Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


New Britain
Yesterday at 12:41 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Yesterday at 08:35 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
July 05, 2024, 10:43 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
July 03, 2024, 05:35 PM

Gaza assault
by zeca
June 30, 2024, 10:43 PM

France Muslims were in d...
June 30, 2024, 08:06 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
June 26, 2024, 11:07 AM

Lights on the way
by akay
June 26, 2024, 03:53 AM

Eid Al-Adha
by akay
June 26, 2024, 03:50 AM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
June 24, 2024, 02:38 PM

ماذا يحدث هذه الايام؟؟؟.
by akay
June 17, 2024, 01:00 PM

Jesus mythicism
by zeca
June 15, 2024, 10:14 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam

 (Read 36282 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 4 5 67 8 ... 11 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #150 - October 14, 2014, 10:59 AM

    Nope, that wasn't me.
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #151 - October 14, 2014, 11:03 AM

    Nope. I'm not going to keep quoting your entire post to reply to one or two lines in it. In fact, I think anyone here would request that you don't do that to their posts, either. It's obnoxious, and it is a distraction.

    I had a response to something in your post. I clicked the quote button and put it in there so that you knew what I was addressing. And then I told you that it was wrong. This is pretty much what we use the quote function for here. I can't help that you immediately suspected I was trying to trick the other readers into thinking that that was your direct quote (besides, don't you think anyone who was reading that page could, you know, scroll up and read your post themselves?), and I can't help that you flew off the handle. That's all on you.

    Now, since we're already talking about it, let me try to rephrase what I said up there: I do not accept this fatwa as any sort of evidence to support any claim, considering that he used a complete inaccuracy to form his conclusion. Do you understand what I'm saying?



    As for the rape claim, two things: First, chaste in this sense is not about to be "has never been touched by a man," but in the Islamic sense, which is what is lawful and chaste according to God. And having sex with your own slave is not unchaste. If you disagree, please explain, down to the very words in Arabic, why this is incorrect and that the modern-day idea of chastity is the one the Quran had in mind.

    Besides this, I can tell already that you're not going to be a very easy participant for me to walk down the path of coercion and power inequality used to gain consent as a form of rape (look into some of the reasons why statutory rape is considered criminal if you're interested), so let's, for the sake of avoiding further exercises in futility, imagine that the Quran did not condone rape. Now, I'd like to see you answer all of the other questions on this thread--the ones I actually did bring up--that you did not provide a satisfactory answer to.



    (As for the rape claim, two things: First, chaste in this sense is not about to be "has never been touched by a man," but in the Islamic sense, which is what is lawful and chaste according to God. And having sex with your own slave is not unchaste. If you disagree, please explain, down to the very words in Arabic, why this is incorrect and that the modern-day idea of chastity is the one the Quran had in mind.))


    about the Chaste part you are going against Oxford Dictionary:
    chastity
    The state or practice of refraining from extramarital, or especially from all, sexual intercourse:

    THE FACT that islam says keep yourself chaste before marriage SHOWS you can't have sex intell you are married and even when you are married the verse 24:33 and 4:19 that so far NO ONE HERE debunked it for me shows you can't rape women and so far no one showed me a single verse or a hadith that says "a man can force himself on the woman anytime without her permission (rape)" so far NO ONE and i repeat NO ONE has successfully did that so you claim islam allow rape the burden of proof is on you not me we Muslims don't have this burden and we are patiently waiting for the proof
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #152 - October 14, 2014, 11:10 AM

    No I didn't. Read carefully what I did say and please don't twist my words.


    you said :
    (but you have to present a strong case for your arguments here to stand your ground.)

    means my argument is week therefore i think you are saying I'm not intelligent because only unintelligent people present week argument
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #153 - October 14, 2014, 11:19 AM


    ..............

    THE FACT that islam says keep yourself chaste before marriage SHOWS you can't have sex intell you are married and even when you are married the verse 24:33 and 4:19 that so far NO ONE HERE debunked it for me shows you can't rape women and so far no one showed me a single verse or a hadith that says "a man can force himself on the woman anytime without her permission (rape)" so far NO ONE and i repeat NO ONE has successfully did that so you claim islam allow rape the burden of proof is on you not me we Muslims don't have this burden and we are patiently waiting for the proof
    ............

     AhmedZaid stating FACTS..,  
    So Ahmed  what did Quran and hadith say about sex?  And Does Allah need to set rules about sex?  
    Was the world and the societies before Islam didn't had any guidelines about marriage /sex and what not?
    Did Allah need to spew/write all that nonsense? Allah has nothing to do in life??

    what is the big deal about such silly verses?  They are product of their time .. The Cave dwellers time.. Why you  need to stick to that stupid verses in 21st century??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #154 - October 14, 2014, 11:23 AM

    Why does God allow  slavery in the first place?

    will that is a complex question and it's all depending on your diffention of slavery slaves happen to be slaves because of the social conditions that they have NOT because they were born like this

    but Allah is omnipotent (can do everything), why didnt he make everyone equal?


  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #155 - October 14, 2014, 11:44 AM

    AhmedZaid stating FACTS..,  
    So Ahmed  what did Quran and hadith say about sex?  And Does Allah need to set rules about sex?  
    Was the world and the societies before Islam didn't had any guidelines about marriage /sex and what not?
    Did Allah need to spew/write all that nonsense? Allah has nothing to do in life??

    what is the big deal about such silly verses?  They are product of their time .. The Cave dwellers time.. Why you  need to stick to that stupid verses in 21st century??


