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 Topic: This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed

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  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #30 - March 24, 2015, 02:30 AM
    Quote from: moi on March 23, 2015, 08:50 PM
    http://www.theahafoundation.org


    This organization does not offer support to victims. They train police and social service types and offer advocacy.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #31 - March 24, 2015, 03:24 AM
    I understand that these problems exist in all patriarchal societies but for some reason reading about Muslima's always bothers me more. Maybe because it hits too close to home.

    In some ways I still consider myself a sort of a Muslim. And it sucks how the bestest, greatest , most amazing religion of all time has no solution for my problems. Surely Allah could have dedicated a few lines in the Quran instructing men to treat their wives better and yet he did the exact opposite. Islam has such a strong hold on its followers; getting them to mould their lives around it's many requirements. If he wanted Allah could have ended domestic violence, forced marriage, child marriage etc. and he didn't. It's like women's problems weren't on his mind at all. This is what drove me away from Islam.

    Sorry for the rambling.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #32 - March 24, 2015, 06:06 AM
    It bothers me more as well, and I think it's because the source of this is found in a religion that claims to be the solution for all wrong as long as you follow it strictly. However, that religion is the reason for these attitudes, or at least the very reason for it to continue, IF you follow it and believe in it. Muslims are good humble people in spite of Islam, not because. Islam gives you every opportunity it can to make you into a sexist, misogynist, intollerant, racist, supremacist, psychopath, with murderous tendencies. That's the reason this bothers me more.

    Also because I can relate and.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #33 - March 24, 2015, 06:43 AM
    Quote from: Cornflower on March 24, 2015, 06:06 AM
    Islam gives you every opportunity it can to make you into a sexist, misogynist, intollerant, racist, supremacist, psychopath, with murderous tendencies. That's the reason this bothers me more.


    In my experience, tho, that's not exclusive to Islam. There are plenty of similar passages in Jewish and Christian texts; in some cases, those texts are even worse. I mean, at least it is universally or nearly universally true in the Muslim texts that non-combatants, women, and children (although what constitutes a child or non-combatant may change) should not be killed in war. But in the "early" Jewish texts, the books of the Torah, Joshua, and Judges, killing non-combatants isn't only encouraged, it's mandatory. The reason given for King Saul's dynasty collapsing is that he failed to kill non-combatants in war. Other people were killed for the same "offense". In a lot of cases, all the inhabitants of a city that breathe, whether or not they're even human, and whether they are born or unborn, are ordered slaughtered. In some cases, some were spared--but these were only virgin girls, to be slaves (and all female slaves were automatically sex slaves). And then there's crap like Psalm 137:9: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock."

    And as for sexist? Fuck, have you READ Song of Songs (shir hashirim--also called Song of Solomon). Apparently, when women are in love, they say stuff like "1:13 My beloved is unto me as a bag of myrrh, that lieth betwixt my breasts. 1:14 My beloved is unto me as a cluster of henna in the vineyards of En-gedi." And when men are in love? This couch we fuck on is comfortable, and you're ok to look at! (1:16) The jewelry you're wearing is pretty! "1:10 Thy cheeks are comely with circlets, thy neck with beads. 11 We will make thee circlets of gold with studs of silver." (also, 7:2 and 4:2-3) Who is this woman who talked for the last two chapters about how much she loves me after I slept with her on that comfortable couch? Ah, who cares, she smells good! "3:6 Who is this that cometh up out of the wilderness like pillars of smoke, perfumed with myrrh and frankincense, with all powders of the merchant?" (also 4:6, 10-11, 13-15.) Now I'm going to go on for the next three verses comparing myself to a pillar! or wood! or a wood pillar! (dick metaphor much?) Also, I'm king, I'll fuck all the girls!

    Yeah. So there's that.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #34 - March 24, 2015, 10:07 AM
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16973.0
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #35 - March 24, 2015, 11:53 AM
    Quote from: YinYang on March 24, 2015, 03:24 AM
    ........... If he wanted Allah could have ended domestic violence, forced marriage, child marriage etc. and he didn't. It's like women's problems weren't on his mind at all. This is what drove me away from Islam.

    Sorry for the rambling. .......

