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Theme Changer

 Topic: Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..

 (Read 38984 times)
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  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #90 - August 09, 2014, 11:39 PM

    ......................

    Despite the fact that the Israeli Gov tailors language for the west, .......................If this is said infront cameras and the world press, what's said behind closed doors?

    well Israelis may have different colors for west and  with-in  Israeli government

    But form Islamic countries around Israel..  THEY SHOW SAME COLOR all the time to all a public..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G00uvPjqNXQ

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #91 - August 09, 2014, 11:49 PM

    So you don't deny that Israeli Gov war ethics is no different from Hamas, with the only difference being what rhetoric to deploy when and where?
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #92 - August 10, 2014, 12:07 AM

    So you don't deny that Israeli Gov war ethics is no different from Hamas, with the only difference being what rhetoric to deploy when and where?

    off course I can not deny that., In war your goal or any ones goal should be winning and achieving the goals with whatever tactics you use.

     I don't see that "Go for war for winning  game" with Hamas and I didn't see that with PLO all the way until that Arafat-Barak-Clinton summit., There was a glimmer of hope in that summit., but then Palestinian political dumbos blew it up with that "Jerusalem for us" only slogan..  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #93 - August 10, 2014, 12:35 PM

    Quote
    khalils  forget about Ex-Muslims., They are brainless, spineless, thoughtless IRRATIONAL STUPIDS...... STUPIDS....    wasting their time on internet ..  RASCALS

    but on that point of  "criticizing Islam/Caliphs/Islamic history as counter productive for solving the problems in Muslim world" or Palestine-Isreali problem  

    Well keeping quite didn't help and not educating public .. Muslims as welle as non-Muslims  about their religions and religious stupidity didn't help for the past 1300 years.,  So other alternative is going  back to rightly guided Caliphs.. or wait for coming of the Christ.  I hope this allah/god provides a caliph to Islamic world..  

      And khalils respond with  
    I know many good people, hard working, intelligent, who don't want to kill anyone, but on the other hand, will not accept calling their prophet a liar and their religion a scam, there are more important things in life than insisting on this.


    I guess  I may have upset khalils  by insisting on coupling Palestine/Middle East problems with Islam and religions rituals in general..

    I too know many many good people that happened to be Muslims and I am related to some of them., But I am not asking those good people to accept what I am saying blindly., I am asking them reevaluate their religions and rituals for this time  for 21st century.

    Now my question to you is.,  If I or some one call "their prophet a liar and their religion a scam" what should be their response? how should they deal with people like me  khalils?   Agian that is for good smart  people faiths not for brainless bums..

    I do agree that you  may  have point there  and  I may be wrong but I think letting people know that these   religions rituals prophets are simply the product of their time and they are neither universal nor timeless unquestionable rules for humanity or betterment of humanity khalils. Fight for this nonsense is not going get them anywhere except to misery for them and for their children.  Frankly speaking I would say  religions and religious supremacy  was the problem and still is the major problem and major road block for human development in general.

    Correct if I am wrong dear khalils.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2LehsA1dk

    That is a good one to watch specially to those who support Israel

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #94 - August 10, 2014, 06:57 PM

    Interesting article here about the Hannibal Directive: http://972mag.com/leader-of-rescue-squad-captive-soldier-wouldve-been-better-off-if-we-shot-him/95276/
    Quote
    There has been some controversy during the war about the meaning of the Hannibal Directive, a once-classified order meant to prevent the capture of Israeli soldiers by enemy forces – notoriously, by allowing Israeli troops to fire in their direction, even at risk of injury or death to the captive. Some have taken the interpretation of the order to the extreme, arguing that it effectively means captive soldiers were to be killed by their own army rather than allowed to be taken as bargaining chips for a future prisoner exchange...

  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #95 - August 11, 2014, 01:05 PM

    Well it is worth  watching and worth listening to 16 years old, Farah Baker from Gaza,,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf-QDPTlbIg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krp19cHpmgc

    She tweets as Farah_Gazan and she is  Living near Gaza City's Shifa Hospital, where her father is a surgeon, provides Baker with a live feed of blaring ambulance sirens in addition to blasts from Israeli air strikes and shelling attacks.

    that fool is not asking right questions but that is all right..  I am sure young girls will see the facts as soon as they the real facts.. and I wish all these Hamas heroes and Politicians that are dealing with Israelis could be replaced by such 16 year old girls..  

    It is very important and VITAL FOR ISRAELIS TO LET THESE KIDS GO AROUND THE GLOBE So stop this travel blockage stupid shit..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #96 - August 11, 2014, 02:36 PM

    I too know many many good people that happened to be Muslims and I am related to some of them., But I am not asking those good people to accept what I am saying blindly., I am asking them reevaluate their religions and rituals for this time  for 21st century.

    Now my question to you is.,  If I or some one call "their prophet a liar and their religion a scam" what should be their response? how should they deal with people like me  khalils?   Agian that is for good smart  people faiths not for brainless bums..
    AI do agree that you  may  have point there  and  I may be wrong but I think letting people know that these   religions rituals prophets are simply the product of their time and they are neither universal nor timeless unquestionable rules for humanity or betterment of humanity khalils. Fight for this nonsense is not going get them anywhere except to misery for them and for their children.  Frankly speaking I would say  religions and religious supremacy  was the problem and still is the major problem and major road block for human development in general.


