Metaphysical naturalism vs theism

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- Qtian
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Metaphysical naturalism vs theism
OP - July 27, 2014, 05:36 PM

This will be a thread dedicated to the evidential problem of theism (which is a subset of supernaturalism).
Basically, evidentiary arguments against theism generally adopt a Bayesian form as opposed to a frequentist one.
According to Bayes' theorem (which is used in probability) "evidence" is seen as something which is more likely on event A than on event B.
It also takes into account prior probabilities, e.g:

theism:
- There is a God who directly intervenes in the Universe.
- There is a heaven/hell.
- Life is a test from God.
- Basically, anything which is attributed to supernaturalism is de facto an assumption of theism.

Metaphysical naturalism:

- The belief that everything arises from natural properties and causes.
- Supernaturalism is not real.

As you can see, theism makes more assumptions than (Metaphysical) naturalism. As a result of this, the prior probability of theism being true < the prior probability of Naturalism being true.

Taking all of this into account, I want to compile a thread full of evidentiary arguments against theism.
Feel free to contribute.

My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
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Metaphysical naturalism vs Theism
Reply #1 - July 27, 2014, 05:38 PM

1. The geographical distribution of religion is unlikely given the assumption that theism is true.
2. The geographical distribution of religion is likely given the assumption that Metaphysical naturalism is true.
C: Therefore, the geographical distribution of religion serves as evidence of Metaphysical naturalism over theism.

My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
- Qtian
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Metaphysical naturalism vs Theism
Reply #2 - July 27, 2014, 05:40 PM

1. Pointless cases of suffering are less likely given the assumption that theism is true.
2. Pointless cases of suffering are more likely given the assumption that Metaphysical naturalism is true.
C. Therefore, any pointless case of suffering is more likely on Metaphysical naturalism than on theism.

My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
- Lilyesque
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Metaphysical naturalism vs Theism
Reply #3 - July 27, 2014, 05:50 PM

1. Language shouldn't matter to the understanding of theological concepts and their acceptance if Theism is true.

2. Language in theological texts being not understood or accepted is more likely (pointing to a human origin of these texts); ergo metaphysical Naturalism is true.

C. Therefore any divergent opinions on theological decisions serve as evidence of Metaphysical naturalism over Theism
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Metaphysical naturalism vs Theism
Reply #4 - July 27, 2014, 05:59 PM

1. The hostility to life in the vast majority of the Universe is unlikely given the assumption that theism is true.
2. The hostility to life in the vast majority of the Universe is likely given the assumption that Metaphysical naturalism is true.
C. The hostility to life in the vast majority of the Universe supports Metaphysical Naturalism over theism.

My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
- xtremestr
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Metaphysical naturalism vs theism
Reply #5 - July 27, 2014, 07:05 PM

(Hope I'm doing this right)

1. The lack of any sign of outside interference on the atomic level is unlikely given the assumption that theism is true
2. The lack of any sign of outside interference on the atomic level is likely given the assumption that Metaphysical Naturalism is true
C. The lack of any sign of outside interference on the atomic level supports Metaphysical Naturalism over theism

1. All seemingly miraculous occurrences having logical explanations is unlikely given the assumption that theism is true
2. All seemingly miraculous occurrences having logical explanations is likely given the assumption that Metaphysical naturalism is true
C. All seemingly miraculous occurrences having logical explanations supports Metaphysical Naturalism over theism

1. The prayers of religious people being ignored/rejected is unlikely given the assumption that theism is true
2. The prayers of religious people being ignored/rejected is likely given the assumption that Metaphysical naturalism is true
C. The prayers of religious people being ignored/rejected supports Metaphysical Naturalism over theism

أشهد أن لا إله
- Qtian
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Metaphysical naturalism vs theism
Reply #6 - July 27, 2014, 08:08 PM

You did fine

I love evidential arguments against theism, partly because I've studied statistics so using probability makes me feel special lmao.

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Metaphysical naturalism vs theism
Reply #7 - July 29, 2014, 12:55 PM

A different kind of evidential argument (divine hiddenness)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd6WtZlAzAA

(1) Necessarily, if God exists, anyone who is (i) not resisting God and (ii) capable of meaningful conscious relationship with God is also (iii) in a position to participate in such relationship (able to do so just by trying).

(2) Necessarily, one is at a time in a position to participate in meaningful conscious relationship with God only if at that time one believes that God exists.

(3) Necessarily, if God exists, anyone who is (i) not resisting God and (ii) capable of meaningful conscious relationship with God also (iii) believes that God exists.

(4) There are (and often have been) people who are (i) not resisting God and (ii) capable of meaningful conscious relationship with God without also (iii) believing that God exists.

(5) God does not exist.

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Metaphysical naturalism vs theism
Reply #8 - July 29, 2014, 01:05 PM

1. The fact that there is theistic contrariety is unlikely given the assumption that Islam is the true.

2. The fact that there is theistic contrariety is likely given the assumption that Metaphysical naturalism is true.

C. Ergo, the competing claims of theistic religions are mutually exclusive. This serves as evidence of Metaphysical naturalism over Islam.

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- Qtian
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Metaphysical naturalism vs theism
Reply #9 - July 29, 2014, 01:13 PM

1. God is conceived of as a disembodied mind.
2. All known mental activity has a physical basis.
C. Therefore, it is probable that God does not exist.

My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
- xtremestr
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Metaphysical naturalism vs theism
Reply #10 - July 29, 2014, 01:26 PM

1.People everywhere speaking the same one language would support theism.
C.Since people speak different languages allover the world, the argument supports Metaphysical naturalism.

1.Words having an absolute meaning would support theism.
C. Since the languages in which all theism belief books were wrote suffer from a lack of absolute meaning to the words, this argument supports Metaphysical naturalism.

أشهد أن لا إله
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