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Theme Changer

 Topic: Klingschor: I've been radicalised

 (Read 21535 times)
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  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #30 - February 10, 2015, 08:10 PM

    I think everyone goes through periods of that kind of soul-searching. For me, my view of morality is grounded in empathy, in the golden rule or reciprocity: I try as much as possible to put myself in others' shoes. It's not always accurate because I don't have full access to anyone else's experiences or thoughts, but at least if I have this as my foundation, I am flexible about it. When new information comes to me about how my view might be inaccurate or harmful to others, I try to re-evaluate my position and modify it to encompass a larger and more diverse perspective. It's an ongoing thing. Most important, IMO, is to keep learning & stay humble and not start thinking we know everything about everything and have nothing new to learn.

    It is important to face criticism even when it hurts. It's supposed to hurt a little, otherwise it's not really 'criticism'. Even in the most hurtful criticism, often there's something we need to learn, some kind of blind spot being pointed out to us. Many people criticize not to improve others but to make themselves feel superior to others. It takes a certain amount of thick skin + experience + a detachment from your own ego, to really be able to learn from criticism. As much as possible, when criticizing others, it's a good idea to argue about ideas or actions instead of attacking the person. Unless of course a person is really there just to hurt others & has no empathy themselves.

    Ideas are fine-tuned when confronted with criticism. I have learned so much about myself and my thoughts have been clarified to me via those who've criticized them. Sometimes, it IS important to let go of old thoughts and beliefs. There's no shame in learning, growing as a person. Other times, the ideas need tweaking but are basically sound.

    Yep you used it correctly in most places Smiley
    It's = "It is" (It's cold outside)
    Its = possessive (Read its ingredients)


    Empathy does sound like a good basis for morality, however I'm not positive that I experience "true" empathy. I believe I'm probably a psychopath, although female psychopathy is nothing like male psychopathy which is why it is so incredibly under-diagnosed. I think female psychopathy is actually more prevalent than male psychopathy. But female psychopaths are almost never violent, which leads to the under-diagnosis.

    Here's my hypothesis as to why: female mammals have a separate instinct, a "maternal instinct", that keeps them from committing violent acts even though they feel no empathy, which is why they are so rarely diagnosed as psychopaths. Even when women do harm others, especially their children, the reason is very rarely psychopathy; it is usually another disease, such as post-partum depression. I believe that female psychopaths usually retain this separate maternal instinct. I think that this separation between an instinct to care for your children and empathy makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint. We were mammals before we were social animals. There have been mammals for about 215 million years, but we have only lived in social groups for about 52 million years.

    As soon as we developed a need to feed our young, we needed an instinct to make sure we'd do that. Those early mammals that didn't feed and care for their young didn't have offspring that survived into the next generation, so this instinct would have developed quickly and spread rapidly in the population. But mammalian males didn't usually need to care for their offspring, so they wouldn't have needed this instinct. When we started living in groups about 52 million years ago, we would have needed to develop the instincts that rule our social interactions, including empathy.

    If these two instincts did in fact evolve separately, it would make sense that one could be broken in an individual and it would not automatically cause the other to malfunction, because there'd be no reason for them to be connected either in the brain or genetically, even though they perform similar functions. So this would help explain why female psychopaths are so rarely violent criminals: they still feel the need to care for others, although this is not caused by feeling empathy for others.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #31 - February 10, 2015, 08:26 PM

    It makes sense that somebody might turn to a secularized theology like Marxism after losing faith in a traditional reactionary theology.  Often the collapse of a 'traditional' communal identity leaves people looking for a replacement communal identity, and that replacement often is one of the Enlightenment era political ideologies that emerged out of theological ancestors.  Humanism, positivism, Marxism, etc.  The alternative tends to be more individualist forms of identity.

    Auguste Comte's "Religion of Humanity" really shows the genealogical phenomenon in its clearest form.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auguste_Comte

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_of_Humanity

    This was picked up and developed by Marxists as Left Hegelianism, with a secular theology justified by scientific pretensions.  But the Right Hegelians, exemplified by Max Stirner, show the alternative individualist side.