    We can challenge people's faith, but what if this was a roadblock? would you risk a friendship for it? would you ruin good relationship with a neighbor or a co-worker? everybody who knows me, knows I'm an atheist, and that I'm willing to debate it, but I won't shove it down people throats because deep seeded beliefs have tendency to fight.
    Most people aren't ISIL, they believe in a creator and reward for being good and punishment for being bad, they fast, and donate and some of them pray, but it stops there, I don't want to make enemies with these people, and you shouldn't.

    Religious supremacy was a problem, it is still a problem but much smaller than you think, there are much larger problems facing humanity, it starts with runaway government sizes and diminishing personal liberties, crippling monetary system with built in crashes, and very deep ties between corporate and state pretty much in all big markets, but that's a different story for a different day.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #97 - August 11, 2014, 05:37 PM

    Quote from: khalils
    We can challenge people's faith, but what if this was a roadblock? would you risk a friendship for it?------------------------------------Religious supremacy was a problem, it is still a problem but much smaller than you think, there are much larger problems facing humanity, it starts with runaway government sizes and diminishing personal liberties, crippling monetary system with built in crashes, and very deep ties between corporate and state pretty much in all big markets, but that's a different story for a different day.

    Religious supremacy is not a problem in itself. There is religious supremacy in Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism and Sikhism also - nobody in the world cares. Why? Because we do not feel threatened. As a Hindu I can live in a Christian majority, Jewish majority etc. country without fear, I can practice my religion. - I do not feel like a minority. But I cannot do that in a Muslim majority country. Islamic supremacy is different - becuase of Islam, Muslims want to eliminate me. Muslims do not tolerate non-Muslims where they are in majority. This is proven by history. Also it is happening today in every Muslim majority country. Christians are being driven out of the Middle East. Christians are being killed. Yazidis are being eliminated. Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan - from 20% in 1947 to about 1% today. In Bangladesh, Hindus from 45% in 1947 to 10% today. While the percentage of Muslims in the Indian state of West Bengal has increased from 10% to 30%. Jews are not even allowed to visit any Muslim country.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #98 - August 11, 2014, 05:44 PM

    We can challenge people's faith, but what if this was a roadblock? would you risk a friendship for it? would you ruin good relationship with a neighbor or a co-worker? everybody who knows me, knows I'm an atheist, and that I'm willing to debate it, but I won't shove it down people throats because deep seeded beliefs have tendency to fight.
    Most people aren't ISIL, they believe in a creator and reward for being good and punishment for being bad, they fast, and donate and some of them pray, but it stops there, I don't want to make enemies with these people, and you shouldn't.

    Religious supremacy was a problem, it is still a problem but much smaller than you think, there are much larger problems facing humanity, it starts with runaway government sizes and diminishing personal liberties, crippling monetary system with built in crashes, and very deep ties between corporate and state pretty much in all big markets, but that's a different story for a different day.

    You do have some reasonable advice for people like me khalils., and please continue to write and read., I am sorry if I was bit hard  on you and your posts..

    with best regards
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #99 - August 11, 2014, 06:17 PM

    Religious supremacy is not a problem in itself. There is religious supremacy in Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism and Sikhism also - nobody in the world cares. Why? Because we do not feel threatened. As a Hindu I can live in a Christian majority, Jewish majority etc. country without fear, I can practice my religion. - I do not feel like a minority. But I cannot do that in a Muslim majority country. Islamic supremacy is different - becuase of Islam, Muslims want to eliminate me. Muslims do not tolerate non-Muslims where they are in majority. This is proven by history. Also it is happening today in every Muslim majority country. Christians are being driven out of the Middle East. Christians are being killed. Yazidis are being eliminated. Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan - from 20% in 1947 to about 1% today. In Bangladesh, Hindus from 45% in 1947 to 10% today. While the percentage of Muslims in the Indian state of West Bengal has increased from 10% to 30%. Jews are not even allowed to visit any Muslim country.


    Some Hindus also treated and still do treat Sikhs and Muslim like shit in Hindustan India.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #100 - August 11, 2014, 08:13 PM

    Quote from: Jedi
    Some Hindus also treated and still do treat Sikhs and Muslim like shit in Hindustan India.

     
    What is your point? There are Christians who treat Hindus as shit also, so do Sikhs. The operative word is "some". Are you justifying the elimination of non-Muslims in Muslim countries because "some' Hindus treat Sikhs and Muslims as shit? I live in Canada, perhaps the most tolerant country, still I get treated as shit by some Christian Canadians.

    There is a BIG diffrence between as being treated as shit and being killed because  of religion - don't you think? In the Indian constitution every citizen of India is equal and has the right to seek any political office. But in the Pakistan constitution: Non Muslim is disqualified for any high political office, the testimony of a non-Muslim man is worth 1/2 the value as that of a Muslim man. etc. I am gladly waiting for being jumped on throat.

