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Theme Changer

 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #360 - June 15, 2015, 04:00 PM

    https://mobile.twitter.com/theologyGSR/status/610395234397130752
    Quote
    Gabriel S Reynolds
    @theologyGSR

    Important conference on early Islam begins today in Milan featuring @iandavidmorris, @MehdiAzaiez and others:  http://www.4enoch.org/wiki3/index.php?title=Early_Islam:_The_Sectarian_Milieu_of_Late_Antiquity%3F_/_Fourth_Nangeroni_Meeting_(2015_Milan),_conference

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #361 - June 15, 2015, 04:07 PM

    Will it be on video and online?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #362 - June 15, 2015, 04:10 PM

    ^I haven't seen any suggestion of this but some of the papers being presented are already online.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #363 - June 15, 2015, 08:26 PM

    Many excellent papers coming out in connection with that conference.  Of the papers that haven't been posted yet, I am most interested in Kropp's and Shoemaker's.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #364 - June 17, 2015, 08:31 PM

    Mehdi Azaiez - Qur’anic Counter-Discourse

    https://iqsaweb.wordpress.com/2015/06/15/azaiez_contre-discours-book/
    Quote
    ....
    It is likely that the historical portraits of Muhammad’s opponents in the traditional Islamic sources (especially the sīrah literature) are problematic. To put it more precisely, the opponents of the Qur’an were probably not pagans. Their objections, as reported in qur’anic counter-discourse, are mostly monotheistic in character. Statements that imply that they may have been pagan are very few (see my Chapter VII), and appear to be based on a discursive strategy of exaggeration that is typical of polemical language.
    ...

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #365 - June 17, 2015, 09:32 PM

    Awesome, and 100% true.  It is depressing how poorly that critical point is understood even by many eminent specialists in Qur'anic studies.

    I make similar arguments in my revised Q 97 essay.  An example:

    "This does not mean this rhetoric designated a historical person.  This text tries to distance the recitation from what, to the putative interlocutors, was its obvious source in a foreign language that the Qur’ān studiously avoids mentioning because of its forgery implications, surely a form of Aramaic.  Coupled with the accusations of changing verses, and the peculiar Incarnation phrasing of Q 16:102, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that these verses defend a rewriting of older Arabic recitations that were closer to Syriac Christianity, creating considerable opposition among believers who held more “Christian” views, and were offended by innovative Qur’ānic revisions.  Such changes had to be justified, and strategies were taken to minimize the resulting conflicts, but the need to differentiate the emerging faith from the mush’rikūn (the negative correlate of the differentiating anti-polytheistic doctrines, rather than a defined population) had become paramount."

    The artificial and polemical nature of the mush’rikūn, which are a derivative of the argument's form and content (i.e. they are defined by their opposition to the confessional point being asserted, not by an empirical description of an actual group of people), is obvious.  It is actually kind of sad to see the depth of naivety that still permeates the academic field in analyzing Qur'anic polemic; instead of analyzing it like you would any other similar polemic, you get regaled with tales of Mystical Arabia and the Meccan mush’rikūn.  Hopefully books like Azaiez's new contribution will help remove such critical failure.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #366 - June 18, 2015, 12:45 PM

    A bit off topic: All of the six authors of Sunni Islams books of hadith, are Persian. I wonder how many of them were descendents of zoroastrians or jews.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #367 - June 18, 2015, 03:49 PM

    A bit off topic: All of the six  authors of Sunni Islams books of hadith, are Persian. I wonder how many of them were descendents of zoroastrians or jews.

    That is an excellent  point   you have highlighted Skywalker., Often many Muslims and non-Muslim do  not know much about these guys. So let me add a bit to your  words that "all these hadith accumulators were Persian story tellers"

    So those   Six Compilers of hadith are        

    Quote
    1. Imam al-Bukhaari:  Muhammad bin Ismail al-Bukhari, the author of Sahih Bukhari. He was born on July 19, 810 at Bukhara in Central Asia and died on August 31, 870 at a place known as Khartank, near Samarkhand.

    2.  Imam Muslim bin Hajjah al-Nishapuri: He  was born in Nishapur in Iran, in  821 CE and died in the same city in  874 CE. His Sahih Muslim is second in authenticity, next to that of Bukhari.