    At some level, all human identity is built from haphazard foundations of evolutionary design, individual circumstances, and contingent history.  This is why 'total' theories of human politics tend towards the absurdity ... they don't grapple with the complexity of actual human beings, instead trying to overwrite them with reductive abstractions about abstract Humanity.  But humans are no ants.


    I'm not a 'Marxist' though I find Marxian analyses to often be solid, but I don't agree with his conclusions or 'solutions'. I.e. I agree exploitation exists; but I don't agree that collectivising it is more helpful than ignoring it. I am more of a social democrat - pro human rights, pro-immigration, pro workers-rights, pro gender equality in all aspects, pro racial equality in all aspects, anti-war in general, anti-violence in general (self defense is tricky as almost everyone thinks their side's violence is justified under 'self defense' so this is an issue that's not black and white and I look at it on a case by case basis).

    Some people do make a religion out of Marxism or collectivism at the expense of individual rights and agency. Others make a religion out of hyper-individualism at the expense of any socio-economic contexts. Reality is that we are all both parts of larger systems AND have individual rights and agency. To ignore either aspect of human life limits understanding how and why people behave the way they do.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #32 - February 10, 2015, 09:39 PM

    I thought everyone had heard about intersectionality by now....

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #33 - February 10, 2015, 09:52 PM

    I'm not a 'Marxist' ...................




    lol.. allat is angry.. so let  me add Chomsky tube to make everybody more angry..  Cheesy


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_jRd59qy0A

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsC0q3CO6lM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMdBTqZhJC4

    that is Old and young Chomsky

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #34 - February 11, 2015, 12:39 AM

    I agree there is a diversity of political views among Ex-Muslims and atheists in general. There definitely does not need to be a homogenous view among either group. What I'm saying is that those of us who ARE on the left of the political spectrum on other issues like poverty, exploitation, racism, should do more than just throw stones at the bogeyman of "The Left". We should realize we are also part of "The Left" and the fact that so many of us ARE talking about Ex-Muslim issues shows that the left is not silent about it. The relativist types of lefties who ignore the issues Ex-Muslims face do not own the left. It's huge, diverse and we are as much as part of it as them and should step up to the plate and join common causes along with talking about our own issues, lest we be just as narcissistic and self-absorbed as the worst types on the far left or the far right.


    Yeah.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #35 - February 11, 2015, 12:59 AM

    Slightly tangential, maybe, but I do honestly think that most liberals (at least where I am) who defend Islam and all that are doing it unwittingly in an attempt to protect what is one of society's most vilified people.

    For most of them, a little awareness of the situation on a less superficial level is the only thing keeping them from supporting ex-Muslims and separating the defense of the people from defense of the religion. So a more friendly approach would probably go a long way on all fronts.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #36 - February 11, 2015, 01:16 AM

    Irony here being that zaotar and allat's (post-structural) approach is just as theological as the college marxist. If ex-muslims want to progress then they have to dispense with these infantile Spinozian worldviews unless they want to continue to deduce everything geometrically. *bangs head*

    and I'd disagree that there was a clear left/right hegelian divide. Marx was one of the few people who understood the old man. Hegel was commenting on labour and the state since 1804, and reading of geist into prussian absolutism is an academic reduction that has no basis in his work. There's a reason why Lenin once claimed that one cannot begin to understand the first chapter of capital without thoroughly studying Hegel's science of logic. Even geist should not be approximated with God, as any detailed reading of his lectures on history would show.

    Do your fucking homework before complaining that people are alienated from this forum.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #37 - February 11, 2015, 01:28 AM

    I thought everyone had heard about intersectionality by now....


     Afro I don't think many understand it well, TBH. Here's a sort of simplified graphic explaining it that I found online:


    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #38 - February 11, 2015, 01:44 AM

    Slightly tangential, maybe, but I do honestly think that most liberals (at least where I am) who defend Islam and all that are doing it unwittingly in an attempt to protect what is one of society's most vilified people.


