My point wasn't to say no work as to be done to fight misogyny where ever it is, but how he CLEARLY LIED that "look at how these muslim majority countries treat women worse then these non-muslim majority countries" purely to denigrate and demonise muslims when the survey wasn't even looking at ANY non-muslim majority countries.
I wasn't trying to say that you were clueless about these issues. The point I was trying to make is that they are legitimate complaints, and not everyone goes about it in an ideal manner. If you have further examples of how absolutely terrible he is, I might look at this incident in a different light. But that alone isn't proof of anything. I've seen the best among us make generalizations or go a little too far when trying to address something that needs to be addressed.
Also Lua , is it only muslim countries where works needs to be done? Let's look at the UK
Well, I didn't think I was giving off the impression that I thought otherwise, but since you asked, I'll tell you what I tell Islamic apologists who try to say how, in the end, Saudi Arabia is a better place for women than the United States because of face value rape statistics: the gigantic difference between many of these locations and a place like the UK is whether or not there are legal protections in place that are actually reasonably available for the women to utilize when they do become victims or are in danger of becoming victims. The availability and completeness of these legal protections to women in any country is the critical issue to this conversation.
Guess what? your goldenboy Maajid Nawaz said (along the lines of) that he's only interested in the treatment of women in a muslim context, which just shows he's not really interested in eradicating the mistreatment of women everywhere
No it doesn't. Especially if it's “along the lines of.” I'm not saying that this couldn't be the case with Nawaz, but I'm saying that the proof and evidence you're giving me is not compelling at all. If I say that I'm interested and concerned and my primary line of work is working with women in the inner city and I don't want to get into talking about domestic violence rates in the suburbs, that doesn't mean that I don't give a fuck about those other women. It means that I'm here to do a job and focus on one thing right now, and I especially am likely to say something like that if people keep bringing up women in other locations to try to distract from my point or bring up their own agenda.
So, again, not saying it's impossible, nor saying that he's my goldenboy? Like I said, don't really follow the guy at all. But what you're showing me isn't sufficient to make those claims.
To equivocate dark humour with the dehumanising of a minority social group in the UK as Maajid does is an an absurd comparison.
Well, guess you missed the point. It's okay, we'll work it out. For one thing, there's an awful lot of dark humor in that board, that's not at all the issue. You were just posting cartoons that he and I both found spectacularly tasteless and, yes, the precise kind of thing that I'd expect to see on anti-Muslim sites. I know that's not your angle, but that's what happened. And the mod team even had to remove one of your pictures because it was way over the top.
But my point is that not everyone is going to be perfect in the public eye all the time. I certainly wouldn't want to send you out as our best foot forward to represent ex-Muslims, I do think you ride the line at times, and I'm sure you feel the same for me. When we think someone's doing something, saying something, supporting something that we think might ultimately be detrimental to how we are perceived, we ought to have that discussion and say what we think we could be doing better. HM and I had no problem saying that to you, or to anyone, and if you think Nawaz isn't a good fit for this, it's good that you speak up, too. My problem with you is you giving me these weak examples and then just nailing him with these extreme accusations. If you could show me that he deserves it, we'd be cool and I would think you did a good thing here.
If you were put in the public eye and you were under scrutiny, you can bet your sweet ass that many ex-Muslims wouldn't think you're cut out for it, either, and would make similar accusations, and the same goes for me. So what we have to do is try to chill the fuck out and talk about this like adults: productively, with examples, and constructive criticism.
I never said that just because he writes for the Daily Mail he's a hate preacher, I don't appreciate being strawmanned.
Oh man. Strawmanned is a little much, don't you think? But my bad, it was the daily mail examples in combination with the facebook one. To quote you directly: “This one examples shows CLEARLY that he wants to denigrate and villify muslims and tell everyone how awful they all are...This is just one example. Maajid Nawaz has also written for the anti-muslim rag the Daily Mail. There you go, 2 examples”
So let me just say that I don't think
those “2 examples” are enough to call him a hate preacher. We good now?
The Daily Mail is he most notorious muslimophobic, racist, xenophobic, far-right media outlet in the UK and what does CEMB do?
Yes, and that's good and well, but again, we need to see what he says in the Daily Mail, not just that he writes for it. You could be published by a Fox outlet or appear as a regular on one of their network programs, but that doesn't make you a representative or agent of everything you could charge the company with as a whole. Specifics, my man. We need specific articles where he actually preached hate or whatever it is that he did wrong.
I've tried to engage with Maajid Nawaz, but as anyone know bigotry and hatred pays very well so he is completely intransigent.
How did you go about that, though? No offense--really, no offense intended--but I know from experience that it's rough to try to have a conversation in a civil tone with you sometimes. I might give you a pass myself, depending on how you went about trying to engage with me. And anyway, I was talking about the conversation you and I are having right now. You came here to prove a point and voice a concern, and you have an audience now, so let's do it right.
Topic: Split from Upcoming CEMB Official Events