Something is cooking in the Muslim world...

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Something is cooking in the Muslim world...
OP - January 20, 2015, 10:59 PM

I see friends who identify as Muslims share stuff like this on Facebook. Not many Danish Muslims, unfortunately (that would be betrayal against the tribe), but Muslims of Pakistani, Arab and probably Berber background:Original thread here

Quote
Quran: Some statistics

52% of the Quran is an expression of contempt against the infidels.17% of it deals with Allah.15% of the text deals with believers/non-believers.12% is about the day of judgment/day of doom.

And 4% of the verses are about the rights of other Muslims and good deeds (Haqooq-ul-ibad).
In Mecca an astounding 67% of the text is devoted to the infidel. In Medina 51% is about the infidel. The amount of text in the entire Koran devoted to infidels and non-believers is 61%."

When we compare the relative size of the Quran vis-à-vis Sira( Ibn Ishaq) we find that Allah is about 14% of the total sacred text. Sunna (Prophet Mohammed's words and deeds) on the other hand is 86% of the total.

In addition, the Koran does not contain enough information to practice even one of the Five Pillars of Islam. Five time prayer,2.5% of the income/assets to be given as zakat, the mode of keeping a fast, the modalities of Haj and Jehad. Even the Kalima is not there in the Quran.

Only the Sunna(primarily the Hadith for religious practice) tells the Muslim how to worship. So the statistical measure shows that Islam is primarily what Prophet Mohammad supposedly said and practiced.

It is also interesting to note that the hadis of “Bukhari” gives all of the tactical details of jihad. A simple counting method shows that 3% of the hadis are about the inner struggle, whereas, 97% of the hadis are about jihad as war.

So does jihad refer to the inner struggle? Yes, 3%.

Is jihad the war against infidels? Yes, 97%.
Waseem Altaf

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Reply #1 - January 20, 2015, 11:14 PM

Haven't checked the percentages, but it sounds about right.

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Reply #2 - January 20, 2015, 11:35 PM

Quote from: Nikolaj on January 20, 2015, 10:59 PM
Quran: Some statistics

52% of the Quran is an expression of contempt against the infidels.17% of it deals with Allah.15% of the text deals with believers/non-believers.12% is about the day of judgment/day of doom.

And 4% of the verses are about the rights of other Muslims and good deeds (Haqooq-ul-ibad).
In Mecca an astounding 67% of the text is devoted to the infidel. In Medina 51% is about the infidel. The amount of text in the entire Koran devoted to infidels and non-believers is 61%."

When we compare the relative size of the Quran vis-à-vis Sira( Ibn Ishaq) we find that Allah is about 14% of the total sacred text. Sunna (Prophet Mohammed's words and deeds) on the other hand is 86% of the total.

In addition, the Koran does not contain enough information to practice even one of the Five Pillars of Islam. Five time prayer,2.5% of the income/assets to be given as zakat, the mode of keeping a fast, the modalities of Haj and Jehad. Even the Kalima is not there in the Quran.

Only the Sunna(primarily the Hadith for religious practice) tells the Muslim how to worship. So the statistical measure shows that Islam is primarily what Prophet Mohammad supposedly said and practiced.

It is also interesting to note that the hadis of “Bukhari” gives all of the tactical details of jihad. A simple counting method shows that 3% of the hadis are about the inner struggle, whereas, 97% of the hadis are about jihad as war.

So does jihad refer to the inner struggle? Yes, 3%.

Is jihad the war against infidels? Yes, 97%.

Good to see Muslims discussing this.
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Reply #3 - January 20, 2015, 11:43 PM

And yes I agree - something is cooking in the Muslim world - change is afoot.
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Reply #4 - January 21, 2015, 12:19 AM

What is the believers/non-believers section referring to?

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

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Reply #5 - January 21, 2015, 07:46 AM

Ugh, would love to share this on my facebook, but I have all my family on there so wouldn't be a good idea. But something is definitely happening!

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Reply #6 - January 21, 2015, 08:44 AM

87% of statistics are made up

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

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Reply #7 - January 21, 2015, 03:58 PM

46% of beer sold in Japan isn't beer.
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Reply #8 - January 21, 2015, 08:26 PM

Quote from: moi on January 21, 2015, 08:44 AM
87% of statistics are made up

Interestingly, that's the exact number of studies that show that actual numbers aren't any more useful than the ones you make up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEBvCLevBBQ

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Reply #9 - January 28, 2015, 03:51 PM

If I understand Islam correctly, which I probably don't, it seems to me that the structure of Islam is such that if things are changing it won't be Islam any more.
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Reply #10 - January 28, 2015, 03:55 PM

Quote from: shootist on January 28, 2015, 03:51 PM
If I understand Islam correctly, which I probably don't,

hello shootist don't worry., you are not an exception in NOT understanding Islam correctly., well no one understands Islam correctly and that goes to 1000s of millions of Muslims and 1000s of millions of non-Muslims..

