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Theme Changer

 Topic: Greek island refugee crisis

 (Read 122262 times)
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  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #120 - June 18, 2015, 05:20 PM

    The better way is Greece and then northern Europe, clearly... But if they are stuck in Greece then better Turkey than Greece IMO.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #121 - June 18, 2015, 06:31 PM

    A reasonable position would've been for Gulf/Iran to take in the millions of refugees from Syria and US/UK/Denmark and the rest of the coalition of the willing to take in the millions of refugees from Iraq. Those countries involved in destroying the infrastructure,life,wealth and the political stability of the wartorn countries are especially responsible.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #122 - June 18, 2015, 06:46 PM

    Report from the islands of Kos and Leros from a few weeks ago: http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-migrant-crisis-on-greeces-islands

    The 'push back' policy under the previous government (2014): http://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/greeces-policy-violently-pushing-back-syrian-refugees-condemned-new-report
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #123 - June 18, 2015, 07:50 PM

    I really wonder if this policy of 'push back' has changed with the actual government. Me think not.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #124 - June 18, 2015, 07:57 PM

    A reasonable position would've been for Gulf/Iran to take in the millions of refugees from Syria and US/UK/Denmark and the rest of the coalition of the willing to take in the millions of refugees from Iraq. Those countries involved in destroying the infrastructure,life,wealth and the political stability of the wartorn countries are especially responsible.


    I can't disagree with this. 
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #125 - June 18, 2015, 08:16 PM

    ............. millions of refugees    and US/UK/.......................

     
    Yap millions of millions of refugees    and  beacons of democracy with freedom and freedom of expression The  US/UK/....

    well this   zeca   link    says
    Quote
    Most of those who arrive in Kos and Leros are Syrians who have passports. “The Afghans, the Iraqis, they don’t have anything on them,” Giorgos Georgakakos, Kos’s police chief, said. “So we don’t know if the Afghans are actually Iranians or the Iraqis are actually Lebanese.” Once they are fingerprinted and registered, they receive temporary residency permits that allow them to stay legally in Greece for one to six months. They’re welcome to apply for asylum, although most move on to other countries or stay in Greece and work illegall


    Before that Afghan War that started by AMRIKA through Islamic heroes in 1989 and propelled that Taliban government to rule Afghanistan not even a single Afghan moved  out of Afghanistan ...After Taliban,  after that 9/11 and after  AMRIKA along with TAILBONES destroying everything in that country ..people have to move to other lands..

    Same problem in Iraq.. destabilizing Middle east and Libya, Syria, Iraq squarely falls on the shoulder of  beacons of democracy AMRIKA and Its poodle UK governments.
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #126 - June 18, 2015, 08:20 PM

    I really wonder if this policy of 'push back' has changed with the actual government. Me think not.

    As far as I can make out the policy has changed and the Greek Coast Guards have been behaving fairly well recently. Then again I wouldn't be too surprised to hear of exceptions to this.

    Quote
    The better way is Greece and then northern Europe, clearly... But if they are stuck in Greece then better Turkey than Greece IMO.

    This article on refugees in Athens doesn't make it sound too good: http://www.globalresearch.ca/refugees-in-the-centre-of-athens/5455986
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #127 - June 18, 2015, 08:44 PM

    I'm not sure this is really on-topic but I found it interesting - an article on the population exchange in the 1920s and the maintenance of refugee identities on the island of Chios.

    Alice James - Memories of Anatolia : generating Greek refugee identity: http://balkanologie.revues.org/pdf/720

    I saw a report in Greek a day or two ago about the Pontic students association in Thessaloniki organising food for refugees there, so the identification between the Greek refugee identity and today's refugees does seem to exist. (The Pontic Greeks came from the Black Sea coast around Trabzon in the population exchange)
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #128 - June 18, 2015, 10:23 PM

    This article on refugees in Athens doesn't make it sound too good: http://www.globalresearch.ca/refugees-in-the-centre-of-athens/5455986


    Depressing. I mean it can't go worse with Turkey, at least I hope... It looks for me as madness if you go to Greece and you don't have money to pay smugglers to get you through Macedonia and Serbia. But this route could be closed as I heard that Hungary plans to build a wall at the Serbian border.
    It's clear that Greece lacks the will and the resources to handle this.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #129 - June 19, 2015, 03:20 PM

    https://www.facebook.com/HelpForRefugeesInMolyvos/posts/117529808581885?fref=nf
    Quote from: Help for refugees in Molyvos
    Yesterday we fed 68 at the school and gave them hats before they started they walk to Mytilene. A small bus from the police came and picked up the families.