    (So Ahmed  what did Quran and hadith say about sex?)

    your aiming with that?Huh?? there are many verses about sex pr treatment 24:33 and 4:19 is one of them

    ( And Does Allah need to set rules about sex?  )

    yes otherwise muslim men will go crazy on sex no knowing what to do

    (Was the world and the societies before Islam didn't had any guidelines about marriage /sex and what not? )

    there was all kinds of things before islam before islam women were inferior and they were berried alive (female infanticide)

    (Did Allah need to spew/write all that nonsense? Allah has nothing to do in life??)

    so let me get this straight this is your ultimate answer when i ask for verses that is for rape in islam and when i present verses like 24:33 and 4:19 that so far no one has debunked it you will say this is nonsense?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh?


    (what is the big deal about such silly verses?  They are product of their time .. The Cave dwellers time.. Why you  need to stick to that stupid verses in 21st century??)

    i see what you are doing here when i showed evidence against rape and demanded evidence for rape you guys respond with this like i said keep it civilized and no need for swearing words now you call 4:19 nonsense??? the verse that command you not to inherent (rape or treat them unjustly and badly) women against there well you will call this nonsense?Huh??? what is your wife gonna say to you if you refuse such treatment

    BTW this is not the only evidence i have against rape and the treatment of wife i have plenty more to come but I'm trying to keep this simple
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #156 - October 14, 2014, 11:53 AM

    but Allah is omnipotent (can do everything), why didnt he make everyone equal?





    2:177 "It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing."

    2:221 "Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But God beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise."

    infact a slave woman here in this verse is better than non beliving women you see how even that she is a slave she is still better??

    24:31 "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the  slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards God, that ye may attain Bliss."

     "When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke, he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share) - (another narrator) Dawud said:" i. e. a morsel or two". 4097.

     "At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.'

    "The Prophet said, 'None of you will have faith till he wishes for his (Muslim) brother [this includes slaves, since a slave is considered a brother as shown above] what he likes for himself.'  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 12)"

    "Some people asked Allah's Apostle, 'Whose Islam is the best? i.e. (Who is a  very good Muslim)?' He replied, 'One who avoids harming the Muslims with his tongue and hands.'  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 10)"
    that include slave muslim

    "A man asked the Prophet, 'What sort of deeds or (what qualities of) Islam are good?' The Prophet replied, 'To feed (the poor) and greet those whom you know and those whom you do not Know.'  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 11)"

    4:92 "Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to God: for God hath all knowledge and all wisdom."

    5:89 "God will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth God make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful."

    58:3 "But those who divorce their wives by Zihar, then wish to go back on the words they uttered, (It is ordained that such a one) should free a slave before they touch each other: Thus are ye admonished to perform: and God is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do."

    "The Prophet said, "Give food to the hungry, pay a visit to the sick and release (set free) the one in captivity (by paying his ransom)."  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Food, Meals, Volume 7, Book 65, Number 286)"

    "'Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that 'Umar b. Khattab asked the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) as he was at ji'rana (a town near Mecca) on his way back from Ta'if: Messenger of Allah, I had taken a vow during the days of Ignorance that I would observe I'tikaf for one day in the Sacred Mosque. So what is your opinion? He said: Go and observe I'tikaf for a day. And Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) gave him a slave girl out of the one-fifth (of the spoils of war meant for the Holy Prophet). And when Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) set the war prisoners free. 'Umar b. Khattab heard their voice as they were saying: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has set us free. He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: What is this? They said: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has set free the prisoners of war (which had fallen to the lot of people). Thereupon he (Hadrat 'Umar) said: Abdullah, go to that slave-girl and set her free.  (Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4074)"

    "Zadhan reported that Ibn Umar called his slave and he found the marks (of beating) upon his back. He said to him: I have caused you pain. He said: No. But he (Ibn Umar) said: You are free. He then took hold of something from the earth and said: There is no reward for me even to the weight equal to it. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who beats a slave without cognizable offence of his or slaps him, then expiation for it is that he should set him free.   (Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4079)"


    NOW i can go on and on and there is many to come to put you might ask can a slave ask his master to set him free?Huh???
    the answer is YES

    24:33 "Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),"


    If you ask is there human Equality in Islam then i think of what i presented here the answer is Yes
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #157 - October 14, 2014, 12:02 PM

    what is disgusting the adulterer was punished and flogged for his rape crime


    Fairly sure Quod was,at least partially, talking about putting a price tag on a human being.

    أشهد أن لا إله
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #158 - October 14, 2014, 12:10 PM

    Fairly sure Quod was,at least partially, talking about putting a price tag on a human being.


    fair enough but you and him have to admit it was good that the raper receaved his punishment which is the most important part

    after all even in Islam everyone has a price allah said the best of you is who has

    49:13
    O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

    Not the one who is richer of you
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #159 - October 14, 2014, 12:15 PM

    Good..good .,  
    Quote
    yeez: (So Ahmed  what did Quran and hadith say about sex?)


    your aiming with that?Huh?? there are many verses about sex pr treatment 24:33 and 4:19 is one of them

    ( And Does Allah need to set rules about sex?  )

    yes otherwise muslim men will go crazy on sex no knowing what to do

    AhmedZaid That is bad.. very bad statement .,   muslim men will go crazy on sex?  why ? Is it specific to Muslim men?  You mean to say Muslim men don't have any control on their senses??

    No..No.. that is not right Ahmed
     
    Quote
    Quote
     yeez: (Did Allah need to spew/write all that nonsense? Allah has nothing to do in life??)

    so let me get this straight this is your ultimate answer when i ask for verses that is for rape in islam and when i present verses like 24:33 and 4:19 that so far no one has debunked it you will say this is nonsenseHuh?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh??