    The discrimination in non-Muslim countries is illegal, but in Muslim countries, the hatred and discrimination against non-Muslims is constitutionally sanctioned in the law.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #101 - August 11, 2014, 08:19 PM

    I can say that in Iraq and Levant, christians have lived peacefully since the days of Muhammad, there were ups and downs, but to say there is systematic treating like shit is bogus. the the the last 70 years sucked though, but it was more politics than religion.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #102 - August 11, 2014, 08:20 PM

    Quote
    As a Hindu I can live in a Christian majority, Jewish majority etc. country without fear, I can practice my religion. - I do not feel like a minority. But I cannot do that in a Muslim majority country. Islamic supremacy is different - becuase of Islam, Muslims want to eliminate me.


    Now stop crying.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #103 - August 11, 2014, 08:22 PM

    Jedi, don't make personal attacks.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #104 - August 12, 2014, 12:37 AM

    I can say that in Iraq and Levant, christians have lived peacefully since the days of Muhammad, there were ups and downs, but to say there is systematic treating like shit is bogus. the the the last 70 years sucked though, but it was more politics than religion.

    I know Christians still do okay in Jordan and the Palestinian territories, and Syria used to be good until the war. What political factors in the past 70 years caused attitudes towards Christians to change? Is it Islamism? 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #105 - August 12, 2014, 10:02 AM

    I can say that in Iraq and Levant, christians have lived peacefully since the days of Muhammad, there were ups and downs, but to say there is systematic treating like shit is bogus. the the the last 70 years sucked though, but it was more politics than religion.

     So  khalils  says  "the last 70 years sucked though".,

    You mean to say before 2nd world war everything was rosy and happy in this world for Christians? Is this sucking only in middle East or is it all over the globe?

    "CHRISTIANS HAVE LIVED PEACEFULLY SINCE THE DAYS OF MUHAMMAD.."  I like that statement.. Why only Christians?  Didn't the Jews, Arabian Pagans, Zoroastrians,  live peacefully during Prophet of Islam time? or did they suffer persecutions?

    Anyway that is a different historical topic .. So the news today says on that Gaza-Israel at http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28738955  says
    Quote
    Gaza conflict: Fresh talks begin in Egypt

    Indirect talks between Israeli and Palestinian negotiators aimed at finding a long-term solution to the conflict in Gaza have begun in Cairo, according to Egyptian state media. The fresh discussions come amid a new three-day ceasefire agreed between Israel and the Islamist group Hamas.

    A BBC reporter in Gaza says the truce is holding so far, with signs of normal life returning to the streets. About 2,000 people have died since the fighting in Gaza began on 8 July.

    Those killed include more than 1,900 Palestinians, mostly civilians, according to the UN. Sixty-four Israeli soldiers have been killed in the fighting and three civilians in Israel have also die..

     read the rest at the link.., that is a good news..  Hope Israelis  military force and Hamas Defense forces are happy with their good work ..  or bored with thier good work..  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #106 - August 12, 2014, 10:17 AM

    I am a christian Yeez, I know my history well, I can't speak for others.
    Things weren't rosy, they were bloody, but they were bloody for everyone virtually. Not because of Islam.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #107 - August 12, 2014, 10:23 AM

    I know Christians still do okay in Jordan and the Palestinian territories, and Syria used to be good until the war. What political factors in the past 70 years caused attitudes towards Christians to change? Is it Islamism? 

    Islamism was a factor only in Egypt.
    The takeover of Haifa and Jerusalem (both had big and rich christian communities), and rise of the state of Israel in 48.
    67 war and its implications on Ramallah and Jerusalem periphery, also contains heavy christian representation.
    The civil war in Lebanon, and the loss of Maronite political power in Lebanon, it was political war and not religious, although religion was used in it.
    The Gulf war in In Iraq in 1990, the blockade, the second war and the aftermath.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #108 - August 12, 2014, 12:37 PM

    I am a christian Yeez, I know my history well, I can't speak for others.

    I am a christian Yeez, I know my history well, I can't speak for others.
    Things weren't rosy, they were bloody, but they were bloody for everyone virtually. Not because of Islam.

    Off course  you know Christian history better than me khalils .,   BECAUSE YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN and I know history of Zebras because  I am a Zebra(religious peaking)   by birth ..

    Out of 1.5-1,8  million people living in the Gaza Strip, at best I think  ~3000 of them are Christian and that speaks a lot about how Islam took care of Christianity and Christians khalils..
    Quote
    Things weren't rosy, they were bloody, but they were bloody for everyone virtually. Not because of Islam.

    I see.,   for Christians and every one "Things were bloody in the Middle East all the time for the past 1400 years .. So things are blood now."  I wonder the  role of religions for things being bloody for 1400 years.  If you say Islam has no role in Politics,  you have the right to say but I may question that logic khalils.,

    Would you mind if I question it? Anyways news close to me says from  that alarabiya.net says Pakistan’s zombie-like response to the Gaza killings
    Quote
    While Israeli jets pounded Gaza with sophisticated bombs over the last two weeks, indiscriminately killing unarmed men, women and children before an unresponsive world conscience, the lukewarm reaction to this bloodshed from the Pakistanis seems out of place.

    Although Pakistani people, particularly women and children, watch in horror the pictures of mutilated, blood soaked bodies of Palestinian children, women and men, the trauma and anger is not translating into any worthwhile protests which has been the hallmark of the country in such cases in the past.

