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 Topic: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo

 (Read 87380 times)
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  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #420 - January 16, 2015, 01:10 AM



    Didn't really look through everything, just click one of the links (http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/) in the article and saw this part "But perception is not reality.  The data simply does not support such a hasty conclusion.  On the FBI’s official website, there exists a chronological list of all terrorist attacks committed on U.S. soil from the year 1980 all the way to 2005. " And the article shows a pie chart that says Latino contribute 42% of the attacks and extreme left wing groups contribute 24%.

    And this is a terrible statistical guide to policy making. Attack patterns in 1980s is not the same as 1990s and not the same as 2000s and still yet different to 2010s. And people are not living in 1980s any more. I don't see what is the purpose of lumping them all together other than to conclude that "the Islamic terrorist threat is exaggerated". Yes, they may well be. But they should have presented better evidence than THIS.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #421 - January 16, 2015, 01:13 AM

    True, I couldn't find the source of the numbers.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #422 - January 16, 2015, 01:31 AM

    Quote
    True, I couldn't find the source of the numbers.


    You can follow the links provided in the thinkprogress article. The numbers are from Europol reports and FBI reports, mostly. The Europol reports are much more meaningful as they are yearly reports. But I am still not convinced that the evidence is strong enough to be making sweeping conclusions based on Europol report numbers. For example, how about casualty numbers?

    The article could be right about their conclusion, but to be honest I am not convinced by their evidence - and the way they present their evidence.  wacko
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #423 - January 16, 2015, 03:44 AM

    mysmilie_977

    Refreshingly honest.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzP8e9b_OT8

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #424 - January 16, 2015, 06:08 AM

    You can follow the links provided in the thinkprogress article. The numbers are from Europol reports and FBI reports, mostly. The Europol reports are much more meaningful as they are yearly reports. But I am still not convinced that the evidence is strong enough to be making sweeping conclusions based on Europol report numbers. For example, how about casualty numbers?

    The article could be right about their conclusion, but to be honest I am not convinced by their evidence - and the way they present their evidence.  wacko


    If Jews, Christians, political extremists, etc. have lower casualty numbers when they bomb/terrorize, that just means they're shite at it. Tongue It's not that they're actively trying to kill fewer people, it's that they suck at building explosives and going on rampages without themselves getting neutralized early. They suck at planning it out.

    Not that that's a bad thing, a dumb as fuck terrorist is better for the rest of us than a smart one, but he's still a terrorist. And we shouldn't just forget about them just because they are so stupid.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #425 - January 16, 2015, 08:18 AM

    [url][http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/coffee-shop-boss-faces-death-threat-over-je-suis-charlie-sign-outside-brick-lane-shop-9976546.html/url]

          - bravest man in Tower Hamlets ?
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #426 - January 16, 2015, 08:21 AM

    Quote
    If Jews, Christians, political extremists, etc. have lower casualty numbers when they bomb/terrorize, that just means they're shite at it. Tongue It's not that they're actively trying to kill fewer people, it's that they suck at building explosives and going on rampages without themselves getting neutralized early. They suck at planning it out.

    Not that that's a bad thing, a dumb as fuck terrorist is better for the rest of us than a smart one, but he's still a terrorist. And we shouldn't just forget about them just because they are so stupid.


    But we are not even at the stage to find out the reason behind difference in casualties (if there's any) yet. We are only trying to discern the level of "danger". Regardless of the reason, if (a big if, I have no idea whether this is true) the religious terrors result in worse casualties/are more deadly, people shouldn't be saying that "the danger is exaggerated" just because the number of incidence is fewer, should they?
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #427 - January 16, 2015, 08:58 AM


    A step in the right direction. But still a little apologist for my liking. Perhaps it's impossible to go much beyond this level for Muslims themselves though, so I may be being harsh.