    In the harbour we fed 67 breakfast, lunch and dinner. 49 had spent the night. At 21.00 they were informed that a bus was coming for them to take them to Moiria and would arrive in about one hour. It took a longer than that but at least they had time to clear up the place where they had stayed. It then started to rain so we handed out rubbish bags for their walk up the hill.

    Today 38 arrived. Theo took a whole family of 7 with new born and small children. They had left Pakistan one month ago and paid 60,000 dollars. He was a banker and spoke very good English. He left because he was afraid that he or his family would be killed. He did not know where he had arrived to. And where are you going? Theo asked. To anywhere that I can live without fear.



    More reports from Lesvos

    http://www.680news.com/2015/06/19/idyllic-greek-island-swamped-by-refugee-flood-just-as-resources-strained-by-financial-crisis/

    http://www.globalpost.com/article/6586557/2015/06/18/greek-islanders-are-breaking-law-help-desperate-migrants-arriving



    MSF report from Kos: http://www.msf.org/article/greece-no-welcome-migrants-and-refugees-landing-greek-dodecanese-islands
    Quote
    ....
    I have worked in many refugee camps before, in Yemen, Malawi, and Angola. But here on the island of Kos, this is the first time in my life that I have seen people so totally abandoned.
    ....



    Macedonia: http://townhall.com/news/politics-elections/2015/06/18/macedonia-allows-migrants-to-legitimately-transit-country-n2014491
    Quote
    Macedonia changed its asylum law on Thursday to let migrants entering the country illegally avoid jail if they leave within three days.
    ....
    Macedonia has become a major transit route for thousands of Middle Eastern and African refugees and migrants who cross over from Greece and then continue into Serbia. At least 25 have been killed by trains since January as they walked on railway tracks. Many others are robbed by criminal gangs.

    The new law approved in parliament on Thursday will come into effect in eight days, and follows pressure from human rights groups. It allows migrants to apply for temporary asylum at the border or the nearest police station. That will allow them to travel legally through the country for three days.

    Interior Minister Mitko Cavkov told lawmakers that the number of migrants has tripled since last year — with 2,000 to 3,000 people trying to enter every day — and criticized neighboring Greece for letting thousands flow clandestinely across the border.
    .....

  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #130 - June 19, 2015, 09:35 PM

    The Telegraph on the Greek debt crisis: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11687229/Greek-debt-crisis-is-the-Iraq-War-of-finance.html
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #131 - June 20, 2015, 10:06 PM

    'Brick wall'
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zpvE2oX7yfI&feature=youtu.be

    Report from Lesvos in the Independent: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/lesvos-visiting-the-tiny-greek-island-receiving-tens-of-thousands-of-refugees-10334359.html

    Refugee Solidarity Movement Thessaloniki: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Refugee-Solidarity-Movement-Thessaloniki/1638025606411034?sk=timeline
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #132 - June 21, 2015, 12:45 PM

    https://mobile.twitter.com/teacherdude/status/612581716058894336
    Quote
    Refugees are at a loss to understand why they can't travel by bus/train from Thessaloniki.Another victory for traffickers thanks to police.

    Photo report from Macedonia: http://www.rferl.org/media/photogallery/macedonia-migrants-syria/27075371.html
    Quote
    Every week, thousands of migrants cross through Macedonia with the hope of eventually reaching the border of the European Union. They come from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Yemen, and West African countries, among others, often entering Macedonia from Greece. The government in Skopje has forbidden illegal migrants from using public transportation, and private drivers fear being charged with human trafficking, so most people in transit are forced to go by foot or bicycle.
    ....

