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 Topic: Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..

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  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #60 - August 08, 2014, 04:56 PM

    I seriously cannot pick a side from a moral POV; what I do think I fairly well know is that I doubt that Gaza will not eventually get taken over by the Israeli govt.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #61 - August 08, 2014, 06:33 PM

    Many people forget that Hamas, when they took over, they segregated the schools, there were rumors of some troubles with the christian community in Gaza, and it's hard for me to accept them, especially when Islam is getting very dangerous nowadays, I have some people in my hometown calling them kuffar, and don't follow the true Islam, the Daesh islam.

    Hello khalil., I wonder whether you could clarify a bit on these points..

     "why Islam is getting dangerous nowadays., and what is true Islam in your view and who followed it?

    Quote
    But I know my history, and it wasn't always this way, and Islam finds a fertile land in crisis and tends to fade in the good times, for me now Hamas is the resistance, and their popularity stems from the hard times in Palestine, when there will be freedom, I believe things will get better on the fundamentalist level.

     You mean freedom from Israeli Occupation of Palestine?

    Quote
    It's really very confusing times, but Israel carry a lot of the blame, there were 2 powerful people, who weren't corrupt, in the secular Palestinian resistance, Abu Ali Mustafa from the PFLP and Marwan Barghouti from Fatah, Israel killed the 1st in his office in Ramallah, after signing an agreement with him, the second is rotting in Israeli jail with trumped up charge.

    Abu Ali Mustafa from the PFLP:



    Quote
    Abu Ali Mustafa (About this sound pronunciation  born in  1938  and  was the Secretary General of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) from July 2000 until he was assassinated by Israeli forces in 2001.

     In 1955 he joined the Arab Nationalist Movement (ANM), and two years later was arrested by the Jordanian authorities for his political activities. On his release in 1961, he took charge of the ANM's military operations in the northern West Bank[citation needed]. Following the Israel Defense Forces' capture of the West Bank in the Six-Day War, he left the West Bank and spent 32 years mainly in Damascus and Jordan. In September 1999 he returned to the West Bank under a deal struck between Yasser Arafat and Israel's Prime Minister, Ehud Barak. In July 2000 he was elected as the new general secretary of the PFLP after Habash retired. The PFLP is designated a terrorist organisation by Israel and many western states. Israel held Mustafa personally responsible for 10 different car-bomb attacks undertaken by the PFLP during his time as general secretary (in Jerusalem, Or-Yehuda, Yehud, and Haifa) and other shootings.[1]

    Mustafa was killed by two rockets fired from two Israeli Apache helicopters through his two office windows, as he sat at his desk in his office in Ramallah, in a targeted killing on 27 August 2001. Over 50,000 mourners attended his funeral. He was married with three daughters and two sons. The PFLP subsequently renamed their armed wing in the Occupied Palestinian Territories the Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades. He was succeeded as Secretary General by Ahmad Saadat.

    Israeli tourist minister Rehavam Ze'evi was allegedly assassinated by the PFLP in revenge for his killing. Ze'evi was a strong supporter of Israel carrying out targeted killing of Palestinian militants.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byfa-N1cMvo

    You can hear an audio of Abu Ali Mustafa in the above link..  well khalils., Readers very little about Palestinian communist leaders of that time..  So please write something on them and their news clips and interviews..

    with best
    yeezevee


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #62 - August 08, 2014, 08:01 PM

    There was a manifesto critical of Hamas a couple of years ago from the group Gaza Youth Break Out: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/02/free-gaza-youth-manifesto-palestinian though they've sounded less critical on Twitter and Facebook recently.
    Quote
    "Fuck Hamas. Fuck Israel. Fuck Fatah. Fuck UN. Fuck UNWRA. Fuck USA! We, the youth in Gaza, are so fed up with Israel, Hamas, the occupation, the violations of human rights and the indifference of the international community!

    "We want to scream and break this wall of silence, injustice and indifference like the Israeli F16s breaking the wall of sound; scream with all the power in our souls in order to release this immense frustration that consumes us because of this fucking situation we live in...

    "We are sick of being caught in this political struggle; sick of coal-dark nights with airplanes circling above our homes; sick of innocent farmers getting shot in the buffer zone because they are taking care of their lands; sick of bearded guys walking around with their guns abusing their power, beating up or incarcerating young people demonstrating for what they believe in; sick of the wall of shame that separates us from the rest of our country and keeps us imprisoned in a stamp-sized piece of land; sick of being portrayed as terrorists, home-made fanatics with explosives in our pockets and evil in our eyes; sick of the indifference we meet from the international community, the so-called experts in expressing concerns and drafting resolutions but cowards in enforcing anything they agree on; we are sick and tired of living a shitty life, being kept in jail by Israel, beaten up by Hamas and completely ignored by the rest of the world.