    Yes I say nonsense.,  all  books that have words are product of their times., nothing special.. there are few good words, few bad words and some nonsense Ahmed  ... To strictly  follow such books of cave ages is nonsense ..Absolute nonsense Ahmed..

    Anyways I am glad you started writing instead of chatting..  that is a progress..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #160 - October 14, 2014, 12:39 PM

    Good..good .,  
    your aiming with that?Huh?? there are many verses about sex pr treatment 24:33 and 4:19 is one of them

    ( And Does Allah need to set rules about sex?  )

    yes otherwise muslim men will go crazy on sex no knowing what to do
    AhmedZaid That is bad.. very bad statement .,   muslim men will go crazy on sex?  why ? Is it specific to Muslim men?  You mean to say Muslim men don't have any control on their senses??

    No..No.. that is not right Ahmed
     so let me get this straight this is your ultimate answer when i ask for verses that is for rape in islam and when i present verses like 24:33 and 4:19 that so far no one has debunked it you will say this is nonsenseHuh?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh??Yes I say nonsense.,  all  books that have words are product of their times., nothing special.. there are few good words, few bad words and some nonsense Ahmed  ... To strict follow such books of cave ages is nonsense ..Absolute nonsense Ahmed..

    Anyways I am glad you started writing instead of chatting..  that is a progress..


    (AhmedZaid That is bad.. very bad statement .,   muslim men will go crazy on sex?  why ? Is it specific to Muslim men?  You mean to say Muslim men don't have any control on their senses??)


    Good..good .,  
    your aiming with that?Huh?? there are many verses about sex pr treatment 24:33 and 4:19 is one of them

    ( And Does Allah need to set rules about sex?  )

    yes otherwise muslim men will go crazy on sex no knowing what to do
    AhmedZaid That is bad.. very bad statement .,   muslim men will go crazy on sex?  why ? Is it specific to Muslim men?  You mean to say Muslim men don't have any control on their senses??

    No..No.. that is not right Ahmed
     so let me get this straight this is your ultimate answer when i ask for verses that is for rape in islam and when i present verses like 24:33 and 4:19 that so far no one has debunked it you will say this is nonsenseHuh?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh??Yes I say nonsense.,  all  books that have words are product of their times., nothing special.. there are few good words, few bad words and some nonsense Ahmed  ... To strictly  follow such books of cave ages is nonsense ..Absolute nonsense Ahmed..

    Anyways I am glad you started writing instead of chatting..  that is a progress..



    how is it bad??? when you open a phone that you don't know how to use what do you read?Huh? (user maniual) right? Quran is the muslim user maniual there is so many things i didn't know how to deal with Quran thought me to like in 9:129 and many other verses even verses that says don't be like thoes who insult the quran and the revlations of god otherwise you will see me spewing many insults the fact that here i'm keeping myself calm is because the quran says so so why is it bad just because you can govern your life without a book therefore this book is false?Huh?? NO others don't know how to qovern there lifes so they need a book like the Quran HELL even Sam harris is making something called consiquantialism means that if something has no nagitive effects on you then do it so EVEN atheists like Richard dawkins and sam harris are giving moral values to atheists so even atheists are following some books for morality


    (so let me get this straight this is your ultimate answer when i ask for verses that is for rape in islam and when i present verses like 24:33 and 4:19 that so far no one has debunked it you will say this is nonsenseHuh?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh??Yes I say nonsense.,  all  books that have words are product of their times., nothing special.. there are few good words, few bad words and some nonsense Ahmed  ... To strictly  follow such books of cave ages is nonsense ..Absolute nonsense Ahmed..)

    If you think it's nonsense then DON'T QUOTE ANY VERSE WHAT SO EVER to support your argument
  • Re: The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #161 - October 14, 2014, 12:59 PM

    fair enough but you and him have to admit it was good that the raper receaved his punishment which is the most important part

    after all even in Islam everyone has a price allah said the best of you is who has

    49:13
    O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

    Not the one who is richer of you


    [I am speaking for myself and ONLY that]

    To my understanding, no money goes to the slave, nor is she freed. The 'slave-girl' does not get any justice, the Islamic state does.

    I would like to note that you've quoted one of the verses that states that humans were created as is, something which we know is false. That being said, even if we were to consider the verse, simply because the verse says 'RIGHTEOUS' doesn't add any substance to your argument. According to Islam, stoning adulterers is righteous, cutting off thieves' hands is righteous(something which Omar had to abandon, not a century after the Qur'an's revelation, so as not to have his whole nation hand-less), killing the non-believers and enslaving 'their women' as war booty is righteous.

    Quote
    ( And Does Allah need to set rules about sex?  )

    yes otherwise muslim men will go crazy on sex no knowing what to do


    Uhhhh...no....

    Quote
    (Was the world and the societies before Islam didn't had any guidelines about marriage /sex and what not? )

    there was all kinds of things before islam before islam women were inferior and they were berried alive (female infanticide)


    Before Islam women didn't have to cover their necks or faces, though most of them wear sorts of hair-covers, and the hijab and niqab verses were only introduced after certain sahaba kept harassing Mo's wives when they'd go potty at night.  I do not know the  statistics on the infanticides but surely some girls/women must have survived to co-exist in Mohamed's time and for his wife Khadijah to be one of the most successful business owners of her pre-Islamic time.