    He..heeeee? who is he? what is he?  THE DICK HEAD or dick in the male head?  

    there is simple answer for why domestic violence, forced marriage, child marriages and all other zillion problems  didn't end on this planet YinYang..

    The answer is that Heee.. HE DOESN'T EXIT.,  IT  DOESN'T EXIT...  It is a dick in the head that is poking  the human brain that makes people believe in Heeeeeeeee.. Off course criminal scoundrels will do criminal activities with or without HE in their brains. But without Heee and without so-called religious scriptures backing that "Heeee", for this criminal "he" we can at least formulate new Moral grounds to lessen the tragedies  like domestic violence, forced marriage, child marriages....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #36 - March 25, 2015, 03:30 PM
    Let me agree and disagree with you on that, galfromusa. It is true that those things I listen above are far from unique to Islam, or the other Abrahamic religions for that matter. However, when comparing Christianity and Judaism to Islam, you will see that Islam (as the youngest of the siblings) are many centuries behind. Christianity and Judaism have gone through a long history of reform, so much so that there are very few Christian and Jewish fundamentalist groups who still hold on to the Bible as the literal word of god and all it entails. Those who do are on the fringe. Even when looking at the Catholic Church and Orthodoxy, which are the two major Christian traditions that in general still have problems, they are on par more with the moderate streams within Islam rather than the more extreme or fundamentalist influences that are found throughout the Muslim world, which I think says a lot.

    As for Islam, holding on to the Quran and the literal word of god is still the norm whether that be uneducated laymen, educated middle class, or the elite of the scholars. Quran as the word of god is the very core and foundation on which the religions stands on, and is also the main reason preventing the Muslim-Islamic world to move forward towards any real reforms. Holding on to Islamic beliefs will give you every opportunity, especially as a male, to hold on to attitudes like those expressed in the aforementioned thread. They are not unique to Islam, but that specific thread is the direct result of certain Islamic scriptures. I can list exactly which verses and ahadeeth have lead up to Muslim in that thread to reason like they do.

    Yes, culture and religion are inseparable. They mold each other and there is no "pure" form of Islam or any other religion for that matter. However, when religion is the bigger identity marker and has greater influence, which is true in a lot of Muslim societies, it is the "Islamic" view of things that is favored over any other way of thinking. What is deemed "Islamic" is what goes. From an Islamic perspective, Muslim belief, the advice in that thread (even though some of the things are a little bit off) isn't that far from what an educated scholar being true to the texts would say. A Christian priest from let's say Sweden would have a major brain meltdown if confronted with that thread. Perhaps the more extreme forms of Judaism found in Israel would be able to relate. Those aren't "extreme" Muslims, though...
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #37 - March 26, 2015, 02:48 AM
    Cornflower is right. The advice in that thread was similar to advice given to the girl I brought to the imam, who had been literally tortured by her husband. He suggested her having a baby, too. What had been done to her would never have resulted in a baby, and he knew it. It's like a knee-jerk response, that baby thing. That's another phone call I am still waiting on, for his decision on her divorce.
    This is a Western educated imam from a major metropolitan area who originated from a megametropolis in the Middle East. No village idiot. His audience was Westerners up on their stuff, and expected more from him. He knew his fiqh. I should have trusted myself back then and taken him at face value. I would have left Islam sooner.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #38 - March 26, 2015, 09:09 AM
    Quote from: three on March 26, 2015, 02:48 AM
    Cornflake

     Grin
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #39 - March 27, 2015, 01:36 AM
    Now you know what I sneak down and eat in the kitchen when the kids are in bed! Sorry, Cornflower! I was hungry!
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #40 - March 27, 2015, 05:23 AM
    Now that's an adorable nickname! I thought you purposely called her Cornflake Cheesy
    turnipovich
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #41 - March 27, 2015, 05:26 AM
    I love you guys Smiley it's been Cornflour, Cornflake, Pornflower. My favourite Happyflower. I wonder what's next Grin
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #42 - March 27, 2015, 09:21 AM
    Sunflower Smiley
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #43 - March 27, 2015, 11:53 AM
    Petal.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #44 - March 28, 2015, 02:31 AM
    Flowergrrl.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #45 - March 28, 2015, 07:08 AM
    Sweetcorn

  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #46 - March 30, 2015, 11:35 AM
    In the hope of drilling some sense into the little lost girl and her barrage of ignorant advisers I just posted this (not sure if it will get past the moderator though).

