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Theme Changer

 Topic: Greek island refugee crisis

 (Read 122341 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 6 7 89 10 ... 33 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #210 - July 13, 2015, 08:14 PM

    Absolutely brilliant verdict. And sadly true...
    “If Tsipras was wearing the crown of King Pyrrhus this time last week, Merkel is wearing it now. Her ultimatum the beginning of the end of the EU,” he said. Exactly.

    Marianna Mazzucato article points the finger on a big problem that have surfaced many years ago, but it is more and more visible day by day. There is no long a secret that German industry have completely overwhelmed the French and Italian ones, helped by the common currency and non-inflation policies of Angela Merkel governments. And that will bite us big in the long term.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #211 - July 13, 2015, 09:50 PM

    So glad the UK is not in the Euro and is going to have an EU membership referendum.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #212 - July 13, 2015, 11:09 PM

    ^I wonder how much effect the Greek debacle will have on the referendum here.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #213 - July 14, 2015, 12:08 AM

    Turning no into yes: Syriza's memorandum

    Tsipras’ next battle: Government majority and rebels in his own party

    Varoufakis - On the Euro Summit’s statement on Greece: First thoughts
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=MrVl1kj-UlI
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #214 - July 14, 2015, 11:24 PM

    Syriza in crisis....

    Interview with Stathis Kouvelakis of Syriza's Left Platform
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #215 - July 15, 2015, 09:27 AM

    Paul Mason summarises the Greek political situation right now. I think the swing towards opposition to the euro might come sooner than he suggests.

    Decoding the IMF: Greek deal doomed, exit likely
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zJtG_fE-TYw&list=PLXjqQf1xYLQ47IJ7OIRD2uP7cbhhjBU7B&index=1
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #216 - July 15, 2015, 10:03 AM

    Paul Mason ............................

    Decoding the IMF: Greek deal doomed, exit likely

    Thanks to  internet and thanks to people like Paul Mason and his web blogs .,readers learn  how  International  Mother Fuckers(IMF) control poor folks around the globe.... and how rich buggers move the money around the globe by evading local taxes And how local politicians become useless fools and puppets to big businesses through money transfers....


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #217 - July 15, 2015, 03:57 PM

    ^And a case in point:

    The Euro-Summit ‘Agreement’ on Greece – annotated by Yanis Varoufakis
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #218 - July 17, 2015, 12:38 PM

    I listened to some BBC station thing on my mother's satellite radio yesterday about what's going on in Greece, and I still haven't much of an idea. It was sad to hear how angry and disillusioned the people they interviewed were, though.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #219 - July 17, 2015, 05:22 PM

    [/u]nternational  Mother Fuckers(IMF) control poor folks around the globe.... and how rich buggers move the money around the globe by evading local taxes And how local politicians become useless fools and puppets to big businesses through money transfers....


    This.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #220 - July 17, 2015, 06:13 PM

    Costas Lapavitsas calling for exit from the euro - the minority position in Syriza
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8vTTUcaYEWs
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #221 - July 17, 2015, 06:23 PM

    I listened to some BBC station thing on my mother's satellite radio yesterday about what's going on in Greece, and I still haven't much of an idea. It was sad to hear how angry and disillusioned the people they interviewed were, though.

    I'm not sure listening to the BBC will help much with understanding what's going on. I've found their coverage shockingly ill-informed - though if it's the World Service you're listening to it may be better than their TV coverage.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #222 - July 17, 2015, 06:54 PM

    Meanwhile the refugee crisis goes on. Sadly six Syrian refugees died on Wednesday trying to make the crossing from Ayvalik to Lesvos.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v44O-yBw1WE&feature=youtu.be
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eH1k5ysdsPg&feature=youtu.be
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #223 - July 18, 2015, 12:35 PM

    Interview with Costas Lapavitsas

    Twitter discussion on Grexit with Frances Coppola and Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #224 - July 18, 2015, 08:58 PM

    Report from Lesvos and Izmir for the Greek daily Kathimerini - one of the better articles I've seen about the refugees.

    http://www.ekathimerini.com/199285/interactive/ekathimerini/special-report/migrant-traffickers-make-izmir-a-launch-pad-to-europe
    Quote
    ....
    “They reach me by phone, through word of mouth,” says the 25-year-old. “The service we offer is the most expensive in the market. We provide a 9-meter Italian boat with a Japanese engine and the best life vests. We get 40 people on board and the island is a 20-minute ride away. For $1,000 we’ll get you there.”

