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 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8280 - November 07, 2019, 05:30 PM
    Atara,

    Quote
    Gallez make a big point about the etymology of Macoraba as Mecca


    What is his point?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8281 - November 07, 2019, 06:07 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on November 07, 2019, 02:10 PM
    Helloooooooooo  Prophet Altara..  reflecting on your words,. hope to read new revelations ASAP.,

    So    expanding that zeca question on these two words Mecca & Medina

     ,... Mecca means.....Huh?
    .......Medina means....Huh?


    1/There are only conjectures.
    In Q 3,96 it is not Maka which is written :
    -96- The first house (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings.
    2/ According to Gallez, it means (sometimes) Yathrib  under the name "Medina" , and  "region/populated adminsistrative area"  under a jurisdiction ; he is right on this (cf. Q 28,20).


    Quote
    Q1., Does those words have any Arabic meaning .. such as "Muhammad" means ...........Praise the lord ... Praise worthy person ??


    One have to understand one thing : the kinship between Syriac/Hebrew with Arabic and that  those languages (Syriac/Hebrew) have invented all the vocabulary used in the Quran concerning the Biblical God.
    Therefore those words cannot be seen as genuine "Arabic". The only Arabic in the Quran is the language used, but certainly not the words used in it.

    Quote
    Q2..Clearly Mecca word is used in Quran  assuming the date of that manuscript around the year 645.,  does that mean Arabs/nomads/travelers  did know the present town Mecca around the year 645??


    Probably not. Because Private Arabs grunt was not "Muslim". They were possibly aware of a propheric figure.  Only the leaders had some texts.

    Quote
    Q3. Coming to Umayyad Caliphate(( between the years 660-750 or so)) ...and these two towns ..  Mecca  ......Medina.,

    Did any one write anything about these towns and the people living in those towns preferably from NON-ARABIC WRITERS??

    Nope.
     

    Quote
    thank you for your time and answers Prophet A...


     Cheesy
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8282 - November 07, 2019, 06:07 PM
    Sean Anthony - Two ‘Lost’ Sūras of the Qurʾān: Sūrat al-Khalʿ and Sūrat al-Ḥafd between Textual and Ritual Canon

    https://www.academia.edu/40869286/Two_Lost_Sūras_of_the_Qurʾān_Sūrat_al-Khalʿ_and_Sūrat_al-Ḥafd_between_Textual_and_Ritual_Canon_1st_-3rd_7th_-9th_Centuries_Pre-Print_Version_
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8283 - November 07, 2019, 09:29 PM
    Quote from: zeca on November 07, 2019, 04:42 PM
    Altara - would you see the association of al-Zubayr with Mecca as historical?


    The Muslims historiographers of the 9 and 10 th c.who consider the master narrative (Mecca/Kaba) as historical, and alluding to the association of al-Zubayr with Mecca, release the existence of this association. It is an interesting one. For this they have no perceptible reasons to invent.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8284 - November 07, 2019, 10:18 PM
    Quote from: mundi on November 07, 2019, 05:30 PM
    Atara,

    What is his point?


    That " Makka" has nothing to see  etymologically with Macoraba.
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8285 - November 08, 2019, 09:38 AM
    Quote
    That " Makka" has nothing to see  etymologically with Macoraba.


    I remember reading something from Luxenberg about that on Gallez' site.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8286 - November 08, 2019, 03:01 PM
    Review of Harald Motzki, Reconstruction of a Source of Ibn Isḥāq’s Life of the Prophet 
     
    Reconstruction of a Source of Ibn Isḥāq’s Life of the Prophet and Early Qurʾān Exegesis: A Study of Early Ibn ʿAbbās Traditions , Piscataway, NJ: Gorgias Press, 2017, 144 pp., ISBN: 9781463206598.
    Reviewed by: Mehmetcan Akpınar , University of Tübingen, Tübingen, Germany, akpinar@aoi.uni-tuebingen.dehttps://doi.org/10.1515/islam-2019-0043