  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #133 - June 21, 2015, 12:58 PM

    Paul Mason: Greece – five pictures of a troubled country
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #134 - June 21, 2015, 04:14 PM

    Operation Sinbad: direct help for refugees on Lesvos
    Quote
    06/21/2015
    by Sheba Gray
    Hello
    I have been in Lesvos for two days. During this time the coastguards rescued around 160 people in four dinghies, who without their help probably haven't survived. Three of these rescues happened at night, incredibly difficult as to see these small boats in the dark is very hard. I have mets many dedicated people that give so much of their time, energy and money to help as the refugees arrived exhausted from their journey from Afganistan, Syria and other places. They were stressed and exhausted before they left, leaving a homes and wars where their lives were in great danger then have taken perilous journeys overland to reach the Turkish shore. These displaced people are the extorted by people traffickers who charge at least€1000 each to overcrowd then onto dinghies that are hardly suitable to cross the sea with 5 people let alone with 40/50men women and children whose ages range from 0 upwards. Most have never been on the sea, do not swim and travel at night or early morning. An extremely frightening experience. If they make it to the shore unaided some are met by kind and dedicated residents, such as Eric and Phillipa Kempson who are up on the hill watching out for them every morning before six. Although they have been banned from the beaches for helping refugees they still watch and call the coastguard if the see a boat struggling. They then go into town to give food and water and other essentials such as nappies and sanitary items. There is another support group that come later with sandwiches and food and also have a temporary shelter if anyone has to stay overnight. Although the refugees are worn out they are so elated to arrive but are vastly unprepared for what lies ahead. Most are expected to walk 70km to the port although women and children or the old and disabled are sometimes offered lifts by tourists and residents that defy the law which currently does not allow anyone to do this.  Today I met some beautiful families from Afghanistan and Syria. Such adorable children, it's is heartbreaking. So far Operation Sinbad, with the incredible help from supporters ha bought 100 sun hats, 100 emergency blankets and some umbrellas. We have also put €440 into the local shop so food and other supplies can be purchased for them. I currently have another €400 to spend and I shall look at doing this in the best way that will aid the refugees. We have promised €450 to the people that are assisting and feeding refugees in Thessaloniki as after a couple of weeks, the refugees leave the cramped and dirty camps and make their way north to try and reach Germany and other destinations. These journeys are fraught with danger and I have heard of many getting kidnapped and abused as they try and travel through Macadonia. Hungary is building a fence to keep them out and they are vulnerable to thieves and many evil people on route. Please visit my Facebook page Pen It for photos and other updates. We cannot solve the problem but we can help some and that is surely something everyone I have helped are so grateful and so good for everyone that has supported this operation so far. XXXX Sheba

  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #135 - June 21, 2015, 08:55 PM

    Greek-speaking enclaves in Lebanon and Syria

    Cretan Muslims (wiki)

    The last of the Cretan Muslims between the Empire and the Nation-State

    The Muslim communities in Kos and Rhodes

    Longing for their homeland, no matter which side of the Aegean
    Quote
    Before the bloody nationalistic conflicts of the 20th century, there was a world of empires, when ethnic coexistence gave rise to a fleeting era of cosmopolitanism that was doomed to end in death and displacement. The latter is the sober theme of a new documentary by Maria Iliou which sheds light on the forced exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. The film, “From Both Sides of the Aegean: Expulsion and Exchange of Populations, Turkey-Greece: 1922-1924,” recently screened at New York City’s Quad Cinema, is the second part of a trilogy which started with the destruction of the city of Smyrna in 1922.

    In this documentary, which follows “Smyrna: The Destruction of a Cosmopolitan City – 1900-1922,” Iliou tells the story of what followed: the first compulsory “exchange of populations” in the modern world, in which 1.2 million Greek Orthodox and 400,000 Muslims were forcibly relocated from Turkey to Greece and Greece to Turkey respectively. According to the documentary’s historical consultant, Alexander Kitroeff, the history of the population exchanges is the story of the 20th century: “All the wars and revolutions of the 20th century, apart from the millions of victims and the destruction, resulted in a large-scale displacement of populations.” He mentions “the thousands of immigrants created by the Russian revolution, the political refugees after Franco’s victory in the Spanish Civil War, the persecution of the Germans from Eastern Europe at the end of the Second World War, and the millions who were exchanged, without any kind of diplomatic agreement, between India and Pakistan after their borders were drawn in 1947.”