    He accuses Muslims of 'clearly not understanding the prophet they are trying to defend'. Perhaps it's his understanding of him that is skewed, and not theirs. Either way, it'd be encouraging if all Muslims were to become closer to the sentiments he expresses going forwards.

    Hi
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #428 - January 16, 2015, 10:24 AM



    Self-reflection is one thing many people never do. I think a lot of his views show the lack of unification of Muslims and Islam without a political and military institution. It reminds me of when Papal authority lost much of it's power. During the present I think much of the divide along ideological divides is similar to the Reformation movements finding bastions of power under nations of Europe. Nations with rulers which had questionable motives.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #429 - January 16, 2015, 12:43 PM



    Yes - excellent Khutbah.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #430 - January 16, 2015, 12:46 PM

    A step in the right direction. But still a little apologist for my liking. Perhaps it's impossible to go much beyond this level for Muslims themselves though, so I may be being harsh.

    He accuses Muslims of 'clearly not understanding the prophet they are trying to defend'. Perhaps it's his understanding of him that is skewed, and not theirs. Either way, it'd be encouraging if all Muslims were to become closer to the sentiments he expresses going forwards.



    Considering the speaker and his audience - which I consider both to be quite fundamentalist - this is certainly a good step in the right direction.

    Expecting more from this section of the Muslim community is expecting too much - for now at least.

    Of course there are other more liberal-minded Muslims who already know all this - but as I say for this guy and his followers it is a very positive step.

  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #431 - January 16, 2015, 12:55 PM

    New hostage situation in Paris post office. Claim to be armed with guns and grenades. Police surrounding building
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #432 - January 16, 2015, 02:03 PM

    I think its just someone who can no longer afford a stamp and is after a few freebies. 
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #433 - January 16, 2015, 02:53 PM

    From an earlier debate over whether Charlie Hebdo was racist, and in response to this:
    http://posthypnotic.randomstatic.net/charliehebdo/Charlie_Hebdo_article%2011.htm

    Zineb El Rhazoui wrote this (copied over in full because the pastebin version is hard to read):
    http://pastebin.com/zAB0Pv8a
    Quote
    If Charlie Is Racist Then I Am
    Zineb El Rhazoui
     
    On December 5th, I learned in the press that I have a terrible disease. The diagnosis, by Olivier Cyran on the website Article 11, is definitive: I am a racist. Being of French citizenship, I was anxious to identify, before the malady could advance any further, which races were likely to activate my white-woman antibodies. My suspicions naturally gravitated to the descendants of those exotic hordes who are said to be invading Old France to steal our bread, my bread. The Chinese? I've received no Asian complaint on this score. The blacks of Africa and elsewhere? That happens to be the color of the man I love. The drinkers of vodka? I just came back from a year's exile in Slovenia and don't especially remember being allergic to Slavic charms. Who then? "Whites"? I wouldn't venture to think Olivier Cyran could adhere to the theory of "anti-white racism." No. I didn't have to make it far into the piece to be reassured that his diagnosis was more precise: my racism, thank God (that idiot), is only aimed at Muslims, and I  contracted this dangerous syndrome from the editorial staff of Charlie Hebdo. An occupational illness, then. Because Olivier Cyran is himself a veteran of the shop, though I never had the pleasure of meeting him -- since he had the luck, and the balls, according to him, to get out before the infection could spread  through the paper -- I've decided to address him as tu, since we use tu among colleagues at Charlie.
     