    Not tangential at all. It is quite obvious that after 9/11, there was a major upsurge in anti-Muslim bigotry. Some people used that as an opportunistic method to create their careers peddling Islamism. Others used that sentiment as an opportunistic method to create their careers peddling right wing nationalistic groups like the US Tea Party, the EDL, BNP, nowadays, Pegida, etc.

    The average, non-media personality, non-career leftist, regular Jack or Jill liberal-leftist in the US and Canada, and other Western countries, is not sitting there strategizing and scheming to keep Ex-Muslims down. They're not sitting there trying to help Islamists. To them, Islamism is a distant problem. Christian bigotry is much closer to home (especially in the US, e.g.). Secular institutions exploit and abuse people all the time, e.g. police forces, schools, governments, corporations. These are more immediate issues for most liberal-leftists in the West, and they really are more pressing for more people. These issues also affect us Ex-Muslims when we go out there in the world, get jobs, buy homes, get involved, pay attention to, and vote in local and state politics near us, have to deal with police or legal systems etc.

    For most of them, a little awareness of the situation on a less superficial level is the only thing keeping them from supporting ex-Muslims and separating the defense of the people from defense of the religion. So a more friendly approach would probably go a long way on all fronts.


    Agreed 100%.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #39 - February 11, 2015, 04:20 AM

    Slightly tangential, maybe, but I do honestly think that most liberals (at least where I am) who defend Islam and all that are doing it unwittingly in an attempt to protect what is one of society's most vilified people.

    For most of them, a little awareness of the situation on a less superficial level is the only thing keeping them from supporting ex-Muslims and separating the defense of the people from defense of the religion. So a more friendly approach would probably go a long way on all fronts.


    *inserts like button* I do think this is a big motivating factor for a lot of people, and it's not that they don't support ex-Muslims, it's that they're not really as aware of them as they could be. Since not every apostate, and in the countries where these liberals live, even fewer apostates, are facing death or serious bodily harm, they don't believe that Islam should be demonized in the cases where people are facing death or bodily harm.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #40 - February 11, 2015, 09:26 AM

    To them, Islamism is a distant problem. Christian bigotry is much closer to home (especially in the US, e.g.). Secular institutions exploit and abuse people all the time, e.g. police forces, schools, governments, corporations. These are more immediate issues for most liberal-leftists in the West, and they really are more pressing for more people.


    Yes, exactly! It's just not on anyone's radar here, but a lot of things are. Any of my non-Muslim friends I've discussed these issues with seemed to be hearing everything for the first time, and for the few that I spoke to, it was mind-blowing.

    I think one of the greatest things about this forum and the people who promote it is that they are bringing these issues to a wider audience. When someone who has wrapped up the defense of Islam with their desire to protect the downtrodden come by CEMB/any related places, if they can see the issue clearly laid out, if we've taken pains to avoid distracting them or having them dismiss us by sounding too antagonistic and confrontational, if they can see the human face and read the stories of people who are in trouble and need advocates and realize that we are facing all of these issues together, we'll be golden.

    We're mocked as bleeding hearts for a reason! Grin


    Also, thanks, gal. Smiley
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #41 - February 13, 2015, 01:38 PM

    Quote
    Moral realism is indefensible


    I just spat my water out, the above is absolute fucking bollocks...wow.

    Even as an error theorist I recognise that there are arguments for moral realism.

    Here are two strong defences of said position:



    Many believe that objective morality requires a theistic foundation. I maintain that there are sui generis objective ethical facts that do not reduce to natural or supernatural facts. On my view, objective morality does not require an external foundation of any kind. After explaining my view, I defend it against a variety of objections posed by William Wainwright, William Lane Craig and J.P.Moreland.


    The metaethical stance of moral realism is clearly defensible.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #42 - March 09, 2015, 05:32 AM

    I don't know Klingschor all that much, and can't speak for him. But here's what I have noticed in the last several years that I've been part of the Ex-Muslim movement (as an admin here, and as an active part of other Ex-Muslim groups too).