    "There is a revolution growing inside of us, an immense dissatisfaction and frustration that will destroy us unless we find a way of canalising this energy into something that can challenge the status quo and give us some kind of hope.

    "We barely survived the Operation Cast Lead, where Israel very effectively bombed the shit out of us, destroying thousands of homes and even more lives and dreams. During the war we got the unmistakable feeling that Israel wanted to erase us from the face of the Earth. During the last years, Hamas has been doing all they can to control our thoughts, behaviour and aspirations. Here in Gaza we are scared of being incarcerated, interrogated, hit, tortured, bombed, killed. We cannot move as we want, say what we want, do what we want.

    "ENOUGH! Enough pain, enough tears, enough suffering, enough control, limitations, unjust justifications, terror, torture, excuses, bombings, sleepless nights, dead civilians, black memories, bleak future, heart-aching present, disturbed politics, fanatic politicians, religious bullshit, enough incarceration! WE SAY STOP! This is not the future we want! We want to be free. We want to be able to live a normal life. We want peace. Is that too much to ask?"


    There's an interview from 2012 here: http://www.redpepper.org.uk/the-right-to-speak-up-in-gaza/
    Quote
    <snip>

    Hamas people think that they're superior, that they came from God, that they're senators of God on earth.  If anyone stands against them, they won't mind killing him.  Your cost is only a bullet to them.  If they feel that their movement is at risk, if they feel that they're in danger, they won't mind killing people.  We saw that in 2007, when the clashes happened between Fatah and Hamas, they killed 700 people.

    But Fatah is not better than Hamas.  Fatah is corrupt and they were killing inside Gaza before Hamas.  And that's what forced me to vote for Hamas when the election happened in Gaza.  Because I wanted to get rid of the dirty forces, the corruption of Fatah.  And now I've lost faith in everyone, in Fatah and Hamas.

    The problem in Gaza and the West Bank is the regimes.  They're international hands that are meddling in our cause.  The leaders of the movements in Gaza and the West Bank are not following their own faith they're following demands they get from the outside.  For example, Hamas in Gaza is following the demands they get from Syria, Iran, and lately from the Brotherhood in Egypt.  And Abbas is getting his orders from America, from the US, from whoever gives him money.  So... our situation is really desperate.

    <snip>

  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #63 - August 08, 2014, 09:14 PM

    I have more on my hard drive, but it doesn't seem like I can upload on to the site.

    rotter is an Israeli forum, it contains all sorts of people, but it's mostly right wing.
    This is a very famous video, I believe many of you watched it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdeqXQPW7TM

    This is a documentary about life in the west bank
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3emLCYB9j8c


    This is the shit that really has no moral or ethical grounds or even pretense of such. The settlements are completely unethical; Israel can not come up with a sound argument for them. It's not about 'defending Israel's citizens' in the West Bank, as the excuse generally goes about Gaza. There is no reason for Israel to authorize, expand, and defend the settlements, period. This Judaic fundamentalism is no better than Islamic, Christian, Hindu or any other fairy tale fundamentalism. It's disgusting and really puts a damper on the "PR war" as there is not even a far-fetched defense for it.

    The thing is Yeez, when debating with people, they ask how can you support dark ideology like Hamas, the reason most of us is silent, is what happened in the west bank, once the resistance was gone, the Israelis cut through the west bank and started doing whatever they want, Ghaza is the only armed resistance that's left, and it'll be gone soon, have no doubts about it.


    When was the last time that 'armed resistance' aka terrorism upon civilians won anyone anything?

    The question those who will criticize Israel without criticizing Hamas should consider is: Is what Hamas is doing - randomly throwing rockets and terrorizing the average Israeli civilian - going to be effective in securing the lives and dignity of Palestinian people at large?

    If one is just looking for vengeance, then one can't expect a solution. Only vengeance in return. Effective solutions require diplomacy, compromise, and putting funds into infrastructure, education and social services, something that Hamas, as elected officials in Gaza have not been known to do.

    I was just pointing out that RT is not unbiased, not at all. It's about as unbiased as press tv. Of course, that doesn't discredit everything they say. But their pushing "the media hates Palestinians" angle is like how Fox News pushes "the media sympathises with terrorists" angle. 
    I've seen the ABC segment before. It was BIG news. If the pro-Israel bias is so pervasive and this kind of thing is SOP, why would there be outrage over this one incident? 
    IMO it was an honest mistake. They apologised for it. It's pretty obvious to everyone that that level of destruction is not seen in Israel. There have been countless articles about how Israel is losing the PR war. 
    Most of the world sympathises with the Palestinians. Europe, Latin America, Africa. It's really only America where Israel can do no wrong. Perhaps it's the media there rather than the international media? Of course, the evangelicals also make up a quarter of the population. 
    Anyway, we can agree to disagree. 