    Ibn Isḥāq’s (d. 150/767) seminal work on the life of the Prophet Muḥammad, known as his Sīra , is invaluable for academic research, as it is one of the earliest Arabic sources to provide substantial information on the foundations of Islam and its Prophet’s career. Despite its importance, Ibn Isḥāq’s original narration is not directly available to researchers and needs to be consulted through different recensions, such as the standard recension of Ibn Hishām (d. 218/833), or those of others that are fragmentarily preserved in the classical sources. Besides the inaccessibility of the original text, issues such as the scope of Ibn Isḥāq’s work and the nature of his sources continue to puzzle the field.


    https://www.academia.edu/40578530/Review_of_Harald_Motzki_Reconstruction_of_a_Source_of_Ibn_Is%E1%B8%A5%C4%81q_s_Life_of_the_Prophet
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8287 - November 08, 2019, 05:07 PM
    Ian David Morris - Class relations at the origins of Islam

    http://www.iandavidmorris.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Class-relations-at-the-origins-of-Islam-—-Ian-D.-Morris.pdf
    Quote
    The anecdotes in the paper are by no means new. They have been part of the scholarly conversation since M.J. Kister’s article on Ṭāʾif, published in 1979. But where Kister found a series of contracts, what I see is a peasant community yearning to be free. A Marxist interpretation lays bare the class relations in every contract: the asymmetry of power and the tacit threat of violence. For students of Early Islam, this kind of investigation might seem unfamiliar, even eccentric. But I hope to convince my colleagues that such an orientation upon our sources can enrich our understanding of the people who built Islam. The merchants of Arabia were also landlords; their caravans were fed on land rent. This was the class that Muḥammad unified. As the Conquests proceeded, many poor Arabians enlisted in the Muslim armies; they and their descendants did very well. Quite a few generals and governors claimed descent from the Thaqīf. But those who stayed home were squeezed for rent and eventually transported. However many stories of rags to riches our sources like to tell, the fact of exploitation never ends. The origins of Islam belong to the history of class struggle.

    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8288 - November 08, 2019, 05:36 PM
    Well... What I need from Morris is not his elaborations about  the retro projection of Muslims historiographers of what they thought they were the environment of Mecca, but sources from 630-700 that alludes to the fact that Muʿawiya come from there.
    I'm still waiting.
    Besides, I'm waiting as well to some sura studies.
    I think I can wait for a long time (unfortunately...)



  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8289 - November 08, 2019, 05:57 PM
    Morris:

    He wisely stopped his Mecca study end of 6th C...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8290 - November 09, 2019, 11:29 AM
    Oliver Leaman (ed) - The Qur’an: An Encyclopedia

    https://ahmadladhani.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/21470616-the-qur-an-an-encyclopedia.pdf
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8291 - November 09, 2019, 01:09 PM
    New Books Network podcast:

    Najam Haider - The Rebel and the Imam in Early Islam

    https://newbooksnetwork.com/najam-haider-the-rebel-and-the-imam-in-early-islam-cambridge-up-2019/
    Quote
    In the absence of any real certainty about the nature and intention of the early sources that tell us the story of the early Islamic period, how can we use them? What sort of methodological approaches may we deploy to elucidate the meanings of texts, often similar in their core elements, but with divergent perspectives and intentions that cut across a range of genres? In The Rebel and the Imam in Early Islam (Cambridge University Press, 2019), Professor Najam Haider, Associate Professor in the Department of Religion at Barnard, follows his two earlier books on Shi’ism with an exploration of the link between early Islamic historical writing and Late Antique and Classic Rhetoric. Najam seeks not to supplant positivist approaches to history with his new methodology, but rather to ask new kinds of questions relating to intention, meaning, and community.