    The Pakistani “silence” is all the more disturbing for Pakistani people, especially after they have been watching video clips on social media over the last couple of months showing the besieged people of Gaza calling the Pakistan army to come for their rescue against the Israeli aggression.

    Pakistan’s reluctant and slow response to the latest Palestinian crisis is perhaps because Islamabad has been deeply engaged in its own web of crises; including escalating terrorism emanating from country’s unwise jumping on the bandwagon of the U.S.-led war on terror...

    well   this says it all

    " The Pakistani “silence” is all the more disturbing for Pakistani people, especially after they have been watching video clips on social media over the last couple of months showing the besieged people of Gaza calling the Pakistan army to come for their rescue against the Israeli aggression."

    people of Gaza calling Army of Pakistan to Fight Israels .. that is what  Mansoor Jafar Great journalist of Pakistan writes..

    I wonder., If Pakistan has the government that is capable of  sending its Army to fight Israelis.,   and if there is a war between Pakistan and Israel   in Gaza .. then , then  that could  be the final nail on Pakistan or on Israel

    Fools write nonsense..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #109 - August 13, 2014, 12:53 PM

    well news from that  Gaza-Israel Peace Moves says

    Time running out on Gaza cease-fire between Israel and Hamas -CNN
    Quote
    Gaza (CNN) -- Less than a day remains of a temporary cease-fire in Gaza.

    Indirect talks between Israeli and Palestinian officials aimed at agreeing on a more lasting end to hostilities are expected to continue Wednesday in Cairo. The three-day truce is due to expire just after midnight local time (5 p.m. ET).

    Egypt is pushing the Israelis and Palestinians to extend the cease-fire past its current deadline, a senior Egyptian government official told CNN on Wednesday.

    "This is a very sensitive time in the negotiations, and it's hard to predict the outcome at this point," said the official, who asked not to be identified because he's not authorized to speak the media about the talks...

    I am sot sure what is so time sensitive about this and for whom?  This problem is going on for the past 60 years.. 60 years..  few days is not a big deal AMRIKA..

    That is from AMRIKA and here is the news from Israelhaaretz.com that says

    Quote
    Now is the time for Israel to be generous with Gaza

    The formula for Gaza's future is out there in the open – real demilitarization of the Strip in exchange for true economic independence.  The collapse of the cease-fire between Israel and Hamas on Thursday morning was met with surprise and disappointment by most Israelis. They felt that Israel is no longer capable of holding the initiative. Hamas remains on its feet, still capable of firing rockets at Tel Aviv. The impression is that there's no guarantee of this round of violence ending, and that another one could well be right around the next corner. A deeper view of the realities on the ground, however, shows that Israel's strategic situation has significantly improved over the last two months.

    From a military perspective, Hamas has lost its main asset. Even if some of its tunnels remain intact, the new deployment around the Gaza Strip will not allow it to carry out a "multi-dimensional strategic attack." It can still launch mid-range rockets but Iron Dome has deprived them of any significant gain. The more accurate short-range mortar shells can cause more damage, but the Israel Defense Forces is finding ways to minimize their impact.

    Well Israelis must know that Gaza Palestinians are not looking for Economic assistance with walls and check posts  around Gaza., They want to control their economy by themselves., that means an  independent state with people moving freely to come and go from Gaza strip and contacts from outside world

    And the third  news from www.presstv.ir says  with this picture on it
    Israel army distributes shocking photos of Gaza as souvenir


    Quote
    Israeli army sources say pictures of a devastated Gaza neighborhood have been distributed among Israeli soldiers as a memento. The photos, showing Gaza’s Shijaiyah district before and after Israel’s destructive attacks, were circulated among soldiers who were engaged in the aggression in the Palestinian coastal enclave.

    On July 20, dozens of people lost their lives and many others injured in Israel’s brutal massacre of Palestinians in Gaza's eastern Shejaiya district. Witnesses said bodies of Palestinian women and children were lying on the ground after Israel attacked the Shejaiyah neighborhood in Gaza, forcing thousands of panicked civilians to flee.

    The Israeli army reportedly prevented ambulances and emergency services from reaching the area. ..etc..etc..etc..

    I don't care about what people write as I am very picky  on what to believe and what not to believe from News.. but I like people comments..

    Quote
    ....the chosen race in hell .... sooner or later they will taste their own medicine .... everlastingly in the ultimate painful abode .... .......

    Zionism is a perverted and dehumanized ideology of racism, hate and sheer evil. The Zionist atrocities against Palestinians and Muslims strutting on US taxpayers weapons constitute the greatest savagery known to humans.Peace and justice in the region and the world will only come with the elimination of Zionism.

    I ALWAYS SAY ADOLF HITLER WAS BETTER THAN SATANYAHU

    US, Europe and the Arab Zionists who support Israel Zionist one day will regret of their support because this mad dog will attack every human any where regardless of religion, culture,or any race...


    Brainwash is a very powerful tool to turn people to animals with no conscious. It has been used very successfully in the U.S. and of course Israel to fight the wars by killing as many people as they can without being morally bothered.

