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 Topic: jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?

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  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     OP - January 10, 2015, 07:48 PM

    Paris happened then reports of up to 2000 people killed by Boko Haram.

    Just seen reports of a suicide bombing in Lebanon and another suicide bombing in Nigeria.

    Is it right or wrong to join the dots and look at it as a global jihadi insurgency? That whilst not co-ordinated in any formal sense, but in a collective sense, from Asia to Africa to Middle East to Europe, to varying intensities, with proximate local accelerants and causes, we are not looking at the big picture, that the ideas of Salafi Jihadism are basically at war with the established order, against Muslims and non Muslims?

    Is it wrong to look at things in these terms, to look at them as ideologically simultaneous, and join the dots?
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #1 - January 10, 2015, 07:52 PM
    I just saw one near or in Rawalpindi, at an event for Eid Miladun Nabi. First the Christians, then the Ahmadiyya, now the rest..
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Re: jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #2 - January 10, 2015, 08:02 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 10, 2015, 07:48 PM
    Paris happened then reports of up to 2000 people killed by Boko Haram.

    Just seen reports of a suicide bombing in Lebanon and another suicide bombing in Nigeria.

    Is it right or wrong to join the dots and look at it as a global jihadi insurgency? That whilst not co-ordinated in any formal sense, but in a collective sense, from Asia to Africa to Middle East to Europe, to varying intensities, with proximate local accelerants and causes, we are not looking at the big picture, that the ideas of Salafi Jihadism are basically at war with the established order, against Muslims and non Muslims?

    Is it wrong to look at things in these terms, to look at them as ideologically simultaneous, and join the dots?


    No, I think it is just common sense to look for patterns and links. I always attributed it to Saudi wealth pushing the Al Saud certified take on Islam, and that they spun it out so far that it got away from them and is now doubling back to bite them.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #3 - January 10, 2015, 08:12 PM
    Quote from: three on January 10, 2015, 07:52 PM
    I just saw one near or in Rawalpindi, at an event for Eid Miladun Nabi. ..................

    what??  

    Hello three .. did You see that tragedy??  were you/ are  in Rawalpindi??

     http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28001.0
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #4 - January 10, 2015, 08:22 PM
    Quote from: three on January 10, 2015, 08:02 PM
    No, I think it is just common sense to look for patterns and links. I always attributed it to Saudi wealth pushing the Al Saud certified take on Islam, and that they spun it out so far that it got away from them and is now doubling back to bite them.


    So basically there has always been an aspect of Islam that harked back to the glories of jihad and so on. Wahabism took its cue from Ibn Thamiyya, but it was Saudi Arabia funding Wahabism internationally in the latter half of the 20th Century onwards and various other geo-political / ideological factors (including Maududi in Pakistan and Qutb in middle-east and also after 1979 to counter the Shia ascendancy post revolution Iran) that planted these seeds that are now blooming.

    Saudi Arabia has its ideological fingerprints on this.

    Is this a reasonable joining of the dots, or at least a start?
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #5 - January 10, 2015, 08:35 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on January 10, 2015, 08:12 PM
    what??  

    Hello three .. did You see that tragedy??  were you/ are  in Rawalpindi??

     http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28001.0


    Na, na, sorry Yeezevee. I meant I saw it on social media.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #6 - January 10, 2015, 08:42 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 10, 2015, 08:22 PM
    So basically there has always been an aspect of Islam that harked back to the glories of jihad and so on. Wahabism took its cue from Ibn Thamiyya, but it was Saudi Arabia funding Wahabism internationally in the latter half of the 20th Century onwards and various other geo-political / ideological factors (including Maududi in Pakistan and Qutb in middle-east and also after 1979 to counter the Shia ascendancy post revolution Iran) that planted these seeds that are now blooming.

    Saudi Arabia has its ideological fingerprints on this.

    Is this a reasonable joining of the dots, or at least a start?


    I would say so. Then also, as you mentioned previously, that there is a greater awareness now of the life of the Prophet and the actual words of Quran. Due to education, due to the push to learn Arabic, due to.. everything. With a steady pressure from Saudi Arabia to further this.  But I like to blame it all on the Saudi government. It's a convenient scapegoat, a common one.

