Who are the true Muslims

1« Previous thread | Next thread »
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Who are the true Muslims – all or none?
OP - November 14, 2014, 05:09 PM

Good article by Matthew Syed:

The fundamental problem in the Middle East today is not with the Sunni or the Shia or even with Isis. The problem is with religion itself. It is the idea of received wisdom, divine revelation, the notion that "I have heard the Truth" and that everyone else is deluded. This is the corrupting, anti-rational, distorting engine of religious violence in the Middle East, just as it once triggered Christianity into a bloody civil war.

Truth divorced from evidence (or anything that counts as evidence) is perilous. Religion is not the only cause of violence, of course, but it has a particular virulence.

Members of my family have argued for jihad, not because they are crazy or unsympathetic, but because they think this is the will of God. They think this because the Koran, a bit like the Bible, has elements that can (rather easily) be interpreted as authorising violence.

Christianity has improved its record on violence in recent centuries, but only because it has become less religious. The farther it has retreated from the idea of revealed truth, the less it has killed people who take a different view. Most Christians today associate truth with evidence, reason and other Enlightenment ideals.

For all the debate over foreign policy, this is the only solution to the bloodshed in the Middle East, too.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2014/11/who-are-the-true-muslims--all-or-none
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Who are the true Muslims ? all or none?
Reply #1 - November 14, 2014, 05:11 PM

And here's the core sentence:

The farther it has retreated from the idea of revealed truth, the less it has killed people who take a different view.
- Tonyt
- Pub Regular
- offline
Who are the true Muslims – all or none?
Reply #2 - November 14, 2014, 06:02 PM

As absurd as this may sound. I think a big problem is the scientific miracles stories that Muslims love to spread around. Or rather that the level of education in the Muslim World is so poor that people fall so easily for these scientific miracle claims.

From my own anecdotal experience, when you ask a Muslim why they believe Islam is true, they will refer you to some alleged scientific miracle.

In which case the solution would be to provide engaging and inspirational educational materials on scientific topics about how we actually got here and how the world actually works (i.e. on biological evolution, physical anthropology, geology, astrology, the development of human societies, sociological theories on religion, etc.) Perhaps these kinds of materials should not be confrontational or openly challenging of Islam (seeing as a lot of Muslims tend to be paranoid that everything is a plot to destroy Islam) or perhaps they should be, not sure about that. The idea is to help people see the bigger picture in subtle ways.
- bogart
- Pub Regular
- offline
Who are the true Muslims ? all or none?
Reply #3 - November 14, 2014, 06:06 PM

Education, superstition and miracle events have a correlation. Take the Hindu statue milk miracle for example. It is capillary action but to those that lack an education it is a miracle.
- INcePtion
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Who are the true Muslims – all or none?
Reply #4 - November 14, 2014, 11:06 PM

All the muslims I've encountered so far, have their own interpretation of the Quran, which pisses me off.
I should not be pissed off, because if they followed the Quran and hadiths word by word, they surely would be insane people.
But on the other hand I just dont find it is right. Why do they "beautify " Islam? Why cant they dig more into the actual verses and be factual?
It is hard to explain this feeling, but I hate it when muslim defend their beloved shitty holy book with the wrong facts.
- Jedi
- Director of Shariah Police
- Ex-Muslim
- Observe HAYYA at all times
- offline
Who are the true Muslims ? all or none?
Reply #5 - November 14, 2014, 11:19 PM

Reality is a butthurt.

No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
- INcePtion
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Who are the true Muslims – all or none?
Reply #6 - November 14, 2014, 11:24 PM

My anger towards Islam is growing day by day. :(
I just feel I must respond to every single muslim claiming that Islam is peace and freedom.
I want to break my silence, which probably will cost my life by claiming that Islam is not a peaceful religion. How ironic is that...
- Nikolaj
- Pub Regular
- Yes, I have a duck fetish!
- offline
Who are the true Muslims ? all or none?
Reply #7 - November 14, 2014, 11:34 PM

Meditate and focus on this:
Quote
I'll take a potato chip...and Eat It!

Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Who are the true Muslims ? all or none?
Reply #8 - November 15, 2014, 01:41 PM

Quote from: INcePtion on November 14, 2014, 11:06 PM
All the muslims I've encountered so far, have their own interpretation of the Quran, which pisses me off.
I should not be pissed off, because if they followed the Quran and hadiths word by word, they surely would be insane people.
But on the other hand I just dont find it is right. Why do they "beautify " Islam? Why cant they dig more into the actual verses and be factual?
It is hard to explain this feeling, but I hate it when muslim defend their beloved shitty holy book with the wrong facts.

I know exactly what you mean. It's so frustrating. Having to sit and listen to intelligent people talk about Islam as though it is the most beautiful, peaceful religion in the world. Saying that X means Y and up is down. While I sit and smile and can't open my mouth.
- allat
- Euphoria
- Administrator
- offline
Who are the true Muslims ? all or none?
Reply #9 - November 15, 2014, 05:25 PM

Every person who claims to be Muslim is Muslim. I don't like to overwrite what people want to call themselves. That means that everyone from Da'esh, to Boko Haram, to Rouhani, to Maududi, to Asifa Lahore, Maajid Nawaz, Malala, and Aasif Mandvi, are ALL Muslim if they identify as Muslim.

As for what is the 'real Islam', there is no such thing.

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Who are the true Muslims – all or none?
Reply #10 - November 15, 2014, 05:46 PM

Quote from: allat on November 15, 2014, 05:25 PM
Every person who claims to be Muslim is Muslim. I don't like to overwrite what people want to call themselves. That means that everyone from Da'esh, to Boko Haram, to Rouhani, to Maududi, to Asifa Lahore, Maajid Nawaz, Malala, and Aasif Mandvi, are ALL Muslim if they identify as Muslim.

As for what is the 'real Islam', there is no such thing.

Amen and hallelujah to that, sister!
- INcePtion
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Who are the true Muslims ? all or none?
Reply #11 - November 15, 2014, 05:57 PM

Quote from: Nikolaj on November 14, 2014, 11:34 PM
Meditate and focus on this:

You are right. As an xmuslim, my responsability should be increasing awareness of the atrocities committed in the name of religion worldwide.
- Nikolaj
- Pub Regular
- Yes, I have a duck fetish!
- offline
Who are the true Muslims ? all or none?
Reply #12 - November 15, 2014, 07:15 PM

Actually I just wanted you to focus on and eat that potato chip

Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
- allat
- Euphoria
- Administrator
- offline
Who are the true Muslims ? all or none?
Reply #13 - November 15, 2014, 08:36 PM

Quote from: INcePtion on November 14, 2014, 11:06 PM
All the muslims I've encountered so far, have their own interpretation of the Quran, which pisses me off.
I should not be pissed off, because if they followed the Quran and hadiths word by word, they surely would be insane people.
But on the other hand I just dont find it is right. Why do they "beautify " Islam? Why cant they dig more into the actual verses and be factual?
It is hard to explain this feeling, but I hate it when muslim defend their beloved shitty holy book with the wrong facts.

Quote from: INcePtion on November 14, 2014, 11:24 PM
My anger towards Islam is growing day by day. :(
I just feel I must respond to every single muslim claiming that Islam is peace and freedom.
I want to break my silence, which probably will cost my life by claiming that Islam is not a peaceful religion. How ironic is that...

Don't do anything rash that would put your safety at risk. Work towards becoming free of the people who could hurt you right now if you were to come out. You'll have plenty of lifetime to make a difference once you're strong and independent.

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Who are the true Muslims ? all or none?
Reply #14 - November 16, 2014, 12:32 AM

Quote from: Abu Ali on November 14, 2014, 05:11 PM
And here's the core sentence:

The farther it has retreated from the idea of revealed truth, the less it has killed people who take a different view.

this really is a brilliant encapsulation

Matthew Syed has an interesting background. I believe his father is Pakistani who married an English lady, and converted to Christianity. He writes about Islam with some insight and sympathy towards Muslims, but he doesn't have any illusions about certain aspects of Islam as he's seen fundamentalism up close.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- Sir Wankalot
- Pub Regular
- small, furry and brown
- offline
Who are the true Muslims ? all or none?
Reply #15 - November 17, 2014, 09:56 PM

Thanks for sharing this Abu Ali! It was a very well written piece.
1« Previous thread | Next thread »