    3. Imam Abu Dawood:   Th eother name of this Imam is "Imam Abu Dawood   aka  Sulaymaan ibn al-Ash’ath ibn Shaddaad ibn ‘Amr ibn Ishaaq ibn Basheer al-Azdi al-Sajistani",  from Sajistan .   He was born in 202 AH. He traveled to Baghdad where he met Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal and stayed with him; he also looked like him.  He also traveled to the Hijaz, Iraq, Khurasaan, Syria, Egypt and the borders of the Islamic world. Al-Nasaa’i, al-Tirmidhi and others narrated hadeeth from him. He attained the highest degree of piety and righteousness.  His book al-Sunan includes more than 5300 ahaadeeth.  He remained in Basrah until he died in the year 888 AH.  

    4. Imam al-Tirmidhi :   His full name was Muhammad ibn ‘Eesa ibn Soorah ibn Moosa ibn al-Dahhaak al-Salami al-Tirmidhi, Abu Eesa. He came from Tirmidh, once of the cities of Transoxiana, after which he was named. He was one of the leading scholars of hadeeth and memorization of hadeeth. He was born in 209 AH and studied under al-Bukhaari;
     
     5. Imam al-Nasaa’i: . The other name of this imam is Ahmad ibn Shu’ayb ibn ‘Ali ibn Sinaan ibn Bahr ibn Dinar al-Nasaa’i, Abu ‘Abd al-Rahmaan. He came from the city of Nasa in Khurasaan, after which he was named (Nasawi or Nasaa’i). He was born in 215 AH   He died in Makkah and was buried in a place between the Safa and Marwah. The year of his death was 303 AH.

    6. Imaam Ibn Maajah : Sixth of the compilers is Abu Abdullah Muhammad ibn Yazid ibn Majah al-Rab’i al-Qazwini, commonly known as Imam Ibn Majah who was born in Qazwin in Persia in 209 AH or 824 CE. He was a hafiz of hadith and the author of Kitab as-Sunnah, one of the six most authentic collections of ahadith. He died on 22 Ramadan 273 AH or 887 CE in Qazwin


    Well Persians are/were very imaginative and good story tellers/story writers.. all these guys were nothing to do with so-called Muhammad... The Prophet of Islam..  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #368 - June 18, 2015, 06:26 PM

    Seventh Woodbrook-Mingana Symposium on Arab Christianity and Islam: The Qur’ān and Arab Christianity

    http://www.uco.es/revistas/index.php/cco/article/viewFile/207/204
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #369 - June 18, 2015, 06:42 PM

    Seventh Woodbrook-Mingana Symposium on Arab Christianity and Islam: The Qur’ān and Arab Christianity

    http://www.uco.es/revistas/index.php/cco/article/viewFile/207/204


    I would say Quran is nothing to do with Arabs of that time ., Hadith is nothing to do with Arabs of that time and to start with Islam is nothing to do with Arabs..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #370 - June 18, 2015, 11:04 PM

    I can't remember if I've already put this link up...

    Patricia Crone - "No compulsion in religion" Q. 2:256 in mediaeval and modern interpretation

    https://www.hs.ias.edu/files/Crone_Articles/Crone_la_ikraha.pdf
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #371 - June 22, 2015, 07:39 PM

    Quote from: Ian David Morris
    Some thoughts follow on the 4th Nangeroni Meeting held this past week...

    https://mobile.twitter.com/iandavidmorris/status/612269448670658561
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #372 - June 24, 2015, 12:57 AM

    Awesome conference scheduled for later this year on a hot subject:

    https://www.academia.edu/13203185/_Jewish-Christianity_and_Islamic_origins_The_transformation_of_a_peripheral_religious_movement

    I feel pretty strongly that the alleged "Jewish Christian" influences are secondary, and do not reflect a historical Jewish Christian movement.  But I'm very interested in these new articles.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #373 - June 25, 2015, 09:52 PM

    Emrah El-Badawi - The ancient origins of Qur’anic laws

    http://marginalia.lareviewofbooks.org/the-ancient-origins-of-quranic-laws-by-emran-el-badawi/
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #374 - June 26, 2015, 07:33 PM

    wanted to cancel this post  Cry
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #375 - June 26, 2015, 07:36 PM


    The artificial and polemical nature of the mush’rikūn, which are a derivative of the argument's form and content (i.e. they are defined by their opposition to the confessional point being asserted, not by an empirical description of an actual group of people), is obvious.  It is actually kind of sad to see the depth of naivety that still permeates the academic field in analyzing Qur'anic polemic; instead of analyzing it like you would any other similar polemic, you get regaled with tales of Mystical Arabia and the Meccan mush’rikūn.  Hopefully books like Azaiez's new contribution will help remove such critical failure.