    Without ignoring history, Iliou’s aim is to introduce a new perspective: the human element. Her film recounts the ethnic cleansing and violent expulsions of ethnic Greeks from Asia Minor and Muslims from Greece, as told not only by historians but also the refugees themselves. The probing interviews reveal the painful similarities of the experience, their testimonies coming to life with the aid of some remarkable archival films and photographs, as well as music of Nick Platyrachos that was inspired by the era.

    The film itself was the realization of a promise Iliou made to her stepfather Takis, revealed the director, a Greek from Asia Minor, on opening night: “For years now I have been unable to forget this image: A quiet garden and my stepfather, Takis… telling me that at the age of 7 he suddenly saw his own father, an eminent Greek from the Pontus, dead, hanging from a tree in the courtyard of the command post in Kerasounta… My promise to Takis when I left Greece to study cinema in Italy was that one day I would make a film about the expulsion.” Iliou remembered that, “for many years, only the Asia Minor Catastrophe and the pain of the expulsion of our people existed for my family.”

    It is a feeling shared by Meni Atsikbasi, a daughter of Greek Orthodox refugees from Turkey who was interviewed for the documentary. Atsikbasi grew up in a village on Lesvos inhabited exclusively by refugees: “I met many refugees and saw how their souls wept. And they always smiled wanly when they spoke of Asia Minor, their homeland, their houses, their lives there... This conversation took place every day. They'd finish work and then start talking about their homeland, what they did there, what it was like… And I can honestly say that from what they told me, I am familiar with every square inch of their homes... where the gardens lay... the pomegranate trees, the jasmine bushes where the bakery was located... everything about their life as though I was there.”

    Husnu Karaman has a similar story to tell. His Muslim family left Crete for Turkey, but in their new home in Cesme, the conversation was always about Crete: “No evening went by without Crete. It was always Crete. What did Crete mean to my family? It was their homeland. My father always said they lived there 300 years... We sprouted roots there. We grew up there. But we were uprooted. Nothing you tell a refugee is of any value; all he seeks is his homeland.”
    ....

  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #136 - June 22, 2015, 02:46 PM

    Ahh, these are so sad.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #137 - June 22, 2015, 04:12 PM

    Once you scratch beneath the surface you find Greece is haunted by this past. In Athens districts outside the centre like Nea Smyrni (New Smyrna) began as refugee settlements. Many of the older people when I lived there were born in Asia Minor and arrived as refugees. The rebetika music that's seen as typically Greek is the music they brought with them. The Athens football team AEK - Athlitiki Enosis Konstantinoupoleos - is named after Constantinople, not Athens. The same goes for PAOK from Thessaloniki.

    Here's a 1920s newsreel on the destruction of Smyrna and the plight of refugees in Athens:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t2B84CyLblk
    Documentary maker Maria Iliou refers to the footage of Smyrna in this interview:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk1skpOoFpc
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #138 - June 22, 2015, 05:20 PM

    Refugees on the Hungarian border: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/22/migrants-hungary-border-fence-wall-serbia?
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #139 - June 22, 2015, 09:47 PM

    'Troubled waters'
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=VW-Ut5FalzI
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #140 - June 23, 2015, 07:09 PM

    Asteris Masouras - Refugees and volunteers struggle together in Lesvos
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #141 - June 24, 2015, 10:18 AM

    PBS - Already suffering Greece struggles with flood of migrants
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAv7TYu6llU
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #142 - June 24, 2015, 10:34 AM



    Hi Zeca I really feel for Greeks.... If this fucking planet of Apes ... specially educated Muslims and Non-Muslims read  1% of what Greek Philosophers wrote some 1000s of years ago and use 0.1% of it in their lives, The present day humanity would have not walked through the troubles they are going through...