    أشهد أن لا إله
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #162 - October 14, 2014, 01:09 PM



    1. Infact a slave woman here in this verse is better than non beliving women you see how even that she is a slave she is still better??




    2. NOW i can go on and on and there is many to come to put you might ask can a slave ask his master to set him free?Huh???
    the answer is YES

    3. If you ask is there human Equality in Islam then i think of what i presented here the answer is Yes


    Those verses are irrelevant to my question.


    1. So in your opinion being a slave to a muslim is better than being a non-believer?


    2. Please look up the definition of "slave"

    3. No, there is not. If slavery exists, then there's no human equality.

    4. You didn't answer my question, because I didnt ask you to quote verses, rather explain why God allows slavery when he could make everyone equal.



  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #163 - October 14, 2014, 01:32 PM

    I can't quote anything you said Ahmad, your quote button is missing, but you were saying that there is no proof of rape in Islam for wives or slaves, i can't quote any hadith on my phone as it's too old and delapedated but there are plenty of well known verses stating clearly that the wife has no rights to refuse sex with her husband unless she is sick or menstruating. So according to Islam, unless she is consenting, a wife must have sex against her will, this is pretty similar to rape under duress, perhaps a lesser version but still it is duress, which is basically the use of persuasion or force or threats or psycological abuse upon a person to pressure them into an act they don't want to perform.  In my opinion and speaking from experience, within marriage, Islam condones forced marital sex, which is still a form of rape.
     
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #164 - October 14, 2014, 01:44 PM

    That, my friend, is just not even close to true. Cheesy I don't even know how to tell you how wrong that is.


    Draw us some diagrams!  Afro

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #165 - October 14, 2014, 02:15 PM

    Those verses are irrelevant to my question.


    1. So in your opinion being a slave to a muslim is better than being a non-believer?


    2. Please look up the definition of "slave"

    3. No, there is not. If slavery exists, then there's no human equality.

    4. You didn't answer my question, because I didnt ask you to quote verses, rather explain why God allows slavery when he could make everyone equal.







    1- oh god i showed you a verse that doesn't degrade slaves infact it showes slaves can be even bertter than non muslims and now you still think islam degrade slaves?

    2-i know what slave is i quoted you a verse that GIVES SLAVES the right to ask for freedome what else do you want??? this is like the greatest gift islam can give to a slave the fact that the verse says if a slaves ask for his/her freedom give it to them by paying there randsome what else of right you can ask for???this verse proves without the shadow of a doubt that slaves are to be set free in islam EVEN if they asked for it bythemsekves this is like the best thing to happen for a slave the fact that he can decide his future and want to be free unlike the master that choces when the slave is to be set free

    3-i presented you verses and hadiths "your slaves are your brothers" NOT  "your slaves are you toys" so what else could you ask for

    4-because EVERYONE IS equal i showed you from verses and i showed you that the closest you are to god the more righteous you are NOT the more richer or more larger in social level and the fact that in islam EVERYONE is a slave to allah EVEN the master proves there is quality and the hadith that i sited about a man beating his slave the prophet said if you do that the gates of hell will be opened to you and also said god has more authority over you than what you have over your slave shows that everyone is a slave to god
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #166 - October 14, 2014, 02:18 PM

    Draw us some diagrams!  Afro


    DUDE COME ON FOR GOD SAKE  finmad finmad finmad finmad finmad read the post i made READ it lua misquoted me i sited a fatwa (not me) and the main theme of it is that a man can't practice azl without the woman permission WHICH is the main point i focused on it's just happened that the sheck made and error in biological statement that might sound funny lua picked on it and misquoted the part about consent that i used in this fatwa and made it like it's my statement WHEN everyone can scroll up and see this is not my statement but rather FATWA
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #167 - October 14, 2014, 02:21 PM

    I can't quote anything you said Ahmad, your quote button is missing, but you were saying that there is no proof of rape in Islam for wives or slaves, i can't quote any hadith on my phone as it's too old and delapedated but there are plenty of well known verses stating clearly that the wife has no rights to refuse sex with her husband unless she is sick or menstruating. So according to Islam, unless she is consenting, a wife must have sex against her will, this is pretty similar to rape under duress, perhaps a lesser version but still it is duress, which is basically the use of persuasion or force or threats or psycological abuse upon a person to pressure them into an act they don't want to perform.  In my opinion and speaking from experience, within marriage, Islam condones forced marital sex, which is still a form of rape.
     


    Verses Please


    plus read 4:19 and 24:33 and many others i can quote


    and about my quote button i don't know but people have been able to quote me and respond to me so i guess you should press the red reply button find the quote that i have and there is a button on the top right that sais (post this quote) i think then use it
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #168 - October 14, 2014, 02:38 PM


    1- oh god i showed you a verse that doesn't degrade slaves infact it showes slaves can be even bertter than non muslims and now you still think islam degrade slaves?

    2-i know what slave is i quoted you a verse that GIVES SLAVES the right to ask for freedome what else do you want??? this is like the greatest gift islam can give to a slave the fact that the verse says if a slaves ask for his/her freedom give it to them by paying there randsome what else of right you can ask for???this verse proves without the shadow of a doubt that slaves are to be set free in islam EVEN if they asked for it bythemsekves this is like the best thing to happen for a slave the fact that he can decide his future and want to be free unlike the master that choces when the slave is to be set free

    3-i presented you verses and hadiths "your slaves are your brothers" NOT  "your slaves are you toys" so what else could you ask for

    4-because EVERYONE IS equal i showed you from verses and i showed you that the closest you are to god the more righteous you are NOT the more richer or more larger in social level and the fact that in islam EVERYONE is a slave to allah EVEN the master proves there is quality and the hadith that i sited about a man beating his slave the prophet said if you do that the gates of hell will be opened to you and also said god has more authority over you than what you have over your slave shows that everyone is a slave to god

     You are free to believe in your fairy tales.