    Preview: https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Rebel_and_the_Imam_in_Early_Islam.html?id=QtGoDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8292 - November 09, 2019, 02:41 PM
    Petra Sijpesteijn - Expressing New Rule: Seals from Early Islamic Egypt and Syria, 600–800 CE

    https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/76812/Sijpesteijn_2018.pdf?sequence=1
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8293 - November 09, 2019, 10:37 PM
    Quote from: Altara on November 07, 2019, 06:07 PM

    In Q 3,96 it is not Maka which is written :
    -96- The first house (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings.


    3:96 is just a "quoranization" of Psalms 84

    1 How lovely is your dwelling place,
        Lord Almighty!
    2 My soul yearns, even faints,
        for the courts of the Lord;
    my heart and my flesh cry out
        for the living God.
    3 Even the sparrow has found a home,
        and the swallow a nest for herself,
        where she may have her young—
    a place near your altar,
        Lord Almighty, my King and my God.
    4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house;
        they are ever praising you.[c]

    5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
        whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.
    6 As they pass through the Valley of Baka,
        they make it a place of springs;
        the autumn rains also cover it with pools.[d]
    7 They go from strength to strength,
        till each appears before God in Zion.


  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8294 - November 10, 2019, 12:06 AM
    Yes.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8295 - November 10, 2019, 01:11 AM
    Languages and scripts in ancient North Arabia and their use at Al Ula and Madain Salih
    Michael CA Macdonald  ALULA Wonder of Arabia. Catalogue of the exhibition "Al Ula, Wonder of Arabia" held at the Institut du monde arabe from 9 October 2019 to 19 January 2020.

    https://www.academia.edu/40796342/Languages_and_scripts_in_ancient_North_Arabia_and_their_use_at_AlUla_and_Madain_Salih
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8296 - November 10, 2019, 09:03 AM
    boy Marc_S  writes best post after a looong .....loong time  but he forgot to add something.. he just a gave a number .. let me add that

    Marc_S types  Psalm    words  and  Prophet Altara  REFLECTS WITH ONE QURANIC WORD ....says   "YES"

    Quote from: Marc S on November 09, 2019, 10:37 PM
    3:96 is just a "quoranization" of Psalms 84

    1 How lovely is your dwelling place,
        Lord Almighty!
    2 My soul yearns, even faints,
        for the courts of the Lord;
    my heart and my flesh cry out
        for the living God.
    3 Even the sparrow has found a home,
        and the swallow a nest for herself,
        where she may have her young—
    a place near your altar,
        Lord Almighty, my King and my God.
    4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house;
        they are ever praising you.[c]

    5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
        whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.
    6 As they pass through the Valley of Baka,
        they make it a place of springs;
        the autumn rains also cover it with pools.[d]
    7 They go from strength to strength,
        till each appears before God in Zion.


    Quote from: Altara on November 10, 2019, 12:06 AM
    Yes.

    and that missing in Marc_s post is this statement of  few words.. 3.96.,  well  let me different translations

    Quote
    Yusuf Ali:   The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings:

    Shakir:   Most surely the first house appointed for men is the one at Bekka, blessed and a guidance for the nations.

    Pickthall:   Lo! the first Sanctuary appointed for mankind was that at Becca, a blessed place, a guidance to the people 

    Mohsin Khan:   Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), full of blessing, and a guidance for Al-'Alamin (mankind and jinn).

    Saheeh:   Indeed, the first House [of worship] established for mankind was that at Makkah - blessed and a guidance for the worlds.

    FOOLS ADD SOMETHING IN TO QURAN IN BRACKETS .. and  let me cross those words .,

    Quote
    So is it  Bakkah or is it Makkah ??   
    Bakkah ?? ....Makkah ??.....     Bakkah ?? .... Makkah ??..... '
     Bakkah ?? ....  Makkah ??.....Bakkah ?? ....Makkah ??.....