    Yeah it's mostly a US thing. Most of the rest of the world's "mainstream media" is generally quite critical of Israel's excesses, or tries to be balanced and show multiple perspectives. It's the US's mainstream media (especially its right-wing media) that is blatantly one-sided about it.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #64 - August 08, 2014, 09:52 PM

    Hello khalil., I wonder whether you could clarify a bit on these points..

     "why Islam is getting dangerous nowadays., and what is true Islam in your view and who followed it?
     

    Islamic fundamentalism is on the rise, IMO Islam today replaced marxism in the sixties/seventies of the last century, the idea of jizya of chalipha, that was ridiculous back then, is now accepted, the ideology of following an ancient book to advance in life rather than research and developing ideas is being widely accepted.
    I don't know where you live Yeez, but here in the middle east, even with Israel's aggression, the people are divided between islamism and fear of islamism, both parties are mislead, not just the religious one, the talk is about ISIL, Muslim minority are calling to join them, for this is the right path, and seculars and christians are buying into the fear mongering, none of he parties is being helpful.
    In Israel, 1.2 million Arabs are divided into 3 religious groups, Muslims (80+%) christians (10-%) and Druze(10-%), Druze serve in the army since 1948, christians don't, not only do they not, the majority of the nationalistic arabs who opposed normalization with Israel were christians (look up, Tawfiq Tubi, Emil Habibi, Azmi Bishara, etc...), today minority of the christian voices are calling to join the army to defend themselves.
    I'm not religious, I don't see a difference between being bigot to a religion or a bigot to imaginary borders and some flag.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #65 - August 08, 2014, 09:54 PM

    Is it being accepted out of belief or fear though?
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #66 - August 08, 2014, 10:30 PM


    When was the last time that 'armed resistance' aka terrorism upon civilians won anyone anything?


    The state of Israel?
    The Balkans?
    Gaza? (There were settlements is Gaza that were abandoned because of Hamas)

    Terrorism is what big army calls the small army, sometimes it's correct, but in most times, it's just propaganda.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #67 - August 08, 2014, 10:33 PM

    Is it being accepted out of belief or fear though?


    ISIL ideology? I think it's a combination of despair from the nationalistic movements that gained nothing, and falsely believing in past glories, that are misunderstood and misrepresented.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #68 - August 08, 2014, 10:34 PM

    Quote
    Yeah it's mostly a US thing. Most of the rest of the world's "mainstream media" is generally quite critical of Israel's excesses, or tries to be balanced and show multiple perspectives. It's the US's mainstream media (especially its right-wing media) that is blatantly one-sided about it.

    Australian media coverage is generally pretty good, depending on what source you go for. You can certainly find one-eyed lunacy if you want it, but its not the only choice.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #69 - August 08, 2014, 10:42 PM

    Islamic fundamentalism is on the rise, IMO Islam today replaced marxism in the sixties/seventies of the last century, the idea of jizya of chalipha, that was ridiculous back then, is now accepted, the ideology of following an ancient book to advance in life rather than research and developing ideas is being widely accepted.
    I don't know where you live Yeez, but here in the middle east, even with Israel's aggression, the people are divided between islamism and fear of islamism, both parties are mislead, not just the religious one, the talk is about ISIL, Muslim minority are calling to join them, for this is the right path, and seculars and christians are buying into the fear mongering, none of he parties is being helpful.
    In Israel, 1.2 million Arabs are divided into 3 religious groups, Muslims (80+%) christians (10-%) and Druze(10-%), Druze serve in the army since 1948, christians don't, not only do they not, the majority of the nationalistic arabs who opposed normalization with Israel were christians (look up, Tawfiq Tubi, Emil Habibi, Azmi Bishara, etc...), today minority of the christian voices are calling to join the army to defend themselves.
    I'm not religious, I don't see a difference between being bigot to a religion or a bigot to imaginary borders and some flag.

    that is wonderful post and plain one that every can understand it., But so many questions are running in mind khalil., I will refrain to ask you those as it involves history of since 1947 or so now this response
    ISIL ideology? I think it's a combination of despair from the nationalistic movements that gained nothing, and falsely believing in past glories, that are misunderstood and misrepresented.

    khalils  ...You mean to say Islam HAS NO ROLE IN IT., but it is just  nationalistic movements , that are misunderstood and misrepresented?  

    anyways I will come back to  your other answer to that is hidden above.. Your response appears as if  Islam and other religions are happy go lucky goody goody and have no role in these middle east conflicts and wars..  Or you don't want to say that..   just got to go.. but will read your posts..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #70 - August 08, 2014, 10:57 PM

