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Theme Changer

 Topic: Dune

 (Read 3612 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Dune
     OP - June 06, 2015, 07:28 PM
    New Avatar: the arrogant Guildsman from the "Dune" miniseries. (I'd have chosen Muad'dib but I'm not that arrogant. Plus Muad'dib had better hair, especially in the Lynch version.)

    There is an excellent webpage here on the Islamic influences on Frank Herbert's original: "Khalid", Arabic and Islamic themes in Frank Herbert's "Dune"

    I think Herbert's vision becomes even more "prophetic" (in Islamic scholarship) where you consider that there really wasn't a Sasanian Empire anymore after Heraclius suckerpunched it. Certainly that was part of Heraclius's propaganda, as seen in the Alexander Neshana: Kevin van Bladel, “The Alexander legend in the Qur‘an 18:83-102″, in "The Qur’ān in Its Historical Context", Ed. Gabriel Said Reynolds, (New York: Routledge, 2007). The analogy doesn't quite hold up given that the Heracleids were later able to hold the line under Constans II, and more so under Constantine IV; but in SF analogies don't have to be perfect (and really shouldn't be).

    It's also interesting that Muad'dib's religious message seemed like it was foreign to the Fremen themselves, and had built on centuries of Imperial propaganda. There's an argument to be made in history that the Arabs had been primed to accept a quasi-Christian message, so that the Byzantines could use them for a holy war on the Iranians. Things don't always work out as planned though...
  • Dune
     Reply #1 - June 07, 2015, 11:06 PM
    I keep meaning to check this series out.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Dune
     Reply #2 - June 07, 2015, 11:52 PM
    Watch the movie, made for TV movie and series first. Less anger that way.

    @Zim

    The Freemen were supposed to be closer to Jews than Arabs. Their religion is that of mystic Islam and Buddhism. The interactions between the Freemen and the Imperium are far more similar to Exodus and the Messiah concepts.

     I like the mix compared to a very Christian dominated stories which are far more numerous Western fiction. Also the fact that what would be identified as the West fell long ago to it's own greed which turned on them
  • Dune
     Reply #3 - June 08, 2015, 12:31 AM
    Oh, I don't think I was ever angry - although I admit to giggling a little at both. The Lynch movie had ham acting and weird costumes - and Sting(!). The miniseries was filmed in the Valley Of Cheap Special Effects and as for the costumes, well... here's my avatar.

    Someone could do a really excellent parody of Dune if they brought the ham acting, Sting, funny outfits and bad CGI together into one movie.
  • Dune
     Reply #4 - June 08, 2015, 03:28 AM
    I think Dune really needs a remake into a Trilogy of the first books. 

    I was referring to how many people feel movies based on books miss important parts. Hence the movie first would prevent this since Quod would not know it having read the book later.
  • Dune
     Reply #5 - June 15, 2015, 11:38 PM
    I think Lynch tried his best to be true to the book, whereas I cannot say the same for the miniseries. I do appreciate the length of it, but there was a great deal of license taken with the characters and even some of the plot. I suppose that is a given with movies, but it was still hard for me to watch variances from the literature.

    I have to point out that Maud'dib's religious message WAS foreign to the Fremen, because he was using concepts planted by the Missionaria Protectiva. So though it was marginally familiar, it was not native. As the Kwisatz Haderach, of course, he had full access and knowledge of this program, its intention, and how to reap the benefits of it.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Dune
     Reply #6 - June 16, 2015, 12:20 AM
    The Kwisatz Haderach was a major break from the current religions the books used. It is like a eugenic messiah more than a religious one. The Fremen were useful pawns more than a major part of the Kwisatz Haderach goals and purpose.
  • Dune
     Reply #7 - June 16, 2015, 01:24 AM
    I saw him as a prescient human who used religion and the Missionaria Protectiva as tools. I think I recall Dune mentioning that he, after much pondering, introduced himself as a religious figure to the masses despite having seen other paths he might take, but due to prescience, saw the religious path as the most effective for his aims.
    I did not recall much detail in religious belief, not enough to draw conclusions on tenets and practices. The OC and the Zensunni practice did not seem to me to share much with their supposed origins.
    I think that without the Fremen's zeal in sacking worlds the Golden Path could not be laid. So yes, they were pawns, but I thought them essential (initially). The only other army that could be so effective was the Sardauker, and he was not in a position to utilize them as well as the Fremen, I am sure it would have taken longer to use the former, since they would not have the religious zeal.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Dune
     Reply #8 - June 16, 2015, 01:49 AM
    My favourite character was always Duncan Idaho.
  • Dune
     Reply #9 - June 16, 2015, 02:06 AM
    As well it should have been. He was definitely worth recreating.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
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