    Quote
    Dear Muslima Angel,

    I have read your story, the comments by people and the updates you gave day after day. I am just really disturbed by the level of acceptance by the commentators of the abuse your are enduring and have endured. Nothing justifies hitting you, calling you names and emotionally blackmailing you.

    Those who so ignorantly advised you that having a baby will solve anything, did you injustice, but you took their advice. The baby is here already so I will not dwell on why that was a terrible idea. But lying to yourself that things will improve, through a baby is not only being unfair to your child (who is innocent in all this), but it is unfortunately very unfair to you as a human being. You need to be decisive enough to walk away, albeit with a child in tow now.

    You have to be realistic here, forget for a moment about the pleasing Allah part; you are a human being who deserves happiness and joy, irrespective of your religious beliefs. Forget for a moment about the so called 'shame' to your family; you are a human being who needs to feel safe and loved regardless of your cultural inhibitions.

    You need to get out while you still can. If you stay, IMO this is what leads to the so called Honor based violence. If you remember the story of Banaaz Mahmoud in the UK, it was similar to yours and it ended tragically. Forced marriage, abusive husband, un-helpful parents all rolled into one. When she gathered the guts to leave, she died for it. Except you can make the choice, to leave yet be able to LIVE. Let me be blunt and tell you that it will not improve, so stop lying to yourself and putting your precious child through a life of misery that you are too scared to walk away from. You live in America, so you have at your disposal thousands of resources to help you get out of an abusive & loveless marriage.

    The rest, please stop misleading the young lady, in the name of religion. Abuse is abuse, call it for what it is. Muslimah Angel, I really hope you find the courage and conviction to save yourself and your little one.

    Tired of the bull-shit. I write my own doctrines.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #47 - March 30, 2015, 02:16 PM
    Your comment's showing. I hope she and others in her situation read it.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #48 - August 18, 2015, 11:13 AM
    Quote from: Cornflower on March 20, 2015, 08:36 AM
    The thing is that the hierarchy established between husband and wife sets the scene from the get-go. You have a good relationship with your husband as long as your husband is a good person with a good character, irregardless of his beliefs or how devout and "saalih" he is. No religion can redeem a shitty personality, the bad characteristics always find a way to manifest themselves. If then the religion itself gives leeway for the man to do whatever he pleases, there's not much hope.

    If you have narrations that talk about how the wife is eternally in debt to her husband so much that she would perform sujood to him if it was permissible, or that she would never be able to repay him even if his entire body was covered in puss and she licked it up, then there is no way a wife can do anything to make her husband any less worthy of her praise and semi-worship. You have narrations that explicitly says that there is no better wife than a woman who sits besides her husband and takes his hand, apologizing, saying she will not give up before he has forgiven her and is pleased with her again even if it was him who had committed the wrong.

    The only thing a wife has the right to, that is an actual right that you practically can establish, is to maintenance in accordance with her husbands abilities, and that is under the condition that she obeys his every command that does not directly go against the shariah. He can keep her as a prisoner in her own house, make her do whatever he desires, and she must reply "haadir ya sayyidee".

    The whole "deserving of good treatment" and "take care of your women" rhetoric is highly deceptive and in the end meaningless. A husband is legally allowed to prohibit his wife to go outside, to meet her parents, to have any friends, to have any social life whatsoever outside the home, she isn't even allowed to let in her own father or mother if they come to visit if the husband has said no. She must follow his every command because that is his right, without any conditions I might add. You come across now and then fatawas that state that even if he doesn't support her, she must obey him. While if she disobeys him, her right to maintenance is void.

    There are no real repercussions for a husband ill-treating his wife, and to even Islamically define what "ill-treatment" or "good treatment" is problematic since the command is so vague that it ends up falling flat. And even if you admit that the husband is in the wrong, you go back to the guidelines that says that a wife should be forgiving and just accept things.

    I just browsed for like three minutes on a fatwa site and came across a fatwa that seriously suggested the cheated wife to adorn herself and make her more appealing for her husband, while "advising" and "admonishing" him for his adultery, and to even suggest that he takes the mistress as a second wife. Only the last resort was allowing her to separate from her husband, but to make sure that it should only be a "threat" and not a realistic goal.