    This was the same fee that 32-year-old Syrian refugee Mouna Ibrahim was told she’d have to pay. She’s been in Izmir for the past six months with her husband and their children, aged 5, 6 and 7. They share a two-bed room in a cheap hotel in Basmane, paying 15 lira (5 euros) a night per person.

    The entire hotel is full of migrants and refugees. Like most in the area, it only offers shared bathrooms and is filthy, with the owners trying to cram in as many bodies as possible, even on the roof. Some hotels have been charging as much as 20 lira per person since demand spiked.

    Ibrahim has never lived in Greece yet she speaks the language, with a Cretan accent.

    “I’m afraid for my boys, of the sea,” she says using the typical Cretan word for boys, “kopelia.”

    Her great-grandmother was born on Crete and left the island in the late 19th century together with other Muslims who settled in Syria.

    “We took just a small bundle of clothes,” says Ibrahim, showing how they wrap their money in rolls and seal it with tape so it doesn’t get wet at sea.

    Their days in Izmir are monotonous, spent in the sweltering hotel room or sitting in the lobby. They are waiting, just like all the other refugees in the area, to be contacted by the smuggler so they can finally get in the van that will take them on a nighttime ride to Dikili or Cesme, where they will board a boat to Greece.

    Ibrahim’s cousin will also be traveling with them. He’s 32 and introduces himself as Stefanos, the Greek name by which he was known when he lived on Crete from 2005 to 2011. He moved back to Syria just before the war broke out there. While most refugees want to make it to Western Europe, Stefanos would like to return to Crete.

    “It’s my favorite country,” he says in perfect Greek. “I don’t want to die but there’s no other way to get there.”

    Stefanos tracked down the trafficker in Izmir with an introduction from other relatives who had already made the journey. It was also from Izmir that he had made his first crossing to Greece in 2005, paying $3,500 at the time.

    The night we met him was the night he was supposed to leave. He was frightened. “They say there’ll be just 15 to 35 people on the boat, with children and women. But there may be as many as 45 or 50 when we get there. They don’t care if we live or die. They just want their money,” he says of the smugglers.

    He keeps looking at his cell phone. Around midnight he gets a message from the trafficker saying that the trip has been canceled because another boat has sunk and several migrants have drowned. Back in his cousin’s room the children play with their bright orange and red life vests. None of them can swim.
    ....

  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #225 - July 20, 2015, 10:37 AM

    Paul Krugman: "I may have overestimated the competence of the Greek government"
    Quote
    Krugman on assuming that Greece had an exit plan from the Euro: “…it didn’t even occur to me that they would be prepared to make a stand without having done any contingency planning ...amazingly - they thought they could simply demand better terms without having any backup plan. So certainly this is a shock. But, you know, in some sense, it’s hopeless in any case. …it’s not as if the terms that they were being offered before were feasible. I mean, the new terms are even worse, but the terms they were being offered before were still not going to work. So I, you know, I may have overestimated the competence of the Greek government.”

  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #226 - July 20, 2015, 12:24 PM

    The fact that Tsipras and Varoufakis are irresponsible was clear from the beginning. And it is not only because they are extreme left, which in my opinion is itself a bad thing... They sold illusions since the beginning...
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #227 - July 20, 2015, 02:26 PM

    Some analysis here: http://www.flassbeck-economics.de/syrizas-migration-into-the-transfigured-night/

    Tsipras and Varoufakis aren't extreme left. Part of the problem seems to have been the illusions about the EU and the euro held by the more moderate wing of Syriza, which really reflects wider attitudes in Greek society. It seems they didn't go into negotiations with with any real plan B, either for issuing a parallel currency or exiting the euro. To be fair to Varoufakis this isn't the way he wanted to play it. My thoughts are much the same as Krugman's; "...it didn’t even occur to me that they would be prepared to make a stand without having done any contingency planning..." It's really the left social democrats in Syriza who were in charge of this, not the far left.

