divorce and children

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Reply #60 - May 21, 2015, 03:28 PM

Quote from: lua on May 21, 2015, 03:22 PM
He's still a walking skeleton, scarcely ten pounds heavier than me and a head taller. His mother and I would both be doomed, and we'd probably take his arms with us.

Get was the key word in that sentence, for those having difficulty with reading comprehension.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #61 - May 21, 2015, 03:30 PM

Girl it's never gonna happen, I've been feeding that man enough to feed an army and he still looks like a haunted house prop.
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Reply #62 - May 21, 2015, 04:35 PM

Welcom brother
I just thought I'd pitch in at this point and mention that I can relate to some of the situation your going through right now. While my wife stand point is clearly less extreme than yours, apostacy is still the line in the sand. I don't have much time right now to get into advice but I'll have a proper read of your story and the comments on this thread, mull them over and get back to you with any ideas when I can, that is assuming I have any thing helpful to add.
Long story short, I'm currently playing the waiting game with my kids, I want to spend as much time with them now as I can while it's possible and maybe help shape the way the look on life. At least when they're older they'll know me and perhaps maybe think kindly of me at least enough to want to have me in their lives.
As it is for my wife's religious views, well I can scoff at them or even gently tease her about them but dare I suggest I'm not in the club . . . it would probably be curtains (flight/abscond risk)? Things are okay for us at the moment but thoughts of the whole Ramadan experience always make me anxious, otherwise unless her more pious family have special plans for me in the future we'll be alright for the moment. Last time I caught up with some of her family, not too long ago they were alright so hopeful things stay like that with them.
Anyway I digress, hope to get back to you soon and hope you find away to get through your trying situation.
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Reply #63 - May 21, 2015, 07:45 PM

Quod sum eris yes you are right you could argue that it is unislamic but as with just about everything in Islam you could find a hadith or ayat to argue the opposite such as don't make friends with Jews and Christians etc

As for how I became muslim that is long on my phone but I will give it a shot.

I was lost spiritually falling into bad company etc I was looking for good people, but also in persuit of the truth about who we are why we're here etc. After 911 I was into conspiracy stuff and watching loose change etc was convinced 911 was a false flag operation. I believed dark forces behind neo cons agenda planning new world order etc. So I had my bad guys, so the ones they want to kill must be the good guys yeah a little naive in retrospect lol. So I started to look into muslims and what they believed unfortunately not deep enough. Read some stuff watched some harUn yah yah and like a sucker I was soon enough caught hook line and sinker. Watched some intelligent design stuff Mike Behe etc became convinced evolution theory was lies and got stuck into worshipping allah thinking he was the intelligent designer. Is that crazy?
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Reply #64 - May 21, 2015, 07:52 PM

Thanks doubting tomas I see you're situation is very similar I am also very concerned about playing a part in shaping my kids world view. What kids believe when they are young can be very hard to shake off. I am worried about madrassa customers the wife wants to start sending my 5 year old now. Obviously I am dead against it. But what can I do? Have you had to deal with madrassa?
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Reply #65 - May 21, 2015, 07:54 PM

Courage doesn’t always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, “I will try again tomorrow.

Sometimes a girl has to be like the snow, beautiful, but cold...
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Reply #66 - May 21, 2015, 08:10 PM

Quote from: lightbringer on May 21, 2015, 07:45 PM
Is that crazy?

No.
Quote from: lightbringer on May 21, 2015, 07:52 PM
But what can I do?

Do you think you could go the route I suggested?

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 20, 2015, 08:32 PM
As far as indoctrination goes, would it be possible to go the poetic metaphorical route? Like evolution for instance. Adam was created the same way as Jesus. Jesus came out of a womb. So Adam had a mother. Also the quran says all life comes from water. Adam and Eve weren't the first humans, they were the first muslims, or they were the first to have human souls, or something along those lines?