    It is just so nightmarish now, with terror, that it makes the days of the village headman/Imam sounding out the Quran and giving his own peaceful interpretation of it (of course you want your villagers to be peaceful) look rosy. But then I remember that Partition happened without much influence from Saudi Arabia (I assume) and I despair.   
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #7 - January 10, 2015, 08:43 PM
    There has always been a strong undercurrent of 'Jihadi' ideology and activity in Islam since its inception. To look at the current climate/events and say that it's just a pattern of history is myopic.

    Islam is in trouble. it is imploding. There are strong anti-Islamic sentiments within both the non-Muslim and Muslim communities. Prior to the internet and globalisation Muslims could live in a relatively dreamy black-and-white world of us and them. However, the barriers that once divided the Muslim world from the non-Muslim world are fast eroding and even Muslims are calling for reform (at times calling for a 'moritorium' on certain injunctions and principles in Islam) and their voices are becoming increasingly prominent. This has agitated traditionalists.

    Not to mention the fact that with increased good governance (people seeking demoncratic means as a form of representation) since the 80's, to better health care and the advancement of womens rights many traditionally held practices are being turned on their head. As people are better educated and increasingly liberal they ebgin to question traditional structures of patriarchy and the oligarchy/tyranny of the few who wish to dictate and monitor the actions of the massses. Ahmadi, Shi'ite and other minority groups are coming to the fore and accentuating the existing fissures within the Ummah. It is crippling and civil war is on the way.

    That's not even mentioning the technology that has allowed networks to communicate with one another and plan deadly atrocities. Conversely, it allows opponents to rapidly use social media to express their disgust against terrorist groups and their actions thus further cementing the divide and agitating one another.

    Add to this the apocalyptic nature of many of the Qur'anic verses and Hadith about the End Days and you can better understand the sudden surge in Jihadist activity. It is here that history and postmodernity share an unholy alliance.

    On a sociological level, various terrorist cells/fringe groups will take inspiration from others. Thus, groups that may have been left dorman and reluctant to carry out acts may find confidence and follow suit from other terrorist organisations. This happened during the liberation of India, when disparate principalities heard of revolts against the ruling elite and followed suite. It happened during the 60's and 70's with left-wing terrorists. It also happened in Northern Ireland, espcially in the 80's. It has been happening for quite some time now with Islam.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #8 - January 10, 2015, 08:50 PM
    I think Jedi probably has the right of it. Much as I would like to, I cannot blame Saudi Arabia for everything. If the Al Saud were overthrown right now, would it stop? Nope. It's not their juggernaut.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #9 - January 10, 2015, 09:00 PM
    @ three Saudia Arabia may have created a monster it cannot contain. Monarchies and excessive wealth are harram. The Jihadist know this and are just biding their time. The House of Saud will fall and Mecca will swim with the blood of their fellow Muslim brothers and sisters. I see this as inevitable, unfortunately.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #10 - January 10, 2015, 09:00 PM
    who will take their place?
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #11 - January 10, 2015, 09:03 PM
    The United Natiions Peacekeeping force?

    They will replace the tyranny of the Saudis with that of their own.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #12 - January 10, 2015, 09:10 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on January 10, 2015, 09:00 PM
    @ three Saudia Arabia may have created a monster it cannot contain. Monarchies and excessive wealth are harram. The Jihadist know this and are just biding their time. The House of Saud will fall and Mecca will swim with the blood of their fellow Muslim brothers and sisters. I see this as inevitable, unfortunately.


    But even that will not stop the ¨cleansing¨ (Cultural Revolution, anyone?). Their monster has it's roots in Divinity, in the canonical text, and so by bringing it to light, they merely fed it first. I see it as inevitable, too.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #13 - January 10, 2015, 09:13 PM
    Yes, you're right. The extremists will battle it out amongst themselves.

    Ummah my arse.  Roll Eyes
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #14 - January 10, 2015, 09:22 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on January 10, 2015, 09:03 PM
    The United Natiions Peacekeeping force?

    They will replace the tyranny of the Saudis with that of their own.


    whoever has the keys to the Holy Mosques has claim to be custodian of Islam. If the House of Saud goes, someone will want to take their place and have that status.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • jihadism - is it right to join the international dots?
     Reply #15 - January 10, 2015, 09:22 PM
    It won't be the UN. I vote the Hashemites back in.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
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