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Theme Changer

 Topic: Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...

 (Read 33844 times)
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  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #180 - October 08, 2014, 03:24 PM

    Well could be interesting to hear Bardhi's take on that as he is Kosovan. Or perhaps Sturmgewehr's who is Macedonian Albanian.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #181 - October 08, 2014, 03:35 PM

    I know nothing of Sam Harris, but some on here consider him a baddie.  Why is this?

    A few relatively big name bloggers and writers decided he was a racist Islamophobic neocon fascist etc, and people just kinda bought it. There's no real basis for it.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #182 - October 08, 2014, 03:45 PM

    ^_^
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #183 - October 08, 2014, 09:18 PM

    bogart
    It would be great if liberals and leftist reacted to Islamic barbarism in the same way.That doesn't mean his arguments for using tools are within the realm of human rights&universal values,and it's also good example of why he's being criticized. Every society has something that is 'PC', whether it's Western,Chinese or Islamic, and sometimes even within different parts of the same society(liberal-conservative) there are things that will create backlash. Arguing for torture in the war on terror,religious profiling and warfare for spreading values...are things that will upset lot of PC folks,depending on which PC group you're talking about.


    I do not agree with most of his views. It is the overreaction many of the PC crowd to his views which is the issue. For many their reaction is so over the top that there is no discussion to be had. It amounts to exactly what Batman did, just yell, disrupt and silence other opinions. Let the man talk enough and he will bury himself with his own opinion. Which is exactly what Batman did. Seriously on the show there was to be a panel for discussion not yelling at each other. There is a time and a place for just screaming at people, the show was not it. There are valid criticisms which people have against him delivered in the proper way. Batman should of read those and present these in a calm manner. Maher didn't help anyone with his comedic snide remarks injected so he can be part of the "discussion". The panel was uncontrolled which just resulted in a mess.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #184 - October 08, 2014, 10:11 PM

    I do not agree with most of his views. It is the overreaction many of the PC crowd to his views which is the issue. For many their reaction is so over the top that there is no discussion to be had. It amounts to exactly what Batman did, just yell, disrupt and silence other opinions. Let the man talk enough and he will bury himself with his own opinion. Which is exactly what Batman did. Seriously on the show there was to be a panel for discussion not yelling at each other. There is a time and a place for just screaming at people, the show was not it. There are valid criticisms which people have against him delivered in the proper way. Batman should of read those and present these in a calm manner. Maher didn't help anyone with his comedic snide remarks injected so he can be part of the "discussion". The panel was uncontrolled which just resulted in a mess.

     Cheesy

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #185 - October 08, 2014, 10:12 PM


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #186 - October 08, 2014, 10:14 PM

    Cheesy


    Tis genius!
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #187 - October 08, 2014, 10:15 PM

    I know my POV is new to you and may seem like hallucinations for the first time.
    I know you admire the militant atheism of Harris, but he's there for this very same reason, to build his intellectual capital in his domain and then promote ideas to his audience, did you read Sam Haris' piece on why he doesn't criticize Israel, go read it and learn what shameless propaganda looks like, Just like Hitchins was used to promote the 2nd Iraq war, and Sagan to promote the 1st Iraq war.
    I know you admire Bill Maher's humor, and he is one funny SOB, but he's there to act as the opposite team of Fox news, the liberal voice for the democratic party, to maintain the bi-partisan paradigm and limit the scope of debate, did you know that this is Bill Maher's second stint in TV after being fired in the first one for criticizing bombing from the air as a coward act, the lap dog got smacked on the nose and learned his lesson.



    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #188 - October 08, 2014, 10:17 PM

    Just so we're clear, what is it you claim is missing?
    Hitchins support for 2nd Iraq war or the fact it was imperialistic aggression war based on lies?
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #189 - October 08, 2014, 10:30 PM

    He was practicing for his role.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMQUD7qt9EY
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #190 - October 08, 2014, 10:37 PM

    Just so we're clear, what is it you claim is missing?
    Hitchins support for 2nd Iraq war or the fact it was imperialistic aggression war based on lies?