How of you think it would go if you said to your wife the quran isn't a science book, it's a holy book, meant to give us an understanding of our place in the world, our relationship with allah, our reason for being?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #67 - May 21, 2015, 10:16 PM

My wife has a very literal understanding of Islam and what she believes is going to be very difficult to alter. If Quran says Allah created Adam and Eve out of clay / water / clot of blood etc etc then that is exactly what happened no question about it.
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Reply #68 - May 21, 2015, 10:20 PM

And the fact the quran says all life came from water and that Adam was created the same way as Jesus? Jesus who of course was born.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #69 - May 21, 2015, 10:26 PM

Show her this Khutbah by a great, learned and devilishly good-looking Sheikh about how the story of Adam and Eve is an allegory for evolution.

http://agnosticmuslimkhutbahs.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/the-story-of-adam-eve-in-quran.html?m=1
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Reply #70 - May 21, 2015, 10:33 PM

Yeabbut, the problems all lie in the ahadith. They are pretty explicit in their simple, literal, explanation of how Allah fashioned Adam from clay and breathed life into him, etc, etc.

And in traditional Sunni Islam, not believing the ahadith is like not believing the Qur'an. I remember once years ago as a Muslim I heard someone comment that they "don't give a damn about the sunnah." I essentially took it as a statement of disbelief and wondered how they even call themselves Muslims. It was one of those "authubillah!!" moments where I wouldn't have been surprised if thunderbolts came down.

So yeah, the whole non-literal approach is great for people who can move beyond the confines of traditional Sunni Islam, but for most, you might as well say you believe in the Book of Mormon.
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Reply #71 - May 21, 2015, 10:48 PM

True.

Though in our day it was virtually unheard of to find Muslims who reject hadith. Now it is becoming more and more common. Since most people, sadly, are like sheep, once you have some moving in a different direction others will follow.

Its those first ones that it is difficult to find. Which is why I'm giving them a bit of support
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Reply #72 - May 22, 2015, 01:55 AM

Quote from: lua on May 21, 2015, 03:30 PM
Girl it's never gonna happen, I've been feeding that man enough to feed an army and he still looks like a haunted house prop.

I understand this problem. What you need is ice cream. Like a nightly ritual of eating ice cream.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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Reply #73 - May 22, 2015, 09:35 AM

^There was this news article on tv a few days ago claiming that eating ice cream at bed time can help you lose weight lol.. didnt manage to catch the reasons why though
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Reply #74 - May 22, 2015, 09:49 AM

Quote from: lightbringer on May 21, 2015, 07:52 PM
Thanks doubting tomas I see you're situation is very similar I am also very concerned about playing a part in shaping my kids world view. What kids believe when they are young can be very hard to shake off. I am worried about madrassa customers the wife wants to start sending my 5 year old now. Obviously I am dead against it. But what can I do? Have you had to deal with madrassa?

You mean school ? you could tell her that you are concerned that the education at the madrasa school may not be up to the standards of a public school, but mind you, you are in Leicester they probably have good islamic schools there i am not sure. Mine went to private Islamic school for a while and the education was abysmal due to severe lack of funding. Anyways, some islamic schools are fine and teach the ordinary curriculum.
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Reply #75 - May 22, 2015, 10:26 AM

we have some Islamic full time school's but most kids go to public school during the day and then go for a further 2 hours purely Islamic schooling daily. Firstly I think this is too much for a five year old. Secondly, obviously I don't want my kids indoctrinated and taught to be prejudiced against non muslims like their own dad. Even worse is I am going to have to pay for it lol.
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Reply #76 - May 22, 2015, 10:36 AM

Oh you mean the after school classes, well you could always offer to teach them quran yourself at the masjid or at home, if you can muster up the enthusiasm that is lol or leave it to someone else.. Just make sure the teacher doesn't physically discipline your kids, i had to tell our teacher not discipline mine as he used to hit all the kids with the end of an electric plug

I personally wouldn't worry too much about the classes, perhaps others here would disagree.. i just saw it as good training for my kids brains to memorize all those words lol, and when they ever came home with any religious bs they were told at the class, i would give my alternative view to keep them a bit open minded about things, it's tough but its just about all we can do in these situations.
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Reply #77 - May 22, 2015, 02:07 PM