    No Yeez, the past glories I'm taking about are the Islamic Chalphate state, I'm saying that having a rosy picture about the 13 century long islamic state is misunderstanding it.
    There were good and bad rulers there.
    There were good and bad times.
    There were times were the Islamic state was more liberal than many current european states.
    It was a political state with strong army, nothing else, attributing religion to it is being ignorant of the dynamics back then.
    Even since its beginning, Chaliphates had to break the quranic codes because it was impractical (Omar Bin Ilkhattab canceled the hand cutting for theifs during the draught for example).
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #71 - August 09, 2014, 03:38 AM

    This is what Netanyahu said during the disengagement from Gaza: 

    Quote
    "Only we in the Knesset are able to stop this evil. Everything that the Knesset has decided, it is also capable of changing. I am calling on all those who grasp the danger: Gather strength and do the right thing. I don't know if the entire move can be stopped, but it still might be stopped in its initial stages. [Don't] give [the Palestinians] guns, don't give them rockets, don't give them a sea port, and don't give them a huge base for terror."


    Israelis say all the time that he was right, that Gaza did indeed become a "huge base for terror" after the withdrawal. Some say it emboldened Hamas and made them think that Israel capitulated to violence. Netanyahu recently said Israel shouldn't withdraw from the West Bank due to how Gaza turned out. I know Netanyahu has his own agenda and doesn't want peace or two states but he's successfully convinced the Israeli public that a Palestinian state would be a security threat. 
    IMO, the militancy has never got Palestinians anything and has, in fact, made everything worse. It killed the Israeli left and the peace process, and emboldened the right. 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #72 - August 09, 2014, 08:44 AM

    Al-Alethia, I don't mean this as insult, but this the most ignorant statement that could be made about the conflict. After hundreds of posts and you still think that? you believe Netanyahu?
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #73 - August 09, 2014, 09:03 AM

    FFS, read for comprehension. It's not that she believes Netanyahu. It's the Netanyahyu and Co have managed to create a narrative that the Israeli electorate will largely believe. This is influenced by their (the public's) reaction to militancy.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #74 - August 09, 2014, 09:39 AM

    I know Netanyahu and Likud reject the two state solution and Netanyahu has been working to undo the Oslo accords. I think I've said many times, the guy is a standard right-wing thug. I actually don't believe an independent Palestine would pose a huge security threat to Israel; the continued occupation is actually more of a threat to them IMO. 

    My point is that the hawks have been able to convince the Israeli public (already prone to paranoia and a persecution complex)  that the Palestinians want to destroy Israel more than they want self-determination, that they'll keep fighting once Israel withdraws from the West Bank, "give them an inch, they'll want a mile", "from the river to the sea", blah, blah, blah. 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #75 - August 09, 2014, 09:59 AM

    FFS, read for comprehension. It's not that she believes Netanyahu. It's the Netanyahyu and Co have managed to create a narrative that the Israeli electorate will largely believe. This is influenced by their (the public's) reaction to militancy.


    I am talking about this:
    IMO, the militancy has never got Palestinians anything and has, in fact, made everything worse. It killed the Israeli left and the peace process, and emboldened the right.
    I still stand by my comment
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #76 - August 09, 2014, 10:01 AM

    I know Netanyahu and Likud reject the two state solution and Netanyahu has been working to undo the Oslo accords. I think I've said many times, the guy is a standard right-wing thug. I actually don't believe an independent Palestine would pose a huge security threat to Israel; the continued occupation is actually more of a threat to them IMO. 

    My point is that the hawks have been able to convince the Israeli public (already prone to paranoia and a persecution complex)  that the Palestinians want to destroy Israel more than they want self-determination, that they'll keep fighting once Israel withdraws from the West Bank, "give them an inch, they'll want a mile", "from the river to the sea", blah, blah, blah. 

    The west bank has been an example of what would happen if Palestenians give up arms, people are killed, harassed and looted on daily basis, with the area divided and blockaded w/o meaningful resistance, no one should trust these people.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #77 - August 09, 2014, 10:36 AM

     
    I am talking about this:
    IMO, the militancy has never got Palestinians anything and has, in fact, made everything worse. It killed the Israeli left and the peace process, and emboldened the right.
    I still stand by my comment

    well some times your comments confuse some people khalils.,   Off course I also confuse the readers for different reasons.  you see this statement  from you

    "IMO, the militancy has never got Palestinians anything and has, in fact, made everything worse. It killed the Israeli left and the peace process,"

    but often some of your  statements  appear to support ISLAMIC MILITANCY  ..
     
    The west bank has been an example of what would happen if Palestinians give up arms, people are killed, harassed and looted on daily basis, with the area divided and blockaded w/o meaningful resistance, no one should trust these people.