    Tariq Ali's view: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n15/tariq-ali/diary - I think there's a lot of sense in this but see this comment: "Can't quite believe Tariq Ali's claim that Schauble made Greece an amicable, generous offer that was bizarrely refused."
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #228 - July 20, 2015, 07:05 PM

    They are both radical left now, although they are former communists.

    Syriza is not the kind of party to make reforms that are so necessary to Greece. The problem is that neither the others made those reforms so it's a failure of the all political class.

    Syriza was bluffing till the very end, and it proved to be the bad idea. If they would have come with a good reforms package and demanded debt restructuring and Germany would have said NO, the all fault would have been on Angela Merkel government.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #229 - July 20, 2015, 08:26 PM

    IrateGreek on Lapavitsas, who I suppose does qualify as far left: https://mobile.twitter.com/delta_vee/status/622885806370390016

    From an interview with Varoufakis in 2012, before he linked up with Syriza. I think this was and is a fundamentally accurate assessment.
    Quote
    I would caution anyone who reads too much into the titles of parties like the Radical Left [i.e. Syriza]. The Radical Left Party is not that radical. If anything, it is, more or less, where the socialist party [i.e. Pasok] used to be 10 years ago. So it’s a centre-left party in reality, with some radical elements that are, more or less, marginalised within it.

    (From here)
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #230 - July 20, 2015, 08:45 PM



    I'm not even sure how such overestimation is conceptually possible.  How would one even begin to overestimate the competence of the Greek government?  From what perspective would one start?  Krugman is breaking new ground.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #231 - July 20, 2015, 09:00 PM

    ^The absence of a plan B surprised me and also seemed to surprise a lot of people in Greece.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #232 - July 20, 2015, 11:38 PM

    CNN interview with Varoufakis: http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/20/intv-greece-amanpour-yanis-varoufakis.cnn/video/playlists/amanpour/

    Varoufakis: Why I voted no: http://www.thepressproject.gr/details_en.php?aid=79355
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #233 - July 21, 2015, 09:33 PM

    What happened to plan B?

    James K. Galbraith: Syriza was in a lose-lose situation
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #234 - July 22, 2015, 05:31 PM

    This report more or less confirms what I suspected about the attitude of NGOs to the Greek refugee crisis, and their reluctance to get involved in a country within the EU.

    Why are NGOs so reluctant to help Greece?
    Quote
    ....
    Kempson’s anger at these organizations is palpable, but it would be easier to understand the UNHCR’s actions if its numerous reports, appeals and press conferences had had a positive impact on the support being offered to Lesvos.

    Some international NGOs do have a presence on the island: MSF recently offered a bus to ferry vulnerable refugees down to Mytilene (close to the refugee centre) and Amnesty International has released a report on the crisis which urged the European Union (EU) to rethink its current refugee relocation strategy.

    These exceptions notwithstanding, international NGOs appear to have followed UNHCR’s example and taken on the role of passive observers.

    Of 12 international refugee NGOs I contacted for this article, only 8 responded: 4 issued blanket denials of responsibility and 3 stated, off the record, that they weren’t interested in helping Greece.

    Oxfam alone agreed to be quoted, saying that ‘while we understand that many in Greece are in difficulty, the sort of financial support these people need is not within Oxfam’s remit. Therefore we do not currently have plans to operate in Greece.’ The ‘financial support’ mentioned here is currently being offered in Italy by Oxfam Italia.

    Over 60% of the refugees on Lesvos come from Syria: a country embroiled in a civil war that has displaced over 7.6 million people, according to the United Nations.