    Olivier, you start from the premise that the Muslims of Azerbaijan, of Bosnia, of Malaysia, Egypt or Burkina Faso, represent a single whole that can be designated as a "race." Well, it so happens that that's the one I belong to. The fact that I'm an atheist, and proud of it? It makes no difference, since you don't ask us what we think; you talk about racism, and therefore race. I won't keep beating around the bush, since I don't doubt for a second that, like me, you perfectly understand the distinction between a religion and a race. If you make this lamentable conflation, it's because you engage in a sociological fallacy whose origins lie in the demography of France: our Muslims are most often those we call "Arabs." I'm sort of starting to understand why you speak of racism. But let's try to be precise: we're not talking about the Arabs of Lebanon, who are rarely encountered in the French projects, nor the persecuted Arab Ahwazi minority of Iran, whom nobody in France talks about, and certainly not the Arabs of Qatar who keep Louis Vuitton in business.  No, you're talking about the "Arabs" of North Africa -- and here again, it so happens that that is the "race" from which I spring. Moreover, for your information, those "Arabs" aren't always Arabs. The best-informed people in France know that they are Berbers, a word of Greek origin, "Bearded," which refers to us Amazighes, Imazighen -- Free Men, as we like to call ourselves. I am thus triply qualified to dispel the obvious confusion you manifest when you identify those you claim to be defending: the Muslim race.
     
    Muslim You Will Stay
     
    Among the individuals that you assign to this racial category, there are militant atheists like me, obviously secularist (laïque). There are atheists who have other fish to fry, they are secularists too. There are atheists who love Charlie Hebdo and support it; others less so or not at all. There are agnostics, skeptics, free-thinkers, deists; they are secularists as well. There are believers who are non-practicing but politically Islamist, practicing but secularist, or even those with "no opinion," whose daily lives do not suffer because of Charlie Hebdo. There are converts to Christianity -- and oh, are they secularist, for they've endured the terrors of theocracy in their countries of origin. And finally there are the fundamentalists (intégristes), the militant Islamists, the adherents of an identity defined above all by religion, and those are the ones you have chosen to defend. Those are the ones who, given the reality of  French laïcité, have no other choice than to cry racism, a tear in their eye and a hand on their heart, on the pretext that their "religious feelings" have been mocked by a drawing in Charlie. Among them you will find many who stand for laïcité in France but vote Ennahda in Tunisia, who do their shopping at a Parisian halal butcher but would cry scandal if an eccentric decided to open a charcuterie in Jeddah. Who are outraged when a day care center fires a veiled employee but say nothing when someone they know forces his daughter to wear the veil. They are a minority. But they are the standard to which you have chosen to align the identity of all of us.
     
    Enough generalities, which I didn't think a man of the pen needed to be reminded of. If I've taken up mine to answer you, it is not solely to defend myself from racism, but above all because in my journalist's memory I have rarely resented an opinion column as much as I did yours. If you will allow an "Arab" to address her own complaint, let me tell you that your rhetoric and arguments are the most sophisticated variety of racism that exists in France. Rare are those today who would risk shouting from the rooftops," Ragheads Out!" The extremists who would do so would immediately be jeered by you, by me, and by a majority of the French people. First of all, you quote Bernard Maris, Catherine, Charb, Caroline Fourest. What about me, what about me! You preferred to omit my name, when it was my articles that you pointed to as dangerously "Islamophobic," thus, according to you, necessarily racist. Frankly, I wondered why , and I see only two options. Either you didn't want to let Charlie Hebdo's detractors (who can only subscribe to your thinking if they never read the paper) know that the author of these racist ravings belongs precisely to the Muslim race. Or you simply didn't think that, as a person, I was worth naming, since in a fascist rag like Charlie I couldn't be anything but the house Arab. I must have been hired as an alibi, so that Charlie could hit its diversity quota, but you could never imagine that I could be brought on staff for the same reasons that you were. An Olivier, of course, is hired for his professional qualities; a Zineb is only hired by affirmative action. Or maybe you "spared" me because in my case you have no personal scores to settle, unlike a fair number of your former colleagues. In that case, I would have readers seek the motives behind your article somewhere other than the realm of ideas.
     
