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 Topic: WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY

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  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     OP - May 26, 2015, 07:42 AM
    "In modern science, and I include the humanities here, science in a German sense of science—rigorous scholarship across all domains—in modern science we've gotten used to the idea that science doesn't offer meaning in the way that institutional religions did in the past. I'm increasingly thinking that this idea that modernity puts us in a world without meaning—philosophers have banged on about this for a century-and-a-half—may be completely wrong. We may be living in an intellectual building site, where a new story is being constructed. It's vastly more powerful than the previous stories because it's the first one that is global. It's not anchored in a particular culture or a particular society. This is an origin story that works for humans in Beijing as well as in Buenos Aires "


    http://edge.org/conversation/david_christian-we-need-a-modern-origin-story-a-big-history
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #1 - May 26, 2015, 08:36 AM
    Interesting article.
    Which side are you on?
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #2 - May 26, 2015, 08:46 AM
    Zeca

    i know it will sounds a weird question, but let me try this.

    does it bother you that it seems this life has no purpose ?  does science or philosophy can give a competing answer, I know a lot of atheist dismiss those kind of questions.

    I am no more convinced by the religion narrative, but  at least it try to give us a comforting answer  !!!!!
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #3 - May 26, 2015, 10:22 AM
    Quote
    does it bother you that it seems this life has no purpose?

    Personally it doesn't really bother me now. Forty years ago I think it did and I guess I found some purpose and meaning in political ideology and activism, which, being realistic, can serve some of the same psychological and social functions as religion. As to whether science or philosophy can give a competing answer I'm not sure, but maybe they can. I can certainly see the sense in teaching children as if they could.
    Which side are you on?
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #4 - May 26, 2015, 10:38 AM
    Quote from: hatoush on May 26, 2015, 07:42 AM
    , science in a German sense of science—rigorous scholarship across all domains—

    I have a friend, a social scientist from Cambridge, who doesn't think the Germans are remotely rigorous. She worked there for two years.
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #5 - May 26, 2015, 10:42 AM
    Quote from: hatoush on May 26, 2015, 07:42 AM
    ....

    http://edge.org/conversation/david_christian-we-need-a-modern-origin-story-a-big-history


    I casually read through the link .. It has some nuggets hatoush

    Quote
    ..........In the present state of science this is a story that has a beginning, and of course, cosmologists are trying to look beyond that beginning. As I understand it, at the moment there's no hard data that takes you beyond the big bang. So here's a starting point: Could you teach a history course that began with the origins of the universe? That would be the way to give a sense of humanity as a single species facing shared problems in the modern world.......

    Well if all high schools start teaching   history course  with the origins of the universe which is essentially a branch of physical sciences,  I wonder what they will teach in religious History , history of god, temples, mosques, churches..etc..etc..

    That would be end of all silly religions and their scriptures..

     
    Quote from: hatoush on May 26, 2015, 08:46 AM
    Zeca

    i know it will sounds a weird question, but let me try this.

    does it bother you that it seems this life has no purpose ? does science or philosophy can give a competing answer, I know a lot of atheist dismiss those kind of questions..........


    hatoush I guess you are asking about Human life... Specifically individual human lives ...

    I am sure you know  "Life is a Life"  whether it is human life or animal life or life in ocean or life of some bacteria , Life of a Plant .

    So the first purpose of of life is  living and that goes to all life forms...  and that is the simplest answer.,  Now what do we do with our individual life within our life time    is a different question.,   It is a big beast with zillion   answers..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #6 - May 26, 2015, 10:58 AM
    suppose a better question would be about the purpose of exitsence in general.
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #7 - May 26, 2015, 04:29 PM
    That assumes there is one.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #8 - May 26, 2015, 04:38 PM
    I think Hegel already did this project.
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #9 - May 26, 2015, 06:51 PM
    This concept that life is meaningless without a creator God, I’ve never really understood it. But I think it is mainly said by people that were raised religious. I was not raised with religion and to me it seems that the opposite is true: If there is a creator God, and this Universe is just his artificial testing ground, then what we do here doesn’t really matter because none of it is real. It is like the difference between playing in the real World Cup and playing Fifa on your PlayStation, the former obviously has more meaning.
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #10 - May 26, 2015, 07:02 PM
    The big bang, beginning of life on earth, our evolution from simple singled celled organisms, the whole thing is one hell of an origin story. Don't really see why you'd want to sex it up.  Huh?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #11 - May 26, 2015, 07:06 PM
    A Doctor Who fan would understand.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #12 - May 26, 2015, 10:52 PM
    Fascinating article Hatoush. Thanks for sharing .

    I believe humanity desperately needs a new and truly universal and unifying narrative as religion is not only divisive - it is dying.

    But I'm not convinced this Big History will work as well as religion has. It doesn't provide an entirely satisfying meaning. Not one that will motivate and drive people as myths about gods,  afterlifes,  rewards and justice do.

