New Agnostic Atheist/Theist

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- bogart
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Reply #30 - May 10, 2015, 06:03 PM

Quote from: Mira on May 10, 2015, 12:29 PM

The thing is, Quran is really not any ordinary book. I always loved it despite it's dark side. It's just too powerful and has a strong impact on those who are open to it. I still can't believe Muhammad has written this book and just made up Islam. I don't think so. No one can come up with such verses, and even the Quran dares people to come up with even just a verse like it. Haha, kind of adding insult to injury. I can't reject Quran 100% . As I also can't prove it's the truth. Simply, I'm trying to follow the best path for me that makes me feel at peace ( at last, I'm just pretty tired by now with all of this. I haven't settled down on something for a while which is making me not focused on my life ).

Sorry I wrote too much haha. It was nice to meet you galfromusa!

People will claim this of any holy text they like. People will claim this of Psalms and the Vedas. It is only an argument of incredibility. The challenge is fallacious. More a few people here have produced sura like it. The issue is the judges are Muslims thus is not an objective challenge but a subjective one since they already accept the claim as true but never tested the claim objectively.
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Reply #31 - May 10, 2015, 06:52 PM

Hey Bogart,

I say it's not an ordinary book because of the Arabic scripture. That's just my impression of it. I'm not defending it, I'm honest with myself, that's why even though I highly disagree with many Quranic teachings, I'd face the "truth" I see. I would like to see the Suras, please. Maybe that could help break my illusions. And, I admit. I'm still partially a Muslim and that'something very natural considering that I just left Islam a few days ago. I'm still in great struggle with my previous beliefs, that's why I was saying that I'm reevaluating the Quran. I want to come to a better understanding of it, away from my feelings about it ( that's probably coming from my long Islamic belief ).

Anyway, I'm sorry if that offended you in anyway. I wasn't defending Islam or Quran, I was just sharing my current thoughts and beliefs about it. I claim to know nothing.

I chose Islam. Peace, it was nice to be here for a little while.
- gal_from_usa
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Reply #32 - May 10, 2015, 08:51 PM

Quote from: Mira on May 10, 2015, 06:52 PM
Hey Bogart,

I say it's not an ordinary book because of the Arabic scripture. That's just my impression of it. I'm not defending it, I'm honest with myself, that's why even though I highly disagree with many Quranic teachings, I'd face the "truth" I see. I would like to see the Suras, please. Maybe that could help break my illusions. And, I admit. I'm still partially a Muslim and that'something very natural considering that I just left Islam a few days ago. I'm still in great struggle with my previous beliefs, that's why I was saying that I'm reevaluating the Quran. I want to come to a better understanding of it, away from my feelings about it ( that's probably coming from my long Islamic belief ).

Anyway, I'm sorry if that offended you in anyway. I wasn't defending Islam or Quran, I was just sharing my current thoughts and beliefs about it. I claim to know nothing.

A lot of us have been through that. It's hard to reject everything you've ever believed overnight, and it's terrifying to look into the abyss that is the world outside what you were born and raised into and not know where to begin when it comes to knowing where to stand on every issue. Go at your own rate, don't feel rushed, it's ok to make mistakes or stumble around along the way, just learn from them and move on. It gets easier with more practice.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
- bogart
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Reply #33 - May 10, 2015, 11:51 PM

Quote from: Mira on May 10, 2015, 06:52 PM
Hey Bogart,

I say it's not an ordinary book because of the Arabic scripture. That's just my impression of it. I'm not defending it, I'm honest with myself, that's why even though I highly disagree with many Quranic teachings, I'd face the "truth" I see. I would like to see the Suras, please. Maybe that could help break my illusions. And, I admit. I'm still partially a Muslim and that'something very natural considering that I just left Islam a few days ago. I'm still in great struggle with my previous beliefs, that's why I was saying that I'm reevaluating the Quran. I want to come to a better understanding of it, away from my feelings about it ( that's probably coming from my long Islamic belief ).

Anyway, I'm sorry if that offended you in anyway. I wasn't defending Islam or Quran, I was just sharing my current thoughts and beliefs about it. I claim to know nothing.