Good advice Suki, re; giving the kid an alternative view to the bs when they get home. To be honest I'm not overly worried about the whole madrassa thing, while it's probably inevitable at some stage, my eldest will be 7 this year and has already developed a certain amout of critical thinking skills and cynicism so I think he'll be okay.
My wife has recently got some pressure from her family but they're back in Asia many thousands of miles away, so what can they do for now, phew.
I think the plan is to send em at some stage later this year, it will only be for an couple of hours on weekends and given my kid's reluctants to engage in the extra cirricular, built in bs radar, listening to beardo's lecturing him on fairy tales hopefully won't have too much of a profound effect on the poor child. The main purpose for me is that it would give him a basic understanding of the faith and hopefully keep the inlaws of our backs.
What I'm more concerned about is the attending of a christian based faith school, currently the kid doesn't know that they're are different religious, my worry is that they'll want to be Christian like the rest of the kids in the class and when we begin to teach them about the whole muslim thing, they may even become overly negative to the old 'Slam, which wouldn't neccesarily be a good thing either? Apologies if I'm a little vague on the details, I don't like disclosing too much informationn on public forums so feel free to PM if your looking for further insight.
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Reply #78 - May 22, 2015, 02:26 PM

Quote from: lightbringer on May 21, 2015, 07:45 PM

As for how I became muslim that is long on my phone but I will give it a shot.
After 911 I was into conspiracy stuff and watching loose change etc was convinced 911 was a false flag operation.

Btw f**kin Alex Jones . . . he has a lot to answer for lol.
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Reply #79 - May 22, 2015, 06:52 PM

^Oh that makes it a lot more confusing for you, an Islamochristian education lol, good luck with it..
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Reply #80 - May 23, 2015, 11:31 PM

Dear Lightbringer!

I have read about your difficulties, and the good advices you got. Your wife sounds very much as my ex-husband, controlling, jealous, paranoid, literal interpretation of islam and so on. My ex-husband could argu about things for months, just as your wife. There was no way for me to talk to him or change his mind. Never. Some people just don't listen, don't ever change.

I was thinking for 2 years how to get out of my marriage. Finally, I took my 3 daughters and left our home (fled) to a women's shelter. But, unfortunately, some friends to my ex convinced me to let him see the Girls (they told me he had cancer!), and now they are in his home country, Libya. (The good thing is that my ex returned to Sweden and the police took him, now he is sentenced 2 years in prison. But the Girls are still in Libya, alone with relatives they hardly know).

So, actually I don't have any good advice to give you, since my own Life has become a disaster. But I understand your situation, and it is so very difficult for you, really. Best thing is to give your Children quality time, and try to teach them critical thinking, if possible. And, to take precaution, be very clever, as all the previous advices.
I wish all the best!
Best regards
- suki
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Reply #81 - May 24, 2015, 09:15 AM

^ have you got any chance of getting your kids back coffee addict ?
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Reply #82 - May 24, 2015, 09:19 AM

^ sorry, ignore that post, i see you have already mentioned it on another thread..

: )
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Reply #83 - May 25, 2015, 04:26 PM

HI

very infomative and helpful advices

i am a new exmuslim and my wife doesn't know yet. she is not in the UK at the moment but soon will be joining me.

and me too came to the same conclusion that I can't expect everyone or anyone to change or understand me......there is no other way to make it work but to become a secular muslim and holding on to your family

after all we do not want to lose all the good things in the culture or society...

as long as people think you are a muslim they can accept you as a fornicator, alcoholic, not praying.....even cruel, dishonest or corrupt person in the society......but if you start declaring yourself kafir.......... they just can't handle it no matter how nice and fair you are.......

and its not giving up or caving in.....in my point of view.....its playing smart...........

those who are from the indian subcontinent may know ALLAMA IQBAL and ASHFAQ AHMAD legendary highly inteclectual philosophers in the muslim world considered saints..............

But i think If i am smart enough to find the truth of islam how couldn't they........

maybe they did but were smart enough to realize how to make their message listened and remembered in a society less educated and extremely emotional, instead of being labelled kafir, demonised and having their writtings ignored and lost.

If you read any of their stuff now keep this in mind and you will feel it..
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