    These are some of the things that make me so angry! Did that fatwa come from IslamQA? Because I think I saw one similar over there.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #49 - August 18, 2015, 11:23 AM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on August 18, 2015, 11:13 AM
    These are some of the things that make me so angry! Did that fatwa come from IslamQA? Because I think I saw one similar over there.


    girl.. Iam also angry  finmad.. Beat  finmad the  rascals.. beat them up...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv_I21OlOqE

    and welcome to den..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #50 - August 18, 2015, 11:29 AM
    Lol thanks!
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #51 - August 18, 2015, 01:12 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on August 18, 2015, 11:13 AM
    These are some of the things that make me so angry! Did that fatwa come from IslamQA? Because I think I saw one similar over there.


    You have millions like that on IslamQA. But more "moderate" sites like Islamweb etc are as bad, they are just better at hiding it. The problem is Islam itself.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #52 - August 18, 2015, 06:16 PM
    Fellows.. I burned my life in it because some Muslim guy  and some non-Muslim lady married together had good life for sometime in their lives....

    .. anyways.,  any guy or any girl who insists on their religions and rituals  over the love/commitment/ sharing life together IS NOT WORTH MARRYING.. at best you can date and have cup of tea..

    take that from me  as  allahgodheee  revelation to yeez.......
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #53 - August 18, 2015, 11:09 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on August 18, 2015, 11:13 AM
    These are some of the things that make me so angry! Did that fatwa come from IslamQA? Because I think I saw one similar over there.


    The blatant hypocrisy of the post you quoted is astonishing...if a man cheats, that's the wife's fault and she needs to be prettier and accept the other woman and put out more. If a woman cheats....well, best case scenario, she'll be divorced. Worst case scenario, she'll be dead.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #54 - August 19, 2015, 12:27 AM
    Quote
    The blatant hypocrisy of the post you quoted is astonishing...if a man cheats, that's the wife's fault and she needs to be prettier and accept the other woman and put out more. If a woman cheats....well, best case scenario, she'll be divorced. Worst case scenario, she'll be dead.


    I know right? The amount of leeway IslamQA (and Islam in general appears to) gives to men is ridiculous! I remember a fatwa in which a woman complained about her husband beating her and she was advised to be patient and focus on his positive attributes. But when a man complains about the slightest disobedience from his wife they're telling him to hit her and the wife is an evil she-devil.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #55 - August 19, 2015, 12:40 AM
    Islam is a man's religion at the end of the day.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Re: This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #56 - August 19, 2015, 10:38 AM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on August 19, 2015, 12:27 AM
    I know right? The amount of leeway IslamQA (and Islam in general appears to) gives to men is ridiculous! I remember a fatwa in which a woman complained about her husband beating her and she was advised to be patient and focus on his positive attributes. But when a man complains about the slightest disobedience from his wife they're telling him to hit her and the wife is an evil she-devil.


    This was my experience, I had mediators to physically remove him from my home because of his regular violence, but they were more concerned about his reputation in the community than my well being. I was told to let him stay, hush up and be patient, practice patience, pray and focus on his good qualities.. In the meantime he admitted to me that he was advised to beat me up violently, if I decided to end the marriage, so I did anyway, and I received my reward.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #57 - August 19, 2015, 11:25 AM
    unholy crap.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #58 - August 19, 2015, 11:46 AM
    ^  I agree with the keeping of their reputation within the community though, everyone deserves another chance, with some kind of therapy. I did keep quiet about it and just told everyone that we had personality conflicts, including my mom.. besides, it wasn't entirely his fault, just brainwashed and ill advised by religious nutcases.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #59 - August 19, 2015, 12:06 PM
    Quote from: suki on August 19, 2015, 10:38 AM
    This was my experience, I had mediators to physically remove him from my home because of his regular violence, but they were more concerned about his reputation in the community than my well being. I was told to let him stay, hush up and be patient, practice patience, pray and focus on his good qualities.. In the meantime he admitted to me that he was advised to beat me up violently, if I decided to end the marriage, so I did anyway, and I received my reward.


    Disgusting  finmad
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