    Who are those people khalils? Israeli Government, settlers  or  Armed movement against settlers or Islamic resistant movements/intifadas against Israel??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #78 - August 09, 2014, 10:42 AM

    There are times when militancy works. Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, for example. There are others where it doesn't work. When Lebanon became too much of a headache, Israel packed its bags and left (they had no interest in settling or annexing southern Lebanon). When the Palestinian territories became too much of a headache, checkpoints, walls, etc were introduced and life for the natives got much worse. 

    The colonisation project in the West Bank began in the 70s; the West Bank was home to many suicide bombers and militant groups throughout the 90s and the 2nd intifada. Nothing suggests that the militancy has had any impact on preventing the building of colonies there. I can understand your perspective though. Part of me feels like Palestinians should start attacking and sabotaging the colonies and making life hell for the settlers and that this could cause them to flee. But part of me thinks this could just backfire horribly. I'm of the opinion that the Palestinians' best bet would be nonviolent resistance and trying to garner world sympathy. If there was a Ghandi or Mandela like figure rather than jihadists who scream about the glory of killing Jews or the hopelessly corrupt PA. It would take time but it could garner results. I feel like the Israelis could be swayed. I also don't see Israel re-settling Gaza if Hamas lays down their weapons. They left voluntarily and they're not going back. 

    What do you think? 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #79 - August 09, 2014, 10:49 AM

    No Yeez, the past glories I'm taking about are the Islamic Chalphate state, I'm saying that having a rosy picture about the 13 century long islamic state is misunderstanding it.
    There were good and bad rulers there.
    There were good and bad times.
    There were times were the Islamic state was more liberal than many current european states.

    It was a political state with strong army, nothing else, attributing religion to it is being ignorant of the dynamics back then.

    Even since its beginning, Chaliphates had to break the quranic codes because it was impractical (Omar Bin Ilkhattab canceled the hand cutting for theifs during the draught for example).

    I don't understand your point of "Caliphates had to break  the Quranic codes"

    What Codes Quran has?   and what codes of Quran   are you talking??     and which Islamic kings/Caliphates broke that Quran code khalils?

    I was under the impression that Quran is a book of its time and IT IS JUST A STUPID BOOK PUT TOGETHER BY STUPID PEOPLE

    correct me if I am wrong khalil..

     So you believe Omar Bin Ilkhattab....... Caliph Omar was great  guy and Great ruler because  he canceled the hand cutting for thieves during the drought?  Do you also think/believe Prophet Muhammad was a great guy and  the so-called revelation of Quran were indeed divine?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #80 - August 09, 2014, 10:50 AM

    well some times your comments confuse some people khalils.,   Off course I also confuse the readers for different reasons.  you see this statement  from you

    "IMO, the militancy has never got Palestinians anything and has, in fact, made everything worse. It killed the Israeli left and the peace process,"

    but often some of your  statements  appear to support ISLAMIC MILITANCY  ..
     Who are those people khalils? Israeli Government, settlers  or  Armed movement against settlers or Islamic resistant movements/intifadas against Israel??



    Among the Palestinian national resistance it's had to differentiate between the different organizations.
    When there's a Palestinian state the militants will be Palestinain army, who's dragging their feet in effort to delay the rise of such army?
    The people are the right wing Israeli government.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #81 - August 09, 2014, 10:54 AM

    I don't understand your point of "Caliphates had to breaking  the Quranic codes"

    What Codes Quran has?   and what codes of Quran   are you talking??     and which Islamic kings/Caliphates broke that Quran code khalils?

    I was under the impression that Quran is a book of its time and IT IS JUST A STUPID BOOK PUT TOGETHER BY STUPID PEOPLE

    correct me if I am wrong khalil..

     So you believe Omar Bin Ilkhattab....... Caliph Omar was great  guy and Great ruler because  he canceled the hand cutting for thieves during the drought?  Do you also think/believe Prophet Muhammad was a great guy and  the so-called revelation of Quran were indeed divine?


    I don't believe that, I actually see Omar as a bigot military leader, but this is counter productive Yeez, to come to people and shake their whole foundation will not be accepted, I am for solving current issues rather than fighting deep seeded beliefs. Any Ex-Muslim should know the barrier that stands between the believer and breaking their faith.
    And it's not just with Muslims, all religious people are like that, I come from a religious family, and I gave up the attempt of convincing them that religion is lie.

    I gave an example of breaking the code, Omar didn't cut the thieves hands during draught, because he know, it wasn't the right thing to do.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #82 - August 09, 2014, 11:05 AM

    Among the Palestinian national resistance it's had to differentiate between the different organizations.
    When there's a Palestinian state the militants will be Palestinain army, who's dragging their feet in effort to delay the rise of such army?
    The people are the right wing Israeli government.

