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 Topic: Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves

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  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #180 - August 10, 2015, 12:40 PM
    Quote
    What I am asking for is an experiment to show that dust/rocks clump together to go onto form bigger and bigger masses.


    and how many seconds have you spent looking for such a thing?

    http://congrexprojects.com/docs/11m24_docs/04apr_0900_blum.pdf?sfvrsn=2
    http://www.ita.uni-heidelberg.de/research/klessen/internal/pp5/sec8-3.pdf
    http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2013DPS....4541508W
    http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~bottke/Reprints/Richardson-etal_2002_AstIII_Rubble-Pile.pdf
    http://helium.crpg.cnrs-nancy.fr/METSOC/workshop/abstracts_workshop/Teiser.pdf
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #181 - August 10, 2015, 03:58 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 10, 2015, 12:27 PM
    Lol.

    2 reasons why I joined. 1 is that I was surprised to find so many supposedly intellectual ex-muslims (yeezevee excluded). The other is that I wanted to have my beliefs challenged robustly.


    You Too... Ted I thought you are different ., well whole world is excluding me.... Cry Cry   hell with you guys..

    So Ted.,   but what say about my maaan  beating woman?? his wife/wives??

    fucking peace of shit....,   and this SON OF A BABOON  allah/god has no  power  to help such women folks in this fucking world..    

    Ted.. throw that useless allah/god shit out of your brain  in to trash.... put it in toilet flush it down...  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #182 - August 10, 2015, 04:00 PM
    Mock him and move on Yeez  far away hug
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #183 - August 10, 2015, 04:11 PM
    Quote from: INcePtion on August 10, 2015, 04:00 PM
    Mock him and move on Yeez  far away hug


    Nooooooo......INcePtion no.,  

     frankly speaking Ted is a nice guy., "CallMeTed" is just playing devil for the sake of forum readers... ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #184 - August 10, 2015, 04:22 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on August 10, 2015, 12:40 PM
    and how many seconds have you spent looking for such a thing?

    http://congrexprojects.com/docs/11m24_docs/04apr_0900_blum.pdf?sfvrsn=2
    http://www.ita.uni-heidelberg.de/research/klessen/internal/pp5/sec8-3.pdf
    http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2013DPS....4541508W
    http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~bottke/Reprints/Richardson-etal_2002_AstIII_Rubble-Pile.pdf
    http://helium.crpg.cnrs-nancy.fr/METSOC/workshop/abstracts_workshop/Teiser.pdf


    Thanks for the links. I'm not sure how much of them you read and understand but the following article sums up the current research and understanding nicely for a lay person like myself.

    https://ay201b.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/formation-of-planetesimals/ - Section "The first half of the story: from dust to planetesimals"

    The key paragraphs are:

    "But what about the first chapters: how do we even get planetesimals in the first place?  How do tiny dust particles build up to create compact solids a kilometer in diameter?  This is one of the major questions remaining in planet formation research and although much progress has been made, the first half of the book as yet to be written."

    and

    "Growth of planetesimals gets increasingly difficult as sizes approach a meter because binding energies decline while relative velocities increase.  According to Chambers (2010), with turbulence disruptive collisions between a meter-sized and a much smaller planetesimal are frequent because relative speeds of 100 m/s are often reached and it is difficult to get larger bodies.  Youdin (2008) also discusses other issues (both theoretical and observation) with growing large bodies via collisions.  Since we need kilometer-sized planetesimals to proceed with the second half of our story, we have a problem which is usually called the “meter-size barrier” in the literature."

    To summarise, dust does not naturally collect and form a larger and larger mass.

    Any objections?
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #185 - August 10, 2015, 04:46 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 10, 2015, 04:22 PM


    Any objections?

    Absolutely NO OBJECTIONS for that ., we can always discuss ..debate.. do experiments .  redesign experiments , change concepts of Physics/chemistry/biology/geology/formation of asteroids/planets/stars and what not ..

    but..but.,     WHAT IS THAT ALL TO DO WITH STUPID BOOKS OF THESE CAVE DWELLERS LIVED SOME 1000s of year ago and in 21st century intelligents folks like you call those silly verses as word of allah/god whatever??