    The part where so and so were "used" for so and so and your last sentence.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #191 - October 09, 2014, 06:11 AM

    This is from Hitchins Wikipedia page

    Quote
    Iraq War and the war on terror[edit]
    In the years after the fatwa issued against Salman Rushdie in response to his novel The Satanic Verses, Hitchens became increasingly critical of what he called "excuse making" on the left. At the same time, he was attracted to the foreign policy ideas of some on the Republican-right that promoted pro-liberalism intervention, especially the neoconservative group that included Paul Wolfowitz.[77] Around this time, he befriended the Iraqi dissident and businessman Ahmed Chalabi.[78] In 2004, Hitchens stated that neoconservative support for US intervention in Iraq convinced him that he was "on the same side as the neo-conservatives" when it came to contemporary foreign policy issues.[79] Hitchens had also been known to refer to his association with "temporary neocon allies".[80]

    Following the 11 September attacks, Hitchens and Noam Chomsky debated the nature of radical Islam and the proper response to it. In October 2001, Hitchens wrote criticisms of Chomsky in The Nation.[81][82] Chomsky responded[83] and Hitchens issued a rebuttal to Chomsky[84] to which Chomsky again responded.[6] Approximately a year after the 11 September attacks and his exchanges with Chomsky, Hitchens left The Nation, claiming that its editors, readers and contributors considered John Ashcroft a bigger threat than Osama bin Laden,[85] and that they were making excuses on behalf of Islamist terrorism; in the following months he wrote articles increasingly at odds with his colleagues.

    Christopher Hitchens argued the case for the Iraq War in a 2003 collection of essays entitled A Long Short War: The Postponed Liberation of Iraq, and he held numerous public debates on the topic with George Galloway[86] and Scott Ritter.[87]

    Criticism of George W. Bush[edit]
    Prior to 11 September 2001, and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, Hitchens was highly critical of President George W. Bush's "non-interventionist" foreign policy.[citation needed] He also criticised Bush's support of intelligent design[88] and capital punishment.[89]

    Although Hitchens defended Bush's post-11 September foreign policy, he criticised the actions of US troops in Abu Ghraib and Haditha, and the US government's use of waterboarding, which he unhesitatingly deemed as torture after he was invited by Vanity Fair to voluntarily undergo it.[90][91] In January 2006, Hitchens joined with four other individuals and four organisations, including the American Civil Liberties Union and Greenpeace, as plaintiffs in a lawsuit, ACLU v. NSA, challenging Bush's warrantless domestic spying program; the lawsuit was filed by the ACLU.[92][93][94]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens#Iraq_War_and_the_war_on_terror

    This is from Sagan's wiki page

    Quote
    Following Saddam Hussein's threats to light Kuwait's oil wells on fire in response to any physical challenge to Iraqi control of the oil assets, Sagan and his nuclear winter/"TTAPS" colleagues warned in January 1991 in the Baltimore Sun and Wilmington Morning Star newspapers,[36][37] that if the fires were left to burn over a period of several months, enough smoke from the 600 or so 1991 Kuwaiti oil fires "might get so high as to disrupt agriculture in much of South Asia ..." and that this possibility should "affect the war plans", these claims were also the subject of a televised debate between Sagan and physicist Fred Singer on 22 January, aired on the ABC News program Nightline.[38][39]
    In the televised debate, Sagan argued that the effects of the smoke would be similar to the effects of a nuclear winter, with Singer arguing to the contrary. After the debate, the fires burnt for many months before extinguishing efforts were complete, the results of the smoke did not produce continental sized cooling.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan


    And of course the debating Hitchins did for the war
    With Galloway
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeKhOCDo6Uo
    With Barenti
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nik0273l8K4

    Do you need any more evidence Quod Sum Eris?
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #192 - October 09, 2014, 06:22 AM

    Okay, maybe I need to clarify. When you say so and so were used for this and that, what exactly are you saying? That they were paid by the government? That they were promoted and other views drowned out? That they were knowingly or unknowingly engaging in propaganda? When you use the word "used" in the context you did it comes across to me in a way you might not have meant it.

