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 Topic: The Big Questions debate on apostates

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  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #120 - March 17, 2015, 09:38 PM
    Quote from: suki on March 17, 2015, 09:30 PM
    .....................   jewish interpretation  version of taqiya...........

        Jewish Taquiyya  is official Israel policy  tailor made for Palestinians  and their politics 
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #121 - March 17, 2015, 09:59 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on March 17, 2015, 09:24 PM
    hmm that is interesting that last link is new to  me...

    Wow. There is a lot of Taqiyya about Taqiyya. The meta-Taqiyya is overwhelming wacko

    I remember one of the comments to CEMB's video on 'Taqiyya' being:

    Quote
    Lol. Taqiyya about taqiyya.

     banghead
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #122 - March 17, 2015, 10:57 PM
    I just do not understand why people can not just call out liars or misinformed without loading religious baggage on the term. People can believe something is true while it is in fact a lie or false. Calling out Taqiyya is an ad hominem which is attacking the person not the argument. It is calling the person as liar without establishing there is in fact a lie. It would be better to cite references which prove the view wrong then pass judgement on the person. Show the person in question is wrong by misinformation or outright lying then blast them for it.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #123 - March 17, 2015, 11:17 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on March 17, 2015, 07:37 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjZSJg1HQpc

    hmmm....Klingschor did a good job  on Taqiyya



    Ahem... excuse me!!??  I did that video, not Klingschor  finmad
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #124 - March 17, 2015, 11:24 PM
    Quote from: Nikolaj on March 17, 2015, 09:59 PM
    Wow. There is a lot of Taqiyya about Taqiyya. The meta-Taqiyya is overwhelming wacko

    I remember one of the comments to CEMB's video on 'Taqiyya' being:

    Lol. Taqiyya about taqiyya.

     banghead


    lol I remember that comment.

    I've been called a "Taqiya Tactician" in the past. It was by some Right-wing Christians who didn't believe I was really an ex-Muslim since I wasn't spewing hatred on Muslims.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #125 - March 17, 2015, 11:29 PM
    The same reason I've been called a 5th column Islamist. Repeatedly. But mostly an Islamophobe though. Not by the same people.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #126 - March 17, 2015, 11:34 PM
    Well I reckon if both sides call you names, you are probably on the right track  grin12
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #127 - March 18, 2015, 02:32 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on March 17, 2015, 02:48 AM
    The word taqqiyya has been hijacked by muslim bashers to prove that muslims are dishonest and untrustworthy on the whole. It's very popular with the Robert Spencer/Pamela Geller types. It usually raises alarm bells when people hear it because it basically means when used today "You can't trust a muslim".


    That's just silly, then.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #128 - March 18, 2015, 02:35 AM
    Quote from: Skywalker on March 17, 2015, 09:01 AM
    three
    I think the answer to what you call it is by asking yourself: When you were a muslim, did you believe in lying or lying by omission for the sake of making Islam look good, and what part of the Quran&Sunnah did you use for that?


    I did not lie. I was taught that Islam was all that and a bag of chips, and I fell for it. I was doing dawah, using English Quran, and knew no better. I stopped lying long before I was Muslim.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #129 - March 18, 2015, 02:36 AM
    Quote from: suki on March 17, 2015, 10:03 AM
    Well more than anything i hope that she continues to be safe...  we are scoffing about Islam while hiding behind fake usernames etc, she's heroic.


    Yes. I hope she is taking precautions.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #130 - March 18, 2015, 02:38 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 17, 2015, 10:51 AM
    This is a general question to all the ex-Muslims here:

    1. Did your parents teach you to practice Taqiyya?

    2. When did you first hear the word Taqiyya?


    I was a convert so the first question does not apply to me. But I think I first heard the word on this forum.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #131 - March 18, 2015, 02:44 AM
    Quote from: Lilyesque on March 17, 2015, 11:32 AM
    I think needs more than 2 questions. Did you feel peer pressure to cover things up? Did you feel like things were covered up from you? Did you feel ashamed of facts so purposefully veer around them?