    Racism By Omission
     
    A Zineb who spits on Islam, that's beyond you, isn't it? It disconcerts you so much that you preferred not to name me, so as not to introduce any doubt as to the veracity of your accusations of racism against us, the journalists of Charlie. If the expression "spit on Islam" shocks you, let me answer you on that too. Why the hell is a "white person" who spits on Christianity an anticlerical, but an Arab who spits on Islam is alienated, an alibi, a house Arab, an incoherence that one would prefer not even to name? Why? Do you think that people of my race, and myself, are congenitally sealed off from the ubiquitous ideas of atheism and anticlericalism? Or is it that you think that unlike other peoples, our identity is solely structured by religion? What is left of an Arab when he no longer has Islam? To listen to you, a person like me must be some kind of harki of the Koran, we are traitors so profoundly stricken by a racial complex that we harbor a single regret, that of not being white. As for me, my interactions with Muslims and Arabs did not begin with the [1983] Marche des beurs. I'm what is called a blédarde, born in Morocco to an indigenous father and French mother. It's there that I was educated and began my career as a journalist in a weekly paper that was shut down by the regime in 2010. My colleagues from the old country can explain to you how, in 2006, the Moroccan police state, which had other scores to settle with us, organized a fake demonstration of Islamists in front of the office of the Journal Hebdo, which was accused of having published Charlie's caricatures. In reality, it was a photo of a random person seated at a café terrace holding a copy of Charlie Hebdo. I can also tell you that your piece in Article11 was posted on Moroccan websites, the same kind of sites that would never dare to poke their noses into a corruption scandal involving the King, for example. I won't hide from you that on this one you managed to make not only the Islamists happy but also the Moroccan dictatorship that forced me and several of my colleagues into exile, and which continues to harass us as traitors to the nation, henchmen of foreign powers hostile to Morocco, even to Islam. A piece like yours is worth its weight in gold to the royalist police agents, who sponsored a "dossier" against Charlie published in a gutter newspaper in Casablanca. It informs readers that, among other things, the Molotov cocktail attack on Charlie's offices in November 2011 was an insurance fraud, and that Charb drives a Ferrari thanks to all the dough we make. I don't know if you've heard from Charb since you left the pa per, but he still hasn't passed his driving test. In another Morroccan article on Charlie, I learned I'd been hired because I had slept with Caroline Fourest and that my reporting was financed by the Algerian, Spanish, Israeli secret services. Clearly a raghead can't really be hired for the same reasons as an Olivier.
    My friend, I know you have nothing to do with the whole journalistic sewer that serves the Mohammed VI dictatorship. I simply want to show you who you're making happy, if my pieces on Islam might occasionally please a few members of the FN.
    You see, Olivier, as a blédarde born in the Maghreb, assigned against my will to a religious pigeonhole, not only by you, but above all by a theocratic state that does not allow me to choose my faith and which governs my personal status by religious laws, I have always wondered why guys like you lie down before Islamist propaganda. The laws of my country do not grant me a quarter of the rights you acquired at birth, and if I were to be attacked or raped in the streets of Casablanca by a barbu, as has been promised in hundreds of emails -- never taken seriously by the Morroccan police -- the websites that posted your article will definitely say I was asking for it because I don't respect Islam. And you here in France, in a secularist state, you rehash, without grasping its implications, this whole moralizing discourse about how one must "respect Islam," as demanded by the Islamists, who do not ask whether Islam respects other religions, or other people. Why the hell should I respect Islam? Does it respect me?  The day Islam shows the slightest bit of consideration to women, first of all, and secondly toward free-thinkers, I promise you I will rethink my positions.
     
    The FN? Don't know them.
     