    Can you be more precise (im not native anglophone)  thnkyu
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #376 - July 18, 2015, 12:07 AM

    Klingschor - The new history of early Islam

    http://research-islam.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/the-new-history-of-early-islam.html
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #377 - July 18, 2015, 05:33 AM



    So would this argument lend additional credence to the idea that the Quran originated in the Levant?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #378 - July 18, 2015, 09:28 AM


     


    http://www.degruyter.com/view/product/455371

    Quote
    Aims and Scope

    This book deals with a prominent literary element of the Koran, the “counter-discourse”, the citations of opposing voices. This feature of the Koranic text has been neglected in earlier scholarship although it is connected to the larger question of the religious milieu in which the Koran emerged. Accordingly, the topic is of considerable importance to our understanding of Islamic origins.


    that book appears to have some ground breaking historical analysis on origins of Quran consequently origins of Islam..it is useful to put all the text of Dr. Mehdi Azaiez's  abstract article on his book..
    Quote
    Qur’anic Counter-Discourse  Posted on June 15, 2015  by Mehdi Azaiez*


    My new book, Le contre-discours coranique (Berlin: DeGruyter, 2015), focuses on a distinctive literary form in the Qur’an: “counter-discourse”—that is, the discourse of the Qur’an’s opponents as represented in the qur’anic text itself. Qur’anic counter-discourse appears in the form of direct reported speech, easily identifiable by the formula “they say.” The first example in the canonical text appears in Q Baqarah 2:8:

    وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَنْ يَقُولُ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَبِالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَمَا هُمْ بِمُؤْمِنِينَ

    wa-min al-nās man yaqūlu āmannā bi’llāh wa-bi’l-yawm al-ākhir wa-mā hum bi-mu’minīn

    Among the people are those who say, “We believe in God and the Last Day,” but they do not believe.

    Quote
    We can easily recognize the statement marked above in bold as the words of an (anonymous) opponent. My book identifies such statements throughout the qur’anic text, and examines them from historical, linguistic, and rhetorical perspectives.[/quote]

    Historically, counter-discourse implies the existence of vocal opponents to the Qur’an. What, then, does such discourse reveal about these opponents’ identities and beliefs, and about the historical context in which they reportedly spoke? Linguistically, counter-discourse in the Qur’an consists of distinctive narrative and dialogical forms. What forms are used in the qur’anic text to record opponents’ sayings, and what forms are used to refute them? Rhetorically, counter-discourse seems to pose interesting ontological and argumentative paradoxes. How does a text considered by most Muslims to be divine speech incorporate the speech of those who are not divine, and who deny the Qur’an’s message? How does the qur’anic text give voice to opposition without legitimating it?

    My book aims to address these questions in three stages. The first identifies and defines the subject (Chapters I-III), the second determines and quantifies a corpus of evidence (Chapters IV-V), and the third analyzes this corpus by querying its themes, forms, and evolution (Chapters VI-IX). This last stage includes both synchronic and diachronic approaches. I first undertake an intratextual reading of the Qur’an. I describe the discursive operations through which the Qur’an represents multiple voices (e.g. God, believers, disbelievers) and constructs counter-discourse and apologetic discourse. Indeed, the speech of opponents is never reported without reply, and we repeatedly encounter the emblematic formula of “they say . . . say . . .” (yaqūlūna . . . fa-qul . . .). This dialogue between counter-discourse and reply creates what can be called an argumentative question (a recent linguistic notion in the theory of argumentation). With this in mind, I analyze reported oppositional speech in terms of the replies it entails, paying special attention to how one counter-discourse can receive multiple different qur’anic replies.

    Quote
    I then undertake an intertextual reading, querying the possible usage of counter-discourse in late antique texts, namely biblical and parabiblical literatures such as Christian apocrypha and the Talmud. This considerable task is only introduced in my book. Comparative analysis of some eschatological qur’anic and talmudic counter-discourses has already yielded encouraging results, as I have shown in “Les contre-discours eschatologiques dans le Coran et le traité du Sanhédrin” (in Déroche et al., eds., Les origines du Coran: Le Coran des origines [Paris: Académie des Inscriptions et Belles-Lettres, 2015], 111-128).


    Throughout Le contre-discours coranique, I propose a formal typology of qur’anic counter-discourse, assess its distribution and importance, and outline its formal and discursive features (e.g., types of refutation, types of opponent, and internal evolution). Diagrams, graphs, and tables accompany the study in order to enhance our appreciation of this discursive corpus.

    Let me now highlight some of my findings. In quantitative terms, 588 verses contain some type of counter-discourse. There are three types: past (e.g., of Pharaoh or the people of Noah), present (e.g., against the Qur’an or Muhammad), and future (e.g., of the damned in hell). Respectively, they comprise 38%, 46%, and 16% of all qur’anic counter-discourses. The majority of “present” counter-discourses represent the important mise en scene of adversaries situated in the time of the qur’anic revelations. These adversaries argue against God (29%), against Muhammad (27%), against the Qur’an (20%), against final judgment (19%), and against the community of believers (6%). On the other hand, qur’anic replies to their arguments aim to strengthen the Qur’an’s author (the qur’anic God), its primary addressee and enunciator (Muhammad), its actual enunciation (the Qur’an as a process of divine revelation), its message (especially one of the most recurrent themes: eschatology), and its secondary addressees (the first community of believers). The presentation of counter-discourses and their replies is done with strategic constraints that aim at denigrating the qur’anic opponents. These strategies are principally isolation and focus. With the help of examples from Sūrat al Furqān and Sūrat al-Wāqiʿah analyzed in Chapter VIII of my book, I demonstrate how the counter-discourses are neutralized by the fact that they are in the minority, decentralized, and surrounded by statements that refute them.

    An important aim of Le contre-discours coranique is to address the question of how analysis of counter-discourse can help us better understand the socio-historical context of the emergence of the Qur’an. To say that the text of the Qur’an reflects a context of sectarian polemics is not new. What my book offers, however, is a fresh analysis of present counter-discourses that strongly supports recent suggestions—namely by Crone, Hawting, and Reynolds—to enroll qur’anic polemics in the religious controversies of Late Antiquity.

    It is likely that the historical portraits of Muhammad’s opponents in the traditional Islamic sources (especially the sīrah literature) are problematic. To put it more precisely, the opponents of the Qur’an were probably not pagans. Their objections, as reported in qur’anic counter-discourse, are mostly monotheistic in character. Statements that imply that they may have been pagan are very few (see my Chapter VII), and appear to be based on a discursive strategy of exaggeration that is typical of polemical language. Moreover, there are striking similarities of themes and formulations in present counter-discourses between the Qur’an and parabiblical texts. Especially in eschatological counter-discourses, one can easily perceive how the text of the Qur’an reflects a theological agenda that is distinct and yet nonetheless enrolled in a continuum with Talmudic literary forms, themes, arguments, and counter-arguments. On the whole, qur’anic counter-discourse seem more readily explainable in light of late antique Christian-Jewish polemics rather than solely through the lens of later Muslim exegesis.

    *Mehdi Azaiez is Assistant Professor of Islamic Studies at KU Leuven (Belgium).  © International Qur’anic Studies Association, 2015. All rights reserved.



    Now that book costs some 100 AMRIKHANO dollars..

    Quote
    eBook (PDF)
    ISBN 978-3-11-041910-8
    RRP
    € [D] 109.95 / US$ 154.00 / GBP 82.99*

    eBook (EPUB)
    ISBN 978-3-11-041916-0
    RRP
    € [D] 109.95 / US$ 154.00 / GBP 82.99*

    Hardcover
    ISBN 978-3-11-041999-3
    RRP
    € [D] 109.95 / US$ 154.00 / GBP 82.99*

    Print/eBook
    ISBN 978-3-11-041911-5
    RRP
    € [D] 169.95 / US$ 238.00 / GBP 127.98*


    how the hell any one going to buy and read it?? Anyways  I hope all these Islamic centers of East and west makes that book available freely in their libraries..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #379 - July 18, 2015, 09:35 AM

     
    Prof. Dr. Mehdi Azaiez

    Quote
    Mehdi Azaiez (Paris, 1974) is Assistant Professor of Islamic Theology at the Faculty of Theology and Religious Studies, KU Leuven, and member of the Research Unit Biblical Studies. His research focuses on Quranic Studies and Early Islam. In the past (2012-2013), he was instructor on Islamic Studies and co-director of the international project « Qur’ân Seminar » at the University of Notre Dame (Indiana, USA).

    Since 2013, he is a member of the Publications and Research commitee of the International Qur’anic Studies Association (IQSA). Since 2013, he is also a scientific member of the Bulletin Critique des Annales Islamologiques (BCAI). Since 2012, he is an associate researcher at the Institute de Recherches et d’Etudes sur le Monde Musulman (IREMAM).

    He also manages a website dedicated to quranic studies: Qur’ân and Early Islam.


    I am pretty sure religious magic spells of fools who preach/teach  nonsense as religious discourses in Mosques., zaytuna Islamic Centers.,  schools such as   This  or from Islamic internet trolls and fools like HAMZA TORTILLAS will be broken  by the works from people like Dr. Mehdi Azaiez   and internet..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #380 - July 18, 2015, 09:52 AM

    Mehdi Azaiez - Reading the Qur’ân today

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu2XLUfhqiY

    if that lecture was given by Mehdi Azaiez  in any so called Islamic nations  he would be in Jail..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #381 - July 18, 2015, 10:42 AM

    well  zeca with his links making me to  read tons of stuff and watch all these tubes..

    Quote


    and more  there is no doubt that these academicians are  living far away from real Islamic world..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #382 - July 18, 2015, 02:24 PM

    An argument for Islamic origins in Petra - any thoughts on the plausibility of this?

    Jeremy Smyth - The Mecca Question
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #383 - July 18, 2015, 02:27 PM


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fSPETvcbROY
  • ur
     Reply #384 - July 19, 2015, 08:27 PM

    An argument for Islamic origins in Petra - any thoughts on the plausibility of ... Jeremy Smyth - The Mecca Question?

    Mr Smyth Dan Gibson emailed me offering me a free pdf if I reviewed his (different) book "Qur'anic Geography" afterward. I promised I'd buy the book (a personal ethic of mine; some reviewers can read free stuff and do it fairly, I'm not sure I can) and then decide if I wanted to review it. So I bought it and received it and ... couldn't get through it. So it joined those other books I bought and couldn't figure out, including John Wansbrough's books, and "Muhammad Is Not the Father of Any Of Your Men".

    As for the subject, I don't know about Islamic origins in what's now the Kingdom of Jordan, but I have been - recently - convinced of the Arabic language's origins there. And then there are those mosque qiblas oriented to south Jordan. So it's looking more and more like Smyth was on to something. I'll probably have to pick it up again.

    UPDATE 7/24/2015, well, I'm an idiot. The book I was supposed to review and didn't - which I'm now staring at - wasn't Smyth, "The Mecca Question"; it was Gibson's book, "Qur'anic Geography". Maybe I should read Smyth's book too; I don't know. But obviously since I don't even have Smyth's book I cannot say anything about it.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #385 - July 19, 2015, 08:39 PM

    On the whole, qur’anic counter-discourse seem more readily explainable in light of late antique Christian-Jewish polemics rather than solely through the lens of later Muslim exegesis.

    Basically, what Gabriel Said Reynolds has been saying for the last decade. And maybe Wansbrough before that (I think).
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #386 - July 19, 2015, 10:02 PM

    Thanks Zimriel
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #387 - July 20, 2015, 07:33 PM

    Interview with Emran El-Badawi: The Qur’an and the Aramaic Gospel Traditions

    http://newbooksinislamicstudies.com/2015/07/17/emran-el-badawi-the-quran-and-the-aramaic-gospel-traditions-routledge-2015/
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #388 - July 22, 2015, 12:03 AM



    Obituary for Patricia Crone

    http://www.iandavidmorris.com/sacrosanct-texts-are-never-to-be-trusted/
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #389 - July 22, 2015, 04:26 AM

    Recommend that the obituary should get its own thread
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