    No one is going to sacrifice their life for the Big Bang.
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #13 - May 26, 2015, 10:55 PM
    Quote from: hatoush on May 26, 2015, 08:46 AM
    I am no more convinced by the religion narrative, but  at least it try to give us a comforting answer  !!!!!


    Precisely!
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #14 - May 26, 2015, 11:08 PM
    Quote from: zeca on May 26, 2015, 10:22 AM
    Personally it doesn't really bother me now. Forty years ago I think it did and I guess I found some purpose and meaning in political ideology and activism, which, being realistic, can serve some of the same psychological and social functions as religion. As to whether science or philosophy can give a competing answer I'm not sure, but maybe they can. I can certainly see the sense in teaching children as if they could.


    Many people seem quite happy without obsessing about some greater metaphysical meaning or transcendental  truth. For me I find it difficult to let go of such things.

    Maybe I belong to a dying generation and man is evolving the capacity to do without such crutches.
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #15 - May 26, 2015, 11:43 PM
    I think it's more how you go about it. There's a very deep need for spirituality in human beings, and it's obvious that the soul needs nourishment. Art, poetry, music, nature, these things are incredibly important to the mental and emotional well being of humans.

    I wasn't being completely humorous with my Doctor Who comment. One of the reasons it's so popular with the non religious is it's blend of humanism and a sort of scientific spiritual narrative. David Tennent could speak about the big bang and the formation of the Earth in such a poetic way it'd bring a tear to your eye, and the focus on probability, hope, right and wrong has had such an impact on the religious and the none religious.

    I think this is simply the start of something that will become more and more common. It's not that you're a dying breed, it's that the way we get this comfort that will take different forms.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #16 - May 27, 2015, 02:13 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 26, 2015, 11:08 PM
    Many people seem quite happy without obsessing about some greater metaphysical meaning or transcendental  truth. For me I find it difficult to let go of such things.


    What exactly is "transcendental truth"? Can you define it? Is it just a fancy way of saying believing in bullshit? What exactly is so inspiring about religious beliefs? Do you not find the very complex stories that scientists are discovering about our origins, and all of the different species that rose and fell to give way to us over millions of years to be 1,000 times more interesting and inspiring than the story of Adam and Eve and Noah's flood?

    We are a very young species, we have only been here for about 100,000 years, which is a blink of an eye compared to how long many other species have been here, and even though we have already achieved so much. We are still really at the very beginning of what we will achieve, we are only just beginning to learn about our universe.
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #17 - May 27, 2015, 05:13 AM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1RqTP5Unr4

    but for me it is does bother me not knowing, and somehow i regret my previous certainty even if they were wrong :(
    but unfortunately, you can't go back, once you start doubting, it is a slippery slop
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #18 - May 27, 2015, 08:21 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 26, 2015, 11:08 PM
    Many people seem quite happy without obsessing about some greater metaphysical meaning or transcendental  truth. For me I find it difficult to let go of such things.

    Maybe I belong to a dying generation and man is evolving the capacity to do without such crutches.


    yep, i cannot imagine letting go, it would be like dying a death inside me, but i believe that humans possess an innate spirituality, so i haven't lost too much hope lol
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #19 - May 27, 2015, 08:28 AM
    Judging by history man has always needed some greater meaning beyond the often harsh and cruel reality he finds himself in.

    I do think man is on the cusp of another evolutionary step forward but have no idea what that entails, but I would hazard a guess that a new more universal form of spirituality tied to reason and logic may come about.
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #20 - May 27, 2015, 11:25 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 27, 2015, 08:28 AM
    Judging by history man has always needed some greater meaning beyond the often harsh and cruel reality he finds himself in.

    I do think man is on the cusp of another evolutionary step forward but have no idea what that entails, but I would hazard a guess that a new more universal form of spirituality tied to reason and logic may come about.


    And as a skeptic, I would be very suspicious and buzzkilly about that as well.  Tongue
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #21 - May 27, 2015, 11:36 AM
    Well skeptics have always existed too of course. I see no reason to doubt that the future will contain a similar mixture of those inclined to some sort of spirituality and those skeptical of such things.

    I think it very unlikely that it will be all one or the other as many from each group often hope for.
  • WE NEED A MODERN ORIGIN STORY: A BIG HISTORY
     Reply #22 - May 27, 2015, 12:43 PM
    Quote from: hatoush on May 27, 2015, 05:13 AM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1RqTP5Unr4

    but for me it is does bother me not knowing, and somehow i regret my previous certainty even if they were wrong :(
    but unfortunately, you can't go back, once you start doubting, it is a slippery slop

    Thank you for making me remember Feynman hatoush... Great man.. great teacher.. and great mind.. Really CEMB needs some folder for people like that., Posts on him are scattered all over., in fact When I used to write in to FFI , I put all his lectures., tubes books in to one folder.. but..Alas that disappeared...  

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKTSaezB4p8

    juice..juice..juice.. Juiccceeeey juice  watch it..  and watch his lecture of  1979

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLQ2atfqk2c
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
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