    It is in order to see that day come that I fight alongside all the atheists of Morrocco, Tunisia, Egypt or Palestine, not to give pleasure to the FN as you explain in your article. Because believe me, a lot of virulent atheists in the Arab world, so virulent they regularly spend time in jail for blasphemy, have never heard of Marine Le Pen, and could not possibly care if what they say pleases the French far right, because they're busy fighting their own far right: Islamism. If you will permit us, we "Islamophobes" of the Muslim race think the liberation of our societies will necessarily come through emancipation from the yoke of state religion. Since that is what Islam is more or less everywhere in the so-called Arab countries, you'll also find there a strong opposition to theocracy, which is fed not only by the universal idea of separation of church and state but also by the skepticism and historicization of Islamic texts. We permit ourselves just about anything, such as, for example, thinking that Mohammed, and even Allah, are not unrepresentable. Caricatures, parodies of Koranic verses or hadiths, you just have to look around on our internet forums to see that Charlie was not the original source on this score.
    You've got to understand us, because you see, centuries after his death Mohammed is still imposing his law. He is, in a manner of speaking, the head of state of this Umma that deprives us of our freedom of thought, and which forbids me, for example, to inherit property equally with my brothers or to marry a man of my choosing. Why would you -- you, an anti-authoritarian -- want a man with as much power as him to be exempt from critique? Because, when I speak to you of laws, I am not referring to obsolete Koranic decrees but to the positive laws in our countries, to the civil code that governs our marriages, divorces, inheritances, child custody, etc. Yes, it's Mohammed, in the name of Allah, who decides, and not us, free people who are equal to you. Let me tell you that for all these reasons, it will not be the official representatives of the Islamic denomination in Europe, whose platitudes you adopt, and who themselves take good advantage of the joys of secularism, who will fix the limits of our freedom of expression. Make no mistake, Olivier, because antiracism is on the side of Charlie Hebdo, which opens its pages to people like me who cannot speak out in their own country under penalty of prison or attack, and not on yours, you who agree to hand the entire "Muslim race" over to its self-proclaimed clergy. Charlie is aware of the intellectual and ideological ferment that is animating the Muslim world, it has understood that a war is on between freedom and politico-Islamist dictatorship, whether you date it to before or after the Arab Spring, and Charlie has quite simply chosen its camp: ours, its -- that of the anticlericals. If blasphemy is a right for the heirs of Christian civilization, why do you deny it to Muslims? Why is an Islamic state acceptable in Tunisia or Egypt, but not in France? Isn't that what racism is?
     
    The Art of Muzzling Criticism
     
    Far be it from me to force this analysis on you. While it flows logically from your reading, I wouldn't go so far as to say that you would adopt it. I've tried to uncover the reason you've fallen into such a trap, and I've found it in the fallacy that serves to cement your argument. "Headscarves, high heels, even a T-shirt made in Bangladesh, none of them matter to me when the person underneath is deserving of respect," you say in your article. The honorable philanthropic intention you show unfortunately conflates the critique of ideas with the critique of persons. Let's remember that the basis of all sound rhetoric is always to avoid the argumentum ad hominem. Inversely, to abhor an idea must never lead to its personification. Critiquing the headscarf is not the same as humiliating every woman who wears it, any more than critiquing Islam amounts to jeering every Muslim. The veiled women in my family are less sensitive than you are on this score. Even though I do not hide my aversion to the bit of fabric they wear on their heads, they understand that that it in no way detracts from the affection and respect that I have -- or don't have -- for them, for simply human reasons. In committing this fallacy, you once again adopt the arguments of the watchdogs of Islamophobia. Lacking the religious laws that are their tool of power in Muslim countries, they seize on antiracist laws in France to silence detractors of their beliefs. They are dying to have us admit that critiquing the headscarf means denying dignity to those who wear it, and therefore it's racism. Critiquing Mohammed means humiliating every Muslim on an individual basis, and therefore it's racism. That's their equation, and you, Olivier, you took the bait.
     