    From Grains to Planetesimals_Andrew Youdin  lecture
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #186 - August 10, 2015, 04:51 PM
    yes many objections. Firstly to your use of the word 'naturally' since i still have no idea what you mean by it, and secondly to the fact that your article tells us that planetesimals grow due to their gravitational fields attracting other nearby objects.

    If the scientific understanding of grow of smaller objects is not so well established, that doesn't require us to conclude that such a thing "does not" happen. Especially when your article presents three ways in which it can.




  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #187 - August 10, 2015, 04:53 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 10, 2015, 04:11 PM
    Nooooooo......INcePtion no.,  

     frankly speaking Ted is a nice guy., "CallMeTed" is just playing devil for the sake of forum readers... ..

    I'm inclined to agree.

    He is certainly happier when discussing philosophical questions that even the greatest minds puzzle over.  When dealing with specifics in Islam andi the Qur'an, his heart doesn't seem fully behind what his fingers are typing.
    Hi
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #188 - August 10, 2015, 04:54 PM
    I don't think you read the article correctly. The article confirms that with our current understanding and observations dust does not clump together to form a bigger and bigger mass.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #189 - August 10, 2015, 04:59 PM
    Quote from: musivore on August 10, 2015, 04:53 PM
    I'm inclined to agree.

    He is certainly happier when discussing philosophical questions that even the greatest minds puzzle over.  When dealing with specifics in Islam and  the Qur'an, his heart doesn't seem fully behind what his fingers are typing.

    you think so? well that is a possibility musivore.,   There are people like that so they use that Red Herring fallacy  We all know that.,    may be.,  our Ted may not know about such fallacies..  well let me help him a bit

    Quote
    "A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

    Topic A is under discussion.
    Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
    Topic A is abandoned.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #190 - August 10, 2015, 05:03 PM
    Quote
    Current lines of research seem to support gravitational instability with particle concentration by turbulence as the method for making kilometer-sized planetesimals.


    when i read that, I don't interpret it as saying "dust does not clump together to form a bigger and bigger mass"
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #191 - August 10, 2015, 05:12 PM
    Please read this:

    http://astrobites.org/2015/04/03/what-is-the-meter-size-barrier/
    http://www.mpia.de/homes/dullemon/group/overview.php
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #192 - August 10, 2015, 05:16 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 10, 2015, 05:12 PM
    Please read this:

    Nah... no reading.. this song is better.. it is a old song..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sH0uR2u7Hs

    Quote
    We are stardust, we are golden,
    We are billion year old carbon,
    And we got to get ourselves back to the garden.
    ........................
    We are stardust, we are golden,
    We are caught in the devils bargain,
    And we got to get ourselves back to the garden.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #193 - August 10, 2015, 05:18 PM
    there is a question about (and many proposed solutions for) how dust which has agglomerated to a meter in size can grow larger to the point where its gravitational field is large enough to attract other objects.

    Therefore, dust does not agglomerate at all?

    Are you accepting that past this 'meter size barrier' planetesimals do in fact grow by accretion? Your only objection is about smaller objects?
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #194 - August 10, 2015, 05:24 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 10, 2015, 05:16 PM
    Nah... no reading.. this song is better.. it is a old song..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sH0uR2u7Hs



    sounds better when joni mitchell sings it lol
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #195 - August 10, 2015, 05:36 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on August 10, 2015, 05:18 PM
    ......................
    Therefore, dust does not agglomerate at all?

    Are you accepting that past this 'meter size barrier' planetesimals do in fact grow by accretion? ....................

    dr_sloth.. see how smart Ted is

    Quote
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 09, 2015, 04:19 PM
    13

    I guess you are unfamiliar with the Quran. The Quran says that all the nations that were sent prophets and who did not believe and were destroyed had clear miracles shown to them. The only prophet who did not show miracles was the prophet Mohammed (although the vast majority of Muslims disagree with this).


    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 09, 2015, 09:32 PM
    I appreciate all the questions on the quran but can we focus on the science for now please. Thanks.


