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Theme Changer

 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

 (Read 1502468 times)
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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5820 - March 07, 2019, 09:24 PM
    Mraizika:

    She referred to Gallez extensively. I think she even cooperated or rather extended research on his codicology article:

    http://rootsofislamtruehistory.com/subpages/Codicology_and_suspected_verses.htm

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5821 - March 07, 2019, 09:27 PM
    True, but Mraizika argues that the earliest manuscripts affirmed Jesus' divine sonship. Doesn't sound very much like something Gallez has espoused. But Lafontaine seems to have a positive attitude towards Mraizika's thesis. For him, Gallez's thesis does not preclude her ideas. And this comes from he who popularized Gallez's thesis. These matters are much more complicated than previously thought.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5822 - March 07, 2019, 09:29 PM
    Gallez:

    Why not? Gallez says that the Quranic text is a collection of leaflets put together. Jesus being the son leaves open whose son it is... and if she found that in a manuscript... Gallez must accept too?

    No, you are right, Jesus the son would be from a more Christian environment. But i don't think it would ruin Gallez theory.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5823 - March 07, 2019, 09:32 PM
    I edited my response.

    Yes, that is sort of what Lafontaine said, too. So, yeah, there does not seem to be an inherent contradiction between the two. Gallez's thesis is much more nuanced than I previously thought. Before, I used to reduce it to Nazarenes' writing the Quran, but this does not seem to be the case, nor is it an accurate representation of his actual thesis.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5824 - March 07, 2019, 09:48 PM
    Gallez:

    Gallez' thesis is 15 yrs old now. New things get discovered. Upto now, I don't think anyone has uncovered the complete "hidden history of Islam". Just bits here and there. No scholar can cling to his thesis forever. They need to be flexible.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5825 - March 07, 2019, 09:49 PM
    True. His thesis is still very fascinating and I think there is some merit to it. Have you read his two volumes, dear Mundi?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5826 - March 07, 2019, 09:56 PM
    Mahgraye:

    I wish I read it all... I confess, I just read Lafontaines resumé.   wacko

    Mraizika also mentioned David Powers "M is not the father of your men" bc it is also a scriptural modification. I think you know more about that topic?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5827 - March 07, 2019, 09:58 PM
    Oh! Then please read both volumes. Read that there are mines of insight therein. And perhaps the arguments are more robust and convincing than Lafontaine's resume. Even Lafontaine is currently writing new articles on the subject. Todd Lawson actually wrote a beautiful and positive review of both volumes.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5828 - March 07, 2019, 09:59 PM
    Mhag,

    Have you read Gallez?? You dont know French? How did you do it?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5829 - March 07, 2019, 10:00 PM
    I haven't read it either, haha.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5830 - March 07, 2019, 10:14 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on March 07, 2019, 09:15 PM
    Confused as to how Mraizika is part of Gallez's so-called "galaxy".


    Well she is a friend of Lafontaine, who will always backup Gallez's thesis, and, like Leila Qadr, JJ Walter, she refers to Gallez though she mostly focus on the Quranic manuscripts and , if my memory doesn't play me any trick , seems to refer to Yemen as where the Quran might have originated from.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5831 - March 07, 2019, 10:15 PM
    Lafontaine does post her a lot. Yemen? Interesting. Gallez would not agree with that suggestion. Thanks. Please see my and Mundi's discussion above.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5832 - March 07, 2019, 10:16 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on March 07, 2019, 09:32 PM
    I edited my response.

    Yes, that is sort of what Lafontaine said, too. So, yeah, there does not seem to be an inherent contradiction between the two. Gallez's thesis is much more nuanced than I previously thought. Before, I used to reduce it to Nazarenes' writing the Quran, but this does not seem to be the case, nor is it an accurate representation of his actual thesis.


     I'm not aware of a changing in Gallez thesis about "Judaeo  Nazarenes" writing the Quranic rasm...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5833 - March 07, 2019, 10:22 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on March 07, 2019, 10:00 PM
    I haven't read it either, haha.


    You can read his english site... He has just published an awful article (FR) in academia about the "Parthian Empire" which is totally nonsense...  The problem of Gallez is that he is not an historian yet he has written a new Early Islam history; he is the only one but he was not trained for that...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5834 - March 07, 2019, 10:25 PM
    Mraizika work in French (I have it...) is as awful as the last Gallez article... It's more or less Leila Qadr like...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5835 - March 07, 2019, 10:28 PM
    Dye was not impressed either. It looks very amateurish. More like a cocktail of different scholarly proposals.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5836 - March 07, 2019, 10:30 PM
    Quote
    I'm not aware of a changing in Gallez thesis about "Judaeo  Nazarenes" writing the Quranic rasm...


    He apparently does not think that Judeo-Nazarene's wrote the Quran nor that the Quran was written to justify Judeo-Nazarene ideology. Rather, the Quran is a collection of various folios.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5837 - March 07, 2019, 10:30 PM
    Mraizika:

    I thought her video was good. Of course, one should really check out what she says, is it true for other old manuscripts? For the newest finds? How does it correspond with C14...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5838 - March 07, 2019, 10:34 PM
    I have not the slightest idea. Her thesis sounds ad hoc and replete with assumptions. Reminds me of Luxenberg's idea of the original Quran.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5839 - March 07, 2019, 10:35 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on March 07, 2019, 10:28 PM
    Dye was not impressed either. It looks very amateurish. More like a cocktail of different scholarly proposals.


    Yes.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5840 - March 07, 2019, 10:36 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on March 07, 2019, 10:30 PM
    He apparently does not think that Judeo-Nazarene's wrote the Quran nor that the Quran was written to justify Judeo-Nazarene ideology. Rather, the Quran is a collection of various folios.


    You have a link for that?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5841 - March 07, 2019, 10:36 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on March 07, 2019, 10:28 PM
    Dye was not impressed either. It looks very amateurish. More like a cocktail of different scholarly proposals.


    Yes her book is like this, her video is much more structured.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5842 - March 07, 2019, 10:37 PM
    Now that you mentioned it, dear Altara, I think I now have a pretty good picture of what Leila Qadr's book looks like, both visually and content-wise.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5843 - March 07, 2019, 10:40 PM
     And the link for Gallez changing his thesis?  Wink
    Leila Qadr, Mraizika, Lafontaine, the Holy Trinity ...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5844 - March 07, 2019, 10:40 PM
    Quote from: Marc S on March 07, 2019, 10:36 PM
    Yes her book is like this, her video is much more structured.


    You have a link for the video?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5845 - March 07, 2019, 10:42 PM
    Quote from: Mahgraye on March 07, 2019, 10:34 PM
    I have not the slightest idea. Her thesis sounds ad hoc and replete with assumptions. Reminds me of Luxenberg's idea of the original Quran.


    Stop insulting Luxenberg Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5846 - March 07, 2019, 10:43 PM
    Quote from: Altara on March 07, 2019, 10:40 PM
    You have a link for the video?


    I posted it on page 194 here  Wink
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5847 - March 07, 2019, 10:44 PM
    I am always impressed by the quality and creativeness of the pseudonyms used by various scholars in this field: Christoph Luxenberg, Florence Mraizika, Leila Qadr, and Mavro di Mezzomorto. Any suggestions for a good pseudonym for me when I publish my own amateur booklet, haha.  
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5848 - March 07, 2019, 10:44 PM
    Quote
    And the link for Gallez changing his thesis?


    Please give me a moment. I will have to ask before I answer.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #5849 - March 07, 2019, 10:45 PM
    Quote
    Stop insulting Luxenberg  Wink


    Haha. I wouldn't dare.
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