by a different muslim guy (who also dumped her) and, I think, quickly marrying some other poor sod who thinks the baby is his. Extremely messy. Glad I got the hell out of there. Of course she's still into Islam and posting meaningless islamic and pseudopolitical nonsense on her facebook and twitter, the hypocrisy of some 'muslims' astounds me.

    I think you're getting infatuated with the idea that due to her attractiveness, apparent compliance with your religious outlook, and compatible family backgrounds that she will be right for you; however I do think it will get complicated and difficult later if you aren't straight up and confident with both yourself and her about what you truly believe and on what basis, and how you would want kids to be brought up.

     In my situation , after ending it with my muslim girlfriend, I met and started dating a Christian girl and we've just got engaged. My mum hates it, but I've made it clear it's happening, and that's it. Any kids will learn all about islam , christianity (she's very open minded and questioning, but still considers herself vaguely christian) and agnostic/atheist attitudes. It's going to be tough, but I really don't think I could pretend to be muslim, marry a muslim, and bring up muslim kids - it's too much pretending. One pretence is probably the limit, and  I think 'pretending' to be muslim is a something of a necessity for family sensitivities-  but beyond that, you won't really be yourself, as a confident man should be. Muslims can legitimately marry christians and jews (who are mostly pretty secular and liberal anyway) ( the main advantage of this, other than not having to endure islamic judgmental nonsense of course is that you can enjoy a glass of wine or a beer with your in-laws like most other civilized humans on the planet)-and as for kids, they can do whatever as long as they have muslimmy sounding names, so I wouldn't get stuck into a potential web of lies and complications at this stage yet - you're still young.

    Any thoughts from others on the above approach? I'm engaged remember, not married yet - so time will tell. Incidentally, a nikah ceremony for a muslim man to a christian/jewish woman is exactly the same as for muslim to muslim.
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #88 - November 06, 2014, 06:20 PM

    A friend of mine did something similar
    Don't do it,  you'll regret it

    Run my dear, from anything that may not strengthen your precious budding wings
  • Planning to marry a Muslim
     Reply #89 - November 06, 2014, 06:47 PM

    Am I your friend? Am I that friend? If so, I'm sorry that we haven't seen each other in a while, or had a drink or a smoke or a line together for a while. I've been tied up in my own troubles and in my own laziness. I do still think of you occasionally and my thoughts and good wishes go out to you. I really hope we catch up soon, hopefully over a pint of Guinness, with the sun shining on us, and some pretty girls smiling upon on.

    Hi
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