    I see them as people with their opinions who articulate them. Case in point, Hitchens and Galloway. This is what I think and why I think it, with a good number of personal attacks from Galloway thrown in.

    Am I misreading you?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #193 - October 09, 2014, 06:42 AM

    An older vid of Ben defending muslims on the same show.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9scLXvSC8s

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #194 - October 09, 2014, 06:44 AM

    So I found a thread on ummah about this exact subject.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?418800-Ben-Affleck-slams-Bill-Maher-over-racist-comments-against-Islam

    Scroll down a little and...

    Quote
    well apparently , if ben affleck knew that we condemn sodomy with death , he wouldnt be defending us actually.

     Roll Eyes

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #195 - October 09, 2014, 06:46 AM

    Quote
    Mashaallah! Allah swt has guided Ben Affleck and I think he has accepted the truth of Islam. He is not going to declare it publicly becuz he lives in a kaffir country. Look he has grown beard and there is noor on his face. mashallah

     We should all watch his next movie Batman and support brother Ben Affleck - inshallah!

     Cheesy

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #196 - October 09, 2014, 06:53 AM

    Okay, maybe I need to clarify. When you say so and so were used for this and that, what exactly are you saying? That they were paid by the government? That they were promoted and other views drowned out? That they were knowingly or unknowingly engaging in propaganda? When you use the word "used" in the context you did it comes across to me in a way you might not have meant it.

    I see them as people with their opinions who articulate them. Case in point, Hitchens and Galloway. This is what I think and why I think it, with a good number of personal attacks from Galloway thrown in.

    Am I misreading you?


    I don't know whether they are paid or not (although I have my strong beliefs abut Harris), and I don't know whether knowingly or unknowingly, I don't think it matters.
    They had their ideas, it fit the establishment, so they were used to promote the establishment's wars of aggression.
    They were wrong, and they took the very suspiciously hawkish act for someone who condemns violent religions.
    P.S. I hate Galloway's Islam ass kissing, but Hitchins started the personal attack.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #197 - October 09, 2014, 06:56 AM

    So you have a strong belief that Sam Harris is being paid by someone (US gov?) to make Americans hostile to islam to further justify wars in the Middle East?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #198 - October 09, 2014, 06:59 AM

    Saying they're used to promote something is kind of a ridiculous thing to say if they were expressing their honest opinions and someone who agreed with them showed a few vids or books/articles. I do it myself from time to time. I've even done it with Sam Harris. I thought he made a very good point about criticising religion and I showed it to other people because I felt it got the point across perfectly.

    It was this by the way.

    Quote
    Imagine that the year is 1507, and life is difficult. Crops fail, good people suffer instantaneous and horrifying turns of bad luck, and even the children of royalty regularly die before they have taken their first steps. As it turns out, everyone understands the cause of these calamities: it is witchcraft. Not all witchcraft is at fault, of course—there are “white” witches who use their powers to heal—but there is no question that some witches have formed an alliance with the Devil. Happily, the Church has produced many learned and energetic men who are equal to this challenge, and each year hundreds of women are put to death for casting spells upon their innocent neighbors. Imagine being among the tiny percentage of people—the 5 percent, or 10 percent at most—who think that a belief in witchcraft is nothing more than a malignant fantasy. Imagine writing a book arguing that magic spells do no real work in the world, that the confessions of bad witches are delusional or coerced, that the claims of good witches are self-serving and unempirical. You argue further that a belief in magic offers false hope of benefits that are best sought elsewhere, like from scientific medicine, and lays the ground for false accusations of imaginary crimes, leading to the misery and death of innocent people. If your name is Sam Harris, you may produce two fatuous volumes entitled The End of Magic and Letter to a Wiccan Nation. Daniel Dennett would then grapple helplessly with the origins of sorcery in his aptly named, Breaking the Spell. Richard Dawkins—whose bias against witches, warlocks, and even alchemists has long been known—will follow these books with an arrogant screed entitled, The Witch Delusion. And finally Christopher Hitchens will deliver a poisonous eructation at book-length in The Devil is Not Great. What sort of criticism would these misguided authors likely encounter? In the following essay, I present excerpts from actual reviews of recent atheist bestsellers, replacing terms like “religion,” “God,” and “atheist” with terms like “witchcraft,” “the Devil,” and “skeptic.” Observe how much intellectual progress we have made in the last five hundred years.