    Not me. Because the specter of racism that you fear -- so much so that you anoint the arguments of the Islamic far right and throw stones at your former colleagues to escape all suspicion -- I do not fear it. It is so absurd to suspect me of racism that even you prefer to suppress my name from your article, though you mentioned all the others.  As the Arab whose name you preferred not to cite, I experienced your piece as racist because you forced me, the Arab, to defend my colleagues, the whites. Why should I have more legitimacy than them to advance these ideas? Why does your article force me to bring up my name and my identity? I would have you think about that. You deny me the right to critique the religion I studied as a mandatory subject in school, from preschool to graduation, and which still today forbids me from staying in the same hotel room as my boyfriend when I want to spend a weekend in Marrakech, on the pretext that we don't have a fornication certificate signed by Mohammed. As for my colleagues at Charlie, they clearly ought to shut up, or draw Christmas trees every time they get the notion to criticize Islamic dictatorship, on the grounds that they're white. Nice definition of antiracism.
     
    If you've read nothing other than Malek Chebel, the most vulgarized exponent of Islam-the-religion-of-peace-and-love, I strongly urge you to buy a Sira book first, to get an idea of the teachings of Mohammed, and you tell me if you still think it's disgusting to critique them. Otherwise, go take a tour of the Salafist bookstores that are popping up everywhere in the Paris region, and tell me if you still think that hatred is on the side of Charlie Hebdo. Furthermore, be aware that the increase in their number over the past fifteen years or so -- the period when Charlie, you say, curiously started to take an interest in them -- in no way corresponds to any demographic explosion of Muslims in France, but rather to an ideological shift financed by petrodollars, involving a radicalized minority of Muslims.
     
    Enlightened Minds, Learn Islam!
     
    You will find many pearls in these books, such as le mariage de jouissance (Zawaj al-Mut’a). Practiced in times of war by Muslims, this unilateral marriage contract -- since it's the conquering warrior who decides -- can last an hour, two hours, or a few days, and is intended to allow Allah's fighters  to drain their balls (sorry for the vulgarity, but it's impossible to call it anything else) during their razzias. It appears that this is what happened in Syria in this byzantine story of the "sexual jihad." In your article, you quoted a piece in Charlie, of which I was the author, which addressed this subject and which you described as a "pseudo-investigation" based on an abominable Islamophobic rumor. I concede that neither you nor I were on the ground to witness the practice, given the difficult conditions of journalism in Syria at the moment. But for you it was sufficient that [Saudi preacher]Mohamad al-Arefe denied the fatwa that was attributed to him -- urging that the jihadists be resupplied with women -- for all of this to be unfounded. Do you think the FIS in Algeria, or Al-Qaeda everywhere else, needed al-Arefe in order to make use of it? You also refer to another of my articles -- again without naming me -- and quote the teaser to illustrate Charlie Hebdo's dangerous drift towards nationalism. In your view, this piece about a group of Belgian Salafists was denouncing the threat of our Christian West being invaded by barbarian Muslim hordes. "Will fries soon all be halal?" I asked. You forgot to mention that the hapless hero of my piece was a  Belgian convert named Jean-Louis, a.k.a. "le soumis." This is no issue of racism, but rather of fundamentalism. Since the article came out, the tall redhead was arrested over a recruitment cell for jihad in Syria. You would think I wasn't totally wrong to take an interest in his case.
     
    You see, Olivier, this Charlie Hebdo that was totally not racist when you were working there, but which  inexorably became so after you left it, does not need anti-racist lessons from you, and it's the Arab who's telling you so. Personally, I never worked with [Philippe] Val and I don't know if I would have been able, as you were, to listen to his encomiums to Israel, a racist and colonial state, at every editorial meeting in order to keep my job. For me, it's the pen of Charb, one of the most pro-Palestinian writers in the French press,  with which I find affinity. Charb, because of this lynching to which you are contributing through the confusion of your ideas, is today being threatened by al-Qaeda and lives under police protection. So which side is hatred on?
     
    Salutations collégiales,
    Zaynab bint Mohammad ibn al-Mâatî al-Rhazwî al-Harîzî.