    Bye.
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #169 - October 14, 2014, 02:43 PM

    you said :
    (but you have to present a strong case for your arguments here to stand your ground.)

    means my argument is week therefore i think you are saying I'm not intelligent because only unintelligent people present week argument


    Here's your problem, Ahmed. What you're hearing people say to you and what they're actually saying to you are two different things. It is a fact that if you want your argument to be taken seriously, you need to present a strong case. And now you accuse Senga of calling you unintelligent for saying that undeniable fact that applies to all of us?

    If your problem was with the intellectually honest part, I'm still your man. You had it right the first time, so there's no need to take it out on Senga. And I stand by what I said. And, no, that does not mean I was saying your "words are uneducated" or whatever it was you were saying. I explained to you precisely what I meant by this, so don't get carried away.

    Also, Ahmed, seriously. This is the last time I will tell you this. Putting a part of your post in the quote bubble does not mean I misquoted you. You are wrong. Period. And let me assure you that neither asbie nor happymurtad nor anyone else on this forum would be even half as stupid as I'd need them to be for me to trick them. I've explained this to you several times now, and yet you keep riddling the thread with caps locks and angry faces. What happened to wanting to keep the discussion civil and productive, Ahmed?

    But since you've got your heart set on taking it personally, though, I'll bite: if you didn't want someone to laugh at your post, you shouldn't have put such a stupid fatwa in there. You can say, "Oh, well it was just a biology error, and he's not a biologist!" but then why did you even choose this fatwa when the reasons for his conclusions were clearly wrong? In other words, if you don't want to be associated with stupidity, stop using it in your arguments. Don't bring this garbage to us next time, and your hands won't get dirty from it.

    Now, back to the argument. Regarding the chastity thing, maybe it is our language barrier, but I don't think you understood what I was saying. I'm saying that chastity in the Quran is used a lot to describe only having lawful intercourse. Given that intercourse between a slave and a slavemaster is halal, both parties remain chaste. Verses like 23:5 are not talking about people who swore never to have sex in their lives. It's talking about those who only engage in lawful intercourse. If you disagree with this, you need to tell me why, and show me the exact words in Arabic, and make your best case. You have not done that yet.

    Either way, I offered you an out on the rape thing. I offered to just pretend Islam does not condone rape, and let you try to pry all the other nails out of the coffin of your hypothesis. So far, you've not been able to offer a proper response to any of those criticisms that make your hypothesis ridiculous at best.
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #170 - October 14, 2014, 02:44 PM

    [I am speaking for myself and ONLY that]

    To my understanding, no money goes to the slave, nor is she freed. The 'slave-girl' does not get any justice, the Islamic state does.

    I would like to note that you've quoted one of the verses that states that humans were created as is, something which we know is false. That being said, even if we were to consider the verse, simply because the verse says 'RIGHTEOUS' doesn't add any substance to your argument. According to Islam, stoning adulterers is righteous, cutting off thieves' hands is righteous(something which Omar had to abandon, not a century after the Qur'an's revelation, so as not to have his whole nation hand-less), killing the non-believers and enslaving 'their women' as war booty is righteous.

    Uhhhh...no....

    Before Islam women didn't have to cover their necks or faces, though most of them wear sorts of hair-covers, and the hijab and niqab verses were only introduced after certain sahaba kept harassing Mo's wives when they'd go potty at night.  I do not know the  statistics on the infanticides but surely some girls/women must have survived to co-exist in Mohamed's time and for his wife Khadijah to be one of the most successful business owners of her pre-Islamic time.



    ([I am speaking for myself and ONLY that]

    To my understanding, no money goes to the slave, nor is she freed. The 'slave-girl' does not get any justice, the Islamic state does.)

    how do you know she was not freed? at the end all slaves get freed but you say she didn't get justice for her what part of (the adulterer was flagged for his crime) you don't understand (no offence) but the fact that the raper got his punishment is the most important part

    (I would like to note that you've quoted one of the verses that states that humans were created as is, something which we know is false. That being said, even if we were to consider the verse, simply because the verse says 'RIGHTEOUS' doesn't add any substance to your argument. According to Islam, stoning adulterers is righteous, cutting off thieves' hands is righteous(something which Omar had to abandon, not a century after the Qur'an's revelation, so as not to have his whole nation hand-less), killing the non-believers and enslaving 'their women' as war booty is righteous. )

    the verse that i stated says (we created you as pairs male and female ) what is wrong with that?Huh?Huh?? there is male a female

    ( false. That being said, even if we were to consider the verse, simply because the verse says '[/I]
    [/quote]

    imply because the verse says 'RIGHTEOUS' doesn't add any substance to your argument. According to Islam, stoning adulterers is righteous, cutting off thieves' hands is righteous(something which Omar had to abandon, not a century after the Qur'an's revelation, so as not to have his whole nation hand-less), killing the non-believers and enslaving 'their women' as war booty is righteous.

    ( stoning adulterers is righteous,)

    and what is wrong with killing rapers? because adulterers can be rapers

    (cutting off thieves)

    then don't steal unless the owner gives you the permission are you seriously saying theft is OK? let me ask you if somone steal your Iphone 6 are you gonna be fine with that?