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #143 - June 24, 2015, 02:18 PM

    'Molyvos generosity and hospitality'
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qikMTeH4kUE&feature=youtu.be
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #144 - June 24, 2015, 02:29 PM

    Interviews with Greeks who came as refugees from Anatolia in the 1920s.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsMG59EALg
    That's an extract from the documentary 'Twice a Stranger', full version below but with the subtitles in Greek.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7dhJMFwEpqY
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #145 - June 24, 2015, 02:54 PM

    Interviews with Greeks who came as refugees from Anatolia in the 1920s.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsMG59EALg
    That's an extract from the documentary 'Twice a Stranger', full version below but with the subtitles in Greek.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7dhJMFwEpqY

      http://www.aina.org/releases/20140423134125.htm



    That is what Islam did to Turkish folks .. they turned in to brainless Turkeys and massacred people who were not Muslims  by naming them as   kuffar harbi  or  Infidels at war with Islam,  or enemies of the Turkish state.. etc..etc.... And they did it to Greeks., Assyrian Christians,  Armenians and in recent time to Kurdish folks. In fact the TURKEYS were lucky .. thanks to  Kemal Ataturk  although he  realized bit late ..religion is not the way to rule people..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #146 - June 24, 2015, 04:13 PM

    Yeez - I think it's a mistake to see it as primarily about Islam, or to make any excuses for the actions of Ataturk. These were largely the crimes of secular nationalists, though the Islamic background of the Turkish side clearly did matter. Ataturk came to power after the Armenian and Assyrian genocides, but he can take full responsibility for the ethnic cleansing of the Anatolian Greeks and the burning of Smyrna. The Greek nationalists weren't really any better and their actions simply brought disaster for the minorities on both sides. This kind of ethnic nationalism really took hold with the Greek War of Independence and the ethnic cleansing of the Muslim and Jewish population from the newly independent Greek state. The War of Independence also involved major massacres by the Ottomans but not with any aim of creating a homogeneous Turkish state. It took the best part of a century for a more modern idea of ethnic Turkish nationalism to develop. It isn't all about Islam, and an awful lot of it is about nationalism, Greek as well as Turkish.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #147 - June 24, 2015, 04:32 PM



    The documentary 'Twice a Stranger' was based on Bruce Clark's book. This is really the best starting point for reading about the exchange of populations.

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kVZ3sLBEPEcC&pg=PA21&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

    From the reviews on Amazon:
    Quote
    This is the best book I have read on the tragic Greek-Turkish "population exchange" of the 1920s. I found the book remarkable for several reasons: One is its organization. Chapters alternate between diplomatic history and human suffering stories, many of them based on interviews with survivors of that era. This has a powerful effect on the reader who sees how people were dying while "diplomats talked." Another is its fairness in discussing the responsibilities of each side. (The official Greek and Turkish positions place all the blame on the other side.) And finally the coverage of the suffering of the Muslims that were sent from Greece to Turkey as part of the "exchange." As the books states on p. 161 "In most cases, the fate of these migrants was not as terrible as that of the Anatolian Christians who fled either in the heat of war, or as a result of forced marches followed by forced embarkations on ships riddled with disease; but the Muslim exodus was bad enough."

    I have a special interest in the history of the region because both of my parents were born in Turkey and their families ended up in Greece as part of the exchange. My mother's family had to flee with a few hours notice following the retreating Greek army so they would not be slaughtered by Turkish irregulars. My father's family were Cappadocian Turkish speaking Christians. While their departure was more orderly they found themselves strangers in their new country. About 10 years or so ago I met a young Turkish college student who had a summer job in a hotel. He spoke some Greek and I asked him how he learned it. He told me his grandparents were Greek speaking Muslims from Crete and he described the difficulties they had in adjusting in Turkey, a story that mirrored exactly that of my father's family. I also realized that his grandparents must have had fond memories of Greece to teach their grandson the language. For what it is worth, what Clark describes seems to fit exactly my personal experience and my family's oral history.
    ....