    There has been a particular brand of anarcho-capitalist/libertarian dogma that has overtaken much of the 'atheist' movement and has coloured some/many of the people active in Ex-Muslim atheist movement too. (I'm talking about a US-style libertarianism that is pro imperialism, pro war, pro guns, pro capitalism, neo liberal etc. from where it gets its notions of individualized liberties which is a concept then applied on to religion and other things like sexuality and drug use). This seems to me to be an underlying assumption of the framework in which many/most of the 'new atheists' and the supposed 'leaders' of that movement have been operating. So, we're talking all the major players (almost all white men, except for Ayaan Hirsi Ali) that have become icons (in the somewhat religious sense) for many in the atheist movement.

    This libertarian influence HAS pushed way too much of this movement to the right-wing. And I am not comfortable with it anymore. I have not been comfortable with the level of right-wing ideology that has been underpinning a lot of the atheists out there. There is little if ANY awareness or discussion about poverty, economic factors, racism, nationalism, colonialist legacies and ongoing capitalist exploitations, and other factors. The people in the 'atheist movement' who really can't see anything beyond religion as being a factor in anyone's behaviour are literally becoming as dogmatic as the most dogmatic believers (even if they're not as physically violent). Those factors ARE important and DO hold an ENORMOUS influence on how people process and apply religion in their lives. Yes transnational religious identity politics are a big factor, but they are not the only or even the biggest factor. If they were, why the hell was there no ISIS or Al-Qaeda or Taliban before 1950s? Yes Islamic empires existed. But anyone who really does not question why these extremist groups are happening NOW and getting WORSE now beyond "Oh it's just religion" is really really really deluded.

    I am also sick and tired of mostly Ex-Muslims, but also atheists in general, whining and whining and whining about how the "LEFT" doesn't listen to us. How the "LEFT" doesn't help us, doesn't do this, doesn't do that....

    1: THERE IS NO CENTRAL AUTHORITY ON THE LEFT. Who the hell are we whining about? The Guardian newspaper? Ok... BE SPECIFIC. The Guardian does NOT bloody represent the "LEFT", not outside the UK especially or even in the UK. It is only ONE paper and it does publish things critical of religion too. So I'd love it if we Ex-Muslims (and our allies) would stop acting and whining about 'THE LEFT" like some bogeyman that is united in some way and obeys some central authority. Yes there are people on "THE LEFT" who haven't given us all the attention we want for our cause. But generally, it's because either they are themselves totally self-involved and narcissistic, or, more often because:

    2: NOBODY ON 'THE LEFT' OWES US A DAMN THING. The Left, as it is, has always been more concerned about CHANGE, about EXPLOITATION, about LABOUR, RACE, GENDER, etc. If all that we ever do is talk about religion, religion, religion and NOTHING else, why the hell do we expect people who are fighting battles on those other issues to give us all their attention? WHY don't WE talk about those other issues? WHY ARE WE ONE TRICK PONIES? We have the privilege of not having to worry about money, racism, etc. (Well, many of us I guess have those privileges, but not all of us). We all are mostly situated comfortably in the West. We don't have to worry about immigrating, being homeless, being targeted for gender or race crimes (not the way that many, many others in the world in many places ARE). So we talk a lot about religion. It's our hobby. Nothing wrong with that. But we are not bloody entitled to be the centre of people's attention if we NEVER engage with any topics that are outside of our privileged lives. If we only focus on religion and never on any other matters that people on "The Left" are engaging with, then we don't really have a lot of leg to stand and whine on, I'm sorry to say.

    I think it's time for the Ex-Muslim movement to grow up. To join up with other Leftist causes and issues. To join up with progressive, secular Muslims. To stop behaving like throwing stones at this bogeyman "The Left" is somehow going to change anything. If we consider ourselves to be on the left of the political spectrum, let's remember what that means, get out of our self-pitying bubble, and start to live up to it.


    Beautiful.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #43 - March 09, 2015, 07:37 AM

    I just spat my water out

    Did you actually spit your water out? *sips beer*

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #44 - March 09, 2015, 08:38 AM

    Brilliant thread I missed first time round.
    I think it's time for the Ex-Muslim movement to grow up. To join up with other Leftist causes and issues. To join up with progressive, secular Muslims. To stop behaving like throwing stones at this bogeyman "The Left" is somehow going to change anything. If we consider ourselves to be on the left of the political spectrum, let's remember what that means, get out of our self-pitying bubble, and start to live up to it.