    ..............Something is wrong either with their DNA or their religion,there has to be something as element of disfuntioning,that need to be studied,not too long ago here we had brilliant article by Kevin Barrett,I forgot the title but he explained the mentality of these Zionists that how they enjoy killing of others and it was related to their book of "Talmut",it was then that I went to search for myself to learn more,and found something els instead which was worth to read....,in South Korea it has become mandatory for Korean children to learn about Talmut and the service is held at American military base at the back of Christian Chapel every Saturday since there is no Synagogues in Korea....,Korean are all Budhist and Christians and now they are changing,something that Christian missionaries were not truley honet and were working for today's crime that Israel is commiting.Search it for yourself....


    well that is enough reading and plenty more such remarks are there all over the news papers..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #110 - August 13, 2014, 03:28 PM

    yezevee, come to think of it, I don't see much inventive for Hamas to give up its weapons. Israel treats the West Bank like shit and they're not fighting so how can the Israelis be trusted? I think Israel should lift the blockade and demonstrate good faith first. 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #111 - August 13, 2014, 03:41 PM

    yezevee, ...........................I think Israel should lift the blockade and demonstrate good faith first. 

    I am all for that., not only that I am for  REMOVING ALL WALLS ALL OVER THAT LAND from the borders of Egypt to the Borders of Jordan ..

    What the world....  SPECIALLY ISRAELIS  or rich Jewish folks in west needs  is spending some serious amount of money and time on  educating folks on religions and on origins of RELIGIOUS RUBBISH..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #112 - August 13, 2014, 05:56 PM

    Meanwhile within Israel itself...

    http://972mag.com/why-palestinian-citizens-of-israel-are-no-longer-safe/95382/
    Quote
    About a month ago I wrote here that the fabric of relations between Palestinian and Jewish citizens of Israel was worsening, and that this was not just an escalation but a frightening new era of Jewish-Arab relations in Israel. In retrospect, we were just at the start of the deterioration and had no idea what was in store for us.

    Since the onset of the war in Gaza, the scale of the assaults on Palestinian citizens of Israel has increased dramatically, as have their intensity. Today we find ourselves in a new and appalling chapter of relations between Arab and Jewish citizens of Israel. The lengthy article in last Friday’s Haaretz weekend magazine (Hebrew) was a comprehensive and systematic account of the campaign of physical and verbal violence directed at Palestinian citizens, the campaign by the right wing to have Arab workers fired and the profound fear that prevails among them.

    Why is this happening?

    There are many explanations. I would like to offer another, less widely-known explanation for this outbreak of racism. In recent years we have witnessed two contradictory trends in relations between Jews and Arabs in Israel: groups that push toward equality and those that work in the opposite direction; groups that work for the creation of a shared society and better relations between Jews and Arabs, and those that work for segregation and worse relations. I have argued in the past that both trends are present in the public, media, bureaucracy and the political arena.

    Despite systematic discrimination by the government and profound racism (which of course is nothing new), Arab society in Israel, in cooperation with various factors in Jewish society, including in several government ministries, has been able to effect a significant improvement in its socioeconomic status, to somewhat reduce the inequality, to challenge state institutions and to enjoy substantial and authentic political representation in the Knesset. As Arab society has become stronger in recent years, we have witnessed the first signs of its integration into the centers of power, economy and society in Israel.

    We are not talking about some submissive and fawning integration. A generation that did not grow up under military rule has had the courage to bolster its Palestinian national identity, and its bond with the Palestinians in the occupied Palestinian territories and the Arab world. Many prominent representatives of Palestinian communities in Israel, especially in the Knesset and civil society organizations, sharply assert the rights of Israel’s Palestinian citizens, both as individuals and as a collective. They demand equal individual and national rights, and an abolition of the special privileges enjoyed exclusively by Jews.

    What’s most relevant in understanding the events of the past month is that Arabs’ increasing strength is not hidden and has not developed only in concealed regions far removed from Jewish life. On the contrary; it has been open and visible and has created further points of daily contact between Jews and Arabs, in diverse arenas.

    Note the new Israeli reality of recent years. When I was a child in the 1970s, the only Arabs encountered by Jews who didn’t visit Arab localities were manual laborers. The situation is totally different today. A Jewish citizen who goes into a drugstore will almost always encounter an Arab pharmacist; should he/she need to go to the emergency room they may very well be treated by an Arab doctor. Ten years ago, I managed an algorithm development team in a startup company. At the time, an Arab employee of a hi-tech firm was an exceptional phenomenon. Today we are in the midst of a revolution in which many Arab citizens hold jobs in the hi-tech sector, the jewel in the crown of the Israeli economy. As Odeh Bisharat wrote in Haaretz, “Whoever, back in the 1950s, destined the Arabs to serve as hewers of wood and drawers of water, is now getting them as leaders in hi-tech.”

    Jewish university students have Arab lecturers, and sometimes even an Arab department chair or college president. There has already been an Arab minister and an Arab director-general of a government ministry. Perhaps symbolic of the new reality is that not only the common man is exposed to the rising power of Israel’s Palestinian citizens. The chief judge of the panel that convicted the former president of the state, Moshe Katsav, and sentenced him to a long prison term was a Palestinian citizen.

