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Theme Changer

 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3750 - September 05, 2018, 09:36 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 05, 2018, 09:16 PM
    Shaddel, Al-Jallad, Putten, and a host of other scholars, have responded to the objections raised against the authenticity of the Zuhayr inscription. Please refer back to them for further information.


    As Kerr has not yet published something... (and he will do it in German... as he usually does since he is in Germany)
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3751 - September 05, 2018, 09:49 PM
    He will publish in English as well.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3752 - September 05, 2018, 09:52 PM
    Kerr has given some presentations on the matter and a few of his colleagues have shared information about his work.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3753 - September 05, 2018, 10:05 PM
    Then it seems it will be his first publication in English regarding Islam since he was fired from his Canadian University (following his letter to the Education Minister, regarding (?) the ruined education system of his country -it seems that it was the main topic..)
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3754 - September 05, 2018, 10:21 PM
    He does have other publications in English.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3755 - September 05, 2018, 10:41 PM
    Quote
    Saudis et al.  presents  A Zem-Zem Production,  Legend Films,  Fake Pictures,  Khalid. b. Walid Movies : "Saving Private Islam" starring, May Shaddel, (as Ali)
    and
    S. Anthony (as the voice of the Prophet) 
    Ahmad al Jallad (as Umar)
    The Ivy League group -Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, the University of Pennsylvania, Princeton University,  Yale University- (as the Ansar)
    and
    Robert Kerr (Abu Sufyan), 
    Ibn Warraq (as Abu Lahab)
    Inarah group (as the Quraysh)
    Robert Spencer (as Heraclius)
    Herbert Berg (as Khosrau II)
    Written by (Gregor Schoeler, Andreas Gorke)
    Directed by John Milius 
     Cheesy


    Bruh... ha ha ha. Your are killing me with this. But who are you in this piece? Shaytan?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3756 - September 05, 2018, 10:44 PM
    A Zemzem production. Filmed in Petra.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3757 - September 05, 2018, 10:52 PM
    Quote from: mundi on September 05, 2018, 06:03 PM
    Marc: Shaddel denying the diacriticals in a very polite way:https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/.../1887/.../AEN_4.3%20final.pdf
    I know Kerr was first to denounce them and did that in a much less subtle way  grin12


    Thanks but the link doesn't work ; is it this paper ? https://www.academia.edu/35342533/Traces_of_the_hamza_in_the_Early_Arabic_Script_The_Inscriptions_of_Zuhayr_Qays_the_Scribe_and_Yaz%C4%ABd_the_King_Arabian_Epigraphic_Notes_4_2018_pp._35-52_





  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3758 - September 05, 2018, 10:54 PM
    Quote
    is it this paper ?


    Yes.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3759 - September 05, 2018, 10:55 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 05, 2018, 06:14 PM
    Marc S

    Kerr, at lest to my knowledge, has highlighted four points that, according to him, raises some questions about the inscription, at least a part of it. The four points are:


    Thanks

    Quote
    But as I noted, the main argument is that there arw photographs from the 70s without the main inscription. To be fair, I have an explanation for the photographs.



    I don't understand. I thought the inscription was found in 1999 ; how can it be that there are pictures from the 70's ? Something doesn't sound right here.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3760 - September 05, 2018, 10:58 PM
    Not sure when its found, but the whole point is that there are older photographs of it without the main inscription.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3761 - September 05, 2018, 10:58 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 05, 2018, 10:41 PM
    Bruh... ha ha ha. Your are killing me with this. But who are you in this piece? Shaytan?

    Hahaha! What do you think? Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3762 - September 05, 2018, 10:59 PM
    Quote from: Marc S on September 05, 2018, 10:55 PM
    Thanks


    I don't understand. I thought the inscription was found in 1999 ; how can it be that there are pictures from the 70's ? Something doesn't sound right here.


    Lol...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3763 - September 05, 2018, 11:04 PM
    But as I also said - and this to be fair - those who are familiar with the inscription have provided an explanation for the photographs.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3764 - September 05, 2018, 11:10 PM
    Quote
    But as I also said - and this to be fair - those who are familiar with the inscription have provided an explanation for the photographs.


    What are the explanations ?

    And I checked the Hoyland article about it and it clearly states that this inscription was found in 1999. You cannot have pictures from the 70's , maybe a confusion with another inscription ?

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3765 - September 05, 2018, 11:11 PM
    Quote from: Altara on September 05, 2018, 10:58 PM
    Hahaha! What do you think? Wink


    You are the Mahdi Altara  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3766 - September 05, 2018, 11:14 PM
    Quote
    You are the Mahdi Altara


    More like the leader of the Jews in Khaybar, ha ha ha.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3767 - September 05, 2018, 11:17 PM
    Then, as I said, there are photos dating from the 70s without the main inscription. Here is an explanation of this strange phenomenon:

    Those doubting the authenticity of the inscription simply got the chronology of the pictures wrong, and that the issue of chronology was a red herring anyway. Furthermore, the photographs were the bottom inscription is sometimes absent were photo shopped. This was even brought to Lamsiah's attention concerning the pictures he had received from Kerr.

