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Theme Changer

 Topic: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo

 (Read 85310 times)
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  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #300 - January 11, 2015, 11:44 PM

    I was somewhat surprised this morning when my husband reported that many Saudis he knew are condemning the attack on facebook.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #301 - January 11, 2015, 11:46 PM

    Quote from: lua
    .



    I also get where musi is coming from, and I agree with the majority of his sentiments.

    However, I see a tension between the two propositions:

    (1) We should give our entire attention to the murders only
    (2) We should condemn the murders, in their entirety.


    If you want to affirm (2), you can't affirm (1). (2) entails that you have to give some focus to the cartoons. I would almost say that this is a moot point.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #302 - January 11, 2015, 11:46 PM

    I was somewhat surprised this morning when my husband reported that many Saudis he knew are condemning the attack on facebook.


    Good on them! Do they have any views about Raif Badawi?
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #303 - January 11, 2015, 11:54 PM

    Could someone tell me how would the average Muslim in the street see this incident?  The media tell us everyone is outraged etc.  But I really don't trust the media to report accurately.  Or maybe more interestingly, how would you have seen this incident when you were a believer in Islam? 


    I think the average muslim would condemn the attack but then finish it off with a however.   Years ago i would have quickly took on the conspiracy stories and blamed the west, the cia etc
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #304 - January 11, 2015, 11:56 PM

    By qualifying a "however" or "but", I think that condemnation becomes conditional.

    " I condemn the attack. However, the cartoons hurt my feelings."

    What do you make of the above?

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #305 - January 12, 2015, 12:00 AM


    I also get where musi is coming from, and I agree with the majority of his sentiments.

    However, I see a tension between the two propositions:

    (1) We should give our entire attention to the murders only
    (2) We should condemn the murders, in their entirety.


    If you want to affirm (2), you can't affirm (1). (2) entails that you have to give some focus to the cartoons. I would almost say that this is a moot point.


    You might be thinking on a different level than I, Qtian. Grin Of course we have to acknowledge that the cartoonists were targeted because their cartoons were of an offensive nature, that's why they didn't attack a bakery or a shoe store. I'm not saying that should be forgotten. I just am concerned when nearly half of what I see in the public discussed about the shooting is the author's personal feelings on the cartoons themselves, knowing that the offensiveness of the cartoons will be used to justify this by opportunists and be significant to those who are unclear or uneducated about the larger issue.

    I guess my feelings are that there's a time and a place for everything. And a bunch of people publicly talking about the tastelessness/offensiveness/hatefulness of the cartoons directly after the cartoonists were all shot seems to me to not be ideal. But yes, whatever, it would be pretty ironic to tell you you couldn't. I will say that I don't think it's a great idea, though.

    I'm not sure, Lily, the last I heard was him muttering about the video of him being lashed about how everyone yelled "Allahu akbar" when it was finished and how stupid he thinks his people are. But at least when he was sentenced, it sure felt like public opinion was against him.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #306 - January 12, 2015, 12:02 AM

    I take no issue with what you're saying lua.

    From the outset, I was arguing against this:

    Quote
    It is the inhumane act that should be our entire focus


    You should know by now that I'm quite pedantic. I probably wouldn't have gotten into the field that I'm in, if I wasn't.



    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #307 - January 12, 2015, 12:05 AM

    Grin I get confused easily, Qtian. When I try reading your logic thread, steam comes out of my ears.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #308 - January 12, 2015, 12:08 AM

    Could someone tell me how would the average Muslim in the street see this incident?  The media tell us everyone is outraged etc.  But I really don't trust the media to report accurately.  Or maybe more interestingly, how would you have seen this incident when you were a believer in Islam?  


    My Muslim friend has been going on about the 'free speech' hypocrisy since that day. Constantly bombarding me with messages saying but why not defend anti-semitism, why noy defend racism, why not defend holocaust denial.

    No matter how hard I try to reason with him, he just keeps going on and on and on.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #309 - January 12, 2015, 12:09 AM

    Quote from: lu-wah
    .


    Which thread was that?

    I'm currently interesting in paraconsistent logics, that would make for a cool thread in the philosophy section.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #310 - January 12, 2015, 12:11 AM

    mysmilie_977

    I'm not sure, I remember you had one back in the day, and it was a million miles over my head.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #311 - January 12, 2015, 12:12 AM

    Either the Sets, Counting & Probability , Probability theory thread, or the one about F-inductive arguments?