    No..noo...   nooooo.,     Don't confuse a national Army with Islamic militants and militant groups ..  There is a difference ., huge difference

    Anyways first of all we need a state/country  Palestinian state and then you can rise army may be crush militants or fight another country such as Israel., But tell me about this
    Quote
     who's dragging their feet in effort to delay the rise of such army?

    Start from 1947/48  and tell me who dragged their feet in effort to delay the rise of such army and rise of Palestinian state? who are they? who are these people that  dragged their feet?

    Arabs? Israelis? Jordan? Egypt?  Saudi Arabia ? or west such as UK and USA of that time? Or Palestinians leaders?  you got to start from 1948...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #83 - August 09, 2014, 11:18 AM

    I don't believe that, I actually see Omar as a bigot military leader, but this is counter productive Yeez, to come to people and shake their whole foundation will not be accepted, I am for solving current issues rather than fighting deep seeded beliefs. Any Ex-Muslim should know the barrier that stands between the believer and breaking their faith.

     khalils  forget about Ex-Muslims., They are brainless, spineless, thoughtless IRRATIONAL STUPIDS...... STUPIDS....    wasting their time on internet ..  RASCALS

    but on that point of  "criticizing Islam/Caliphs/Islamic history as counter productive for solving the problems in Muslim world" or Palestine-Isreali problem  

    Well keeping quite didn't help and not educating public .. Muslims as welle as non-Muslims  about their religions and religious stupidity didn't help for the past 1300 years.,  So other alternative is going  back to rightly guided Caliphs.. or wait for coming of the Christ.  I hope this allah/god provides a caliph to Islamic world..  

     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #84 - August 09, 2014, 11:42 AM

    well Peace gone out of that window..
    Quote
    Deadly Israel-Gaza conflict resumes after rockets fired from Strip

    Israel and militants from Gaza resumed cross-border attacks on Friday, after a three-day truce expired and talks brokered by Egypt on a new border deal for the blockaded coastal territory hit a deadlock

    and that  and more you can read at telegraph.co.uk

    and that George Galloway  Solutions to  ISIS Crisis & Gaza Massacre

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l9tQ922OCU

    And rest of the world reacts

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjpjbDqi2vc

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #85 - August 09, 2014, 01:43 PM

    What The Media’s Getting Wrong About Israel And Palestine — And Why It Matters writes  Mnar Muhawesh
    Quote
    rom 2000 to 2007, about 1,000 Israelis have been killed in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and nearly 6,000 Palestinians have been killed.  Since the recent assault on Gaza under Operation Protective Edge, nearly 600 Palestinians have been killed, including nearly 121 children plus over 1,400 wounded and over 120 houses destroyed — those numbers continue to rise. Israeli death toll has reached 27, nine of which are soldiers.

    According to the Palestinian Ministry of Information’s latest report on civilian casualties, one Palestinian child has been killed by Israel every three days for the last 13 years.

    As an American who has lived in Jerusalem, I struggle between the want to share what I feel is the vast media cover-up of the Israeli-led violence and the want to stand up and say, “enough.” Both messages echo truths, from those trapped within the violence to those silenced for reporting the violent assault.

        All rocket fire should be condemned, whether it be by Hamas or Israel, that much I know is true.

    The deaths of Israeli teens Naftali Fraenkel, Gilad Shaer and Eyal Yifrah represent a tragedy- one that no family should have to face. Violence touches communities deeply and does not spare race, creed or intellect. What I grapple with, is the reaction to their deaths — Israeli lawmakers calling for a genocide and vengeance against Arabs, the torture and murder of 17-year-old Muhammad Abu Khdair by Israeli settlers, Israeli settlers’ continued kidnapping and abuse of Palestinian children, and now the Israeli military operation and violent assault against Gaza that is collectively punishing 1.7 million people who are already living in poverty. Gaza has been described by human rights groups as an open air prison with no where to escape. It has to end.

    This massacre will only continue to bring pain and suffering to a conflict that has taught both Israeli and Palestinian youth that a road map for peace has been shattered.

    As I watch the media play headline games and act as a lapdog to a U.S. ally, it takes me back to the year 2001, when I returned to the U.S. after living in Jerusalem for about four years.

    As we were about to head to the airport to go back the U.S., where I was born and raised, my father received a call from a relative, panicked and scared about evacuating the all-girl elementary school where this relative was working as a principal at the time because Israeli settlers had planted a bomb in the school. At the same time, this relative explained, their sons’ school, an all-boy elementary school, was also being evacuated because Israeli settlers had planted a bomb there as well.

    That day, Israeli settlers had been planting bombs throughout Palestinian schools and no child was safe. Feeling extreme shock and fear that innocent children were being targeted by these extremist acts of hate and violence, it was beyond traumatizing for me and my family, as I was only 13 years old at the time.