    The photograph released by UNESCO and islamic-awareness.org was taken by Laïla Nehmé. The lower text present in the original photograph was digitally removed by UNESCO for the sake of clarification.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3768 - September 05, 2018, 11:20 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 05, 2018, 10:58 PM
    Not sure when its found, but the whole point is that there are older photographs of it without the main inscription.


    "Saving Private Inscription"
    A Kaba Production,  and A Forgeries Films presentation with the participation of the Zem-Zem Company
    Staring : Sean Anthony (as the voice of the Prophet), etc.


  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3769 - September 05, 2018, 11:20 PM
    Quote from: Marc S on September 05, 2018, 11:11 PM
    You are the Mahdi Altara  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


    Yes I know  Cheesy
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3770 - September 05, 2018, 11:21 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 05, 2018, 11:14 PM
    More like the leader of the Jews in Khaybar, ha ha ha.


    Oh my God!  Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3771 - September 05, 2018, 11:22 PM
    Who would you say I am, Altara? Marc S is also welcome to answer. Other can answer as well.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3772 - September 05, 2018, 11:26 PM
    Going back to my explanation (not really my explanation, but my summary) of the photographs, there are some additional problems with the hypothesis put forth by Kerr and co that I am yet to provide, also relating to their claims about the photographs. 
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3773 - September 05, 2018, 11:27 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 05, 2018, 11:22 PM
    Who would you say I am, Altara? Marc S is also welcome to answer. Other can answer as well.


    A muhajirun!  Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3774 - September 05, 2018, 11:32 PM
    Ha ha ha. I love it! As the now classic phrase goes: “A Prophet Has Appeared, Coming with the Saracens”
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3775 - September 06, 2018, 12:43 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 05, 2018, 09:28 PM
    canaaniteshift  - You asked why this inscription is considered to be so important. Well, it supposedly justifies a hijazid locality for the origins of Islam. That is one thing. Another thing is that is attests the historicity of the second caliph Umar, since the date on the inscription is the same year Umar is said to have died. .


    OK for the synching of the historical figure of Omar, who is mentioned in outside sources, and the Islamic narrative regarding him, at least with the date. The hijazi locality doesn't seem to be as significant because by this time the Arabs had even reached Egypt. Although if it supports the narrative, then that gives further credence to the story as whole I suppose. What does this group think of the Othman inscription by Qays the scribe?

    Altara, nobody is trying to undermine Christian influence on early Islam by stating the Arabic script comes from the Nabataean, and I suppose it is important write it in full with you, the Nabataean Aramaic script. In fact, all early Arabic inscriptions are Christian - Jallad makes this point very clear. He states that the epigraphic evidence proves that Arabic script and language were considered appropriate ways of expressing Christian identity in pre-Islamic times and goes on that from the epigraphic record there is no evidence for paganism in the 6th century. It does not seem to be an effort to deny ARamaic or Christianity but to identify WHICH Aramaic and WHICH christianity.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3776 - September 06, 2018, 12:44 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on September 05, 2018, 11:14 PM
    More like the leader of the Jews in Khaybar, ha ha ha.


    Both are wrong: he is clearly Musaylimah  Cheesy
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3777 - September 06, 2018, 01:25 PM
    Quote from: canaaniteshift on September 06, 2018, 12:44 PM
    Both are wrong: he is clearly Musaylimah  Cheesy

    Hmm...  something is going on here  ...  canaaniteshift is laughing with that name ... Now I am forced to read all of his 33 posts..................... Boy he joined 3 year ago  and just 33 posts ............., So he indeed is lurking and scanning the forum ..

    So Helloooooooo  canaaniteshift., How are you doing sir??

      who is/was that guy?? who??who?? The Musaylimah?  You mean to say  Musaylimah al kathab?? and  you think Altara is a perfect character to represent Musaylimah??

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l7g74dwE1Y

    with best regards
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3778 - September 06, 2018, 01:52 PM
    Inscriptions:

    I think the position must be as it is for Christian archeology, the finder needs to prove it is authentic. Critical questions shouldn't be off limits but welcomed. All data must be available to check it out.

    We know from Christian/biblical finds that the assumption of innocence is often wrong. Why would it be different for Islamic finds?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #3779 - September 06, 2018, 01:56 PM
    Mundi: I agree! This is why the need for true international scientific teams working in Arabia.

    Yeezeevee: yes I am guilty of on and off lurking , depending on the time I have for studies. A terrible dutch representative of the anglo-saxon method : guilty as charged.
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