    Anyways, I think I'm in need of sleep lol.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #312 - January 12, 2015, 12:13 AM

     wacko wacko wacko
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #313 - January 12, 2015, 12:16 AM

    lua y u no math/logic

    (I'll stop annoying you now Tongue )


    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #314 - January 12, 2015, 12:17 AM

    On account'a it bein' hard. :(
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #315 - January 12, 2015, 12:19 AM

    I ran into a dawah guy, he holds a masters in biochemistry & is head of a biology department at a secondary school. He also doesn't believe in human Evolution.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #316 - January 12, 2015, 12:27 AM

    I ran into a dawah guy, he holds a masters in biochemistry & is head of a biology department at a secondary school. He also doesn't believe in human Evolution.

    Hmm.. how did you guys turn this "Deadly attack on office of French magazine"  thread in to dawah guy, Islam and evolutionary biology folder  Qtian??  

    Whoever that dawah rascal may be.,  that guy  should Quit teaching in schools specially basic  science subjects  and go back to school himself.,  Anyways  the news on that Deadly attack  says

    Millions march against terrorism in France's biggest rally


    PARIS: At least 3.7 million people demonstrated in France on Sunday to honour the victims of terrorist attacks last week, the Interior Ministry said.

    Quote
    ...The ministry said millions of people took to the streets nationwide, with Paris alone seeing an “unprecedented” 1.5 million demonstrators, AFP reported.

    The ministry said it was the biggest popular demonstration ever registered in the country.

    Dozens of world leaders including Muslim and Jewish statesmen linked arms and led hundreds of thousands of French citizens in an unprecedented march under high security to pay tribute to victims of militant attacks.

    President Francois Hollande and leaders from Germany, Italy, Israel, Turkey, Britain and the Palestinian territories among others, moved off from the central Place de la Republique ahead of a sea of French and other flags.

    Giant letters attached to a statue in the square spelt out the word Pourquoi?” (Why?) and small groups sang the “La Marseillaise” national anthem.

    Some 2,200 police and soldiers patrolled Paris streets to protect marchers from would-be attackers, with police snipers on rooftops and plain-clothes detectives mingling with the crowd.,,,,,,

     the link also has this picture of people who attended that rally..


    French President Francois Hollande is surrounded by heads of state including (LtoR) Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Mali's President Ibrahim Boubacar Keita, Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel, European Council President Donald Tusk and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas as they attend the solidarity march (Marche Republicaine) in the streets of Paris. -AFP Photo

    That is a nice picture

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #317 - January 12, 2015, 12:29 AM

    ok

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #318 - January 12, 2015, 12:46 AM

    ok

    Oops.. "Hi yeez" turned in to "ok".... So I respond to "Hi yeez"

    Hello Qtian  Good to see you, glad to read you hope this years will bring that good luck you need in your life...

    anyways .. back to that horrible tragedy... So  Rogues killed 17 innocent people in those three terror attacks   at the satire magazine Charlie Hebdo office.,  a French policewoman was gunned down next day and on the third  four hostages were killed when a terrorist seized a Jewish grocery. In all, 17 people were massacred by at least three terror suspects over three days.

    Let me put their name and pictures here..


    Yoav Hattab :  
    Quote
    Yoav Hattab, 21, was the son of the chief rabbi of Tunis, Tunisia, JSSNews reported. His family lived in Tunisia and he lived alone in Paris as a student, according to French news outlets RTL and Agence France Press. He came from a family of seven children. He often traveled to Tunisia to visit family and vacation,


    Yohan Cohen:
    Quote
    Yohan Cohen was a 22-year-old student, according JSSNews and a French news outlet. He was born in Enghien-les-Bains and attended ORT school, a Jewish professional establishment, according to French news outlets RTL and Agence-France Press.

    His parents were from Algeria and settled in Sarcelles, France, in the 1960s, the outlets said. He was a grandson of a famous Jewish-Tunisian singer, Doukha, who died in December. He liked rap, particularly French rapper Booba.



    François-Michel Saada:  
    Quote
    François-Michel Saada, 63, was a retired senior executive and the father of Jonathan and Emily, who both live in Israel, according to French news outlets RTL and Agence-France Press.

    He was married to Laurence Saada, a psychomotor therapist, for more than 30 years, the outlets said. He was born in Tunis, Tunisia.


    Philippe Braham:  
    Quote
    Philippe Braham, 45, worked at an IT consulting company and worshipped at a synagogue in Montrouge, French news outlets reported. His children attended a Jewish school not far from the scene of the shooting where a police officer was killed a day earlier, allegedly by the same terrorist who killed Braham.

    His brother is the rabbi of the synagogue in the Paris suburb of Pantin. Braham was described by a friend as "someone dedicated, always ready to help others," French media said.




    Clarissa Jean-Philippe:  
    Quote
    Clarissa Jean-Philippe, 26, was about to graduate from the police academy on January 12, French media outlets reported. She and her partner were responding to a traffic accident when she was gunned down. Both officers were unarmed, working in a quiet town.