    "[None of these authors] takes time to consider contemporary [witchcraft] in the light of some of its most sophisticated and heroic practitioners.... Moreover, none of them ever put their weak, confused, and unplumbed ideas about [the Devil] under scrutiny. Their natural habit of mind is anthropomorphic. They tend to think of [the Devil] as if He were a human being, bound to human limitations... [These] authors pride themselves on how science advances in understanding over time, and also on how moral thinking becomes in some ways deeper and more demanding. They do not give any attention to the ways in which [magical] understanding also grows, develops, and evolves... It hardly dawns upon them that [witches and warlocks] have been, from the very beginning, in constant--and mutually enriching--dialogue with [skeptics]... The path of modern science was made straight and smooth by deep convictions that every stray element in the world of human experience--from the number of hairs on one's head to the lonely lily in the meadow--is thoroughly known to [the Devil and his familiars] and, therefore, lies within a field of intelligibility, mutual connection, and multiple logics. All these odd and angular levels of reality, given arduous, disciplined, and cooperative effort, are in principle penetrable by the human mind... [Skepticism] cannot be true, because it is self-contradictory. Moreover, this self-contradiction is willful, and its latent purpose is pathetically transparent. [Skeptics] want all the comforts of the rationality that emanates from rational [sorcery], but without personal indebtedness to [the supernatural]. That is why they allow themselves to be rationalists only part of the way down. The alternative makes them very nervous." --Michael Novak, National Review

    "What's really bothersome is the suggestion that [witches] rarely question themselves while [skeptics] ask all the hard questions.... The [great warlock] Michael Novak's book "Belief and Unbelief" is a classic in self-interrogation. "How does one know that one's belief is truly in [Beelzebub]," he asks at one point, "not merely in some habitual emotion or pattern of response?" The problem with the neo-[skeptics] is that they seem as dogmatic as the dogmatists they condemn... But as Novak argued--in one of the best critiques of neo-[skepticism]--in the March 19 issue of National Review, "Questions have been the heart and soul of [conjuring] and [divination] for millennia."
     --E.J. Dionne, The Washington Post

    "The danger is that the aggression and hostility to [magic] in all its forms... deters engagement with the really interesting questions that have emerged recently in the science/[necromancy] debate. The durability and near universality of [witchcraft] is one of the most enduring conundrums of evolutionary thinking... Does [spell-casting] still have an important role in human wellbeing? ... If [sorcery] declines, what gaps does it leave in the functioning of individuals and social groups?... I suspect the New [Skeptics] are in danger of a spectacular failure. With little understanding and even less sympathy of why people increasingly use [the evil eye] in political contexts, they've missed the proverbial elephant in the room. These increasingly hysterical books may boost the pension... but one suspects that they are going to do very little to challenge the appeal of a phenomenon they loathe too much to understand."
     --Madeleine Bunting, The Guardian