You can find an example here: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=27842.0

I know there are other examples but I am having trouble finding the threads, sorry. Maybe another member knows of the threads I can not find. You could just read Psalms or the Vedas. The Vedas make the same claim to divinity as the Quran as a work of the divine. People can issue the challenge to produce a verse like it which next to no one can meet as the language, Vedic Sanskrit, is a dead language. Matsya Avatar verses contain this claim.

You didn't offend me at all. It is just that the poetry topic is one that is repeated often and addressed just as often on the forums. Take a look at some of the threads in the Religion and Gods forums along with the Scripture Subform discussion verses and issues with verses especially Zaotar's work.
- The Defiant
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Reply #34 - May 10, 2015, 11:57 PM

Hi Mira,
I've been coming across this 'Agnostic' adjective a lot recently but I can't think for the life of me why.
It is no doubt a worrying trend, I fear to think what a world where more people thought rationally and valued this life a little more over some promised - unprovable-magical-forever 'Happy land', might be like?
I jest of course, welcome to the club.
- cosmicdancer
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Reply #35 - May 11, 2015, 12:13 AM

Quote from: Mira on May 10, 2015, 06:52 PM
Anyway, I'm sorry if that offended you in anyway. I wasn't defending Islam or Quran, I was just sharing my current thoughts and beliefs about it. I claim to know nothing.

You don't need to apologise, habibti. Bogart I'm sure understand where you're coming from
- zeca
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Reply #36 - May 11, 2015, 12:24 AM

Yes, there's no need to apologise. You're allowed to disagree and have your own opinion here. Welcome!

Which side are you on?
- Mira
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Reply #37 - May 11, 2015, 01:32 AM

Quote from: galfromusa on May 10, 2015, 08:51 PM
A lot of us have been through that. It's hard to reject everything you've ever believed overnight, and it's terrifying to look into the abyss that is the world outside what you were born and raised into and not know where to begin when it comes to knowing where to stand on every issue. Go at your own rate, don't feel rushed, it's ok to make mistakes or stumble around along the way, just learn from them and move on. It gets easier with more practice.

That's true. I think I'll take my time.

I chose Islam. Peace, it was nice to be here for a little while.
- Mira
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Reply #38 - May 11, 2015, 01:37 AM

Quote from: bogart on May 10, 2015, 11:51 PM
You can find an example here: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=27842.0

I know there are other examples but I am having trouble finding the threads, sorry. Maybe another member knows of the threads I can not find. You could just read Psalms or the Vedas. The Vedas make the same claim to divinity as the Quran as a work of the divine. People can issue the challenge to produce a verse like it which next to no one can meet as the language, Vedic Sanskrit, is a dead language. Matsya Avatar verses contain this claim.

You didn't offend me at all. It is just that the poetry topic is one that is repeated often and addressed just as often on the forums. Take a look at some of the threads in the Religion and Gods forums along with the Scripture Subform discussion verses and issues with verses especially Zaotar's work.

That really was similar to Quran ( the 1st video ). Nothing more to say.

Thanks, but I think I'll take it one step at a time.

I chose Islam. Peace, it was nice to be here for a little while.
- Mira
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Reply #39 - May 11, 2015, 01:37 AM

Quote from: Hassan on May 11, 2015, 12:13 AM
You don't need to apologise, habibti. Bogart I'm sure understand where you're coming from

Thanks Hassan

I chose Islam. Peace, it was nice to be here for a little while.
- Mira
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Reply #40 - May 11, 2015, 01:39 AM

Quote from: zeca on May 11, 2015, 12:24 AM
Yes, there's no need to apologise. You're allowed to disagree and have your own opinion here. Welcome!

I know I just don't like to be misunderstood. And, thanks!

I chose Islam. Peace, it was nice to be here for a little while.
- Mira
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Reply #41 - May 11, 2015, 01:44 AM

Quote from: Doubting Tomas on May 10, 2015, 11:57 PM
Hi Mira,
I've been coming across this 'Agnostic' adjective a lot recently but I can't think for the life of me why.
It is no doubt a worrying trend, I fear to think what a world where more people thought rationally and valued this life a little more over some promised - unprovable-magical-forever 'Happy land', might be like?
I jest of course, welcome to the club.