    Echoing Asbie's point, it's far more important to be genuinely progressive than of the 'left'. I totally understand your reservations about right-wing libertarians monopolosing the New Atheist (dread phrase) movement, but they have only occupied ground the left was too cowardly to enter. Take it back.

    I recoil against the self-righteousness and self-satisfaction of great swathes of the left - the whole Evil Tories yawnfest. The Tories have been at the heart of British public life during its period of greatest social and intellectual progress (prosperity too). It's asinine to ignore the fact that this progress has been achieved by swings and roundabouts, checks and balances. The right deserves as much credit for this as the left. My own instincts are for compassionate, hard-headed, interdependent libertarianism. Neither left nor right serves me well.

    pro human rights, pro-immigration, pro workers-rights, pro gender equality in all aspects, pro racial equality in all aspects, anti-war in general, anti-violence in general

    Tick tick tick, and a quibble. I wish people would see immigration as neither a virtue nor a vice. It should be entirely neutral. Handled carefully it can enrich a society spiritually and economically. Handled carelessly it can be a race to the bottom. I wish people would apply the same rigour to human migration as they do to plant and animal migration. I'm a gardener. My gardens are extravagantly cosmopolitan, but carefully so. If it doesn't thrive, forget it. If it risks getting absurdly invasive, forget it. If it naturalises happily, as the Brazilian Mirabilis jalapa does in Osaka, so be it. It smells lovely and doesn't choke other stuff out. Florida and, especially, Australia are the EDL of plant migration. Fuck 'em.

    Forgive my rambling. It's my birthday, and I'll drink if I want to.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #45 - March 09, 2015, 09:56 AM

    I'm not a 'Marxist' though I find Marxian analyses to often be solid, but I don't agree with his conclusions or 'solutions'. I.e. I agree exploitation exists; but I don't agree that collectivising it is more helpful than ignoring it. I am more of a social democrat - pro human rights, pro-immigration, pro workers-rights, pro gender equality in all aspects, pro racial equality in all aspects, anti-war in general, anti-violence in general (self defense is tricky as almost everyone thinks their side's violence is justified under 'self defense' so this is an issue that's not black and white and I look at it on a case by case basis).

    To add to David, I also find this a bit sickeningly conformist, like I have to dogmatically hold values like pro-immigration simply because I consider myself part of a political spectrum.

    I do agree with your previous comments about how political correctness is occasionally used to excuse incompetence, but it is a very real problem that has indirectly caused the growing ranks of Islamists in the UK by allowing it room to breathe and giving it a platform from which to speak without providing a challenging narrative.



  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #46 - March 09, 2015, 03:34 PM

    Forgive my rambling. It's my birthday, and I'll drink if I want to.


    Happy birthday!  fest42
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #47 - March 09, 2015, 03:50 PM

    Did you actually spit your water out? *sips beer*


    Yes, that was a hilariously unsophisticated comment.

    God knows what he did during his "research period", but there definitely wasn't much metaethics involved, judging by the statement in question.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #48 - March 09, 2015, 06:06 PM

    I guess we all have our youthful foibles, but most of us just throw the Che Guevara t-shirt out with the bong and move on with our lives.


    Do we HAVE to throw out the bong? I'm fine with the Che Guevara T-shirt, no problem, but there are some youthful foibles that are worth examining for a little while longer Smiley

    I'm not sure what is meant by 'radicalisation' anymore, you know, the way the press always go on about who or what radicalised the 3 girls, or Elmwazi, or the Woolwich pair, etc - but didn't they just radicalise themselves, the same way we all learn about something passionately once we're hooked on the idea of it/have a thirst for it -  be it a band, an area of literature, or Linguistics, Islam, Yoga, or learning the ropes in almost anything. Sure we refer to sources, and maybe a few demo's/talks, we may have a favourite scientist/mullah/lecturer, who we see eye to eye with, but is it really them radicalising you? If you had no interest, it'd just bore you. On the other hand, there are cases where you can be driven to take a view, like CAGE say about Elmwazi, and in that instance, it could be said that his 'passion' for the whole issue of repressed/repressor was ignited from that intrusion into his life. It seems wildly unpopular to not look at this thru a black and white lens, as though it's unpatriotic and ungrateful, but I'm not at all sure about that. You've been radicalised if your area of interest is considered 'bad', but 'self taught'/educated at...' if for a 'good' thing?