    Things were definitely covered up from me. People refused to accurately translate things for me, I was told accurate translations were instead opinions and were corrupt. I was also told that Islam meant peace. I was never told anything logical about Surah an Nisa, no one could explain it because no one wanted to tell me what it really said. I was also kept from knowing about the misogyny in Shariah, instead every time someone went through Shariah court and it was decided in favor of the woman it was pointed out to me. I should have noticed it was a novelty at that point.
    The only Muslimah who ever explained anything properly to me was Ahmadiyya. Because her Caliph could, and did, change the law.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #132 - March 18, 2015, 03:14 AM
    No my parents didnt teach me to use Taqqiya

    I heard it actually after joining this site.

    Did you feel peer pressure to cover things up?

    yes

    Did you feel like things were covered up from you?

    Yes

    Did you feel ashamed of facts so purposefully veer around them?

    Yes

    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #133 - March 18, 2015, 03:46 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on March 17, 2015, 07:37 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMFSfiseaJY

    classic rascal.. juice...juice..juice..

    The fuck? Are those subs what he actually said?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #134 - March 18, 2015, 04:31 AM
    Yes.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #135 - March 18, 2015, 07:10 AM
    Quote from: Xiis on March 18, 2015, 03:14 AM
    No my parents didnt teach me to use Taqqiya

    I heard it actually after joining this site.

    Did you feel peer pressure to cover things up?

    yes

    Did you feel like things were covered up from you?

    Yes

    Did you feel ashamed of facts so purposefully veer around them?

    Yes




    I agree with you completely Xilis. There were many issues I felt uncomfortable about and avoided or skirted around.

    I'm sorry if I came on a bit strong regarding the word Taqiyya. It's due to my own bad experience with it with right wing bigots that I get touchy about it.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #136 - March 18, 2015, 08:14 AM
    Quote from: lua on March 17, 2015, 09:34 PM
    What history of it being practiced between warring tribes of Arabia? Can you or someone else give me some sources? This is the first I've heard of it.


    Hey yeah it was just some articles i'd come accross saying that the early saudi arabian tribes used tactiful warfare, lies and deceit to defeat other tribes, suppose a bit like prophet mohamed's sneeky war tactics of raiding a village while the men slept in their beds :/  maybe these kinds of stories are where the idea came from.   

    I've never come accross this taqiya in my time as a muslim, most of my friends were pretty straight forward with their Islam, even my ex husband, on the day he met my mom for the first time told her that her brother should be killed for being gay wacko   lol 
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #137 - March 18, 2015, 08:35 AM
    ...but that's something all cultures in all times have done more or less. Doublespeak is practiced by all religious apologetics, as well. Religion is crap. So is war and conflicts.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #138 - March 18, 2015, 08:39 AM
    Strategy in warfare should not be compared to willful lying or omission, be it religious or not. A better example would be a sales pitch. You want someone to buy into a product but you omit certain details to make the product or sale look better than it is. Like advertising a fancy warranty but omitting the fact that the product fails shortly after it expires.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #139 - March 18, 2015, 09:29 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMFSfiseaJY

    :O

    This is shocking really. that this is seen as good
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #140 - March 18, 2015, 10:13 AM
    Quote from: Cornflower on March 18, 2015, 08:35 AM
    ...but that's something all cultures in all times have done more or less. Doublespeak is practiced by all religious apologetics, as well. Religion is crap. So is war and conflicts.


    Yes i agree, it exists in every religion and people, i was just looking into whether there was a pre islamic/shia version of it, just out of interest    :  )

    Wow that video link is awful lol crazy..
      
