If you wanted to give us a fatwa that said it can be practiced because wives have a right to children, then you should have done that, instead of one that incorporated a huge error into the argument. There's no shortage of sources that say this is permissible. But you can never use the testimony of someone whose account is in error to support your own position. It just doesn't work.
So besides the fact that, before you started ranting and raving at the fact that I found that fatwa funny, I was telling you that the azl part was completely irrelevant and that you missed the point, you should take a lesson from this. If you are so afraid that people will start laughing at you or thinking you might be unintelligent, keep these laughable and stupid fatwas and sources out of your arguments. That's my advice to you.
1. Not every non-Muslim believes that Islam allows rape.
2. I do think that the way the Quran and the hadith are worded, it allows for rape, and at the very least does not protect any woman from it. Marital rape is absolutely condoned. But this isn't the subject. I just replied to the rape thing on a whim. Do you need me to remind you of the questions I had wanted you to answer all along, or are you hoping to avoid dealing with them by refusing to drop the rape argument?
3. We have shown you our arguments that Islam condones rape, but you're just not processing it. Maybe it's because of the language barrier. You and I were talking about a Quranic verse. You made a claim that chastity meant virginity in that verse. I am asking you to support your claim with evidence, which you have yet to do. You can't just ignore this discussion we were having and then say "Well, no one ever showed me any evidence for rape!"
Whether or not the slaves are mistreated, if they are still slaves, if they still do not have the freedom to leave their masters, it's still immoral. And who here ever suggested you couldn't free a slave in Islam? We're not worried about that. We're worried about the fact you could have them to begin with.
But yes, I will agree that it's quite clear that this is a pretty futile engagement, Ahmed. And I'm just going to say this, you can take it or leave it, it's no skin off my back, but: I would recommend that you take a break from debating like this in English until you actually understand the language better. Not only is it challenging to understand what you're saying, you're routinely misunderstanding what other people are saying. I don't think that you're getting anything out of this, and I dare say you haven't convinced scores of people, yourself.
Just my advice. It'll save you and the people you debate with a lot of trouble if you come back when you understand the language more, so that you can actually understand and address the points that are being made to you.
this is gonna be my last reply to you lua because this is not getting anywhere maybe it's a text problem and if we had skype chat this might get fixed
(If you wanted to give us a fatwa that said it can be practiced because wives have a right to children, then you should have done that, instead of one that incorporated a huge error into the argument. There's no shortage of sources that say this is permissible. But you can never use the testimony of someone whose account is in error to support your own position. It just doesn't work.)
I already did that Read the first comment i made about the Fatwa
(1. Not every non-Muslim believes that Islam allows rape.)
i didn't said All non-muslims belives islam allow rape i said YOU GUYS means the people in this post
(2. I do think that the way the Quran and the hadith are worded, it allows for rape, and at the very least does not protect any woman from it. Marital rape is absolutely condoned. But this isn't the subject. I just replied to the rape thing on a whim. Do you need me to remind you of the questions I had wanted you to answer all along, or are you hoping to avoid dealing with them by refusing to drop the rape argument?)
Evidence please?
show me again where does it says a man can force himself on any woman even against her consent so far you faild one after another to prove so and your argument is very shallow ( and at the very least does not protect any woman from it)
FALSE read 4:19 and 24:33 i can bring hadiths aswell but verses are much stronger evidence so far no one and i repeat NO ONE commented or refuted 4:19 adn 24:33
( Marital rape is absolutely condoned.)
evidence plaese?
again marital rape is a type of rape when islam say you can't rape women means marital rape is included aswell read 4:19 and 24:33
(I just replied to the rape thing on a whim.)
NO you didn't
( Do you need me to remind you of the questions I had wanted you to answer all along, or are you hoping to avoid dealing with them by refusing to drop the rape argument?))
is it about azl hadith??? don't bother you must tell me what is the point of the hadith before even quoting it you just put it there and i assumed you are talking about azl part like every ant-muslim propaganda website does
(But yes, I will agree that it's quite clear that this is a pretty futile engagement, Ahmed. And I'm just going to say this, you can take it or leave it, it's no skin off my back, but: I would recommend that you take a break from debating like this in English until you actually understand the language better. Not only is it challenging to understand what you're saying, you're routinely misunderstanding what other people are saying. I don't think that you're getting anything out of this, and I dare say you haven't convinced scores of people, yourself. )
are you telling me that I'm ignorant in debating or what?? my English isn't bad i study computer technology engineering so English is very important for me
(Whether or not the slaves are mistreated, if they are still slaves, if they still do not have the freedom to leave their masters, it's still immoral. And who here ever suggested you couldn't free a slave in Islam? We're not worried about that. We're worried about the fact you could have them to begin with. )
(Whether or not the slaves are mistreated, if they are still slaves)
ok but tell me how can you still consider them slaves when they are to be set free
( if they still do not have the freedom to leave their masters)
FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE this shows you never read my respond read 24:33 gives the slave ALL the right to ask for freedom rendering your comment futile
( And who here ever suggested you couldn't free a slave in Islam? We're not worried about that. We're worried about the fact you could have them to begin with.)
and what if Islam gave them the right to be free at anytime they want hense 24:33 ha?
any way this is my last reply not only i lost so much energy into this but NO one refuted anything i said every respond i received was illogical has logical fallacies or misquotations
Topic: The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam