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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #570 - October 19, 2015, 08:58 PM

    Hmm, Protestantism is also an Islamic import?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #571 - October 27, 2015, 09:29 PM

    Fahad Mutlaq Al-Otaibi on "Nabataean" as an ethnic group. (PDF)

    Otaibi notes that part of Nabataean identity was to abstain from wine. So even under the Romans, some Arabs were abstaining - and some weren't, because one particular Nabataean made sure to point this out in Palmyra, another Arab nation wherein he was a foreigner. Q. 47 promises wine in the next world, and the locals recorded drunkenness among the first conquerors.

    Was the ban introduced by ex-Nabataeans, after the conquest? Perhaps it was useful to distinguish proto-Muslim prayer from Christian and Jewish religious observance...?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #572 - November 02, 2015, 12:28 AM

    Ian David Morris on Patricia Crone’s most recent (posthumous) article, ‘Jewish Christianity and the Qurʾān (Part One)’

    https://mobile.twitter.com/iandavidmorris/status/660807162407571456
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #573 - November 02, 2015, 08:10 PM

    Curious to see the full Crone article, but I think she's just fundamentally wrong on this and that Dye and Reynolds are pushing the much superior angle here.  To the extent there is "Jewish Christian" influence on the Qur'an, IMO it's as an innovative anachronism.  About as authentically "Jewish Christian" as Mormonism is an authentic offshoot of ancient Jewish Christianity.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #574 - November 03, 2015, 11:25 AM

    Was there a link to the Crone articles mentioned above?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #575 - November 03, 2015, 12:10 PM

    ^here, if you have access to jstor which I don't: http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/682212?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #576 - November 06, 2015, 11:34 PM

    But this 'major composition,' as I've called it, was itself already assembled from preexisting Qur'anic materials, some of them going back long before Mohammed.


    Agree. 85/90% of the Quran is before Mohammed : Occam razor then say : there was no Mohammed : end of game.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #577 - November 11, 2015, 05:42 PM

    Great short article by Greg Fisher on secular Arab leaders as 'holy men.'  Fisher is becoming indispensable on the transition between 6th century Arab Christianity and 7th century Islam ... he keeps correcting numerous mistakes in prior scholarship and pointing out fascinating connections.

    http://www.mizanproject.org/the-secular-arab-holy-man-in-late-antiquity/

    "But what is increasingly apparent is the importance of the religious function of men such as al-Ḥārith and his son. They held no formal position in any ecclesiastical hierarchy, but nonetheless wielded immense authority amongst the Miaphysite clergy. They were, in fact, tribal leaders who resembled holy men, particularly in their ability to broker all kinds of solutions for the problems that plagued the Christians of rural Syria and Jordan. As ‘secular holy men’, they were avatars of another sort of Arab leader – one who combined political and religious authority, and who possessed the vision to bridge the divide between the competing communities of the late antique east."

    This accords well with how I see the emergence of Qur'anic discourse -- originating with Miaphysite ascetic discourse that opposed the ecclesiastical hierarchy imposed on Arabia by imperial fiat.  This discourse was later taken up to further the rising Arab political power, articulating a distinctively Arabic 'purified' version of Christian faith, devoid of Christian sacraments.  You can think of it as a confluence of powerful Arab political rulers and disgruntled ascetic Miaphysite monks, both of whom opposed the 'corrupt' foreign ecclesiastical hierarchy.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #578 - November 11, 2015, 06:27 PM

    That Greg Fisher article is one of a collection on 'Judaism and Christianity at the origins of Islam', including articles by Emran El-Badawi and Michael Pregill. I've still got to read them, so no opinions as yet.

    http://www.mizanproject.org/forum-conflict-and-convergence-in-late-antiquity/
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #579 - November 11, 2015, 07:26 PM

    Michael Pregill's introduction
    Quote
    It is something of an understatement to say that the study of the Qur’an and Islamic origins is currently in a state of extreme ferment. Over the last decade, we have seen a significant resurgence of interest in exploring Islamic origins and the background to the Qur’an by examining the history, politics, culture, and religion of the wider world of Late Antiquity in which the Qur’an was revealed and the Muslim umma emerged.

    In many ways, the relationship of the Qur’an and the early Islamic community to late antique Judaism and Christianity is absolutely central to the problems that lie at the heart of this research. It is increasingly clear that the relationships between the Qur’an and formative Islam on the one hand and the other religious traditions of the pre-Islamic and early Islamic era on the other must be framed as a tripartite conversation between Jews, Christians, and the community of believers (muʾminūn) who eventually came to call themselves Muslims. Scholars now widely recognize the numerous continuities between the religion, culture, politics, and society of Late Antiquity and that of early Islam.

    Islam’s emergence in Late Antiquity was a distinct result of both imperial conflict and intercommunal rivalry; in this arena of conflict and convergence, early Muslims were often quite close to, and implicated in, the debates, disputes, and struggles of their age. The ideas, idioms, ideals, and aspirations of the first Muslims were similar to those of their Jewish and Christian neighbors, although ironically, each religious community used comparable – or identical – language, concepts, and symbols to assert its uniqueness and difference as sole claimant to the status of God’s chosen people.

    The short essays in this forum are dedicated to reflection upon the contemporary challenges and prospects for discovery and innovation in the study of the Qur’an and early Islam, particularly as they stand at a nexus of convergence with Judaism, Christianity, and other traditions. The twelve scholars who have contributed essays to the forum will examine what they see to be the most significant aspects of current research into the continuities between Late Antiquity and formative Islam from a variety of perspectives and locate their own work in the context of the larger scholarly landscape. Some of our contributors speak in broad terms about the nature of interdisciplinary inquiry and collaboration between scholars in different fields. Others focus in very concrete ways on the particular results of comparative investigations and methodological creativity.

    The first six posts in this collaborative forum, as well as an introductory essay, are presented below. The second half of this forum will appear here on mizanproject.org in a few weeks.

    http://www.mizanproject.org/forum-conflict-and-convergence-in-late-antiquity/
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #580 - November 11, 2015, 11:32 PM

    This sounds useful as well
    Also, bibliography will be compiled into a PDF for download and included with the second half of the forum to appear next month

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #581 - November 16, 2015, 05:55 PM

    This is a great new presentation on the Christianity of South Arabia and how it may relate to the Qur'an and Islam.

    https://www.academia.edu/18376456/South_Arabian_Christianity_A_Crossroads_of_Late_Antique_Cultures

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #582 - November 17, 2015, 01:41 AM

    Awesome new article from Al-Jallad!

    https://www.academia.edu/18470301/Al-Jallad._The_earliest_stages_of_Arabic_and_its_linguistic_classification_Routledge_Handbook_of_Arabic_Linguistics_forthcoming_

    Quote on an interesting aspect of Qur'anic orthography:

    "The alif-maqṣūrah is a term for when word-final y’s in the unpointed Arabic script should be pronounced as /ā/ in Classical Arabic. In Old Arabic, this sequence is always kept distinct from etymological /ā/. Spellings in Greek suggest that the alif-maqṣūrah was pronounced as perhaps [ai] or [e]. Safaitic and Hismaic attest forms such as fty  (= Classical Arabic fatan ‘youth’) and mny (= Classical Arabic manan ‘fate’), where the final y can only signal a final diphthong or triphthong and not a long vowel (for more, see Al-Jallad 2015a, §5.1). Likewise, triphthongs seem to have obtained in all positions."

    Interesting!  So the alif-maqsurah was *not* just another way of writing the long 'a,' but rather represents a distinct vowel pronunciation that was lost in later Arabic.  This means that either (a) Islamic tradition forgot the actual original pronunciation of the old Qur'anic Arabic and converted it into the long 'a' reading (most likely); or (b) that Qur'anic Arabic was written using archaic spellings that did not reflect how it was recited, just as English words are often spelled with letters that reflect ancient English pronunciations that are no longer used (seems much less likely, since it presupposes a very long and conservative scribal tradition of writing Arabic, but could be).  I guess you might be able to decide this by closely analyzing Qur'anic rhyme schemes.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #583 - November 17, 2015, 06:45 AM

    https://www.academia.edu/18244622/Divine_Kingdom_in_Syriac_Matthew_and_the_Qur%C4%81n

    i think it echos zaotar thesis
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #584 - November 18, 2015, 07:49 PM

    Did Islam actually need to be a religion when it started?  Or might it be another imperial project, like Gheghis Khan, coming from the desert, whose leaders has read a translation of Sun Tzu or something similar, and realised a powerful god and a holy book are excellent weapons of war?

    Are the wrong experts studying Islam?  It shouldnt' be religious experts but warfare experts?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #585 - November 22, 2015, 04:25 PM

    The Journal of Middle East Medievalists has moved online: http://islamichistorycommons.org/mem/al-usur-al-wusta/current-issue/

    The current issue includes a tribute to Patricia Crone: http://islamichistorycommons.org/mem/wp-content/uploads/sites/55/2015/11/UW-23-Crone.pdf

    As well as these recollections by Patricia Crone herself: http://islamichistorycommons.org/mem/wp-content/uploads/sites/55/2015/11/UW-23-MEM-Award-Crone.pdf
    Quote
    ....
    One summer towards the end of my time at school, one of my sisters and I went to the theatre festival at Avignon, and there for the first time in my life, I met a live Muslim, a Moroccan. I had decided to study the Muslim world without ever knowingly having set eyes on an Arab or Persian or heard Arabic or Persian spoken. There weren’t any of them in Denmark back then: it was Gilgamesh who had seduced me. I discovered him in my teens and wanted to be an ancient Near Eastern archaeologist, but for a variety of reasons I became an Islamicist instead. Anyway, I met this Moroccan in Avignon, and he told me the story of the Battle of Siffin: the Syrians were losing and responded by hoisting Qurans on their lances, the battle stopped, and so Ali lost. It never occurred to me to believe it; I smiled politely and thought to myself, “when I get to university I’ll hear a different story.” I got to Copenhagen University, but no Islamic history was taught there, only Semitic philology, which I did not want to do, and history, meaning European history, which I did do and enjoyed, but which was not where I wanted to stay. Eventually I got myself to England, and there I was accepted by SOAS and heard Professor Lewis lecture on early Islamic history, including the Battle of Siffin. He told the story exactly as my Moroccan friend had told it. I could not believe it. It struck me as obvious that the narrative was fiction, and besides, everyone knows that battle accounts are most unlikely to be reliable, least of all when they are told by the loser. I thought about it again many years later, in 2003, when one of Saddam Hussain’s generals, Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf, also known as comical (not chemical) Ali, persistently asserted that the Iraqis had defeated the Americans and put them to flight, so that there weren’t any American troops in Iraq any more. At the very least one would have expected Lewis to say something about the problematic nature of battle narratives, and was this really true? But no: it was a truth universally acknowledged that, during the Battle of Siffin, the Syrians hoisted Qurans on their lances and thereby stopped the battle, depriving the Iraqis of their victory.

    I think this is the biggest academic shock I’ve ever suffered, but I didn’t say anything. I never did, I was too shy. And then I encountered John Wansbrough. He read Arabic texts with us undergraduates, clearly thinking we were a hopeless lot, but he was the first person I met at SOAS who doubted the Siffin story. As it turned out, he doubted just about everything in the tradition. I was fascinated by him. I wanted to know how he thought we should go about writing about early Islamic history, so I continued reading texts with him as a graduate, but I never got an answer. Once, when we were reading Tabari’s account of Ibn al-Ashʿath’s revolt in the mid-Umayyad period, Wansbrough asked: “what year are we in?” I thought he simply meant “what year has Tabari put this in?,” but when I replied year 82,” or whatever, he acidly retorted, “I see you have the confidence of your supervisor,” meaning Bernard Lewis, my supervisor, whom he deeply disliked. I think his question was meant to be understood as, “Is all this really something that happened in year 82 (or whenever) or is it stereotyped battle scenes interspersed with poetry that could be put in any heroic account in need of amplification?” I don’t know, for he did not explain. He never did. He was an imam samit

    From all this you can see two things. First, it was not exposure to Wansbrough that made me a sceptic or radical or whatever else they like to call me. I was a sceptic already in Avignon, years before I came to England, without being aware of it. In my own understanding I was just thinking commonsense. And secondly, Islamic history was not studied at an advanced level. I don’t know how the Battle of Siffin is taught these days, but I cannot imagine it is done with the credulity of those days and, at least in England, Lewis must take part of the credit for this, for he was very keen for Islamicists to become historians.
    ....

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #586 - November 22, 2015, 05:59 PM

    Also from the Journal of Middle East Medievalists - Fred Donner's critical review of Robert Hoyland's In God’s Path: The Arab Conquests and the Creation of an Islamic Empire

    http://islamichistorycommons.org/mem/wp-content/uploads/sites/55/2015/11/UW-23-Donner.pdf
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #587 - November 22, 2015, 06:21 PM

    Another critical review - Peter Webb on Aziz al-Azmeh's The Emergence of Islam in Late Antiquity: Allāh and His People

    http://islamichistorycommons.org/mem/wp-content/uploads/sites/55/2015/11/UW-23-Webb.pdf
    Quote
    A related, and also fundamental issue concerns al-Azmeh’s treatment of the Arab people. Al-Azmeh’s model needs ‘Arabs’ as the protagonists for its story – the possessors of a definitive range of pre-Islamic beliefs that constituted the ‘Arab religion’, and the actors who transformed Islam into its current form. In aligning “Allāh and His people” with “Arabs”, the analysis ignores Bashear’s The Arabs and Others with its observations from hadith and exegesis that Islam acquired its supposed ‘signature’ Arab identity only during the later first/ seventh and second/eighth centuries. The problems with viewing Islam as an ‘Arab national movement’ recently resurfaced in Donner (Muhammad and the Believers) and Millar (Religion, Language and Community in the Roman Near East), but are not aired in al-Azmeh’s Arab narrative.

    Furthermore, al-Azmeh’s underlying assumption that pre-Islamic pan-Arabian populations were ethnically unified under the term ‘Arab’, projects Arab identity into an ancient past which verges on primordialist racial archetype, and this notion is critically challenged by the fact that pre-Islamic Arabians did not seem to call themselves ‘Arabs’, nor did their neighbours describe them as such....

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #588 - November 24, 2015, 04:53 PM

    Quote
    At the very least one would have expected Lewis to say something about the problematic nature of battle narratives, and was this really true? But no: it was a truth universally acknowledged that, during the Battle of Siffin, the Syrians hoisted Qurans on their lances and thereby stopped the battle, depriving the Iraqis of their victory.


    Quote
    pre-Islamic Arabians did not seem to call themselves ‘Arabs’, nor did their neighbours describe them as such....


    Is anything from this time actually established?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #589 - November 24, 2015, 09:15 PM

    There must have been some people who called them "arabs" or else the Romans wouldn't have named a province "Arabia"... not to mention that the Assyrians knew a Gingibu / Gindibu the Arab ('Gindibu' is more usual). Jan Retso mentions several accounts in his "The Arabs in Antiquity". Classical authors tend to note their cultural traits, which were called religious traits when the Christians took over the classical mantle.

    It is true that the various peoples in Arabia had no national-consciousness before Islam. A Himyari was a Himyari, and a Lakhmi was a Lakhmi. And the pre-islamic authors don't ever say "all the Arabs are like such-and-such" AFAIK. They would have viewed that as absurd, like saying all the Germans are like such-and-such.

    There used to be an ethnography of the Arabians, to match what Tacitus did for the Germannians: Uranius's Arabica. It seems not to have survived into the Heracleid Dynasty of the 600s, or else the Greeks would certainly have wanted to copy it.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #590 - November 24, 2015, 10:43 PM

    There's comparable discussion about the development of ethnic identities in Europe after the fall of the western empire - Franks, Anglo-Saxons and so on. Chris Wickham and Guy Halsall have written about this and I should really look it up at some point. I think it may be an influence on the discussion about the development of an Arab identity.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #591 - November 26, 2015, 08:03 PM

    Nicolai Sinai - When did the consonantal skeleton of the Quran reach closure?

    https://www.academia.edu/7372306/_When_did_the_consonantal_skeleton_of_the_Quran_reach_closure_Bulletin_of_the_School_of_Oriental_and_African_Studies_77_2014_273_292_509_521

    Nicolai Sinai - Religious poetry from the Quranic milieu: Umayya b. Abī l-Ṣalt on the fate of the Thamūd

    https://www.academia.edu/6692317/_Religious_Poetry_from_the_Quranic_Milieu_Umayya_b._Abī_l-Ṣalt_on_the_Fate_of_the_Thamūd_Bulletin_of_the_School_of_Oriental_and_African_Studies_74_2011_397_416

    Nicolai Sinai - An interpretation of Sūrat al-Najm (Q. 53)

    https://www.academia.edu/6694223/_An_Interpretation_of_Sūrat_al-Najm_Q._53_Journal_of_Quranic_Studies_13_2_2011_pp._1_28
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #592 - November 27, 2015, 08:39 PM

    Ian David Morris - Reading Christian Robin’s article, ‘Les Signes de la Prophétie en Arabie’, about the Arabian prophets of Muhammad’s time.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/iandavidmorris/status/670288999987171328

    Edit: Storify version: https://storify.com/friarwill/ian-morris-reads
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #593 - November 28, 2015, 11:09 PM

    Lecture by Gerald Hawting (podcast) - Were there prophets in the Jahiliyya?

    http://www.international.ucla.edu/cnes/article/135579
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #594 - November 28, 2015, 11:12 PM

    Lecture by Patricia Crone (podcast) - The Pagan Arabs as Godfearers

    http://www.international.ucla.edu/cnes/podcast/135578
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #595 - November 28, 2015, 11:20 PM

    Lecture by Patricia Crone (podcast) - The Pagan Arabs as Godfearers

    http://www.international.ucla.edu/cnes/podcast/135578

     it is good read this pdf file along with that podcast

    The Religion of the Qurʾānic Pagans: God and the Lesser Deities*_Patricia Crone

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #596 - November 29, 2015, 04:14 PM

    ^Good point by Yeez.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #597 - November 29, 2015, 04:55 PM

    How important is the 1920's Cairo Koran? Was Islam reinvented by it?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #598 - November 29, 2015, 05:03 PM

    Comments about high gods immediately raise the issues of Gnosticism.

    One of the crusades was against Gnostics in langue doc. Were the other crusades also against Gnostics?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #599 - November 30, 2015, 12:10 PM

    There must have been some people who called them "arabs" or else the Romans wouldn't have named a province "Arabia"... not to mention that the Assyrians knew a Gingibu / Gindibu the Arab ('Gindibu' is more usual). Jan Retso mentions several accounts in his "The Arabs in Antiquity". Classical authors tend to note their cultural traits, which were called religious traits when the Christians took over the classical mantle.

    It is true that the various peoples in Arabia had no national-consciousness before Islam. A Himyari was a Himyari, and a Lakhmi was a Lakhmi. And the pre-islamic authors don't ever say "all the Arabs are like such-and-such" AFAIK. They would have viewed that as absurd, like saying all the Germans are like such-and-such.

    There used to be an ethnography of the Arabians, to match what Tacitus did for the Germannians: Uranius's Arabica. It seems not to have survived into the Heracleid Dynasty of the 600s, or else the Greeks would certainly have wanted to copy it.

    This article might be relevant:

    Jan Retsö - The Earliest Arabs

    https://www.academia.edu/8556656/The_Earliest_Arabs

    Other articles by Jan Retsö

    https://gu-se.academia.edu/JanRetsö


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