     Bakkah   ....  Bakkah   ....  Bakkah   ....  Bakkah  .... '
    No..no..no..no,........Noooo
    Makkah ??....Makkah ??..... Makkah ??..... Makkah ??..... '
    what is the big deal??

    so what is the big deal my boy??

    big deal is ,, take  a bible sonnet and make a  rap  sonnet  in Arabic language .. beautiful.. beautiful
    big deal is .. one is  a beautiful valley .. other is is a desert with just zam zam water
    big deal is .. even today that valley  is still beautiful  and people drink water in the name of Allah
    other  one is  crawling with desert dwellers  ruled by desert LIZARDS  and  LIZARDS  drink oil  & make war noises in the name of allah ..

    oh well .. let me take the dog to walk ...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8297 - November 10, 2019, 11:00 AM
    Quote
    Languages and scripts in ancient North Arabia and their use at Al Ula and Madain Salih
    Michael CA Macdonald  ALULA Wonder of Arabia. Catalogue of the exhibition "Al Ula, Wonder of Arabia" held at the Institut du monde arabe from 9 October 2019 to 19 January 2020.


    Interesting.  I am always looking for mention of the first islamic arabic inscription in these studies.  I never see the mention of the Zuhayr inscription which is found in Al-Ula and is the oldest dated Arabic Islamic inscription. On top of that, it also confirms the correctness of the Islamic tradition.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8298 - November 10, 2019, 12:23 PM
    Matthew Kuiper - The Roots and Achievements of the Early Proto-Sunni Movement: A Profile and Interpretation

    https://www.academia.edu/7362074/The_Roots_and_Achievements_of_the_Early_Proto-Sunni_Movement_A_Profile_and_Interpretation
    Which side are you on?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8299 - November 10, 2019, 03:46 PM
    Quote from: mundi on November 10, 2019, 11:00 AM
    Interesting.  I am always looking for mention of the first islamic arabic inscription in these studies.  I never see the mention of the Zuhayr inscription which is found in Al-Ula and is the oldest dated Arabic Islamic inscription.


    Because it seems to be a fake.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8300 - November 10, 2019, 04:50 PM
    Quote from: zeca on November 10, 2019, 12:23 PM
    Matthew Kuiper - The Roots and Achievements of the Early Proto-Sunni Movement: A Profile and Interpretation

    https://www.academia.edu/7362074/The_Roots_and_Achievements_of_the_Early_Proto-Sunni_Movement_A_Profile_and_Interpretation


    Interesting.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8301 - November 10, 2019, 08:23 PM
    Altara.

    You find the Kuiper article interesting. Why?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8302 - November 10, 2019, 09:58 PM
    A good summarized vision of the period.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8303 - November 11, 2019, 01:04 PM
    Quote
    Quote from: Altara on November 10, 2019, 04:50 PM
    Interesting.

    Quote from: Altara on November 10, 2019, 09:58 PM
    A good summarized vision of the period.


    That is 5 year old article from



    I am sure if author rewrites that publication again., he will change many of his statements  incidentally that journals is getting published since 1911... Lot of water and rivers of human blood flown down in to oceans since 1911 in so-called present Islamic nations....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8304 - November 11, 2019, 03:52 PM
    Quote from: mundi on November 10, 2019, 11:00 AM
    Interesting.  I am always looking for mention of the first islamic arabic inscription in these studies.  I never see the mention of the Zuhayr inscription which is found in Al-Ula and is the oldest dated Arabic Islamic inscription. On top of that, it also confirms the correctness of the Islamic tradition.




    https://twitter.com/phdnix/status/959367734407630848
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8305 - November 11, 2019, 10:37 PM
    Biblical Turns of Phrase in the Quran
    Gabriel SaidReynolds

    https://www.academia.edu/40897969/Biblical_Turns_of_Phrase_in_the_Quran

      Academic scholars have long recognized that the Quran is a text closely related
    to the Bible and later biblical tradition.1 Already in 1833 Abraham Geiger devoted
    a book, Was hat Mohammed aus dem Judenthume aufgenommen? (What
    has Muḥammad taken from Judaism?) to the question of the relationship of
    the Quran to Jewish tradition. The standard study of the Quran’s relationship
    to the Bible, Heinrich Speyer’s Die biblischen Erzählungen im Qoran (The biblical
    narratives of the Quran), published about a hundred years later, includes
    detailed discussions of the Quran’s biblical material in relation to Jewish and
    Christian literature.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8306 - November 12, 2019, 01:20 PM
    Quote from: Altara on November 11, 2019, 10:37 PM
    Biblical Turns of Phrase in the Quran
    Gabriel SaidReynolds