    As long as Israel’s Palestinian citizens were powerless and excluded, they did not threaten Jewish hegemony. Today, though, Jews are no longer always at the top of every ladder in Israel. This situation undermines the world order of the radical nationalist right, which is terrified by the loss of absolute Jewish hegemony, and is stirred to take countervailing action. In contrast to those on the left and among Palestinian citizens themselves who belittle the economic and social integration of Arabs, it may well be that it is those on the right who have accurately identified the latent potential and consequently see it as a real threat. They are gearing up for a battle to halt what they view as a dangerous process and endeavoring to reduce the rights enjoyed by Arabs.

    This a reaction to the fact that Arabs are a much greater presence in our lives than those who would preserve the Jewish hegemony can stomach. The lawsuits against the state, the stronger representation in higher education and the job market, the presence of Arabic language in public spaces (quite simply because there are now more Arabs in shopping malls, universities, workplaces, and so on) – all of these factors amplify the sense of threat, and spawn a desire to make Arab citizens disappear, or at least to push them as far down the socio-economic ladder as possible.

    In recent years this reaction has been fueled by right-wing politicians. Avigdor Lieberman, supported by his cohorts in other parties in the current and past government coalitions, has sponsored an unprecedented wave of legislation targeting Palestinian citizens. With the support of the prime minister, the electoral threshold was raised – a brutal step with the potential to banish Palestinian citizens from the political system. And then, of course, there is the ultimate solution: Lieberman’s proposal to strip hundreds of thousands of Israel-Arabs of their citizenship by transferring their home districts to a future Palestinian state. Right-wing leaders have sent clear and unmistakable message to Palestinian citizens of Israel: If you don’t shut up you’ll come to a bitter end.

    But despite the great damage caused by these politicians’ assault on Arab citizens, Arab society has not surrendered to the evil wind blowing from the Knesset. They have been joined by Jewish advocates for equality who continue to employ effective strategies to promote equality and full integration into Israeli society and the economy.

    So what has happened in these last two months?

    The new phenomenon of the last two months is that the populist, nationalist, radical right has been stirred to action. What its representatives in the Knesset proved unable to achieve, it is now trying to do on its own. Under the cover of its political leaders’ silence or with their encouragement, it has unleashed an assault on Palestinian citizens in order to force them to bow their heads, quite literally. It is simply unable to countenance Palestinian citizens’ increased power, especially not their greater visibility in public spaces.

    If Arabs were employed only in cleaning and agriculture, and submissively shuttled home to their towns and villages every evening, Knesset members on the right – now joined by the rightists in street – would not make an effort to expel them from the labor force, political arena and public spaces. Note that most of the incidents of the past months occurred in places that are shared by Jews and Arabs – the mixed towns and the integrated commercial centers and employment zones in Jewish towns. Hair-raising nightly marches that feature cries of “Death to the Arabs!” took place in Upper Nazareth. Arabs were attacked not in their own localities, but on shared public buses and in the streets of mixed cities.

    Of course, the strongest reaction was to the strongest trend: Arabs integration into the labor market. For the first time, we are witnessing an unprecedented and systematic attempt by members of the radical right to encourage the dismissal of Arab workers. The more senior an Arab’s position, the stronger the demand that he be axed. I doubt that the right-wing hooligan gangs would be motivated to invest significant energy in demanding the firing of an Arab cleaner. But when it comes to encouraging the dismissal of Arab physicians and pharmacists, professionals in the service of local authorities, shift managers, salespersons and service providers, right-wing gangs will work with all their might.

    They simply find it impossible to endure a Palestinian citizen in a senior position, one who inverts the only power relation that the racists want to see between Jews and Arabs: Jews at the top and Palestinians at the bottom. For a racist, it is unacceptable that a Jew might have to depend on an Arab (as a physician, pharmacist or service rep). Here another factor enters and explains why this outburst happened precisely now. That same racist was willing to ‘endure’ the situation as long as the Israeli-Arab kept his mouth shut and did not speak out against the government or against that most sacred institution of all: the army.

    And now we have to speak the truth, even if it is unpleasant for so many Jewish readers. In all of the violent conflicts of Israel against the Palestinians or the Arab world, a majority of the country’s Arab citizens, quite naturally, identified with the members of their own Palestinian people and not with IDF soldiers who were fighting against it. Although some Jews knew or intuited this, on some level or another Palestinian citizens’ identification with those the IDF was firing at was not an overt presence in shared spaces. Arab workers were careful not to express their views when in the company of Jewish colleagues.

    What changed the rules?

    But today, in July 2014, the appalling number of Palestinians killed in Gaza (more than 1,800, including 400 children) and the existence of social networks have totally altered the picture. For the first time since the deep penetration of social networks, the IDF is killing many Palestinians and the pictures of dead children show up on Palestinian citizens’ smartphone screens almost immediately. It is inhuman to expect them to support those who are conducting the killing of their people.

    Social media has also made it possible that almost every citizen’s opinion of the war, be they Jewish or Palestinian, is exposed for all to see. What Palestinian citizens could once keep within the confines of family and friends has now become known to all. The situation was not symmetrical in the past. Arabs always knew what their Jewish colleagues or customers were thinking, because they heard them saying that it was necessary “to crush the intifada,” “to route out Hezbollah,” “to flatten Gaza so as to teach Hamas a lesson,” etc. They listened, and for the most part kept silent. But during the last month of violence in Gaza, when the atrocities crowded their Facebook pages, along with denunciations of the IDF and its soldiers, they “liked” posts and perhaps even shared them and added a few words of their own. What used to be hidden is now exposed to the world. What the right wing views as Palestinian citizens’ disloyalty to the state, the IDF and its soldiers – and, worst of all, hope for the enemy’s victory – is now public knowledge.