    ( killing the non-believers and enslaving 'their women' as war booty is righteous. )
    verses please again the burden of proof is on you

    you basically ignored my argument when i said the closest to Allah is the most righteous NOT the richest one or has the highest social level and when i presented the proof to you you came up with will these things are bad too which is a strawman and completely out of my point
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #171 - October 14, 2014, 02:45 PM

    You are free to believe in your fairy tales.

    Bye.


    Bye hope i didn't offended you in anyway you seamed that you started to hate me
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #172 - October 14, 2014, 03:07 PM

    Here's your problem, Ahmed. What you're hearing people say to you and what they're actually saying to you are two different things. It is a fact that if you want your argument to be taken seriously, you need to present a strong case. And now you accuse Senga of calling you unintelligent for saying that undeniable fact that applies to all of us?

    If your problem was with the intellectually honest part, I'm still your man. You had it right the first time, so there's no need to take it out on Senga. And I stand by what I said. And, no, that does not mean I was saying your "words are uneducated" or whatever it was you were saying. I explained to you precisely what I meant by this, so don't get carried away.

    Also, Ahmed, seriously. This is the last time I will tell you this. Putting a part of your post in the quote bubble does not mean I misquoted you. You are wrong. Period. And let me assure you that neither asbie nor happymurtad nor anyone else on this forum would be even half as stupid as I'd need them to be for me to trick them. I've explained this to you several times now, and yet you keep riddling the thread with caps locks and angry faces. What happened to wanting to keep the discussion civil and productive, Ahmed?

    But since you've got your heart set on taking it personally, though, I'll bite: if you didn't want someone to laugh at your post, you shouldn't have put such a stupid fatwa in there. You can say, "Oh, well it was just a biology error, and he's not a biologist!" but then why did you even choose this fatwa when the reasons for his conclusions were clearly wrong? In other words, if you don't want to be associated with stupidity, stop using it in your arguments. Don't bring this garbage to us next time, and your hands won't get dirty from it.

    Now, back to the argument. Regarding the chastity thing, maybe it is our language barrier, but I don't think you understood what I was saying. I'm saying that chastity in the Quran is used a lot to describe only having lawful intercourse. Given that intercourse between a slave and a slavemaster is halal, both parties remain chaste. Verses like 23:5 are not talking about people who swore never to have sex in their lives. It's talking about those who only engage in lawful intercourse. If you disagree with this, you need to tell me why, and show me the exact words in Arabic, and make your best case. You have not done that yet.

    Either way, I offered you an out on the rape thing. I offered to just pretend Islam does not condone rape, and let you try to pry all the other nails out of the coffin of your hypothesis. So far, you've not been able to offer a proper response to any of those criticisms that make your hypothesis ridiculous at best.



    (Here's your problem, Ahmed. What you're hearing people say to you and what they're actually saying to you are two different things. It is a fact that if you want your argument to be taken seriously, you need to present a strong case. And now you accuse Senga of calling you unintelligent for saying that undeniable fact that applies to all of us?)

    this goes back to something called language barrier from my country and my language and where i understand if some say your argument is week then your mind is week if that is diffrent in where you live then fine forget about it

    (Also, Ahmed, seriously. This is the last time I will tell you this. Putting a part of your post in the quote bubble does not mean I misquoted you. You are wrong. Period. And let me assure you that neither asbie nor happymurtad nor anyone else on this forum would be even half as stupid as I'd need them to be for me to trick them. I've explained this to you several times now, and yet you keep riddling the thread with caps locks and angry faces. What happened to wanting to keep the discussion civil and productive, Ahmed?)

    look at what i said i said (the main point of the fatwa i sited is that a man can't have azl with a woman unless she gives him his permission) that is the sole and the CORE of my argument here but why you didn't take it for considration??? and just focused on the funny part secound your statment about his biological conclusion to me was irralivant AGAIN My main point is his statment that a man can;t do azl with a woman unless he get her permission if he made a biological error at the end that is not my fault everyone can see that and yes i do want to make it civilized but what you did made more than 3 people laugh at me for a statement that i didn't said

    (But since you've got your heart set on taking it personally, though, I'll bite: if you didn't want someone to laugh at your post, you shouldn't have put such a stupid fatwa in there. You can say, "Oh, well it was just a biology error, and he's not a biologist!" but then why did you even choose this fatwa when the reasons for his conclusions were clearly wrong? In other words, if you don't want to be associated with stupidity, stop using it in your arguments. Don't bring this garbage to us next time, and your hands won't get dirty from it. )

    I did said it's a biology error and his biology conclusion is irrelevant to my argument when some one says the car has four wheels and doesn't have glass I'll guote him to support the idea that the car has four wheels but i will leave out his error quote that it doesn't have glass when i gout him people will say LOL what are you talking about the car DOES have glass i'll say that is not my point i quoted him for his statement that the car has four wheels that is all you see how that will be wrong from the people who will judge me???  AGAIN my main reason to quote him is his statment that a man can't practise azil withput woman permission (consent) pleas understand that

    (Now, back to the argument. Regarding the chastity thing, maybe it is our language barrier, but I don't think you understood what I was saying. I'm saying that chastity in the Quran is used a lot to describe only having lawful intercourse. Given that intercourse between a slave and a slavemaster is halal, both parties remain chaste. Verses like 23:5 are not talking about people who swore never to have sex in their lives. It's talking about those who only engage in lawful intercourse. If you disagree with this, you need to tell me why, and show me the exact words in Arabic, and make your best case. You have not done that yet.)