    I took the above links from a discussion on a left forum
    (I've edited the rest of my comment about this out as I thought better of it)
    https://libcom.org/forums/news/charlie-hebdo-other-attacks-paris-08012015?page=5#comment-550859
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #434 - January 16, 2015, 03:12 PM

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/16/pope-francis-free-speech-charlie-hebdo

    I've been pleasantly surprised by the Guardian during this. One of the only foreign papers to donate, one of the only to hold a solidarity event in their own offices, the only British daily paper to publish the cover. Their editorial "Guardian View" provided no excuses. And they've given room on their comment section to a variety of opinions and viewpoints.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #435 - January 16, 2015, 03:16 PM

    I have noticed the same. Someone must be on vacation. Or perhaps that someone has actually begun to listen to ex-Muslim and secular Muslim (like BMSD who says "PRINT THE FUCKING CARTOONS STUPID! DON'T GIVE AN INCH!!!") voices?

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #436 - January 16, 2015, 06:08 PM

    Cartoons in response of cartoons..







    they are from Arab media in response of those from  Charlie Hebdo..

    well that is good that is how one should respond...


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #437 - January 16, 2015, 10:53 PM

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/16/pope-francis-free-speech-charlie-hebdo

    I've been pleasantly surprised by the Guardian during this. One of the only foreign papers to donate, one of the only to hold a solidarity event in their own offices, the only British daily paper to publish the cover. Their editorial "Guardian View" provided no excuses. And they've given room on their comment section to a variety of opinions and viewpoints.


    Love it.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #438 - January 16, 2015, 11:05 PM

    The pope has weighed in on the debate now.  Roll Eyes

    Pope Francis: 'Curse my mother, expect a punch'
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30838667

    It grates a little bit with me when believers say they are insulted by their gods being criticised when their god has the most appalling punishment in store for us.

    Its basically saying "You must respect my belief that god hates you and you will burn in hell forever, and I am offended if you don't".

    I also find the "It's like you offended my mother" line which you hear quite regularly. What an absurd comparison, in one moment claiming this god is all powerful and can't be harmed by any mere mortal, then next he is like a kind sweet old lady who wouldn't harm a fly. Its a tactic that tries to lay the guilt trip on the hell-bound and portray the judge as the victim.

    When it comes to  insults, there is nothing I can say that could ever be considered more insulting than "you deserve to burn in hell forever". So God threw the first stone. He started it.  

    Does god X respect, god Y and god Z? All the religions insult each others god and torture everyone else. Wasn't even Jesus supposed to killed for blasphemy? Mohammed went into the Kaaba and broke all the idols. So he didn't give their gods any respect.  Huh? It's farcical!  finmad

    If you are talking about not insulting people, then all the religions and holy books could be classed as insulting and 'hate speech' based on the punishments, both real and imaginary,  against disbelievers contained with its pages. But I think people should be entirely free in public and in the press to say that I deserve to be tortured in an imaginary hell forever.

    There is a Christian man outside my train station on the way to work who stands on a soap box with a sign and a megaphone saying that disbelievers will go to hell. I walk on right past and I even politely pick up a leaflet from him sometimes. People just walk right on past him. I wish him no harm, and it doesn't make me angry with him, but it does make me sad.  Cry But what saddens me even more is when people I love hold this belief too, but are just too nice and polite to confront it and tell me to my face, because they know it is horrid, and I think we need to demonstrate to people  that when they actually think about it, they are better than their god. But no doubt, some will still take false offense at the compliment.  Roll Eyes Sigh

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #439 - January 16, 2015, 11:25 PM

    @Adey5

    Check out the Guardian article I linked above, it's a response to him.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #440 - January 17, 2015, 12:07 AM

    In the latest The New Yorker:
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #441 - January 17, 2015, 03:03 AM

    The pope has weighed in on the debate now.  Roll Eyes

    Pope Francis: 'Curse my mother, expect a punch'
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30838667

    It grates a little bit with me when believers say they are insulted by their gods being criticised when their god has the most appalling punishment in store for us.

