The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam

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- zeca
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The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
Reply #300 - October 15, 2014, 02:55 PM

A whole essay of apologetics for the Islamic position on slavery. Maybe someone with more patience and knowledge than me would like to take this apart:

Muhammad the Abolitionist: Slavery in the Qur'an
Quote
The existence of slavery is an ancient condition. It existed long before the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad, starting in 610 C.E. What is interesting is comparing the depiction of slavery in the Qur'an to the Old and New Testament. In these older Jewish and Christian holy texts, a specific plan to eliminate the human bondage of our temporal present is never discussed. The Qur'an, on the other hand, not only recognized the immorality of slavery in seventh century Arabia, but sought to end it. The plan to do so is both implicit and explicit. To recognize this is to respect the Islamic attempt, in the name of Allah, to destroy an evil custom nearly thirteen centuries before America would legally and politically do the same...

Quote
The Prophet Muhammad did not believe that only the slaves of a particular race, religion, or ethnicity should be freed; instead, he desired to break the chains of slaves all over the world. The fact that the Qur'an did so with a specificity unparalleled in a monotheistic holy text makes it one of the greatest of anti-slavery books, and Muhammad himself one of the greatest of abolitionists. Peace be upon him.

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- xtremestr
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The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
Reply #301 - October 15, 2014, 04:47 PM

Quote
The existence of slavery is an ancient condition. It existed long before the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad, starting in 610 C.E. What is interesting is comparing the depiction of slavery in the Qur'an to the Old and New Testament. In these older Jewish and Christian holy texts, a specific plan to eliminate the human bondage of our temporal present is never discussed. The Qur'an, on the other hand, not only recognized the immorality of slavery in seventh century Arabia, but sought to end it. The plan to do so is both implicit and explicit. To recognize this is to respect the Islamic attempt, in the name of Allah, to destroy an evil custom nearly thirteen centuries before America would legally and politically do the same...

That awkward moment when "Allah's" plan failed miserably and Muslims Arabs are one of the leading ethnic groups in slave trading to this day.

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- bogart
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The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
Reply #302 - October 15, 2014, 07:51 PM

No need for a huge refutation. One just needs to look at history to show
Quote from: zeca on October 15, 2014, 02:55 PM
A whole essay of apologetics for the Islamic position on slavery. Maybe someone with more patience and knowledge than me would like to take this apart:

Muhammad the Abolitionist: Slavery in the Qur'an

Most of the arguments in that article has already been mentioned in the thread. There is also the issue of history showing it took secular law to make slavery illegal. Sharia was incapable of making it illegal. The article only works on those that wish to ignore reality.
- AhmedZaid9119
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The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
Reply #303 - October 15, 2014, 09:05 PM

Quote from: bogart on October 15, 2014, 12:20 AM
Follow the comments.

Follow the trail of comments. A deed is a formal document which details the sum it will costs for a slave's freedom. Your first hadith shows that a slave has value. The master pays the cost. The above quote also has parameters "know any good in them" so this allows the master to keep "bad slaves". It also has a cost. Good/Bad becomes an subjective standard of the master so law has no say in this matter, the law leaves it up to the master..The comment before this was about the situations slaves could gain freedom. You provided verses in the case of law which was punishment for the master. There is also the deed. There is also freedom in which the master gains a benefit in the eyes of Allah. These are specific cases. If a case has parameters it becomes specific. However none of these verses provide justification for a slave deciding not to be a slave anymore. So your own argument actually justifies the point you were arguing against. You refuted your own argument

Take your time, you are getting overwhelmed by arguments against your position due to numbers. Reply when you can.

Quote from: Ishina on October 15, 2014, 01:07 AM
It's not from Abu Dawud. It's from Sahih Muslim.

Anyway, bored of your chicanery.

Quote from: billy on October 15, 2014, 01:01 AM
(Clicky for piccy!)

Quote from: bogart on October 15, 2014, 12:20 AM
Follow the comments.

Follow the trail of comments. A deed is a formal document which details the sum it will costs for a slave's freedom. Your first hadith shows that a slave has value. The master pays the cost. The above quote also has parameters "know any good in them" so this allows the master to keep "bad slaves". It also has a cost. Good/Bad becomes an subjective standard of the master so law has no say in this matter, the law leaves it up to the master..The comment before this was about the situations slaves could gain freedom. You provided verses in the case of law which was punishment for the master. There is also the deed. There is also freedom in which the master gains a benefit in the eyes of Allah. These are specific cases. If a case has parameters it becomes specific. However none of these verses provide justification for a slave deciding not to be a slave anymore. So your own argument actually justifies the point you were arguing against. You refuted your own argument

Take your time, you are getting overwhelmed by arguments against your position due to numbers. Reply when you can.

first i already said i stopped responding i lost to much energy responding to all of you guys so sorry Ishina and everyone else contact me on Skype if you want our discussion to continue and zeca sorry you should asked me before i stopped because i can't do that the more i respond the more i get over 5x responses and to Ishina i just checked your hadith it's from sahih i thought at the begging it was from sunna abu dawood which is a false translation so i apologize however about it i faild it see the word rape in it but anyway contact me on Skype i really can't respond on top of all that my exams are getting closer
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The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
Reply #304 - October 15, 2014, 09:12 PM

It's okay, I'm fairly sure Zeca was mostly just linking this here as more of a 'slavery in Islam' mega-thread rather than trying to start up an argument, or so I think.

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- zeca
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The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
Reply #305 - October 15, 2014, 09:27 PM

Yes, it just seemed relevant here. Maybe I should have made a separate thread.

Ahmed, I wasn't looking for a response from you and I think you're right to take a break from this argument.

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The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
Reply #306 - October 15, 2014, 09:51 PM

Quote from: AhmedZaid9119 on October 15, 2014, 09:05 PM

first i already said i stopped responding i lost to much energy responding to all of you guys so sorry Ishina and everyone else contact me on Skype if you want our discussion to continue and zeca sorry you should asked me before i stopped because i can't do that the more i respond the more i get over 5x responses and to Ishina i just checked your hadith it's from sahih i thought at the begging it was from sunna abu dawood which is a false translation so i apologize however about it i faild it see the word rape in it but anyway contact me on Skype i really can't respond on top of all that my exams are getting closer

You are free to respond or not. This does not mean I am required to stop as well.
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The Hypothesis or slavery allowance (if that is how it called) in Islam
Reply #307 - October 15, 2014, 09:57 PM

Quote from: musivore on October 15, 2014, 07:32 AM
Awww, that's lovely. If I could use that smiley that has the love hearts floating around the loved up head, then I would send one to both you and Ahmed right now.

I'll just imagine you did and send you one back.
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