    "If [magic], by definition, exceeds human measure, the demand that the existence of [the Great Horned One] be proven makes no sense because the machinery of proof, whatever it was, could not extend itself far enough to apprehend him. Proving the existence of [the Devil] would be possible only if [he]... were the kind of object that could be brought into view by a very large telescope or an incredibly powerful microscope. [The Devil], however--again if there is a [Devil]--is not in the world; the world is in him; and therefore there is no perspective, however technologically sophisticated, from which he could be spied. As that which encompasses everything, he cannot be discerned by anything or anyone because there is no possibility of achieving the requisite distance from his presence that discerning him would require. The criticism made by [skeptics] that the existence of [Satan] cannot be demonstrated is no criticism at all; for a [Devil] whose existence could be demonstrated wouldn't be a [Devil]; he would just be another object in the field of human vision. This does not mean that my arguments constitute a proof of the truth of [witchcraft]; for if I were to claim that I would be making the [skeptics'] mistake from the other direction. Nor are they arguments in which I have a personal investment. Their purpose and function is simply to show how the [skeptics'] arguments miss their mark and, indeed, could not possibly hit it."
     --Stanley Fish, The New York Times

    "Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on [witchcraft]. Card-carrying rationalists like Dawkins, who is the nearest thing to a professional [skeptic] we have had since Bertrand Russell, are in one sense the least well-equipped to understand what they castigate, since they don't believe there is anything there to be understood, or at least anything worth understanding. This is why they invariably come up with vulgar caricatures of [conjuring and divination] that would make a first-year [sorcerer's apprentice] wince...Dawkins rejects the surely reasonable case that science and [witchcraft] are not in competition on the grounds that this insulates [witchcraft] from rational inquiry. But this is a mistake... while [belief in magic], rather like love, must involve factual knowledge, it is not reducible to it... Because the universe is [the Devil's], it shares in his life, which is the life of freedom. This is why it works all by itself, and why science and Richard Dawkins are therefore both possible. The same is true of human beings: [the Devil] is not an obstacle to our autonomy and enjoyment but, as [Aleister Crowley] argues, the power that allows us to be ourselves. Like the unconscious, he is closer to us than we are to ourselves. He is the source of our self-determination, not the erasure of it. To be dependent on him, as to be dependent on our friends, is a matter of freedom and fulfillment. Indeed, friendship is the word [Crowley] uses to characterise the relation between [the Devil] and humanity...The mainstream [witchcraft] I have just outlined may well not be true; but anyone who holds it is in my view to be respected, whereas Dawkins considers that no [sorcery], anytime or anywhere, is worthy of any respect whatsoever. This, one might note, is the opinion of a man deeply averse to dogmatism. Even moderate [occult] views, he insists, are to be ferociously contested, since they can always lead to fanaticism...Such is Dawkins's unruffled scientific impartiality that in a book of almost four hundred pages, he can scarcely bring himself to concede that a single human benefit has flowed from [the belief in magic], a view which is as a priori improbable as it is empirically false."
     --Terry Eagleton, London Review of Books


     Smiley

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #199 - October 09, 2014, 07:19 AM

    Quod Sum Eris, I have no problem at all with Danish Cartoonist, I have no problem criticizing Islam, and  I whole heartedly believe that Islam is a major reason for the problems the middle east is in right now.
    I am for full freedom of speech, I am a classic liberal who doesn't believe in constraining the scope of free speech.
    You are taking the argument into a whole different place.
    I don't think ill of Harris because he may be a victim of witch hunt, the exact opposite, I think he is a corrupt, fascistic SOB because he promotes racial profiling, wars of aggression in the guise of preemptive wars (see slywalker's post), and full blown lying propaganda like his defending Israel piece.
    I never really had any problems with Dawkins, Myers or any militant atheist, it's not militant atheism I'm against, it's neo-con mass murderers and their intellectual defenders, hitching should've paused and thought about his position when he found himself supporting Wolfowitz, Feith and Cheney.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #200 - October 09, 2014, 07:25 AM

    So what do you think of the point I made about how I used Harris? Do I do it for a genuine reason (because I feel the above quote echoes my own thoughts well enough that I feel able to quote him in the way I did for my own sake) but others do it as part of some conspiracy that he may or may not be in on? Do they differ from using someone's views in the way I did?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #201 - October 09, 2014, 07:33 AM

    You can use Harris, you can quote his works on atheism and even his works on exposing the Fascism in Islam, there is no problem with that.
    But, you should use all of his works to evaluate him, in general, anyone promoting war should be looked at with magnifying glass. Sam Harris has made some very very controversial statements that are worse than Islam itself.
    Atheism is a virtue, it's waking up to deep seeded beliefs were force fed and melted into since we were kids, and questioning them, this questioning attitude should carry on to the state, politics, media and supposed intellectuals, priestly class isn't the only class looking for power.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #202 - October 09, 2014, 07:46 AM

    Quod Sum Eris,

    1).  I have no problem at all with Danish Cartoonist, I have no problem criticizing Islam, and  I whole heartedly believe that Islam is a major reason for the problems the middle east is in right now.

    2). I am for full freedom of speech, I am a classic liberal who doesn't believe in constraining the scope of free speech.  You are taking the argument into a whole different place.

    3).  I don't think ill of Harris because he may be a victim of witch hunt, the exact opposite, I think he is a corrupt, fascistic SOB because he promotes racial profiling, wars of aggression in the guise of preemptive wars (see slywalker's post), and full blown lying propaganda like his defending Israel piece.

    4).  I never really had any problems with Dawkins, Myers or any militant atheist, it's not militant atheism I'm against, it's neo-con mass murderers and their intellectual defenders, hitching should've paused and thought about his position when he found himself supporting Wolfowitz, Feith and Cheney.

    well  khalil   if you say this   I am for full freedom of speech,., then you are in soup., you must realize that is the basic problem and that is the reason why these  Harris  corrupt, fascistic SOBs and   Dawkins, Myer  militant atheism  neo-con  intellectual defenders of  mass murderers can write freely and talk freely..

    In fact they are using that "freedom of expression" to write all those books against religions or shout at good people like that AMRIKA Bill O'Reilly  or criticize  Christianity and all other religions

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Ald5f_nao

    So to stop the above bitches we should work to curb that freedom of speech and freedom of expression ..  don't you agree with me?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #203 - October 09, 2014, 07:51 AM

    Smiley
    Yeez you misunderstood me.
    I have no problem with Dawkins or Myers, they aren't part of this discussions.
    I am for full freedom of speech for everyone, and everyone should be able to criticize Islam as much as they want, I repeatedly said so.
    However, when someone cries war, we should be alert, sadly, we are alert only when muslims do it.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #204 - October 09, 2014, 08:05 AM

    Smiley
    Yeez you misunderstood me.
    I have no problem with Dawkins or Myers, they aren't part of this discussions.
    I am for full freedom of speech for everyone, and everyone should be able to criticize Islam as much as they want, I repeatedly said so.

    Well khalil I am not good in understanding some points so ask i questions and clarify to make sure I understand the points ,, So I wonder if we had, had FULL FREEDOM OF SPEECH and it is protected along with those who practice  freedom of speech by all Governments of every country   including those so-called Islamic nations., Then may be most of these recent  wars could have been easily eliminated on the discussion table..

    Quote
    However, when someone cries war, we should be alert, sadly, we are alert only when muslims do it.

    Well no.. if Muslims do it on Muslims nobody cares .. in fact they will sell weapons to both sides .   And we have to realize After Islam gets in to this political power  Muslims killed Muslims more than they killed others in the history of Islam.  

    but you are right  if Muslims are doing wars on others such as  on Jews or on Christians  rest of the world is jittery ., I wonder whether you could give a reason for that?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #205 - October 09, 2014, 08:17 AM

    It's simple Yeez, what you see in the media is what is there to promote the global empire, its banking, oil and weapons interests that move the world, not a sense of right and wrong, Iraq, Lybia, Serbia, Palestine, all of south america was plundered, and the media's role was to demonize them, and portray them, either as needing help and "democracy" to be save from vicious dictator or blood thirsty lunatics, it's been the theme since WWI, Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Imperial Japan, Communist Russia, Dictator arabs (Nassser, Saddam, Qaddafi, etc...), Latin Dictators (although dictators they propped up are never bad, like in Argentina and Chile), and now Islam, really Yeez, turn off the TV, and take a step back and the think about it.
    Anyone who makes such claims is immediately labelled conspiracy theorist, feel free to paint as one, or do the right thing and investigate history and current events for yourself.