    Jean-Philippe had been a security guard, whose training led her to decide upon a career in law enforcement, French media outlets reported. She was from a rural area of the town of Sainte-Marie in Martinique.

    Known as motivated, enthusiastic and eager to succeed, she took a three-week break visiting her family in the West Indies for Christmas and returned to France on December 27.

    "When I heard the news this Thursday morning on TV, I was thinking to myself, 'As long as it's not my little Clarissa,' " said grandmother Georges-Marie Chery, according to French outlet MetroNews. But shortly afterward, the grandmother received confirmation from Clarissa's fiance.



    Ahmed Merabet:
    Quote
    Ahmed Merabet was a member of the 11th arrondissement police force that pursued the attackers. He was shot dead as he lay injured on the pavement, according to French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve.
    "Do you want to kill us?" a gunman asked him, according to media reports.
    "No, it's okay, boss," Merabet replied. The gunman shot him in the head at point-blank range.

    Merabet was Muslim, his brother Malek told reporters. "He was killed by false Muslims," the brother said. "Islam is a safe religion."


    well I will add the pics of others who lost their lives in that  French magazine Charlie Hebdo in the next post..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #319 - January 12, 2015, 12:50 AM

    Quote
    Oops.. "Hi yeez" turned in to "ok".... So I respond to "Hi yeez"


    Yeah. You haven't been responding to my celestial love for you, so I decided to tone down the niceties.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #320 - January 12, 2015, 01:46 AM

    Aside from the crushing heartbreak over the murder of so many innocents, images I'll never be able to erase from my conscience, the subsequent chilling effect it could have on freedoms, the victim blaming, and the ghoulish exploitation of the tragedy by bloodthirsty supremacist counterparts closer to home – what I take from this is, even when sick and burnt out from hearing and talking about Islam and choosing to take a break from it, Islam still manages to rape its way into my sphere of existence.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #321 - January 12, 2015, 03:28 AM

    Qtain, sorry I had to sleep. But I'm glad I did because lua did a better job of explaining my feelings than I could ever do. I think we agree on everything anyways Q, we are just getting caught up in the wording a little. We both think the acts should be condemned. We both think that we should get to the root of what the cause is. I even agree that we should chip away, rather than try to blast Islam out of existence; that would be impossible anyways, and I'm not sure I would even want that. A more liberal, less literal, more secular, more tolerant and inclusive Islam would be cool with me.

    I think we disagree about the way that we should present our condemnation. We can agree to differ on that?

    Hi
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #322 - January 12, 2015, 03:29 AM

    Aside from the crushing heartbreak over the murder of so many innocents, images I'll never be able to erase from my conscience, the subsequent chilling effect it could have on freedoms, the victim blaming, and the ghoulish exploitation of the tragedy by bloodthirsty supremacist counterparts closer to home – what I take from this is, even when sick and burnt out from hearing and talking about Islam and choosing to take a break from it, Islam still manages to rape its way into my sphere of existence.


    I'm sorry it's in such circumstances, but I'm happy to see you back Ishina.

    Hi
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #323 - January 12, 2015, 04:09 AM

    I'm sorry it's in such circumstances, but I'm happy to see you back Ishina.


    Seconded.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #324 - January 12, 2015, 11:50 AM

    This is pretty cool:

    Look at his face.

    Netanyahu visits Paris synagogue, crowd breaks into national anthem

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #325 - January 12, 2015, 12:07 PM

    We can agree to differ on that?


    Sure

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #326 - January 12, 2015, 12:09 PM


    (I'll stop annoying you now Tongue )




    You and your ninja editing! I didn't see this. You never annoy me, Qtian. Grin
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #327 - January 12, 2015, 12:32 PM

    Aside from the crushing heartbreak over the murder of so many innocents, images I'll never be able to erase from my conscience, the subsequent chilling effect it could have on freedoms, the victim blaming, and the ghoulish exploitation of the tragedy by bloodthirsty supremacist counterparts closer to home – what I take from this is, even when sick and burnt out from hearing and talking about Islam and choosing to take a break from it, Islam still manages to rape its way into my sphere of existence.


    Good to see you. Ishina - I missed you.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #328 - January 12, 2015, 12:33 PM

    " I condemn the attack. However, the cartoons hurt my feelings."

    What do you make of the above?


    Personally I don't like that.

    I wouldn't want my criticism of the magazine to be in the same breath that I condemn the attack. I'd rather leave the condemnation without 'if's, 'buts' and 'howevers'
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #329 - January 12, 2015, 01:01 PM

    Personally I don't like that.

    I wouldn't want my criticism of the magazine to be in the same breath that I condemn the attack. I'd rather leave the condemnation without 'if's, 'buts' and 'howevers'



    "I condemn the attack, even if the cartoons hurt my feelings." Is better
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