    And it is precisely here that the anti-Arab radical right lost it once and for all. The Kahanist hooligans in the street may have remained mute and helpless in the face of growing Arab economic power; but it cannot abide both their increased strength and their hostility to the IDF and the national narrative; all the more so when soldiers are dying. So it goes on the war path. It calls on the government to go all the way and kill Palestinians in Gaza in order to crush Hamas, while it goes to war itself against the Palestinians at home – the Palestinian citizens on our streets.

    The same social network that made it possible to learn that one’s Palestinian colleague or pharmacist was not praying for an IDF victory (to put it mildly) enabled the radical right to organize quickly and effectively against Palestinian citizens and to demand their banishment from shared public space. In the best case, the demand targets those who were found not to be falling in line with the national narrative; very soon, however, as happens with every racist movement, the pressure grows into a call to throw them all out (such as the demand that the Rami Levy supermarket chain fire all its Arab workers).

    It is important for me to note that I am focusing on Jewish society’s responsibility for the deterioration in relations; however Arab society, too, bears some responsibility, although much less. Rocks were thrown at Jewish vehicles in the last month in a few places. It is important to mention that some of the statements against the state by Arab political leaders, although legitimate, critically impair the ability of those of us in a Jewish society who wish to promote equality and to recruit support for our efforts.

    In a democratic state, one is permitted to argue that the basic ideology of the majority group – Zionism, in the Israeli case – is colonialist and racist. Personally, I object to these arguments, but they are certainly permissible. But it is not reasonable to expect that such charges will spur the Jewish majority to join the struggle for the rights of the Arab minority. The dismissals of Arab workers during the war were unacceptable; but Arab employees’ displays of joy at the death of soldiers, when they work with Jewish colleagues, is atrocious behavior, and certainly does not promote shared life between Jews and Arabs.

    The summer of 2014 has demonstrated that the internal national conflict between Jewish and Palestinian citizens of Israel, which to date has been a non-violent conflict overshadowed by the occupation and the violent Israeli-Palestinian national conflict, has not been able to maintain the status quo, as bad as it was. Israel launched a military operation and the IDF bombed and shelled Palestinian citizens’ own people – in many cases their relatives – and ignored their familial, emotional, personal and national bonds with the Palestinians of Gaza. The fabric of relations within Israel proved unable to absorb this, and almost collapsed.

    Thus three different factors came together this summer: the increased strength of Arab society and the greater presence of Palestinian citizens in shared spaces; the war in Gaza, which left the Arab and Jewish sectors totally polarized; and social media networks, which made all this visible.

    And precisely at a time when these three factors were operating, the dangerous link-up between the radical right in the government and the even more radical right on the streets emerged and provided momentum for the escalation. In the past month right-wing politicians, including government ministers, have made unprecedented statements against Palestinian citizens of Israel. They have exploited their identification with the Palestinians under bombardment in Gaza to incite against them and to depict them as supporters of terrorism. The High Arab Follow-Up Committee’s decision to call for a general strike in solidarity with the victims in Gaza was a legitimate and non-violent response. But in response the Israeli foreign minister proposed a boycott of Arab businesses that took part in the strike and to cause a severe blow to the Arab economy.

    And here Lieberman and the Kahanist hooligans on the streets complement one another. While some burst into a neighborhood pharmacy and demand that the Arab woman behind the counter be fired; Liberman operates on a much grander scale and seeks to expel Arabs from the centers of economic power, or at least to return them to their “natural” role as manual laborers. For years politicians have been trying to expel several Arab parliamentarians from the Knesset; this year, for the first time, they registered a partial success. Meanwhile, their supporters in the street are trying to have the voters who elected these MKs fired from their jobs. The process is not preplanned and coordinated, but it is a combined operation in which both elements – the Kahanists in the street and some politicians of the radical right – are inciting and working in tandem, in different arenas, in pursuit of the same goal. This collaboration makes the situation even worse by making it much harder to curb. The assault against Palestinian citizens is taking place in the Knesset, in the government, on social networks, in the media and, of course, also on the streets.

    Where do we go from here?

    About a month ago I wrote: “I have not given up hope. I still believe that there can be a better future for the relationship between Arab and Jewish citizens of Israel.” I added that history has proven that “ethnic conflicts far more intransigent and violent than this one have been resolved, while conflicts that seemed mild have declined into bloodshed. All options are on the table.”

    Today the situation is much more ominous. The optimistic scenario is that this period will be seen in retrospect as the extreme right wing’s rearguard action, its last hoorah before the failure of its campaign against the establishment of a shared and equal society in Israel. Much more horrendous scenarios are possible, of course: the expulsion of the Arab minority from the Israeli economy and society, or harsher discrimination. It is even possible that the Arab sector may revolt against absorbing the blows and resort to a fierce counter-reaction, which, heaven forbid, would trigger a violent battle between Jews and Arabs in Israel. I do not think this scenario is likely, but it can no longer be dismissed as wholly unthinkable.