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it seems to me that the structure of Islam is such that if things are changing it won't be Islam any more.

well, that is a very critical point of Islam but why would you say that?? and what do you actually mean by 'STRUCTURE OF ISLAM"??

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #11 - January 28, 2015, 04:26 PM

As a Christian you would seem to be free to pick and choose what parts you are going to follow, from strict RC through 7th day Adventists, to, well, who knows how many. While I think they're as dappy as the rest, the good that the Salvation Army does every day is immense.

But, as far as Islam is concerned it seems to require a level of absolute belief in the Koran, and most of the other stuff that goes with it. You can be Christian and accept that Noah's Ark was a folk tale, and that some of the other tales in the Bible are likewise. But you can't pick and choose with the Koran.

Or perhaps I'm wrong. But it does seem that someone who picks and chooses only the parts of Islam he likes is, by denying some parts, is denying it all.
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Reply #12 - January 28, 2015, 05:27 PM

Quote from: shootist on January 28, 2015, 04:26 PM
~~As a Christian you would seem to be free to pick and choose what parts you are going to follow,~~ .......................

Or perhaps I'm wrong. .................

yes.. shootist....yes.. you are indeed wrong., and you got that right. You are right, absolutely right in saying that "perhaps I'm wrong"

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #13 - January 28, 2015, 05:33 PM

Would you care to expand on that and help me understand why I am wrong? Or are you just getting off on telling me I'm wrong?
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Reply #14 - January 28, 2015, 05:42 PM

Quote from: shootist on January 28, 2015, 05:33 PM
Would you care to expand on that and help me understand why I am wrong?

well I read many of your recent posts and on top of it you are agreeing that "perhaps you are wrong" so I supported your Idea..
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Or are you just getting off on telling me I'm wrong?

No..No shootist., I am not just getting off to tell you "You are wrong" I am reading you., And in time I will tell you where you are going wrong about Islam but for now there is so much to do., so much wine and beer to drink.,

So please read more of yeezevee and may be you should also ask that Pakistani Sufi friend of yours about "where you are going wrong on Islam".. he may also explain you.. Please continue for now..

with best wishes
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #15 - January 28, 2015, 06:35 PM

Thanks for the clarification. The chap I worked with I haven't seen for a few years. We were just work colleagues. I would hesitate to tell anyone who is a true believer in their faith where to find arguments against it. Mainly because it has been my experience that believers will hold their belief against outside influences come what may. Only when they start to think the unthinkable does anything change.

While I would be grateful for any good information on Islam as a religion I am more concerned about the current reality (as it appears to me) of the Islamic world. There seems to be little relevance in what Muslim scholar said about making the devil fart, or the exact interpretation of a particular Arabic word. It makes me imagine a crowd of passengers arguing over exactly how the Titanic managed to navigate into an Iceberg while ignoring the fact that the ship is sinking and there aren't enough lifeboats.

Ever onwards.
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Reply #16 - January 29, 2015, 01:24 AM

Quote from: shootist on January 28, 2015, 03:51 PM
If I understand Islam correctly, which I probably don't, it seems to me that the structure of Islam is such that if things are changing it won't be Islam any more.

Christianity eventually came around to understanding that the Gospels' anti-Jewish commentary - of which exists much - was a result of still-Judaeo-Christian Christianity coming to terms with still-not-quite-defined post-Temple Judaism. Modern Christianity has made great effort especially after WW2 to fence off this anti-Judaism and to understand what Jews are all about.

If Gabriel Said Reynolds is right, and I think he mostly is, then the Qur'an is (or at least contains) a collection of Arabic sermons from one sect of Christians against (mostly) Catholicism (= Orthodoxy back then). Or - in my opinion - the suras speak for several sects of Christians, and maybe even some Jews, against several other sects, with alliances always shifting. We are, after all, dealing with Near Easterners here

That would explain the density of polemic. It would also explain sura 5's asides that, whilst there may be some disputes between this sect or that, at least we can all agree about those damned Jews and polytheists.

-> so, as to what this implies for Islam: Reynolds, at least, is hoping for a reform in Islam which pulls that faith into becoming something more like a school-of-thought within Catholicism. He's been appealing to the Shi'a especially. At least, so I've gathered from his Twitter.

--> Also, I'm not sure that Reynolds will succeed in his aim. What I *am* sure of is that Reynolds is moonlighting. His day-job is scholarship in Islam. He's not a talking-head and he's not a President. Personal politics is fine - like @ssh0les, everyone has some - but politics has/have an inherent danger of infecting one's scholarship.
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