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #141 - March 18, 2015, 11:53 AM
    It's ironic, I thought that I mentioned that youtube video in my post.That's the only example of lying or lying by omission/doublespeak in order to convert that I found when searching online, and even then he?s not using religious justification for the story he is telling. There should be a fatwa that allows lying by omission/doublespeak for converting people, I don't doubt it happens, but its the use of religious justification that would make it a different issue.

    Here's another video I found when searching online in which salafi telling another story of muslim a lying when debating, though that would be from his perspective.Not agreeing with him would be lying, most likely.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHI4xlNnzYU
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #142 - March 18, 2015, 01:02 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 17, 2015, 11:17 PM
    Ahem... excuse me!!??  I did that video, not Klingschor  finmad


    Huh!  what?  OK...   this time you are excused,  may be you were sleeping when you posted that or may be when you copied the link from you pc you made a mistake ., 

     and..and don't do such mistake next time .,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hYzeqOCMvY

    and give the correct link. I don't tolerate silly mistakes..  finmad
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #143 - March 18, 2015, 01:06 PM
    Quote from: Xiis on March 18, 2015, 03:14 AM
    No my parents didnt teach me to use Taqqiya., I heard it actually after joining this site.

    Did you feel peer pressure to cover things up?

    yes

    Did you feel like things were covered up from you?

    Yes

    Did you feel ashamed of facts so purposefully veer around them?

    yes

     

       Yes..........yes..........yes.......


    Xiis  long time no see .. greetings and my good wishes to you.,  that is a perfect  Q& A  description of Islam within home, whose Islamic background is very little to do with Islamic scriptures/literature and more to do with rituals and day to day life..  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #144 - March 18, 2015, 01:06 PM
    You are such a nut case, Yeezy... but I love you anyway  far away hug
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #145 - March 18, 2015, 01:13 PM
    Quote from: suki on March 18, 2015, 10:13 AM
    Yes i agree, it exists in every religion and people, i was just looking into whether there was a pre islamic/shia version of it, just out of interest    :  )

    Wow that video link is awful lol crazy..
      


    Taqiyya is a religious concept, so no, there wouldn't be one before the religion, right? Anyway, tribal influence still exists in a major way in KSA, but no, I don't think they've inherited a culture of lying from them or anything like that. Calling what you are describing in Saudi Arabia dishonesty would be a huge oversimplification; there's a lot going on there.


  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #146 - March 18, 2015, 01:22 PM
    Quote from: lua on March 18, 2015, 01:13 PM
    Taqiyya is a religious concept, so no, there wouldn't be one before the religion, right? Anyway, tribal influence still exists in a major way in KSA, but no, I don't think they've inherited a culture of lying from them or anything like that. Calling what you are describing in Saudi Arabia dishonesty would be a huge oversimplification; there's a lot going on there.

    Nope Taqiyya  is just a word  an Arabic word....  Popularized by Persian Shia Islam..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #147 - March 18, 2015, 01:26 PM
    I highly doubt that the taqiyya we're talking about, which is the one in Islam, was somehow around before Islam. What we're talking about on here is the distinction between just plain dishonesty or strategic lying in times of warfare, which is universal, and taqiyya--not the word, the practice.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #148 - March 18, 2015, 03:59 PM
    Quote from: lua on March 18, 2015, 01:26 PM
    I highly doubt that the taqiyya we're talking about, which is the one in Islam, was somehow around before Islam. What we're talking about on here is the distinction between just plain dishonesty or strategic lying in times of warfare, which is universal, and taqiyya--not the word, the practice.

     
     

    well whatever is the name we cal lual.,  it comes right out of biological evolution and it was there before Islam.

    As long as you use GOLDEN RULE "CHEATING IS ALLOWED"

     
    Now if you ask the question that

    "Does Islam Promote Deception?"?

    ANSWER IS YES..

    And all faiths promote deception knowingly or unknowingly ., covertly or overtly
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #149 - March 18, 2015, 04:23 PM
    That icon is super cute, by the way. But yes, that's what we were trying to say from the start, Yeez. Grin
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