     Red Herring from  "Quran to Science in Quran"

    It doesn't matter how many proofs you give it to Ted on formations of planets.. Ted will only accept your posts. after you take that shahada.,  lol....So say this  

    لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله
    lā ʾilāha ʾillā-llāh, muḥammadur rasūlu-llāh

     Cheesy Cheesy
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #196 - August 10, 2015, 05:42 PM
    لا إله
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #197 - August 10, 2015, 05:53 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on August 10, 2015, 05:18 PM
    there is a question about (and many proposed solutions for) how dust which has agglomerated to a meter in size can grow larger to the point where its gravitational field is large enough to attract other objects.

    Therefore, dust does not agglomerate at all?

    Are you accepting that past this 'meter size barrier' planetesimals do in fact grow by accretion? Your only objection is about smaller objects?


    I accept what the science research is showing and that planetesimals can have gravitational when they reach a certain size. However this does not mean that planets/stars were formed from planetesimals which are greater than a certain size it just means that there is strong evidence that it could have happened this way.

    As to how dust forms into rock/bigger mass the science research shows we simply don't know and that it's not possible with the current techniques used so far.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #198 - August 10, 2015, 06:02 PM

    Why is it so difficult for atheists to accept scientific evidence just because a believer uses it?  From what I have seen atheists love to use science when trying to discredit scripture but when science is used to support scripture they either go quiet, refuse to accept it, try to divert the discussion to philosophical arguments? Are you guys scared or something?



    ...well you should be scared.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #199 - August 10, 2015, 06:03 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on August 10, 2015, 05:42 PM
    لا إله

    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 10, 2015, 05:53 PM
    I accept .......................

    see that,    Ted is accepting the folks here... wonderful.. wonderful    now Ted.. you must accept what  dr_sloth is saying above and that is... this..

     ..............لا إله..................لا إله....................لا إله.................لا إله

    you must say four times  ted
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #200 - August 10, 2015, 06:06 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 10, 2015, 06:02 PM
    ..................when science is used to support scripture ................

    .

    No..No...NO. Science does not support scripture Ted.,  

    but....but the fools that follow silly religions use vague words of so-called scriptures  as revelation of scientific principles
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #201 - August 10, 2015, 06:06 PM
    Quote
    As to how dust forms into rock/bigger mass the science research shows we simply don't know


    not knowing is very different from knowing that it does not happen, which was your claim. Not knowing is also very different from having no idea. There are plenty of ideas, even in your own articles.
    But how does any of this even relate to the topic of gravity? Gravity is proposed to be an important force in planet formation when the object is large enough for it to be.
    If you think initial agglomeration of dust cannot happen, but that later gravity assisted accretion can, then you should be arguing that whatever processes that are involved in dust agglomeration are unnatural. Not gravity. We all agree that gravity can do what scientists claim it can do. Here you are - agreeing.

    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 10, 2015, 05:53 PM
    I accept what the science research is showing and that planetesimals can have gravitational when they reach a certain size.

  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #202 - August 10, 2015, 06:15 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on August 10, 2015, 06:06 PM
    not knowing is very different from knowing that it does not happen, which was your claim. Not knowing is also very different from having no idea. There are plenty of ideas, even in your own articles.
    But how does any of this even relate to the topic of gravity? Gravity is proposed to be an important force in planet formation when the object is large enough for it to be.
    If you think initial agglomeration of dust cannot happen, but that later gravity assisted accretion can, then you should be arguing that whatever processes that are involved in dust agglomeration are unnatural. Not gravity. We all agree that gravity can do what scientists claim it can do. Here you are - agreeing.



    The problem is when do you draw the line of not knowing and knowing that it does not happen.

    You're forgetting that gravity is simply a phenomena that seems like a viable explanation for the formation of planets. However until you can do an experiment that you can set off a process where you can put together clumps of mass and observe them get bigger and bigger then it's still unproven. There is the possibility that upto a certain size nothing more happens regardless the size of the mass. It's wrong to assume that asteroids, planets and stars formed by the action of gravity. More experimentation needs to be done.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #203 - August 10, 2015, 06:33 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 10, 2015, 06:06 PM
    No..No...NO. Science does not support scripture Ted.,  

    but....but the fools that follow silly religions use vague words of so-called scriptures  as revelation of scientific principles


    I'm sure deep down you are a kind hearted individual who respects other peoples beliefs regardless of what they believe in. I can see that you want the best for them but unfortunately some people refuse to accept rational arguments no matter what evidence is shown to them. Should we not be kind and patient to them? Do unto others as you would want them to do to you?
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #204 - August 10, 2015, 06:42 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 10, 2015, 06:33 PM
    I'm sure deep down you are a kind hearted individual who respects other peoples beliefs regardless of what they believe in. I can see that you want the best for them but unfortunately some people refuse to accept rational arguments no matter what evidence is shown to them. Should we not be kind and patient to them? Do unto others as you would want them to do to you?

    Ted I do use that golden rule all the  time as far as possible .. THAT IS THE ONLY RULE I HAVE IN MY LIFE.. nothing else.. no god.. no allah and no scriptures .

    I just don't care what any one believes but when  they do these things  http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28316.msg831404#msg831404  in the name of their stupid beliefs. ((that news just came out)) I neither respect them nor their beliefs and they don't need to respect my simple  rule.. The golden rule..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Cy2igqDYw

    well life goes on....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #205 - August 10, 2015, 06:47 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 10, 2015, 06:42 PM
    Ted I do use that golden rule all the  time as far as possible .. THAT IS THE ONLY RULE I HAVE IN MY LIFE.. nothing else.. no god.. no allah and no scriptures .

    I just don't care what any one believes but when  they do these things  http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28316.msg831404#msg831404  in the name of their stupid beliefs. ((that news just came out)) I neither respect them nor their beliefs and they don't need to respect my simple  rule.. The golden rule..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Cy2igqDYw

    well life goes on....


    I agree it's an appalling crime. God does not defending, he clearly says that in the Quran. Many believers are not pleasing God they are pleasing their own desires. It is they who want to kill, mock, fight, feel themselves superior. It is not a command from God. They are simply showing the evil they have in their hearts and their ignorance. They find it difficult to use that strength to go and help the orphans, or fight those believers who are dealing drugs or oppressing others. They can only pick on those who can't defend themselves.

    Justice will be done in the end so there is absolutely nothing to worry about except for do the best you can with this precious life.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #206 - August 10, 2015, 07:12 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 10, 2015, 06:47 PM
    ............. God does not defending, he clearly says that in the Quran. ..................


    well Ted you can live with your own illusions and delusions .. he god.. she god ..whatever ..

      But I am sorry to say that Quran is just book  of its time..  god .  allah  has not revealed anything  in that book   it  is put together by some men of that time for their political/personal  needs..   There is absolutely nothing new in Quran that you don't find in other religious books or so-called scriptures...

    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 10, 2015, 06:47 PM
    I agree it's an appalling crime.  .......... they are pleasing their own desires. It is they who want to kill, mock, fight, feel themselves superior. It is not a command from God. ...

    forget commands..  why create such criminals in the first place...?  can't  this god give some condoms to their parents??   what is the point of having all that super duper power?  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #207 - August 10, 2015, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 10, 2015, 06:33 PM
    unfortunately some people refuse to accept rational arguments no matter what evidence is shown to them.


    I don't know whether this is ironic or hypocritical. Either way, it hurts my brain more than being horribly sick for the last two weeks has.

    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 10, 2015, 06:47 PM
    Justice will be done in the end so there is absolutely nothing to worry about except for do the best you can with this precious life.


    So, sweep problems under the rug in the hopes that someone will fix it eventually, to absolve yourself of the responsibility for helping your fellow man.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #208 - August 10, 2015, 07:21 PM


    This mouse reminds me of ted.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Ringside: Quod Sum Eris vs CallMeTed - Is there scientific evidence that proves
     Reply #209 - August 10, 2015, 08:09 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 10, 2015, 07:12 PM
    well Ted you can live with your own illusions and delusions .. he god.. she god ..whatever ..

      But I am sorry to say that Quran is just book  of its time..  god .  allah  has not revealed anything  in that book   it  is put together by some men of that time for their political/personal  needs..   There is absolutely nothing new in Quran that you don't find in other religious books or so-called scriptures...
    forget commands..  why create such criminals in the first place...?  can't  this god give some condoms to their parents??   what is the point of having all that super duper power?  


    Yes the quran is not a new message as it says so.

    The world has been created so we can find out what we are really like as individuals. What our desires are whether we will do good or evil. We do everything by the power of God nothing belongs to us.  It has all been given to us.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
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