    Its basically saying "You must respect my belief that god hates you and you will burn in hell forever, and I am offended if you don't".

    I also find the "It's like you offended my mother" line which you hear quite regularly. What an absurd comparison, in one moment claiming this god is all powerful and can't be harmed by any mere mortal, then next he is like a kind sweet old lady who wouldn't harm a fly. Its a tactic that tries to lay the guilt trip on the hell-bound and portray the judge as the victim.

    When it comes to  insults, there is nothing I can say that could ever be considered more insulting than "you deserve to burn in hell forever". So God threw the first stone. He started it.  

    Does god X respect, god Y and god Z? All the religions insult each others god and torture everyone else. Wasn't even Jesus supposed to killed for blasphemy? Mohammed went into the Kaaba and broke all the idols. So he didn't give their gods any respect.  Huh? It's farcical!  finmad

    If you are talking about not insulting people, then all the religions and holy books could be classed as insulting and 'hate speech' based on the punishments, both real and imaginary,  against disbelievers contained with its pages. But I think people should be entirely free in public and in the press to say that I deserve to be tortured in an imaginary hell forever.

    There is a Christian man outside my train station on the way to work who stands on a soap box with a sign and a megaphone saying that disbelievers will go to hell. I walk on right past and I even politely pick up a leaflet from him sometimes. People just walk right on past him. I wish him no harm, and it doesn't make me angry with him, but it does make me sad.  Cry But what saddens me even more is when people I love hold this belief too, but are just too nice and polite to confront it and tell me to my face, because they know it is horrid, and I think we need to demonstrate to people  that when they actually think about it, they are better than their god. But no doubt, some will still take false offense at the compliment.  Roll Eyes Sigh


    Yeah, that ¨turn the other cheek¨ thing is a lie. I knew it.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #442 - January 17, 2015, 07:41 AM

    that ¨turn the other cheek¨ thing is a lie.

    I'm not so sure. I think the Pope's a kuffar.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #443 - January 17, 2015, 12:51 PM

    Will the claims of Joseph Smith (Mormons) and L Ron Hubbard (Scientology) also be immune from lampooning?

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #444 - January 17, 2015, 12:52 PM

    @Adey5

    Check out the Guardian article I linked above, it's a response to him.


    Thanks Amoku, cant disagree with much there.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #445 - January 17, 2015, 01:05 PM

    Last year "Our Dear Leader" Mr Kim Jong Un was horribly lampooned on the poster in a window of a barber shop. A highly provocative poster upsetting millions of North Koreans and provoking two state officials to pay the barber shop a "little visit" and request they take it down, which the barbers refused to do.

    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/nkorea-complains-over-barbers-kim-jong-un-poster

    Will any new legislation covering limits freedom of speech also extend to him too?

    If any laws are passed I think every religion should then also apply for protected status against satire, from Scientology's Xenu the intergalactic warlord, to the Jedi's Yoda, all the way to the Flying Spaghetti Monster (May You Be Touched By His Noodly Appendage).

    Perhaps then the absurdity of this issue will be highlighted for all to see.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #446 - January 17, 2015, 06:05 PM


    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #447 - January 17, 2015, 06:46 PM

    Now they are rioting all over Pakistan and Niger.
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #448 - January 17, 2015, 07:09 PM

    Oh Fuck! looks like the Christians are bearing the full brunt of the violence.  Cry when it was atheists who drew the cartoons anyway.  Talk about a knee-jerk reaction. Seems they are looking for any excuse to attack anyone not muslim.  It's almost as if they enjoy having their religion mocked.

    No doubt the cartoonists will get blamed for the violence. 


    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
     Reply #449 - January 17, 2015, 07:39 PM

    @Adey5

    Check out the Guardian article I linked above, it's a response to him.


    And here another in a similar vein.

    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120785/pope-francis-charlie-hebdo-remarks-miss-our-right-offend-religion

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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