    Many NGOs have, understandably, concentrated their efforts on Syria, with further work being done in other source countries such as Iraq and Somalia. However, since the start of the Syrian civil war in 2011, refugees have been migrating through Turkey towards Greece, and with the temporary axing of Italy’s Mediterranean search and rescue programme, the plunging Greek economy and the Syrian war entering its fifth year, it is unsurprising that the crisis has got worse.

    Rather than adapt to this rapidly evolving crisis, the NGOs prefer to lay responsibility at the EU’s door: ‘The EU continues to bear collective responsibility for the welfare of migrants seeking entry and asylum in the EU via Greece,’ says Oxfam. ‘The EU must show solidarity for all people left more vulnerable by the Greek crisis, both Greek citizens in need of assistance and the migrants pushed to their borders by conflict, rights abuses and inequality.’

    This seems to be the prevailing attitude. It is a form of bureaucratic buck-passing that does not account for the fact that the EU has failed to support the refugees of Lesvos and was recently called on by the UN to do more. Holding back and waiting for government intervention seems counterintuitive for a set of organizations that are, in theory, non-partisan. Still, despite this escalation of need in European countries bordering the Mediterranean, NGOs are still happy to use Greece’s EU membership as a reason to avoid offering aid.

    Greece’s geography may be working against the citizens of Lesvos as well, but it is also acting as a screen for the difficulty many NGOs have when it comes to categorizing Greece.

    ‘Due to donor pressure they [NGOs] are increasingly forced to respond with a discrete project with x number of deliverable outcomes. They reach out to us, too, in this way – “your $50 will buy mosquito nets for a family of four”,’ writes Dinyar Godrej on NGOs’ antics.

    NGOs working in Greece could quantify the help they offer, but the fact remains that for many potential donors, Greece is not a country in need. The general view appears to be that yes, refugees are living in tents, with limited medical assistance, reliant on Greek citizens for food, but at least they’re not in Syria any more.

    This thinking is flawed and ignores issues around human trafficking, hygiene, post-traumatic stress and various other risk factors.

    For now, it appears that the people of Lesvos are on their own. The island’s geography has made it a prime destination for refugees crossing the Mediterranean and Greece’s membership of the EU allows international NGOs to justify withholding aid.

    Residents are left in the precarious position of attempting to support thousands of refugees while maintaining the island’s struggling infrastructure. Meanwhile, international observers are left wondering: how bad do conditions in Lesvos need to be before refugee aid agencies stop hiding behind the EU and start rolling up their sleeves?
    ....

  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #235 - July 23, 2015, 10:54 AM

    Camp Kara Tepe 20th July
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=jwMb9K6FwFM
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #236 - July 23, 2015, 07:58 PM

    Lesvos: Playing hide and seek with NGOs
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #237 - July 25, 2015, 11:57 AM

    I'm not sure listening to the BBC will help much with understanding what's going on. I've found their coverage shockingly ill-informed - though if it's the World Service you're listening to it may be better than their TV coverage.


    I can't remember if it was or not...anything off the very top of your head that might be a better place to look for a summary? Don't trouble yourself if not, I might have to get my sister to spoonfeed me the story either way.  Embarrassed
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #238 - July 25, 2015, 12:28 PM

    I could have been overreacting to some of the BBC TV news coverage there. The radio programme you listened to would most likely have been from the world service and probably more useful than the TV news.

    Paul Mason's reports for Channel 4, and on his blog, have been far better than the BBC. He's much better informed about the politics, economics and people involved. He doesn't speak Greek though and at times he's probably been carried away a bit by his sympathies for Syriza.

    There are Greeks on Twitter giving some useful commentary in English. IrateGreek is one of the better ones.

    I can't think of a good summary of it all off-hand but I'm sure there must be something.
  • Greek island refugee crisis
     Reply #239 - July 25, 2015, 05:01 PM

    ^I'm not any kind of expert on economics but this seems like a fair summary of the wider issues around the euro:

    http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/eurozone-failed-experiment-by-kevin-o-rourke-2015-07
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