    https://www.academia.edu/40897969/Biblical_Turns_of_Phrase_in_the_Quran

     .............. in 1833 Abraham Geiger devoted a book, Was hat Mohammed aus dem Judenthume aufgenommen? (What has Muḥammad taken from Judaism?) to the question of the relationship of the Quran to Jewish tradition. The standard study of the Quran’s relationship to the Bible, Heinrich Speyer’s Die biblischen Erzählungen im Qoran (The biblical narratives of the Quran), published about a hundred years later,

    There you go., that is great title for a chapter in your near future  book dear Altara but change that

    What has Muḥammad taken from Judaism?  .. to "What has Quran  taken from Bible?"

    A careful reading of Quran tells me .Quran writers  have taken everything from OT & NT stories and put up a "book of dialogue "between Allah/god and an imaginary  preacher based on  riddles from Bible stories

    If I read Quran,  removing the verses that are related to bible stories., THERE WILL BE NOTHING LEFT IN IT..  indeed Quran is a Book of Dialogue.. god-man dialogue.. That Poet of east  Allama Iqbal wrote wonderful sonnets on dialogue between god and man -

    Quote
    God :

    I fashioned this world out of one and the same clay;
    You made Iran; Ethiopia and Tartary.
    From mere earth I made steel, pure and without alloy;
    You fashioned sword and arrowhead and musketry.
    You made the axe, with which you felled trees grown by me,
    And fashioned cages for my singing birds, born free.

    Man:

    You made the night; I made the lamp that lights it up.
    You fashioned clay; I made of it a drinking cup.
    You made the wilderness, the mountain and the steppe;
    I fashioned garden, orchard, avenue and scape.
    I change dread poisons into panaceas, and
    I am the one who fashions mirrors out of sand.


    So who is great ?  god or wo/man??  well when god comes out human brain ., that question is irrelevant .. ..............god made nothing man made everything..............
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8307 - November 12, 2019, 05:05 PM
    Reynolds on Twitter:
    Quote
    2:02 PM · Nov 12, 2019
    Preparing for my @NotreDame seminar today on Islamic Origins with Patricia Crone's Meccan Trade on tap. Reread the brilliant post (later published) by @iandavidmorris in which he reminds us: "It is not good enough to say that the first half of Macoraba sounds a bit like Mecca."

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8308 - November 12, 2019, 09:35 PM
    Le Coran des historiens/The Koran of Historians, 3408 pages - nov. 2019
    A world first, this learned and accessible monument, which brings together thirty international specialists, offers, in three thousand pages, a complete and critical synthesis of past and present research on the origins of the Koran, its formation and appearance, its composition and canonization: twenty exhaustive studies on the context introduce here to the detailed analysis of the text, the archaeological and epigraphic elements, the geographical and linguistic environments, the ethnological and political facts, the religious parallels enlightening, verse after verse, in a total commentary the 114 Suras of the founding book of Islam.
    https://www.editionsducerf.fr/librairie/livre/18880/le-coran-des-historiens-coffret

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #8309 - November 12, 2019, 10:35 PM
    Biblical Turns of Phrase in the Quran
    Gabriel Said Reynolds:

    Quote
    It seems to me that these stories of Muḥammad’s conversations with the
    Jews of Medina should be taken as haggadic exegesis and not as “what really
    happened.” Indeed, it is notable that we have two different asbāb al-nuzūl
    (or “occasions of revelation”) accounts depending on which Quranic variant
    is followed. This suggests that both accounts were the product of storytellers

    Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Strawberry Fields.
    Nothing is real ...

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