Hi Tomas,
Haha, that almost made me shut my brain out of depression, where the heck to go.
Thanks

I chose Islam. Peace, it was nice to be here for a little while.
- Quod Sum Eris
- King of the
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Reply #42 - May 11, 2015, 02:36 AM

Quote from: Mira on May 10, 2015, 12:29 PM
The thing is, Quran is really not any ordinary book. I always loved it despite it's dark side. It's just too powerful and has a strong impact on those who are open to it.

This in itself is down to the individual though, There are people who read the quran and do not experience this, while they do with another work of literature. It's not the book itself, it's the person.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- ElToro
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Reply #43 - May 11, 2015, 09:12 PM

Hi Mira,

welcome

I could recommend you some books to read in order to think about Islam:

- Peter Townsend: Questioning Islam: Tough Questions & Honest Answers About the Muslim Religion
- Ali Sina - Understanding Muhammad
- Safi Rahman - Islamist Delusion (he is a member of this forum)
- Ibn Warraq - Why I Am Not a Muslim

Also this book might help you:
- Leaving Your Religion from James Mulholland

Furthermore all videos of "The masked Arab":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ6c66G99A4
- Mira
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Reply #44 - May 12, 2015, 01:35 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 11, 2015, 02:36 AM
This in itself is down to the individual though, There are people who read the quran and do not experience this, while they do with another work of literature. It's not the book itself, it's the person.

That's very possible.

I chose Islam. Peace, it was nice to be here for a little while.
- Mira
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Reply #45 - May 12, 2015, 01:37 PM

Quote from: ElToro on May 11, 2015, 09:12 PM
Hi Mira,

welcome

I could recommend you some books to read in order to think about Islam:

- Peter Townsend: Questioning Islam: Tough Questions & Honest Answers About the Muslim Religion
- Ali Sina - Understanding Muhammad
- Safi Rahman - Islamist Delusion (he is a member of this forum)
- Ibn Warraq - Why I Am Not a Muslim

Also this book might help you:
- Leaving Your Religion from James Mulholland

Furthermore all videos of "The masked Arab":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ6c66G99A4

Hi ElToro,
Thanks a lot for all the books! I'll try and search for them. And I did see one video for "the masked Arab".

Thanks again.

I chose Islam. Peace, it was nice to be here for a little while.
- hatoush
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Reply #46 - May 13, 2015, 07:50 AM

Mira

just be careful, there is a huge difference between critics of religions from a scientific, secular perspective, and simply anti-Islam propaganda, there are a lot of evangelical group with the only aim is to discredit Islam and presented it as a false religion, and Muhammad as an imposer who simply borrow from the "real" Judeo-christian traditions.

in my own experience, I came to peace with Islam, for me it is just a cultural product of Arabia in the 7th century, there is nothing divine involved here, but i still appreciate surat Mariam as a wonderful poetry, even praying can be simply a form of meditation.

for the existence of God, this question is much more complex, and it has nothing to do with religion, choose whatever make you happy.
- Mira
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Reply #47 - May 13, 2015, 04:21 PM

Hi hatoush,

Thanks for the advice!

I thought about accepting Islam as cultural thing, but I couldn't do that since I'm still finding it to be truthful to some degree as my beliefs are so strong in it, that's why I'll call myself a "questioning Muslim" for now. I'm still in great struggle with my beliefs. Let's just say, I need time to be able to think properly about this. After all, I've been religious my whole life.

I guess you're right. I wish things were more easy. Anyway, thanks again.

I chose Islam. Peace, it was nice to be here for a little while.
- bogart
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Reply #48 - May 13, 2015, 05:56 PM

Quote from: Mira on May 11, 2015, 01:37 AM
That really was similar to Quran ( the 1st video ). Nothing more to say.

Thanks, but I think I'll take it one step at a time.

Take your time. This sort of process can never be rushed since religion helps form much of our identity. It is not just questioning a belief but questioning who you are and attempting to resolve who you want to be. Even now after years of leaving religion I can still appreciate parts of it's message. I just detach the divine claims from the message and focus only on what the message is trying to communicate as an idea.
- Mira
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Reply #49 - May 18, 2015, 02:44 PM

Thanks Bogart.

I chose Islam. Peace, it was nice to be here for a little while.
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