    I understood then, in my teens that I had a right to be angry at those that perpetrated the violence. But, I also felt great responsibility.

    This was not the first time I would witness a relative panicked and scared, and it would not be the last, either. During my nearly four years living in Jerusalem as an American from Minneapolis, Minnesota, I witnessed war crimes no child should never have to witness. I lived under the occupation. We had our water and electricity cut off regularly, and we lived under martial law — curfews were placed on most cities and soldiers bearing guns, even pointing them at civilians, ruled the streets.

    By the time I was 13, I had already witnessed Israeli war planes dropping bombs on major cities in the West Bank like Ramallah, destroying homes of Palestinian families and killing children. I had crossed through checkpoints in cabs and the driver would yell “Duck!” because Israeli soldiers were shooting at schoolchildren who were throwing rocks at them — those same children were barred from crossing the checkpoints placed by the Israeli Defense Forces to visit their family members after school and responded with resistence by throwing rocks. At my American school in Jerusalem, half my classmates missed school most days and were essentially denied an education because they had been turned back at checkpoints because they lived in the West Bank and were Palestinian, Muslim and/or Christian.

    I would hear stories from neighbors and friends of other junior highschools’ being raided by IDF soldiers and rounding up all the teenage boys and indefinitely detaining them with no charges, because they could be potential ‘terrorists’ in the future, which is illegal under international law. When I last visited Jerusalem when I was 18 years old, I was stunned by the devastation of the apartheid wall that was built tearing families apart and destroying agriculture and land many were depending on. The wall sepearated families from each other, and prevented many children was attending school. I remember going to the city of Hebron in the West Bank to visit the Abrahamic mosque where Muslims, Jews and Christians visit regularly, and having settlers throw garbage at us while yelling racist slurs directed at us for no reason.

    During this visit, we ironically had to be escorted by Israeli soldiers to get near the mosque, because they warned us that the Israeli settlers become violent if non-Jews visit and have, at many times, kidnapped young children and women, and even killed them.  Because I’m an American citizen, the soldiers said they’d make sure to protect my group and I.

    By the time I was 13, I, a young girl from Minneapolis, Minnesota, had witnessed apartheid and military occupation, but I knew, I had to do something.

    When we arrived back to the U.S. to neat green lawns and my classmates wondering when the next party was, or what was on television or how much booze they could down compared to their fellow classates, I felt lost and alone.

    By this time, I was suffering from severe post-traumatic stress disorder. All I could think about and all that consumed me was the war that I had just left behind, and the families being torn apart from the war. Guilt overtook my body, since we were now living a comfortable American lifestyle in a quiet and manicured suburb, but I knew my friends, classmates, American and Arab teachers and family that I had just left back in Jerusalem were living under occupation and living in fear.

    There was no one to talk to about the war I had just left behind, and I found no comfort in our American media. Then, as now, the media framed the story as if Palestinians and Israelis were fighting each other on an equal level playing field. It was framed as Muslim versus Jew, and the Palestinians were referred to as terrorists or militants in most media coverage. However, the majority of our neighbors in Jerusalem were Palestinian Christians suffering from the same military occupation as their fellow Muslim Palestinians. This was no Muslim versus Jew fight.

    I blamed the media for my fellow Americans’ lack of understanding and lack of awareness of what the Israeli-Palestinian conflict really is. I blamed the media for the lack of empathy Americans had for the civilian life under occupation in 2001. I still blame the media for inaccurately reporting on major human rights issues we know are taking place around the world today.

    The media is referred to in our Constitution because in a democracy, journalism’s role is to protect the interests of the people to essentially hold those in power accountable. When our media portrays murder as defense, and defense as murder, we know the media is not being truthful to its citizens and is not acting as a government watchdog, but rather as a government lapdog. As the Obama administration pledges to continue aid to Israel at a rate of $3 billion a year, despite calls by Israeli lawmakers for a genocide of Arabs in this conflict, many journalists of conscience can’t help but ask: Is the U.S. government complicit in these calls for genocide?

    In the last month alone, our media has ignored the truth about the violence in Gaza and what led to this current round of violence. Why are we staying silent? When Israel’s assault began on Gaza nearly two weeks ago, American media headlines manipulated the narrative of this conflict to make Israeli lives seem more valuable than that of Palestinians. Here are few headlines told half truths:

        The New York Times led with “Death Toll Rises in Gaza, as Hamas Hits New Targets in Israel,” placing all blame for Palestinian casualties on Hamas’ actions instead of saying that the Israeli bombing attacks is a form of collective punishment that actually killed those civilians.

        The Wall Street Journal led with “Israel Targets Gaza Rocket Launchers,” not mentioning the Israeli rockets that have targeted civilian homes in Gaza.

