Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi speakers: the word "Ghoray"

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Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi speakers: the word "Ghoray"
OP - February 15, 2015, 12:56 AM

My family comes from Pakistan and my dad's language is Punjabi. I've heard the word "ghoray" used many times and I've never really understood what it meant.
From my understanding, it means either White people or Christians. A teacher at an Islamic school I went to said it was almost interchangeable, because most White people are Christians (according to him). Or was it the other way round and because most Christians were White (still according to him)?
Almost every time I've heard this word, it's in a derogatory way: "These damn pork-eating Ghoray and their alcohol drinks". I obviously refrain from using this word cos I'm not a racist, and my Urdu/Punjabi sucks. It still bugs me to hear this word, just as it would to hear someone drop the N-bomb, because it's used to discriminate against people of another race and perpetuate hate. Like I said, I'm not a racist.
So, have any of you guys come into this word before or know what it means?

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Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi speakers: the word "Ghoray"
Reply #1 - February 15, 2015, 01:18 AM

Goray is the plural form of gora, which refers to white skin. The actual word for the colour white is different to "gora".

It is a somewhat (but not extremely) flexible term. For instance, a person with a fair complexion may be complimented by another who says"look how gora/gori he/she is!". On the other hand, it is too often used to indicate foreigners, "Look at that gora over there". In the second case, you can see how it becomes insulting. It really depends upon the tone and context in which it is said.

One could argue that its usage is often sardonic (Who do those goray think they are?), especially in the instances that you have mentioned. I guess there are some historical nuances to also take into account, such as the British Raj.

I'm not too sure about the Christian thing but it is frequently used to describe westerners. The Urdu term for Christian is nasrani.

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Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi speakers: the word "Ghoray"
Reply #2 - February 15, 2015, 02:47 AM

Note, as in Arabic the preferred Urdu term for Christians (used by Christian themselves) is not nasrani. Christians in Urdu call themselves isayi

And "gora" just means "fair of complexion" id est "white" but not as in "the eggs are white" but more like "white supremacy" white lol. gorey is the plural and it can be used also to describe things white people do or are like. As a noun goraa means a person with the above qualities.

Edit: And as a white person who learned Hindi/Urdu, I can attest that, yes, it is really bothersome and racist the way the word is used. Political correctness has barely a foothold in India and not even a full platoon of supports in Pakistan, lol, so it can be distressing the way this word is used.

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Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi speakers: the word "Ghoray"
Reply #3 - February 15, 2015, 08:51 AM

Quote
Note, as in Arabic the preferred Urdu term for Christians (used by Christian themselves) is not nasrani. Christians in Urdu call themselves isayi

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that.

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Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi speakers: the word "Ghoray"
Reply #4 - February 16, 2015, 12:11 PM

Quote from: countjulian on February 15, 2015, 02:47 AM
Note, as in Arabic the preferred Urdu term for Christians (used by Christian themselves) is not nasrani. Christians in Urdu call themselves isayi

Is it "isayi" as in followers of 'isa spelled with an initial 'ayn? Now that's interesting, since i thought that no christian would refer to jesus as 'isa, since afaik that form of the name can only be traced back to the quran. That would suggest that the christian population among urdu speaking people were initially muslims, then missionaries would use the term for jesus that they were already familiar with, ie the term they knew from islam, 'isa. And i guess the word stuck with them. Was such the case?

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Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi speakers: the word "Ghoray"
Reply #5 - February 16, 2015, 12:18 PM

Quote
Is it "isayi" as in followers of 'isa spelled with an initial 'ayn?

Yep, the same goes for Christianity.

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Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi speakers: the word "Ghoray"
Reply #6 - February 16, 2015, 12:21 PM

I got the above spelling from a dictionary, I can decompose it into:

ع ی س ا ئ ی ت

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Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi speakers: the word "Ghoray"
Reply #7 - February 17, 2015, 01:44 AM

Quote from: kephas on February 16, 2015, 12:11 PM
Is it "isayi" as in followers of 'isa spelled with an initial 'ayn? Now that's interesting, since i thought that no christian would refer to jesus as 'isa, since afaik that form of the name can only be traced back to the quran. That would suggest that the christian population among urdu speaking people were initially muslims, then missionaries would use the term for jesus that they were already familiar with, ie the term they knew from islam, 'isa. And i guess the word stuck with them. Was such the case?

Basically, all of the religious vocabulary in Urdu is taken from Arabic, for both Christians and Muslims. Desi Urdu-speaking Christians draw on Christian Arabic for their religious vocabulary. It is interesting to note, however, that Jesus is Christian Arabic is not 'isa but rather yasuu' (much closer to the Hebrew original, yeshuu', which is BTW the same name as "Joshua" in Hebrew). What seems to have happened is that Christians in India simply took the best known name for Jesus, 'isa, as made famous by centuries of Islamic civilization, for their own. Christians in India and Pakistan call Jesus "isa masiih" (as opposed to Arabic Christians, who call him yesuu' al-masiiH). For reference here are all the spellings in Arabic characters:

عيسى مسيح=isa masiih

يسوع المسيح=yasuu' al-masiiH

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