    The harsh news for all of us who are working to create a shared and equal society is that our past successes – the strengthening of Arab society and the creation of shared spaces –are precisely what encouraged the counter-reaction. Even if, by means of a supreme effort, we are able to prevent deterioration in the coming years and manage to promote Arab participation in the centers of social and economic power in Israel, the radical right will mobilize all its forces to try to halt this process. We will have to continue to build a shared society, but now we will also have to prepare for the reaction. In addition to our investment in building, we will also have to invest in preparing our response to this counterattack.

    If we, Jewish and Arab citizens who seek a better and shared future in this land, choose life, we have no alternative: We must prepare ourselves for a difficult and protracted struggle. It is in our hands. No one else will do it for us.

  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #113 - August 14, 2014, 01:10 PM



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqPbM7WGSIQ

    Well that is what she says.....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #114 - August 14, 2014, 02:38 PM

    WTF  finmad How could people applaud that shit? A peace prize for Netanyahu wacko More like a war crimes tribunal. 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #115 - August 14, 2014, 05:47 PM

    I seriously cannot pick a side from a moral POV; what I do think I fairly well know is that I doubt that Gaza will not eventually get taken over by the Israeli govt.

    I don't think Israel will take over Gaza. Gaza was ruled by Egyptians before the 1967 War. The common sense dictates that Gaza should become part of Egypt - also it makes sense from geographical reasons, if you look at the map. The West Bank was part of Jordan till the 1967 War, so it should become part of Jordan. The Jews living in the settlements should become the citizens of Jordan with equal political rights - including the right to hold the highest political office - with complete religious freedom. After all Arabs make up 20% of the Israeli citizens. Grant you that they are discriminated against - but they are equal citizens with religious freedom, at least legally - which country in the world where minorities are not discriminated?

    The alternative solution could be that there are 2 states: (1) Israel with majority Jewish population and Arab minority. (2) Palestine with Arab majority and Jewish minority. In both states, all citizens are equal with full political and religious rights constitutionally guaranteed. Both states have secular constitutions where religion and the states are seperate. The Jewish settlers will remain where they are but they will be Palestinians and Arabs in Israel will be Israelis.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #116 - August 14, 2014, 06:04 PM

    Palestinians definitely do *NOT* want to be part of Egypt. They hate Egypt. Particularly the Sisi-regime. Same with Jordan. Palestinians there are heavily discriminated against. They want their *OWN* state. As agreed on in the Oslo accords 20 years ago.

    Also 80% of the people living in Gaza are descendants of refugees who got ethnically cleansed from what we now consider "Israel" (despite Israel never having defined its own borders) and have a UN-recognised right of return.

    Just giving Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan will not solve anything. And I am pretty sure both Egypt and Jordan want to avoid that.

    Also one of the reasons Israel disengaged from (the inside of) Gaza was because they have a "demographic problem" with the territory. Namely currently about 1.7 million Palestinians.

    Regarding the West Bank 63% of the settlers live in areas that is easy to include in Israel and earlier a land-swap deal was already proposed after negotiations 10 years ago, but the Israeli government sabotaged further progress.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #117 - August 14, 2014, 06:27 PM

    Who started the 1967 War? Arabs attacked Israel and they lost. Now imagine that Arabs won the war - what do you think Arabs would have done to the Jews? Just ponder. I know the answer because I have the experience of living in a Muslim majority country.

    In 1948, the Palestine was divided between Jews and Arabs. The land given to Israel was much smaller than they had in 1967. Arabs rejected the partition. The problem is the religion - mixing religion with politics. The fact is that Muslims do not tolerate non-Muslims where they are in majority. There were about 1 million Jews living in Arab countries in 1948 - today there are few thousand left in Yemen, Morocco and Tunisia - all other Arab and Muslim countries are Jew free.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #118 - August 14, 2014, 06:43 PM

    Who started the 1967 War? Arabs attacked Israel and they lost.

    That is a myth. Read or watch something with Israeli historian Miko Peled.
    In 1948, the Palestine was divided between Jews and Arabs. The land given to Israel was much smaller than they had in 1967. Arabs rejected the partition.

    The UN partition plan would give 55% of the territory to 1/4 of the population. By far recently arrived immigrants. In 1920 there was 700.000 people in the territory, about 75.000 of them Jews "almost all having immigrated within the last 40 years" according to British mandate resources.
    The problem is the religion - mixing religion with politics. The fact is that Muslims do not tolerate non-Muslims where they are in majority. There were about 1 million Jews living in Arab countries in 1948 - today there are few thousand left in Yemen, Morocco and Tunisia - all other Arab and Muslim countries are Jew free.

    Well they should obviously not have threatened nor expelled their Jewish populations. But it was linked to the actions of Israel in 1947-1948 and their terrorising, massacres and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.

    Also, Christians have been part of the leadership of the Palestinian resistance since its start. Not to mention Marxists.

    The conflict in Palestine was not fueled with religion until the 80's where Israel wanted to help Hamas gain ground because they saw them as an opposition to secular PLO which the wanted to weaken.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #119 - August 14, 2014, 07:09 PM

    Edit: wrong thread Tongue
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