        The Los Angeles Times ran “Palestinian rockets reach farther into Israel,” reporting that the homemade rockets have not killed a single person, but failing to mention the American-funded Israeli missiles that have left over nearly 600 Palestinians — mostly women and children — dead in Gaza.

    Although the majority of alternative and independent media organizations have started to refer to Israel as an apartheid state in the last 5 years, the mainstream media is trailing far behind and does not question the U.S. government’s complicity in apartheid.

    My story of what I witnessed and what I lived through is only one of thousands of life under occupation. As I watch the events unfold in the Holy Land today and how the media continues to be complicit in Israeli war crimes in Gaza, many journalists, academics, human rights groups and peace advocacy groups wonder if this is to numb America to the real horrors our military aid is contributing to in the land that is so dear to the entire world.

    I found courage and catharsis in pursuing journalism to speak up not just for Palestinians, but for all people around the world who are suffering and being oppressed, people who are being massacred in the name of power, money and greed whether it be in Sudan, the Congo, Burma, Syria, Iraq, Central African Republic, China, Mexico and many more under-reported regions across the world.

    Journalism has become my outlet for the helplessness that I grew up feeling when I suffered from PTSD for several years, the anxiety that I live with every single day because of what I’ve endured, for the trauma that I carry because of my life in a war zone and knowing that so many people I left behind are still suffering whether it be in Palestine and Israel or anywhere in the world.

    Providing a voice to the voiceless and covering national and international stories through the lens of social justice and human rights is the whole reason I started MintPress News, and I hope more of us can come together in the cause of human rights and know that every life is precious. We are humans struggling in a life for freedom, in a world divided by nations.

    Join me in helping independent journalists tell the whole story of the violence in Gaza. We are proud to partner with Jewish Voice For Peace in helping to end the violence in Gaza and to hold Israel accountable for it’s massacre as well as for it’s occupation. Feel free to share their “End The Violence” campaign with your network or audience. Click here to sign the petition to bring peace to the Holy Land.

    well that is what she writes., I have not read all of it  but I have to agree with many points of her.., THE WALLS MUST GO..  And she is


    mistress of Mint Press News and apparently  she is also a wife and mother of a rascal four year old boy,  http://www.mintpressnews.com/ is an interesting media from US of A..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #86 - August 09, 2014, 02:06 PM

    Yeez, if you think the Israelis settlers are any different you're very wrong, they just don't show you on TV.

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    (Clicky for piccy!)


    I cant tell you the number of times I've seen those kind of pictures of palestinian children floating around the internet,so that every time there is a war, pro israeli fellas roll them out after or in anticipation for the death of Palestinian children.
    Meanwhile














    If these children were Palestinian, these pictures too would be used in the same way.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #87 - August 09, 2014, 03:01 PM

    Very true. There's definitely a push to paint the Palestinians as a bunch of rabid Jew-hating terrorists. I think this narrative plays a big part in the lack of sympathy Americans have for Palestinians. It's very unfortunate, in many ways they've been dehumanised. 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #88 - August 09, 2014, 06:02 PM

    khalils  forget about Ex-Muslims., They are brainless, spineless, thoughtless IRRATIONAL STUPIDS...... STUPIDS....    wasting their time on internet ..  RASCALS

    but on that point of  "criticizing Islam/Caliphs/Islamic history as counter productive for solving the problems in Muslim world" or Palestine-Isreali problem  

    Well keeping quite didn't help and not educating public .. Muslims as welle as non-Muslims  about their religions and religious stupidity didn't help for the past 1300 years.,  So other alternative is going  back to rightly guided Caliphs.. or wait for coming of the Christ.  I hope this allah/god provides a caliph to Islamic world..  

     


    I know many good people, hard working, intelligent, who don't want to kill anyone, but on the other hand, will not accept calling their prophet a liar and their religion a scam, there are more important things in life than insisting on this.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #89 - August 09, 2014, 11:09 PM

    Major General Giora Eiland,  only subordinate to Chief of Staff in IDF, has written an op-ed echoing deputy knesset speaker Moshe Feiglin when he said: Our soldiers are the only innocents in Gaza. He's also former head of the  National Security Council The title of the op-ed is In Gaza, there is no such thing as 'innocent civilians'. Why write such a title when you want the world to think that your different from Hamas?
    Quote
    The moment it begins, the right thing to do is to shut down the crossings, prevent the entry of any goods, including food, and definitely prevent the supply of gas and electricity.

    Quote
    ...we must avoid the artificial, wrong and dangerous distinction between the Hamas people, who are "the bad guys," and Gaza's residents, which are allegedly "the good guys."


    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4554583,00.html

    Despite the fact that the Israeli Gov tailors language for the west, prominent military leaders,politicians and religious leaders still say such things if not worse. If this is said infront cameras and the world press, what's said behind closed doors?
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