    Ha Ha.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #49 - March 11, 2015, 03:51 AM

    I guess we all have our youthful foibles, but most of us just throw the Che Guevara t-shirt out with the bong and move on with our lives.


    ...I've never had a Che Guevara t-shirt or a bong, and I'm a democratic socialist. On the topic of "where are you on the political spectrum", here's a quiz that asks a lot of questions and will give you a score on an x,y axis. It plots me at:
    Economic Left/Right: -8.5
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.97

    I've taken it a few times over the years, and it's interesting to see how I've moved over time.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #50 - April 04, 2015, 09:35 PM

    More from Klingschor's anti-imperialist turn:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H2U0jnHIfko
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #51 - April 05, 2015, 10:21 AM

    I really feel the jinn and tonic show has gone down hill, shame it used to be so good.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #52 - April 09, 2015, 09:08 PM

    By way of contrast with that last video from Klingschor here's Bread and Roses TV on the anti-imperialist left:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l4hGtFY4G8o&feature=youtu.be
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #53 - April 09, 2015, 10:08 PM

    Klingschor puts his case on the Infidel Podcast:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wNS-gBQlMAE
    and also on twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/klingschor
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #54 - April 09, 2015, 11:13 PM

    I love Kling, big big fan of him. He was brilliant on the Jinn & Tonic show, during it's more recent times he was a much needed balance to some of Stops occasional-following-of-right-wing-hysteria. Something that seems to go unchecked a little since he left the show.

    Kling is a great go to guy for a genuinely unbiased, well researched analysis on Islam & the scriptures.

    I don't necessarily agree with his current stance, but he puts across his case for it well.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #55 - April 10, 2015, 09:01 AM

    I think he brought up some good points. Much which is agreed upon by many here and myself. Many of these views have be discussed on the forums for as long as I have been here.
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #56 - July 31, 2015, 05:46 PM

    Hmmmm hmm...

    Hi
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #57 - December 25, 2015, 11:20 AM

    Klingschor on Ayaan Ali Hirsi: http://klingschor.blogspot.com.au/2015/12/ayaan-hirsi-ali-anti-muslim-bigot-and.html
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #58 - December 25, 2015, 11:24 AM

    Klingschor on left wing ex-Muslims: https://mobile.twitter.com/Klingschor/status/679616721750110208
  • Klingschor: I've been radicalised
     Reply #59 - December 25, 2015, 11:59 AM

    Quote


    Klingschor is a PROPHET MATERIAL.... Prophet Material starts their lives being anarchists.. In other words they are NOT satisfied with anything... I support his views and his writings,  But Klingschor must realize as long as Ayaan Hirsi Ali., Sam Harris.. X-Y-Z ....  give us   the option to question them  and freedom of expression is NOT curtailed by their political power or military jingoism., it is Ok .. ,

    but  what K_CHOR  SAYS HERE
    Quote
    6: The political nature of Islam

    In 2007, Ayaan claimed:

    Islam is different from other faiths because it is not just a faith, it is a political ideology. Children learn that Allah is the lawgiver, and that is a political statement.[36]

    This assertion—that Islam is uniquely also a political ideology, vis-à-vis other religions—is factually incorrect, and yet more xenophobic propaganda; by the same standard, Judaism (with its Rabbinical Law and divinely-inspired Mosaic Law),[37] Confucianism (with its socio-politico-theological blueprint for society),[38] Mormonism (with its divine commandments),[39] etc., are all political ideologies as well.

      is rubbish..

    Proof is in the pudding .. and pudding is in the numbers ..  Judaism with its Rabbinical Law Vs  Islam with its Allah divine Law...    which one has more numbers??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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