    AGAIN back to my point i asked you for verses to prove rape in islam so far no one was successful in that but your logic doesn't work here just because islam said it's ok for a man to have sex with a slave woman doesn't mean he can rape her you are twisting the quran to suits your agenda if i said to my brother he can have sex with these women and people will say "AHMED is allowing his brother to RAPE these women" do you realize how stupid they will be??? just because the quran says you can have sex with these women doesn't mean you can rape them and i already presented several hadiths and verses AGAINST rape yet you say"You have not done that yet" please check the comments before you i don't want to repeat myself of how imam malik was against rape and so on and so forth your claim that Islam allow rape (sex without consent) has yet to be proven infact i consider it a hypothesis again and i'll say that for the last time show me a verse that says "a man can force himself on any woman without her permission" I'm waiting again the burden of proof is on you


    (Either way, I offered you an out on the rape thing. I offered to just pretend Islam does not condone rape, and let you try to pry all the other nails out of the coffin of your hypothesis. So far, you've not been able to offer a proper response to any of those criticisms that make your hypothesis ridiculous at best. )

    no you didn't and no one has all what you guys showed me is verses that says a man can have sex with female slaves NOTHING about rape here your argument is yet to be proven saying the quran says a man can have sex with female slaves means rape is a strawman I'm waiting the burden of proof again is on you

    also about your criticism to my hypothesis RAPE has nothing to do with it it's about slavery so rendering your last comment irreverent
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #173 - October 14, 2014, 03:11 PM

    Omg Ahmed, you have your work cut out here. Not just because you are up against all of these brilliant minds, but also because there is a chance that, deep down, you are arguing contrary to your own common sense, your own brain, your own conscience, and even your own heart. At the moment though, you seem to be doing a determined job, and I admire your good spirits and sportsmanship.

    Anyways, feel free to take a break and wander around some of the less taxing threads? Try the music one for instance?

    Hi
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #174 - October 14, 2014, 03:22 PM

    how do you know she was not freed? at the end all slaves get freed but you say she didn't get justice for her what part of (the adulterer was flagged for his crime) you don't understand (no offence) but the fact that the raper got his punishment is the most important part

    No offence but your posts are incredibly hard to read. Nothing was said about her being freed so no such result should be assumed, and I disagree, though a sort of revenge might provide some psychological relief(?), but she is still a slave, and she still got raped, and she didn't get compensated in anyway.

    Quote
    the verse that i stated says (we created you as pairs male and female ) what is wrong with that?Huh?Huh?? there is male a female


    FACT: Humans were NOT 'created', we evolved. If you want to argue that anything was created, you'd have a much better time arguing that the first primal form of life was the one created(an argument that your Qur'an doesn't allow you to initiate, as a Muslim).

    Quote
    and what is wrong with killing rapers? because adulterers can be rapers


    Not that I personally even agree with killing rapers, but a huge chunk of adulterers are NOT rapers.

    Quote
    then don't steal unless the owner gives you the permission are you seriously saying theft is OK? let me ask you if somone steal your Iphone 6 are you gonna be fine with that?


    I don't own an iphone 6. I've ever had two phones stolen, one was stolen at knife-point. For a couple of days I'd wanted the 2 people who threatened me to burn in hell forever, but I am no longer that hateful, I simply hope that things work out for them somehow so that they no longer feel the need to rob people.


    Quote
    Quote
    killing the non-believers and enslaving 'their women' as war booty is righteous. )

    verses please again the burden of proof is on you


    Quote from: Sahih Bukhari 5:59:512
    Narrated Anas: The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer near Khaibar when it was still dark and then said, "Allahu-Akbar! Khaibar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a (hostile) nation (to fight), then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned." Then the inhabitants of Khaibar came out running on the roads. The Prophet had their warriors killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives. Safiya was amongst the captives, She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the Prophet . The Prophet made her manumission as her 'Mahr'.


    Surely, Mohamed is the most righteous of men?

    Quote
    you basically ignored my argument when i said the closest to Allah is the most righteous NOT the richest one or has the highest social level and when i presented the proof to you you came up with will these things are bad too which is a strawman and completely out of my point

    Quote
    A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument

    I am not misrepresenting your argument, I am simply stating that your 'righteousness' argument doesn't mean jack shit.
    [/quote]
    Verses Please


    plus read 4:19 and 24:33 and many others i can quote


    I don't know the exact verses mentioned but the simple existence of a different verse which seems to hold a different opinion doesn't nullify the other verses. If anything, it only makes matters worse.

    Although I can't personally vouch for the following links, I am not linking these in an argumentative context; I am simply linking them for you to read:
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/ashraf.html
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

    Best of luck.

    أشهد أن لا إله
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #175 - October 14, 2014, 03:23 PM

    no you didn't and no one has.,   all what you guys showed me is verses that says a man can  have sex with female slaves.  NOTHING about rape here  in your argument is yet to be proven.,   Saying the Quran says "a man can have sex with female slaves means rape is a strawman".   I'm waiting the burden of proof again is on you

    Also about your criticism to my hypothesis.,  RAPE has nothing to do with it,   it's about slavery.  So rendering your last comment irreverent

    That sounds very good to me., Boy you do write well    Zaid.,

    Did you read Quran  and whole Quan?

    Would you like to read it with me Ahmed?

     May be I should start reading Quran again...  

    Scan through this link http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16106.0

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #176 - October 14, 2014, 03:29 PM

    Omg Ahmed, you have your work cut out here. Not just because you are up against all of these brilliant minds, but also because there is a chance that, deep down, you are arguing contrary to your own common sense, your own brain, your own conscience, and even your own heart. At the moment though, you seem to be doing a determined job, and I admire your good spirits and sportsmanship.