    Quote
    My maternal grandparents were Orthodox Christians from Cappadocia. As a child I was told I was Greek; they were Greek, yet they spoke mostly Turkish. I noticed the other Greeks I met in the community were different than my grandparents. When I got to high school, after having lived in Greece for a year, I began asking questions of my grandmother, who told me many details of their Christian lives in a small town outside of Kayseri,then of the march out of Cappadocia, the ship to Greece that ran out of food as they had nowhere to put the refugees, finally debarking and being housed on the floor of a church until the parishioners got angry. She told me they were lucky; her father got a job as a teacher in orphange, as he was educated, a teacher certified by the patriarchate and so ended up on Evia at an American run orphanage. My grandfather and great uncle had escaped with false visas more than ten years earlier. I never fully understood why, based on my reading, the accounts of my grandfather and his brother having to escape at age 14. Now I do. Now I understand why the accounts that I've read from different regions of Anatolia are so different. I appreciated the author's methodology to get to every ethnic and regional group, and all the political parties that put their two cents in and influenced all these people who didn't want to go anywhere.

    I have read all the history books and personal accounts I could find but all were clearly heavily biased and didn't reflect all of my grandparents' accounts. My grandparents never spoke ill of the Turkish people, only the Turkish soldiers. I wondered why my grandmother constantly referenced clothing, music, food, or anything to being Turkish-like. I wondered how they came to be called Greeks when my grandfather's written family history shows them having lived in the same valley for at least three hundred years. His ancestors were Persian; my grandmother's were from one of the -stahn countries, southeast of the Caspian Sea. Their family photos looked Mongolian, not Greek.

    I once asked my grandmother how she could leave her home, her parents and siblings in Greece to marry a man she'd never met in the United States. (She never saw her parents again and didn't see her siblings for forty five years.)Her answers were forever etched in my mind.

    First: She didn't like the Greek "boys" and where they were living wasn't "home." The man she was to marry was from her own village, and although she didn't know him other than to have seen him at church he was their kind.

    Second was a lesson for my own marriage and a theme discussed in the book when refugee Christians moved into Muslim homes and shared their homes until the Muslims were deported. "Any two people can live together forever and be happy, if they both work at it." It seems that any two peoples can live together forever and be happy, if there are no politicians involved.

    To bear out the last point I remember walking in the Ihlara valley in Cappadocia in the late 80s and coming across a couple of old women dressed in black and talking in Greek, the typical Greek grandmothers really. It turned out they were sisters who lived in Piraeus, but this was their home village. Their family had been expelled in the population exchange when they were small children. At some point they had decided to visit, made friends with the villagers who now lived there, themselves the descendants of Muslim refugees from Bulgaria, and since then had returned for a couple of weeks every summer as their guests. As Cappadocians their first language as children would have been Turkish rather than Greek so communication wouldn't have been a problem.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #148 - June 24, 2015, 05:37 PM

    Yeez - I think it's a mistake to see it as primarily about Islam, or to make any excuses for the actions of Ataturk. These were largely the crimes of secular nationalists, though the Islamic background of the Turkish side clearly did matter. Ataturk came to power after the Armenian and Assyrian genocides, but he can take full responsibility for the ethnic cleansing of the Anatolian Greeks and the burning of Smyrna. The Greek nationalists weren't really any better and their actions simply brought disaster for the minorities on both sides. This kind of ethnic nationalism really took hold with the Greek War of Independence and the ethnic cleansing of the Muslim and Jewish population from the newly independent Greek state. The War of Independence also involved major massacres by the Ottomans but not with any aim of creating a homogeneous Turkish state. It took the best part of a century for a more modern idea of ethnic Turkish nationalism to develop. It isn't all about Islam, and an awful lot of it is about nationalism, Greek as well as Turkish.

    I despise nationalism., I hate nationalism that is not in league  humanism.,  I agree with those highlighted words  but  Nationalism laced with religious politics creates worst possible genocides. And  I can not excuse Ottoman empire  that is ruled Turkey since 1300 to all the way to 1923 by these Turkish Islamic kings with the support Islamic religious mullahs  to put all non-Muslims in to 2nd rated citizens and rule the people with those stupid Sharia laws,,

    The problem becomes even basic when many of these guys who ruled  Turkey in recent past don't even agree that Genocide took place under the watchful eyes Turkish rulers..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #149 - June 24, 2015, 06:50 PM

    https://mobile.twitter.com/teacherdude
    Quote from: @teacherdude
    Can anyone explain to me why this person inspires such fear in European countries such as UK, Holland or Denmark?  https://flic.kr/p/ubjKr3

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