    here's a song for you
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VucczIg98Gw
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #206 - October 09, 2014, 08:31 AM

    It's simple Yeez, what you see in the media is what is there to promote the global empire, its banking, oil and weapons interests that move the world, not a sense of right and wrong, Iraq, Lybia, Serbia, Palestine, all of south america was plundered, and the media's role was to demonize them, and portray them, either as needing help and "democracy" to be save from vicious dictator or blood thirsty lunatics, it's been the theme since WWI, Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Imperial Japan, Communist Russia, Dictator arabs (Nassser, Saddam, Qaddafi, etc...), Latin Dictators (although dictators they propped up are never bad, like in Argentina and Chile), and now Islam, really Yeez, turn off the TV, and take a step back and the think about it.
    Anyone who makes such claims is immediately labelled conspiracy theorist, feel free to paint as one, or do the right thing and investigate history and current events for yourself.


    khalil I am lost .,  you are driving the vehicle  off the road and driving in to jungles ..

    So you think this guy Sam Harris and that dead Hitch is responsible for all the above dictators and their problems with AMRIKA?

     I don't get it Khalil ,  Is this  planet  would have been better off,  if  Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Imperial Japan took over the world instead of Communist Russia, and Satan AMRIKA?

    where are you going from that Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck TV debate?  what are you saying khalil? Am I talking to khalil socialist or khalil  communist ??  .lol..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #207 - October 09, 2014, 08:39 AM

    I'm going to a very simple place Yeez
    Don't listen to people who tell war is good even on ISIS, when you know these people have ruined many countries before with their war.
    Don't listen to documented liars who lie themselves constantly into war, there war no WMDs in Iraq Yeez, Qaddafi's men weren't raping anyone and Qaddafi didn't butcher his own people, Lybia was the 2nd richest African nation.
    Don't listen to people who tell it's OK to racially profile other people Yeeze, Don't listen to Scholars who tell you that Islam is awful and should be targeted, Islam is awful, but so it the Torah and Talmud, why no one blames Judaism and christianity, don't tell only Muslims are extremists, come to Israel I'll take a tour among extremist jews.

    Question war, question hate, and don't submit to main stream media, it's very simp Yeez.
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #208 - October 09, 2014, 08:55 AM

    I'm going to a very simple place Yeez
    Don't listen to people who tell war is good even on ISIS, when you know these people have ruined many countries before with their war.

    well I agree with you AMRIKA should not fight ISIS., It is for for those who are around ISIS TO TAKE CARE OF ISIS..

    Quote
    Don't listen to documented liars who lie themselves constantly into war, there war no WMDs in Iraq Yeez, Qaddafi's men weren't raping anyone and Qaddafi didn't butcher his own people, Lybia was the 2nd richest African nation.

    All that what you said is true., but AMRIKA/western imperialists  are attacking you ..(I mean Saddam and Qaddafi)

     So what would have been best option for Saddam and Qaddafi  and for Iraqis and Libyans?

    Quote
    Don't listen to people who tell it's OK to racially profile other people Yeeze

    ,
    well I fully agree with that point..

    Quote
    Don't listen to Scholars who tell you that Islam is awful and should be targeted, Islam is awful, but so it the Torah and Talmud, why no one blames Judaism and christianity, don't tell only Muslims are extremists, come to Israel I'll take a tour among extremist jews.

    you are telling me that ?  lol OK

    Did you read any of  son of bitches Sam Harris and Hitch books and writings?  do they support Judaism and Christianity?

    Quote
    Question war, question hate, and don't submit to main stream media, it's very simp Yeez.

    yes., off course, Question war, Question hate, Question religions and question religious stupidities . I agree with many of your points Khalil

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck...
     Reply #209 - October 09, 2014, 09:17 AM

    Harris goes after other religions as well but since Islam is more media worthy  wacko he focuses on it.
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