    Anyways, feel free to take a break and wander around some of the less taxing threads? Try the music one for instance?


    i do lesson to music LOl and enjoy life aswell nothing is wrong with that right?Huh?? BTW i'm not angry but lua associated rape with my hypothesis which my hypothesis has nothing to do with it i didn't plan for this thread to turn into this heated fight and I'm quite sure i didn't insulted or offended anyone here if i did i apologize and take back my words for it I'm fully ready to accept any criticism and not afraid of speaking my opinion in public I already accepted many problematic hadiths here posted in this thread and i agreed it's problematic but is it to much to ask for to put it in the scop of logic and reason and see if the conclusion derived into it is valid??? is it too much to diccect a claim and see if it's valid is it too much too ask for a single verse the promote rape??? it it too much to ask for a verse that says your slaves are your toys is it too much to ask for a verse that says do what ever you want with your women without there consent??? is it to much to ask for a single valid point against the quran in terms of slave treatment or allowance of rape?Huh? is it too much please tell me

    no doubt they are intelligent but they have to admit I'm on the same bot  (no self bragging here) that my argument against rape not a single one of them was refuted and not a single one refuted 4:19 and 24:33 and the fact that Muhammad said women is the half of man soul if you are saying my argument is stupid then why are you wasting your time with me

    (you are arguing contrary to your own common sense, your own brain, your own conscience, and even your own heart. )
    where excatly???


    at the end of the day we all have opposing ideas i think you and everyone here learned something new to work with today same apply on me i have no hatred toward ex-muslims quite frankly i think they are closer to my heart than atheists (non ex-muslims) of course muslims are the closest to me but ex-muslims i don't hate them at all even if some of them hated me (which i saw on YouTube some of them) i have no hard feeling for any of you but what happen what lua did made me look in bad image and made 3 people laugh over something i didn't said

    anyway no hard feelings i hope i know this was a heated discussion but hay it's more than 10 non believers vs just 1 (me) and of course this is unfair and a handicap but i'll take the challenge any time and i hope i didn't offend anyone here
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #177 - October 14, 2014, 03:50 PM

    I  do listen  to music LOl and enjoy life as well,  nothing is wrong with that right???   BTW I am not angry but lua associated rape with my hypothesis which my hypothesis has nothing to do with it.   I didn't plan for this thread to turn into this heated fight and I'm quite sure i didn't insult  or offend anyone here. If I did,  I  apologize and take back my words.  

     I am fully ready to accept any criticism and not afraid of speaking my opinion in public.  I already accepted many problematic hadiths here posted in this thread and I agreed it's problematic.  But is it to much to ask for to put it in the scope of logic and reason and see if the conclusion derived into it is valid???

     Is it too much to dissect a claim and see if it's valid?
     Is it too much too ask for a single verse the promote rape???
     Is it too much to ask for a verse that says your slaves are your toys?
     Is it too much to ask for a verse that says do what ever you want with your women without there consent???
     Is it to much to ask for a single valid point against the Quran in terms of slave treatment or allowance of rape?Huh?
    Is it too much please tell me

    no doubt they are intelligent but they have to admit I'm on the same boat  (no self bragging here) and on  that my argument against rape,  not a single one of them was refuted and not a single one refuted on verse  4:19 and 24:33.  And  and the fact that Muhammad said women is the half of man soul,  if you are saying my argument is stupid then why are you wasting your time with me

    Quote
    (you are arguing contrary to your own common sense, your own brain, your own conscience, and even your own heart.)

     where exactly???

    at the end of the day we all have opposing ideas. I think you and everyone here learned something new to work with   today. Same apply on me, I have no hatred towards ex-muslims.  Quite frankly I think they are closer to my heart than atheists (non ex-muslims) of course Muslims are the closest to me. But ex-Muslims,  I don't hate them at all. Even if some of them hated me (which I saw on YouTube some of them) I have no hard feeling for any of you but what happen what lua did,  made me look in bad image and made 3 people laugh over something I didn't said

    Anyway no hard feelings I hope I know this was a heated discussion,  but hay it's more than 10 non believers vs just 1 (me).   And of course this is unfair and a handicap but I will take the challenge any time and I hope I didn't offend anyone here

      I just re-did his post without changing anything  but See that how wonderful AhmedZaid sounds..

    Ahmed please continue to read write ., I agree with you.,  It is indeed unfair and handicap  for one guy to debate some 10 people ..  

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #178 - October 14, 2014, 03:54 PM

    Ahmed, don’t take attacks on your ideas as attacks on your person. Quite frankly, you’ve been here spewing apologetics for one of the most heinous human rights abuses known to man, whether you realize it or not. These bad ideas have real life consequences. When viewed from a historical standpoint, it is true that the ancient world was a far different and much less pleasant place than what we are used to today. But we human beings can only progress if we learn from the mistakes of our past and move beyond them, not seek to justify them. That is why you have received such a strong reaction from the members here. The situation in our planet today shows why it is so important for bad ideas to be vehemently challenged.
  • The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
     Reply #179 - October 14, 2014, 03:59 PM

    Bye hope i didn't offended you in anyway you seamed that you started to hate me

    I don't have the patience of reading non-sense.

    You say that you don't hate anyone of us on here, but at the same time you are comfortable with the idea that apostates should be sentenced to death.

    I dont know how that is different from hate?



  • Previous page 1 ... 4 5 67 8 ... 11 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »